inquisitorshadow Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) I just don't get it. Arsenal was already underpowered relative to its sister skill tree pyro. By early game theory calculations, arsenal's dps is, on balance, even weaker post patch. Further, arsenal has always been an easy target in PvP with jet boost and power barrier providing the ability to stave off the inevitable only breifly vs less flat footed classes/specs unless a team mate comes to your aid very quickly. What is the thinking behind these nerfs? I just...I don't get what goes through developers minds... Edited March 17, 2012 by inquisitorshadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BioxRevan Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I think some noobs don't know how to use disrupt lol. i agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquisitorshadow Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 I think some noobs don't know how to use disrupt lol. i agree with you. Well you're speaking directly to pvp. Most folks know how to disrupt though, trust me. That's why arsenal is only good in pvp when they have the support of teammates or against clueless opponents. Believe me, a melee with disrupts gets in your grill and regardless of jet boost or power barrier BEFORE NERF, you have seconds to live without team support. I'm not crying bout that even tho pyro is great in pvp and pve and...well, at everything (its like that better looking more popular sibling you envy) but its just that we didn't need a nerf onto an already weakish spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEuZZ Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Yeah.. Pretty much feel like we are being "picked on"... We are by far not the dominate class in pvp... I think it's some people who has written post "Bioware PLEASE nerf bounty hunter's they are way op blabla..." and like blizzard they belive them and cave in and destroy the game! I swear if i'm nerfed i'm done with this game! If bioware don't know what's going on in warzones, maybe they should play a merc and enter and see how good they are.. If anything i belive merc's should be buffed, can start with give us an interrupt spell....! Anyway thanks guys for telling the truth. Most just "troll" and say "NO YOU'RE OP trololol"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inquisitorshadow Posted March 17, 2012 Author Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) I'll probably see if pyro is any fun. If not there are plenty of other games on the horizon I suppose, and this patch is getting released a couple weeks before my subscription expires so that should give me a chance to see how I feel about that spec, and move on if, as I suspect, I'm not feeling it. Underpowered or not I've always just liked the "feel" of arsenal. I'm not gonna tolerate being the "b****" of swtor though. Edited March 17, 2012 by inquisitorshadow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuChuTrain Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I don't understand these changes either. Barrage procs more...big whoop.. Really? Make us pay the heat cost up front and be forced to stay in the same spot more. At least with tracer i could cancel if the person was going to LoS or if i thought they were going to try and interrupt..and not pay heat. .... Now we're going to build up MORE heat with less output. Longer channel easier interrupt and pay the heat cost too. We're already vulnerable to classes that can stealth up to us, jump to us, pull us....Now we're going to stand there and die even more.. knockback CD increased too... did they think that we had great survivability? And what did that knockback do anyway? At BEST in huttball it would knock someone down to another level hopefully LoS'd so they can't snap jump back to you, or just run back to you while you cast TM/Unload (and sorcs already have this...with an added stun at the end if talented). The knockback didn't allow us to kite at all...since we have nothing to cast on the run that anyone is scarred about eating while they close the distance.... The could have at least buffed missle blast......with the heat cost you cant spam that.....and it would give us something to cast on the run...oh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoonster Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Bioware caved to the pvp masses and shoulda stuck to their guns. Cuz you know when the game was conceptuallzed it was a "PVE/Story Driven MMO with some PVP in it". Those are their words, not mine. Yet here we are with massive class balances going on, with almost all of it being done for the sake of pvp. It's been said before, but it always has had at least a grain of truth to it, pvp has been ruining mmos since the inception of putting pvp into mmos. It's just a flawed concept when you allow the skills to act the same in each content pve and pvp. You cannot feasibly balance class abilities when you design content that needs 8-16 of those classes using their abilities to defeat "1" npc, a boss, then pit those same classes with those same abilities against one another. Edited March 17, 2012 by Spoonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugig Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Yea...anytime you have a spammable attack that hits regularly for 3-4k plus debuffs and buffs, its gonna get nerfed. I used to be one of the ones that was saying TM wasnt that bad, then I got some gear, in a nice mix of columi and champ gear I regularly see TM hitting harder than HSM, thats just not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNinjaboy Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I think some noobs don't know how to use disrupt lol. i agree with you. .....with this nerf they should have given Arsenal Mercs some resist to interrupt. That would have at least made some sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angryorc Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 1. People see missiles. 2. People see us casting tracer missiles. 3. All missiles coming from a merc is now a tracer missile. 4. They see big numbers and die. 5. OMG! NERF TRACER MISSILES! On a more serious note... Arsenal mercs are in most cases easily countered by random rolling your face over the interrupt key, but I guess having zero to none mobility wasn't enough! I suppose the good sorcs and operatives will surpass us greatly in pvp damage now ^^ Nothing wrong with those classes, one of them is even a purely single target dps class. Suppose it's time to go full pvp gear now as the 2p Rakata setbonus of 15% crit on tracer missiles just lost a bit of it's value according to the first wave of PTS notes. I'm sure they'll start crying about Heatseeker Missiles critting for 5k+ with the 10% buff too now.. those damn missiles!! I'm also lol happy to see that in terms of making mercs a more diversified class to play, not only spamming tracer which ofcourse all of us do 100% of the time, they want us to use Unload more... WHOA!! They increased the skill cap of mercs by several levels now Hopefully there's more to come, but for various reasons... I won't head over to the PTS again as only a handful of people got their level 50's copied and the rest of us have to start from level 1... That's a really good way to test what impact the new changes have on level 50 gameplay, forcing the majority of players to start from level 1! They supposedly swapped Tracer with Fusion gfx, since according to them it's what we wanted! Last time I checked the threads about that we wanted Tracer->Heatseeker Missiles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cegenaus Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Yea...anytime you have a spammable attack that hits regularly for 3-4k plus debuffs and buffs, its gonna get nerfed. I used to be one of the ones that was saying TM wasnt that bad, then I got some gear, in a nice mix of columi and champ gear I regularly see TM hitting harder than HSM, thats just not right. id like to see videos of this please. id never hit for more than 3k and thats in full champ gear against fresh 50s. 2.5k is a normal crit for me and that happens rarely. its more like in the 1.4-2k range. 5 TMs + unload + HSM + RS kills someone with unload + HSM + RS accounting for 50%+ of the rotation damage, i fail to see how TM is too powerful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il-jumper Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 (edited) Sorry TM is not nerfed enough. * Gives back energy on crit * No cooldown * Kinectic Damage * Reduce Armor * 4k damage each one (While wearing BM Gear) Tell me any other skill that does that. Lets not add you prance around with heavy armor, bunch of defensive cooldowns and heals. Edited March 17, 2012 by il-jumper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugig Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 id like to see videos of this please. id never hit for more than 3k and thats in full champ gear against fresh 50s. 2.5k is a normal crit for me and that happens rarely. its more like in the 1.4-2k range. 5 TMs + unload + HSM + RS kills someone with unload + HSM + RS accounting for 50%+ of the rotation damage, i fail to see how TM is too powerful I dont have a free easy to use video capture program, but I can tell you, get the 2 set bonus from columi and you will see it too, my highest TM hit without using relics and adrenals is around 3200, relic + expertise buff I go 4k+, I do still see 1k-1.5k hits on geared players and 700-800 hits on guarded geared players, but average I do see as big and bigger hits from TM than I do HSM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cegenaus Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Sorry TM is not nerfed enough. * Gives back energy on crit * No cooldown * Kinectic Damage * Reduce Armor * 4k damage each one (While wearing BM Gear) Tell me any other skill that does that. Lets not add you prance around with heavy armor, bunch of defensive cooldowns and heals. how big is our resource pool? 600 force?it has a 1.5 sec activation time. this means its easily interpretable and los'ed. it also means we cant move while using itgood thing it doesnt apply an internal dot that cant be cleansed huhi seem to have seen other skills that reduce armor4k damage huh? show me that video please because you are talking out of your *** name these defensive cooldowns you speak of. while you are at it name these so called heals we use as well with their healing rate and heat cost. ill see your heavy armor argument and raise you force camo, cloaking screen, force cloak, and force speed. heavy armor isnt looking so good is it now? dont let the door hit you in the *** on the way out of our forum now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vhyle Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 You know whats funny, if you go by this forum, the entire class forum, none of the classes that are currently in the game are worth anything. It seems to me that there is a ton of negativity about every class, that one has to ask themselves why even play the game if every single class is so bad? I'm not talking about just the BH, every single forum within the class section is so negative that it's like every class is crap and no one should play it. So, if that is the case, there is no reason to even play the game, and we all just wasted a lot of money on it. This game is not even centered around PvP, yet just because there is PvP, it becomes centered on it. I just don't understand what all the negativity is with every single class in the game. Apparently everything is hunky dory in PvE, all the negativity is centered on PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurmez Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 lol spam more tracer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashivauto Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Im not too concerned w/ the nerf to arsenal/tm considering I rarely use tm since its so easy to interupt by every class.... Im more concerned w/ the fact that we were already one of the weakest classes when it comes to survivability.... mercs have no escape or interupts and the one semi escape ability we have is also being nerfed- jet boost.... while minor, it shouldnt be nerfed at all... the only real defense we have is how hard we hit.... mercs are the easiest class to take down- stun, interupt, swing glow stick, force choke, interupt, stun, swing glow stick.... DEAD.... I wont change my class and Ill adapt to the new tree, but its BS.... if your going to nerf our power/dps(which is our only real defense), then give us a viable defense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuChuTrain Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Im not too concerned w/ the nerf to arsenal/tm considering I rarely use tm since its so easy to interupt by every class.... So..... What exactly did you use to do damage in arsenal spec? Power shot? just as interrupt-able and even if it wasn't, don't have the benefit from blowing gas, off hand damage laughable at best... Non-buffed HS missles? non-barrage procced unloads? non-buffed Rail shots on targets that had heat sigs / burned by other players? I guess you were an extremely effective cheerleader.. or exclusively the "knock off the platform dude" without doing any kind of feared damage... OR you were either Pyro or BG....in which case...you never used TM anyway.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cegenaus Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 lol spam more tracer i will since they didnt move any of our buffs/debuffs off of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loladarulz Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) I am in Champion gear and Tracer missile hits most up to 2800 on criticial. Without crit is 1500-1800. On tanks 1000-1700 - BM tank meh closer to 1000 - best to avoid shooting at this guys. Guarded players, even snipers, i just give up and switch target - cant kill it in reasonable time plus i must overheat. Highest crit in pvp I can get is about 4600 dmg with HEATSEAKER MISSILE and thats on some squishi sniper. And I have biochemy adrenals and stims. Thats 4-5-6 k dmg all-the-time is nonsense and Im pretty sure other classes can do the same. Merc cant kill well geared healer. Period. Never. You can shoot in him all day and nothing he will run arround like a happy man. You cant interrupt him really. Jedi classes pawn so hard mercs its not even funny. 90% of the time I am snared, on floor and interrupte with their kicks. And we can´t run, force speed, jump to ally or stealth - sometimes its best just to stand and wait for few seconds to die when outnumbered. And now they nerfed that shell dmg reduction to 1% - now we will drop dead even faster... Maybe only snipers have worse mobility... Merc OP gratz! And yes tracer is boring but thats up to bioware design... We will see less mercs on server now thats for sure. Edited March 19, 2012 by Loladarulz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loladarulz Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Sorry TM is not nerfed enough. * Gives back energy on crit * No cooldown * Kinectic Damage * Reduce Armor * 4k damage each one (While wearing BM Gear) Tell me any other skill that does that. Lets not add you prance around with heavy armor, bunch of defensive cooldowns and heals. * No cooldown - its channeled spell... * 4k damage each one (While wearing BM Gear) bunch of defensive cooldowns - LOL heals - did you ever see merc that heal himself with his heals succesfuly in fight? ......................................................................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowAI Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I really dont see why so many arsenal mercs are upset over 10% tracer nerf. it was 10% nerf. Nothing more or less. The other nerfs are worth discussing, but not tracer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazule Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 then I got some gear, in a nice mix of columi and champ gear I regularly see TM hitting harder than HSM, that is a false statement or you are doing something wrong. i have better gear than you based on your description Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazule Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I really dont see why so many arsenal mercs are upset over 10% tracer nerf. it was 10% nerf. Nothing more or less. The other nerfs are worth discussing, but not tracer. 10% TM nerf + more barrage procs = dps increase from what i can see... too many chicken littles in here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schaede Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 10% TM nerf + more barrage procs = dps increase from what i can see... too many chicken littles in here. Still can only proc 1 time every 6 seconds I assume. I can still assume a starting series will be TMx3, Unload, TMx2, Railshot&Heatseeker then back to the priority Unload on proc HMS Railshot TM if debuffs/buffs falling off TM if heat ok rapid shot this looks fine for PvE, nothing changed at all. I do wish they would let us have combat logs for a couple days before the patch so we could really see what a 10% nerf to TM does to our total damage output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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