1.2 Mara buffed, Operatives nerfed... Absolutely baffling.

[RkJedi]

re-roll a mara i did up to level 22 atm LOL i abandoned my sniper/op/sorc no love = no play.

[EternalFinality]

Good thing its on ptr so they can fix it before it goes live phew.

 

I laughed.

[Astarica]

I actually don't have much of an opinion on Operative DPS, but I'm not sure why people think they're being useful if they rarely picked off a random staggler in the middle of nowhere but can never be found in a big brawl that typically decides who wins a WZ. I mean I get that Operative are less useful in big brawl situations but I'd still rather have a less than useful guy than nobody at all, especially when it's a brawl in say the center turret of Alderaan that is likely to decide who wins the game.

[Howbadisbad]

I actually don't have much of an opinion on Operative DPS, but I'm not sure why people think they're being useful if they rarely picked off a random staggler in the middle of nowhere but can never be found in a big brawl that typically decides who wins a WZ. I mean I get that Operative are less useful in big brawl situations but I'd still rather have a less than useful guy than nobody at all, especially when it's a brawl in say the center turret of Alderaan that is likely to decide who wins the game.

 

You don't have no one at all, you get another class. You always pick another class over an Operative because other classes are a bigger help to your team everywhere.

[GrandMike]

I actually don't have much of an opinion on Operative DPS, but I'm not sure why people think they're being useful if they rarely picked off a random staggler in the middle of nowhere but can never be found in a big brawl that typically decides who wins a WZ. I mean I get that Operative are less useful in big brawl situations but I'd still rather have a less than useful guy than nobody at all, especially when it's a brawl in say the center turret of Alderaan that is likely to decide who wins the game.

 

Opposite team has something uselful while you have something useless=opposite team wins. Its very simple.

Edited March 20, 2012 by GrandMike

[DosPeros]

It's time for the good old "Why play an Operative if you can also use stealth as an Assassin and have better burst, better survivability and better utility at the same time?" question.

Noone has been able to give me an answer to that question so you can be the first!

 

 

Also the part about "the fight being over within 5 to 10 seconds" is just a myth. If that happens to you regularly you are either undergeared or making mistakes. No matter which class you are playing.

 

First question answer- I don't not know each class intimately, so I base this opinion only on personal observations of class make up .

 

Other characters have similar abilities but different play styles, strength and advantages.

The rules regarding an Assassin attacking a sentinel also apply. However he has one large weaknesses (light armor) that has to be offset by his higher burst. Another is their stealth is not nearly as stealthy. If you are within 10 meters of them you can "see" them, not so with an operative. you can practically pick their nose before they see you.

 

We see the same trade off with the Guard/Jugg vs. Sent/Mara. Sents use med armor but have much higher DPS, but on the downside we have no stuns where we get free hits and no knockbacks. Guardians use Heavy Armor but have lower DPS. In trade they get a arsenal of stuns, snares and knock backs, including several where they get free hits.

 

 

Regarding the "myth" of the 5 to 10 second kills. I am not the best pvp'er nor am I the worst. I win my share. I have a Lvl 73 valor Sentinel with all but two pieces of BM gear. I know it is not a myth, and I know they don't only do it to Sentinels. I'm not arguing that he should not win that fight, what I am saying is he should have to work a little harder than Knock down/face plant , swish swish, stun knife to the chest, swish swish fight over.

 

 

Bioware takes in more real data on this subject than all of these anecdotal bull*******s (including me) in here. If they were doing this based upon anecdotal info then you all are right they are stupid, but we know that is not the case.

 

If sents/mara become OP, then we will see nerfs as well.

[aspectsofwar]

I actually don't have much of an opinion on Operative DPS, but I'm not sure why people think they're being useful if they rarely picked off a random staggler in the middle of nowhere but can never be found in a big brawl that typically decides who wins a WZ. I mean I get that Operative are less useful in big brawl situations but I'd still rather have a less than useful guy than nobody at all, especially when it's a brawl in say the center turret of Alderaan that is likely to decide who wins the game.

 

Its because operative survivability is so bad. If they participated in big brawls like you are suggesting they would basically be about a 5 second decoy then they die and you're back to the situation you started in.

[Ich_Bin]

First question answer- I don't not know each class intimately, so I base this opinion only on personal observations of class make up .

 

Other characters have similar abilities but different play styles, strength and advantages.

The rules regarding an Assassin attacking a sentinel also apply. However he has one large weaknesses (light armor) that has to be offset by his higher burst. Another is their stealth is not nearly as stealthy. If you are within 10 meters of them you can "see" them, not so with an operative. you can practically pick their nose before they see you.

 

Operatives and Assassins have exactly the same stealth level. And they can increase it by skilling into it exactly the same too. So they are both exactly as easy/hard to see from stealth.

Assassins wear light armor, that is true. But in reality their survivability (even if not specced as tank) is much better than that of Operatives because of their AoE knockback and sprint.

 

Here is some food for thought for you:

Hi. My name is Xavory. I have a rank 67, fully Remodded Battlemaster Operative w/2p Rakata bonus(Xavory).

 

I also have a Rank 65, fully Remodded Battemaster Shadow(Xavori).

 

I play in one of the top pvp group/teams on the server, and most anyone on Jung Ma will tell you I can handle myself 1vX on either toon.

 

So I have a pretty good perspective on this topic. Here are my thoughts:

 

There is NOTHING my Operative can do that my Shadow can't do much better, including Burst damage, outside of healing of course. Speed, Utility, survivability, dps, burst...my Shadow can do more than my Operative on all fronts.

 

Bioware want's Operatives tied to stealth. They should have a stealth based gap closer at the very least, like Shadowstep.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[Bocherel]

^ It doesn't matter what that assassin/operative player opinion is.

 

There is no need for debate, Greg Zoeller said he doesn't want operative to be as competitive as others classes so they're going to nerf them until nobody play them.

[Shiroikage]

^ It doesn't matter what that assassin/operative player opinion is.

 

There is no need for debate, Greg Zoeller said he doesn't want operative to be as competitive as others classes so they're going to nerf them until nobody play them.

 

If this is true and i say IF the guy seriosuly has some screws loose somewhere up there...

I dont think i need to explain why.

[aspectsofwar]

^ It doesn't matter what that assassin/operative player opinion is.

 

There is no need for debate, Greg Zoeller said he doesn't want operative to be as competitive as others classes so they're going to nerf them until nobody play them.

 

Its sad really.

[Ryotknife]

I actually don't have much of an opinion on Operative DPS, but I'm not sure why people think they're being useful if they rarely picked off a random staggler in the middle of nowhere but can never be found in a big brawl that typically decides who wins a WZ. I mean I get that Operative are less useful in big brawl situations but I'd still rather have a less than useful guy than nobody at all, especially when it's a brawl in say the center turret of Alderaan that is likely to decide who wins the game.

 

wait....

 

if there is a big brawl in the middle, then the op will easily ninja cap one of the nodes and win the game.

 

if big brawls were all that mattered, stealthers would be useless. as it is stealthers, especially coordinated stealthers, are what wins ald and void.

 

for one, a sneak attack by stealthers can not be seen (dur) therefore they can not call for reinforcements until it is far too late. whereas an attack by non-stealthers would be seen 20-30 seconds away, making it so they only have to distract that attackers for a handful of seconds before reinforcements arrive.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Ryotknife

[Ich_Bin]

wait....

 

if there is a big brawl in the middle, then the op will easily ninja cap one of the nodes and win the game.

 

if big brawls were all that mattered, stealthers would be useless. as it is stealthers, especially coordinated stealthers, are what wins ald and void.

 

for one, a sneak attack by stealthers can not be seen (dur) therefore they can not call for reinforcements until it is far too late. whereas an attack by non-stealthers would be seen 20-30 seconds away, making it so they only have to distract that attackers for a handful of seconds before reinforcements arrive.

 

Even though this is true there are two stealth classes in this game. One of them is superior to the other in every single way.

[Taborpb]

i already stated in an earlier post i have a scoundrel..... I pick and choose my battles, within the first 15 seconds of any battle i have already identified my pref targets out of the 8 opponents and then begin to stalk them....waiting for the correct moment to strike.....

 

am i gonna go after the jugg with the huttball? of course not...am i gonna go after his healer? probably not way to risky, ill let the sentinel handle the healer, oh wait....there is my primary target, the idiot turret dps standing alone, BINGO !!

 

I thought of a way to say ops were useless in rated warzones... Thank you for making my point while trying to disprove it.

[Bocherel]

I thought of a way to say ops were useless in rated warzones... Thank you for making my point while trying to disprove it.

 

For real, the guy just explain why ops are not useful in WZ, I don't know what he was thinking when he mad his post

[Tremont]

1.2 is more likely to kill the game rather than making it "better"

 

and why the hell are they going to nerf operatives even more oh yeah wait all the unskilled and undergeared players are whining on forums since they die to BM operatives in on stunlock

 

Its like Bioware is trying to force everyone to play lightsaber classes

 

^^This is the most truthful thing I have read in a while.

[Feebs]

I love the ignorance in this thread. Parsing on the PTS has shown that Ops are in the same place as every other class is dps wise in comparable gear. Your ignorant crying is the reason Bioware will never listen to this nonsense. Come in here with facts and maybe they will give you some attention.

[Bocherel]

I love the ignorance in this thread. Parsing on the PTS has shown that Ops are in the same place as every other class is dps wise in comparable gear. Your ignorant crying is the reason Bioware will never listen to this nonsense. Come in here with facts and maybe they will give you some attention.

 

No, they are not, having the same DPS on a 5mn fight on average to try out the damage output DOES NOT translate to PVP and if Bioware devs admitted it themselves, why would you NOT to? Making blind non-sensical post is not helping your case.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Bocherel

[Kaelano]

marauder, properly geared, is only really great against light armor opponents, and in that respect, yes they can situationally be the best dps in important circumstances. they're not, however, the "best dps in game".

[DosPeros]

The company that made this game is Bioware/Mythic.

 

Mythic has never listened to players when it comes to class balance, and their games have always had long-term, game-breaking imbalances that caused players to quit while Mythic took literally years sometimes to get classes semi-balanced. Mythic's game's have also always featured numerous virtually useless classes/specs for PvP, and they often would nerf a class that was already so weak as to be reliant on maybe one or two skills to have any viability at all. (Shadow Warriors in Warhamer, anyone?) while buffing other already strong classes.

 

Why should SWTOR be any different?

 

But they should never listen to player about class balance! Only the statistical facts gathered through the game metrics are relevant.

 

Does anyone really believe that BIOware reads in the forum that LukeWannabe is pissed because he thinks operative s are OP and should be nerfed that they then go an nerf Operatives?

[Ich_Bin]

But they should never listen to player about class balance! Only the statistical facts gathered through the game metrics are relevant.

 

Does anyone really believe that BIOware reads in the forum that LukeWannabe is pissed because he thinks operative s are OP and should be nerfed that they then go an nerf Operatives?

 

That is exactly what they do. Read Georg Zoeller's statement.

If we leave the Operative the ability to stun lock and kill people — yes, there aren’t many Operatives — but over the long term, that means people will quit the game cause it’s not fun. We have very measurable statistics that tell us if people lose a certain number of Warzones in a row being stun locked by a team of Operatives, then that might be part of that, and they will be not as likely to re-subscribe.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[Rheeling]

marauder, properly geared, is only really great against light armor opponents, and in that respect, yes they can situationally be the best dps in important circumstances. they're not, however, the "best dps in game".

 

We can still tear apart some heavy armored opponents. Tracer Missile Mercs and their Commando brethren might as well just suicide themselves if I target them. Unless someone joins in against me, I rarely lose any more than 15-20% of my health before there's a dead Merc at my feet.

 

A Marauder alone can have a Commando healer spam healing himself, and panicking as he runs around trying to avoid going under 20% health. The only time I'm not a threat to them is when they pop their uninterruptable bubble.

 

I can still tear up pretty much any tank specced and geared heavy armor wearer, simply because even with their mitigation, they can't dream of winning a DPS race with me. Trust me, we're good against anything that remotely bases itself around casts, or doesn't have high DPS. Which is pretty much every class in the game outside of DPS Juggs and Pyrotech PT's.

 

EDIT: Good Concealment Ops are toss-up fights for us, along with the Darkness Assassins who wear dps gear.

 

Double EDIT: Not saying we are the best dps in the game, just saying that we're certainly deadly against classes other than clothies.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Rheeling

[Howbadisbad]

That is exactly what they do. Read Georg Zoeller's statement.

 

You ninja'd me bro D:

 

What if melee crits lowered all active cooldowns by 1 second

[DosPeros]

This is a ridiculous take on class balance I have ever seen.

 

 

brb, operatives should be useless out of stealth and marauders should be able to face roll anyone 1v1.

 

 

Most of operatives fighting occurs OUT of stealth.

 

 

Then maybe that is why you get rolled so much. The good operatives I have seen and faced wait for the right to strike. They don't run into the middle of the melee uncloaked. If there is a Melee the GOOD Operatives work the edges.

 

Stealth is a huge HUGE advantage!

 

A good Sent/Mara can average around 190k damage per WZ I see Operatives in the 300k all the time.

[Bocherel]

Then maybe that is why you get rolled so much. The good operatives I have seen and faced wait for the right to strike. They don't run into the middle of the melee uncloaked. If there is a Melee the GOOD Operatives work the edges.

 

Stealth is a huge HUGE advantage!

 

A good Sent/Mara can average around 190k damage per WZ I see Operatives in the 300k all the time.

 

When you wait for stealth the right and right moment only to kill someone who's already not useful to the other team (because he'd be in the melee) then you are just as useless to your team as your target

 

Plus consider that in order to re-stealth we need an INSANE amount of time without fighting, you can't follow the game flow if you do that but you sure end up with good classment in the WZ however you didn't help much the objective

Edited March 21, 2012 by Bocherel