1.2 Mara buffed, Operatives nerfed... Absolutely baffling.

[ProfessorWalsh]

You're a bad marauder. Both you and Mufutiz are the kind of laughable marauders I see in warzones and I just /facepalm.

 

Annihilation will still do the highest single target damage. Not only that but the cd reduction on disruption is a gamechanger for top end PVP - though not for the kind of pug stuff you do.

 

If you were any good, you would know that the removal of rage costs to disruption and IR are going to be absolutely huge for PVP. Free disruption alone is +1 rage per 6 seconds since I interrupt on cooldown. The new 50% snare on rupture is also a huge buff to annihilation and improves my ramp up time.

 

Again, I play a marauder and I play it much better than you. I'm out there destroying healers every day, and these are fantastic changes for us.

 

You don't see the buffs, when for real PVPers, they are enormous.

 

They are incredibly slight, and once again you don't play a Marauder or a Sentinel. +1 rage every 6 seconds... Big deal? I knew how to manage my Focus building properly. The 50% snare isn't much better than the 30% that we could already get. The end result of a 30% or a 50% is still the same, which is that we can keep up and deal damage, this won't help you ramp up any faster at all it will simply make it slightly easier to stay in range.

[Redmarx]

They are incredibly slight, and once again you don't play a Marauder or a Sentinel. +1 rage every 6 seconds... Big deal? I knew how to manage my Focus building properly. The 50% snare isn't much better than the 30% that we could already get. The end result of a 30% or a 50% is still the same, which is that we can keep up and deal damage, this won't help you ramp up any faster at all it will simply make it slightly easier to stay in range.

 

Your obvious lack of PVP experience shows. Stay bad.

[GrandMike]

You're a bad marauder. Both you and Mufutiz are the kind of laughable marauders I see in warzones and I just /facepalm.

 

Annihilation will still do the highest single target damage. Not only that but the cd reduction on disruption is a gamechanger for top end PVP - though not for the kind of pug stuff you do.

 

If you were any good, you would know that the removal of rage costs to disruption and IR are going to be absolutely huge for PVP. Free disruption alone is +1 rage per 6 seconds since I interrupt on cooldown. The new 50% snare on rupture is also a huge buff to annihilation and improves my ramp up time.

 

Again, I play a marauder and I play it much better than you. I'm out there destroying healers every day, and these are fantastic changes for us.

 

You don't see the buffs, when for real PVPers, they are enormous.

 

Going "but oooh, they didnt touch our damage" really shows how bad these are.

 

PUG level of the worse kind: running around like headless chickens. And if only they stay away, but noooo, they actually do stuff to LOSE WZ.

 

Unfortunately no buffs or nerfs will gonna help them, they will still get smoked by sorc (now even worse class than it was) and come to QQ soem moar, they just plainly suck, while high-end PvP will be dreadful.

Edited March 19, 2012 by GrandMike

[Redmarx]

Going "but oooh, they didnt touch our damage" really shows how bad these are.

 

PUG level of the worse kind: running around like headless chickens. And if only they stay away, but noooo, they actually do stuff to LOSE WZ.

 

Unfortunately no buffs or nerfs will gonna help them, they will still get smoked by sorc (now even worse class than it was) and come to QQ soem moar, they just plainly suck, while high-end PvP will be dradful.

 

Pretty much. It's sad that Bioware listened to the terribads like Mufutiz and Walsh.

 

Just watching the 3v3 stream that was floating around these forums made it obvious what the class balance changes should have been in 1.2:

 

EDIT: Found the stream:

http://www.twitch.tv/strikinginsanity/b/311379895

 

- Merc healer uninterruptability looked at

- Operatives and snipers needed buffs

- DPS mercs needed buffs

- Sorcs needed more survivability

- PT burst looked at

- Marauder survivability looked at

- Lack of data on juggs and assassins, no immediate changes needed

 

1.2 does pretty much the opposite of all this in nearly all categories.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Redmarx

[GrandMike]

Pretty much. It's sad that Bioware listened to the terribads like Mufutiz and Walsh.

 

Just watching the 3v3 stream that was floating around these forums made it obvious what the class balance changes should have been in 1.2:

 

EDIT: Found the stream:

http://www.twitch.tv/strikinginsanity/b/311379895

 

- Merc healer uninterruptability looked at

- Operatives and snipers needed buffs

- DPS mercs needed buffs

- Sorcs needed more survivability

- PT burst looked at

- Marauder survivability looked at

- Lack of data on juggs and assassins, no immediate changes needed

 

1.2 does pretty much the opposite of all this in nearly all categories.

 

But that would actually align with reality, BW seems to live in some kind of bubble where its all rainbow and unicorns and seem to do /roll for random "class balance" decisions (yah ingame roll)

Edited March 19, 2012 by GrandMike

[LarekGunstar]

well, i can't speak for the lvl 50 warzones, but sub level 50, marauders, including carnage marauders were completely awful. I don't know whether its because the gear didn't scale right or what, but i could play the game of my life as lvl 40 marauder and get like 200k damage, whereas i could log my sorc or mercenary and just run around and do whatever and put up similar numbers. And playing the game of my life as a sorc or merc, i've put up 400k with sorc and 350k with merc, so... the point being marauders needed a buff sub 50, i can't speak for 50+ however..

 

 

That is because you can so so much AOE damage as a sorc, not to mention we are ranged and don;t have to relocate to change targets many times. Why do people think because someone else tops the damage chart that means they are overpowered? Don't worry though, sorcs got a solid nerf, which I am sure you are happy for.

[Orielensis]

No, I really think it's as simple as what someone said earlier about whether BW are looking at average players in PUGs or expert players (also in PUGs but especially as part of premades).

 

It's clear they're looking at the former, which is the vast majority of players the vast majority of the time.

 

Almost all the theory crafters are agreed that atm Annihilation is the only viable spec for both PvP and PvE. I rarely see Rage maras and I'm pretty sure I'm the only BM level mara on my server that uses Carnage. (I just like it, and I don't really like dots or lolsmash.)

 

With nearly 30 keybinds, 20 seeing regular use, it's obvious most people playing maras, especially in PUGs with little or no healing, will be poor and so the stats will tell BW we need buffing. And they will tell BW Rage and Carnage needed buffing in particular because hardly anyone plays them.

 

I have a lot of sympathy for the ops and scoundrels posting. I haven't played one but it sounds weird BW haven't applied the same logic they seem to have applied to sents and maras.

[SwordofSodan]

All it does is confirms PVP players ruin good MMO's. Not that i think this game is ruined by any means.

No developers ruin good MMO's because they choose to believe these PvP whiners. Edited March 19, 2012 by SwordofSodan

[zStrife]

Marauder - the strongest DPS in the game and arguably most powerful PvP class in organized PvP get massive buffs.

 

Operative - the weakest sustained DPS in the game has sustained DPS nerfed while keeping high burst.

 

This should confirm to everyone how clueless Bioware is when it comes to class balance. I've lost all hope. I hate to say it but this puts the nail in the coffin for me. I don't see bioware suddenly having an epiphany and understanding class balance any time in the near future. Do you?

 

What I read after the first sentence. I want to 10k crit people again, how dare you for making me l2play.

[Redmarx]

No, I really think it's as simple as what someone said earlier about whether BW are looking at average players in PUGs or expert players (also in PUGs but especially as part of premades).

 

It's clear they're looking at the former, which is the vast majority of players the vast majority of the time.

 

Completely agreed.

 

The only way the 1.2 balance changes make sense is if they took into account only the opinions of really bad players.

 

And by that I mean the really bad pug whiners who complained about "too much healing" in PVP, when most classes could be killed in a couple of GCDs by a 3-man assist.

 

Rated warzones will be a joke for the skilled PVP community with the huge imbalances they are introducing.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Redmarx

[warkat]

nerf operative dmg but give them a gap closer.

[Vaklain]

All it does is confirms PVP players ruin good MMO's. Not that i think this game is ruined by any means.

 

PvP players ruin games? You logic is flawless.

[Ozzone]

No developers ruin good MMO's because they choose to believe these PvP whiners.

 

Don't you love how players are blamed when the control is in BW's hands? This game is not a democracy, it is BW's game and they are the ones to choose what goes in or comes out.

[sesshiroth]

im a marauder myself and i rly have no idea y were gettin a buff lol. once u understood how to play and got the rotations down. they are insane. i think bw rly needs to play their own game lol. i think instead of buffing/nerfing classes. mayb focus on CROSS SERVER PVP. man rift had that wen it first released. not that hard. as for ops. ya not rly sure y their gettin their nerf. they deserve a buff. their becoming a dieing breed. i see less and less of them these days ps i no it sounds odd but ya im sorta complaining the maras get a buff lol soon ppl will qq about us being to strong and we'll end up like operatives.

[Crawelc]

I have a 50 Mara and a 50 Sent, different servers. This "buff" in nothing more and nothing less than a tree rebalance. All the theory crafting on this site is rediculous. Go to the PTS forums and look at the real numbers from actual 50's playing on the PTS they tested all 3 specs on the dummys. Anni/watch is right where it was and the other 2 specs while still doing a bit lower damage are on par with Anni now. Dont cry when you have no real numbers to back it up.

[Jo-Han]

He is best DPS class right now. And he is only class that can keep sustained DPS if played right. Only real healer killer right now. And if played right - he is unkillable in 1vs1 against equally geared target.

 

I challenge you to defeat an equally skilled Shadow tank with a Marauder. That fight is so loopsided its silly. I cant count how many sentinels that have fallen before my tank assassin. They are my first priority target.

[GrandMike]

I challenge you to defeat an equally skilled Shadow tank with a Marauder. That fight is so loopsided its silly. I cant count how many sentinels that have fallen before my tank assassin. They are my first priority target.

 

You must take into account 95% marauders/sentinels totally suck.

 

And then they come to forums to QQ about how bad they play and need a buff.

 

5% of good ones scratch their head and cant believe what BW has done

Edited March 19, 2012 by GrandMike

[Crawelc]

Its not a buff Im sorry, the other 2 specs were simply brought into line with Watchman/Anni damage, there is data from the test server dummys up. Watchman is unchanged combat and focus now are closer to WM damage but still not past it.

[Ich_Bin]

No, I really think it's as simple as what someone said earlier about whether BW are looking at average players in PUGs or expert players (also in PUGs but especially as part of premades).

 

It's clear they're looking at the former, which is the vast majority of players the vast majority of the time.

 

Almost all the theory crafters are agreed that atm Annihilation is the only viable spec for both PvP and PvE. I rarely see Rage maras and I'm pretty sure I'm the only BM level mara on my server that uses Carnage. (I just like it, and I don't really like dots or lolsmash.)

 

With nearly 30 keybinds, 20 seeing regular use, it's obvious most people playing maras, especially in PUGs with little or no healing, will be poor and so the stats will tell BW we need buffing. And they will tell BW Rage and Carnage needed buffing in particular because hardly anyone plays them.

 

I have a lot of sympathy for the ops and scoundrels posting. I haven't played one but it sounds weird BW haven't applied the same logic they seem to have applied to sents and maras.

 

I couldn't agree more.

This game is being "balanced" for casual players. Not for people who want to play competitive PvP. That's why we will see a huge class imbalance when ranked warzones are running.

[MightyHalo]

I challenge you to defeat an equally skilled Shadow tank with a Marauder. That fight is so loopsided its silly. I cant count how many sentinels that have fallen before my tank assassin. They are my first priority target.

 

I ran into one the other day with my mara and got destroyed. I was actually shocked.

 

Went back at him round 2 and did much better, but I still went down with him at 25%.

[AstralProjection]

The only viable spec really pre 1.2 for Sent/Marauder was the DOT tree. That line didn't really get a buff, we lost major parts of it. Combat/Carnage needed the buff. Focus/Rage I can't explain, probably the "Easy" Spec.

 

Combat/Carnage needed a buff and didn't get one.

 

At least one tree that needed it got something, though I still don't see Focus spec being super useful in PVE (Maybe a Focus Sent/Marauder has a better opinion on that than me).

 

I wouldn't say Annihilation/Watchman really got a buff or a nerf, just changed. Everyone got some damage immunity on their Force Camo, just half of what Watchman talented to, but their Force Camo is still better than the other specs..to compensate they got a buff to their slow.

 

Making Master Strike uninterruptible was probably BioWare's way of saying "My bad" for giving Sentinels' top damage non-spec move a channel effect in the first place. It will still be outranged easily for those who aren't specced Combat.

 

Force Kick and Awe/Pacify losing their focus cost/GCD is great, but it will just mean we don't sacrifice as much DPS to properly try to lock down a healer.

 

As it was you could destroy any bad healer, but good healers could still laugh as you used every interrupt you possibly could, and you were costing yourself enough focus and GCD time that you weren't able to finish the job.

[Derian]

I'm sorry but I think what you said about Undying Rage is not completely correct. Often, instead of waiting for near-death situation, it's handy to prevent big bursts which you can predict to some degree by watching your opponent's buffs and cast bar.

 

LOL! Why would you kill 50% of your health? Why not just use another defensive cool down? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[MMOgamer]

Can you please post these "massive Mara buffs". Thanks.

[MMOgamer]

You must take into account 95% marauders/sentinels totally suck.

 

And then they come to forums to QQ about how bad they play and need a buff.

 

5% of good ones scratch their head and cant believe what BW has done

 

LOL Coming from the guy who comes to the forums to QQ about mara/sentinels every single day, this is hilarious.

[EternalFinality]

I found Carnage to be very strong on my Mara. Its amazing in PvP. High burst damage, high sustained damage, 15% movement speed increase over the other specs and tons of snare breakers etc. This is before the incoming buffs of course.

 

With a dedicated healer I'm an unstoppable wrecking ball.

 

On my operative however, I struggle to even stay in the fight. The damage outside of opening burst is pathetic. You die in seconds and have terrible in combat mobility. At least I can get a 2.5k healing medal that my mara cant I guess...

 

I was honestly expecting the complete opposite of what Bioware has decided to do. This does not bode well for the future of class balance in my opinion.

 

The dark secret is that Combat/Carnage was never bad - it simply did not do as much damage as Annihilation/Watchman. This caused most Marauders to just write it off.

 

Thing is, the damage isn't that far behind, and you have so much more control. The roots on Master Strike/Crippling Throw are huge. The Ataru form passive movespeed boost is huge. It's more difficult to kite you since Blade Storm is now a big part of your damage, and crippling throw keeps people in range.

 

The utility (especially in Huttball!) more than makes up for the damage loss, but most Marauders simply think more damage is always better.

 

And now it's getting buffed even more, AND the PvE Ataru proc bugs are being fixed so it'll be viable there too. This pleases me greatly.