We cannot survive with the Changes, Please Reconsider these Nerfs to Wrath CL, Heal

[Darth_Aksestos]

We the sorc players must accept the fact that BioWare just crushed the sorc class -especially- for pvp except if anybody thinks that we got enough juice to be able not just fight decent , but to even survive.....

Ratings are coming out pretty soon , and sorc cant do enough dmg and wont have anymore a good dmg combo.As i said , WHOLE HYBRID BUILD was -based- in the Wrath with insta CL !If they got this away , Hybrid build is D E A D.Some people can troll as much as they wish , anyway haters gonna hate thats the rule and cannot be changed...

 

PS : my lovely sorcerer as well is going to the fridge for now.Too bad cuz it was a pretty fun class to play , but i prefer to keep having some fun , not getting killed by blue item marauders or any other class -especially- in 1 v 1.And that wont be cuz i dont know how to play my sorc , i usually do 350-400k dmg and getting the 25kill medal for example, the reason is because the class WONT BE GOOD ENOUGH.Simple , isnt it ?

[Terrestrial]

Kind of ironic to go to rated war zones simultaneously with these changes. Why didn't anyone at Bioware lift a finger to fix the 31 point talents if they were taking away the hybrid wrath+CL build? I don't understand this.

[warultima]

Kind of ironic to go to rated war zones simultaneously with these changes. Why didn't anyone at Bioware lift a finger to fix the 31 point talents if they were taking away the hybrid wrath+CL build? I don't understand this.

 

Because its too much work to maintain SWTOR and BW dont want to do it, and figured out the best way to shift peoples focus so they can slowly kill this game off. And eventually pushing people to go to something like this.

 

Oh F2P w/ Cash Shop is better money anyways.

[warultima]

Sorc is the weakest burst dps class out of all existing ACs. You got this right.

And burst is the **** in pvp.

 

In fact the Sorc roles should be changed to

"AoE only Healer/Hutball Assistance"

since "Healer/Dps" is not up on par especially in the DPS department.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Arzhanin
Quoted removed content

[propht]

Speak with ur money, all i gota say. Already unsubbed.

[sensiblepoast]

wrong

 

 

wrath cl's only crit up to 4k ish on light armor targets ~3.3 on heavy.. it was our hardest hitting burst spell

Only? ONLY?

Edited March 19, 2012 by sensiblepoast

[Mordeguy]

Whoever has not played this version of "Sorcerer" really can't say anything in this forum. it is by FAR one of the weakest classes in the game. Yes i don't mind not being able to hit those 10k crits(PvE) 6k crits(pvp), but taking away our ability to combo our attacks severely hurts. i don't use just hit 1 button as sorc... i use at the very least 10 in both pvp and pve(which is vastly more than most people). my philosophy as a sorc dps was, "don't use it unless it can be instant" and that's the ONLY reason i can keep my DPS up at all. if i am forced to have to charge anything, my dps will drop so dramatically it will be laughable.

 

Not to nitpick but what? Which class uses less than 10? If you want to be literal about it all classes should be using a lot more than 10 keys. When people call a class a 1 or 2 button class it's mostly referring to just the primary skills needed to kill someone. On my assassin I use 32 binds in pvp, I sure wish I only needed 10.

 

Personally I don't think any of the classes needed nerfs, but rather a few just needed some buffs. Nerfs take things in the wrong direction when done on big scale. I can also see why sorcs aren't even as strong as the masses believe them to be, but trying to claim them as one of the weakest is not going to get much sympathy. Besides, who hasn't played one and seen for themselves by now?

[seektravota]

now presence of mind doesn't proc telekinetic wave, it makes the hybrid spec completely useless.

 

it's ruining the diversity of sage play styles here. we love hybrid spec because its combined flexibility of damage, control, sustainability and survivability, in both pvp and pve. if you go simulation, it's not actually doing the highest DPS, it does a bit lower dps than single telekinetic or full balance. i think damage spec the forum talking about as OP is the 13/28 spec, but anyone who played that spec will know that one has serious force sustainability issues, that's why very few is using it. most of the people who use hybrid, use presence of mind to proc telekinetic wave, and put the rest of the skill points where situation demands, be it pvp, pve, group fights, single target, boss fight, etc.

 

the whole point of presence of mind proc'ing other damaging abilities give players more flexibility to tweak their specs. but now this change only makes this class dull to play, because in pvp: you go heal or balance; in pve, you go heal or telekinetics. that's it. you can't tweak your skill points and play with it any more, it's just getting dull to play this class.

Edited March 20, 2012 by seektravota

[HitmannD]

This is a re-post from another thread to which I replied. This thread seems to be followed more, and the comments are relevant here, as both threads pertain to the same thing.

 

Originally Posted by _Minmaxer_

My Chain Lightning hits for 4 to 4.5k on geared light armor targets. Death Field is about 3.5k. Properly geared sorcs with the wrath/CL hybrid would also be using stalker armor giving 3 recklessness charges on a lower CD. If I proc a wrath I can then pop recklessness, giving me 4 * 1200 = 4800 + 4500 + 3500 = that's around 13k of damage, assuming red buff and power relic, which every does when talking about burst. On poorly geared/pve geared targets my Force Lightning will tick for 1500 buffed..

 

I play one of the top PVP sorcerers on the east coast RP PVP server and can confirm these numbers. 4.5k is high end crit damage on chain lightning, and 3.5k crit for death field. I used to be able to put up close to 6k prior to the surge nerf. Despite the numbers, I honestly don't think the spec warranted this dramatic of a change, and here is why.

 

First and foremost, while numbers may have needed tweaking, topping the DPS chart in a warzone is justified for sorcerers, because we are a glass cannon. If you spec lightning/wrath DPS hybrid, that's your primary role. A group with a good healer or two can typically survive a sorcerer's AOE onslaught, so its not an instant "I win" button or "total faceroll" like many described it. Any group, without a healer, stupid enough to let a sorcerer nuke away deserves to be cut down as it is very simple to neutralize the sorcerer by burning him down quickly or CC'ing him during his build-up. We can only put up numbers like that when there is a large buildup via wrath & recklessness, with a long cooldown. ~3k is a high crit on chain lightning without prep.

 

Secondly, we have undeniably the least defensive capabilities of any class with our light armor and lack of any sort of significant defensive ability (static barrier gives minimal protection. Its only saving grace is that it can be used on team mates, which makes it a nice ability). We survive by sprinting away, using our CC's to keep the enemy at bay, or by killing faster than our foe can kill us. We also have to rely upon group mates heals with this spec unless we can find a way to avoid getting hit for 3.5 seconds per cast. The spec is also fairly vulnerable in 1v1 battles, (granted, player skill and gear factor in, but against equally skilled & geared players), though not by any means helpless.

 

Finally, there are plenty of classes that can put up numbers similar to the sorcerer hybrid wrath spec in total damage dealt over a warzone, and far more classes that can out burst us especially on a single target. Just on the imperial side, DPS Mercs, Crit Juggs, and Snipers to name a few.

 

I personally feel that the hybrid nerf is simply lazy on the part of Bioware, and overreacting to the whines of ill informed players who would have people believing we can heal, DPS, tank, fly, shoot lasers out of our eyeballs, spontaneously combust and reform at the speed of light, all at the same time. This is by no means the "end of sorcerers" though as many say on this forum, they will survive since sorcerers are a very versatile class. I believe that versatility is the root of the complaints from most people and the reason why you see so many sorcerers/sages in warzones. Yes, this change will eliminate the AOE DPS niche for sorcerers, but MMO's change, and there's little we can do but voice our opinions on the forums or talk with our wallets by canceling the sub.

 

A much better solution in my opinion would be to remove the 20% damage boost from wrath, assuming I understand the reason for this change, being too much damage. Or, they could limit wrath as they are doing, but simultaneously boost force storm's damage so that it is actually useful for anything more than preventing a bomb from being planted. These would have retained our ability to fill an AoE DPS niche, which IMHO is a natural role for a sorcerer being a "glass cannon". After this nerf I would certainly advocate them giving the 31 point abilities a little love at the very least, as they are lackluster at best.

 

These are my simple and honest observations and suggestions as one who has played a sorcerer from launch focusing mainly on PVP. I admit my viewpoint on class balance may be off because I'm a decent player and typically excel at whatever class I play in MMO's, so I don't really know how much to attribute towards my skill versus class power.

 

I rolled a sorcerer because I wanted to shoot lightning, not because it was flavor of the month; there was no flavor of the month when I started playing. I currently use a 0/25/16 build. I've also been running this spec from the very beginning with only minor tweaks here and there to min/max. I am confident that the good sorcerers will survive this change since they are such a versatile class, and good players can adapt to changes.

 

As a side note, I have canceled my account, although not due to the sorcerer changes, its more for lack of PVP content and Bioware's socialist philosophy towards the game. They seem to have a strong desire to bring everyone down to a mediocre level. ( Example. The Ilum chest bans for those who "thought outside the box", and the warzone 4 metal valor cap.) Furthermore they use a downward adjusting mentality for balancing which is a very poor way to handle class balance and should be reserved for extreme cases of imbalance.

 

Think about how much better these changes would have been received if they had simply significantly buffed the weaker classes that needed some love.

 

Anyway, that's my 2 credits on the change. Take it as you will.

 

 

 

Jo'dan the Destructive

Sith Sorcerer

Imperial War Hero of Ven Zallow

[Jakeswed]

Every class can't be a burst class. Sustained dmg is the best really, reminds me of the Warlock in WoW. Weak 1on1 but absolutely great with backup and on sustained dmg.

[lobotaru]

Frankly, if they are doing nerfs and balances based on player complaints and not play testing, that is going to be a problem in the long run for the game. It will just lead to an endless cycle of nerfing and buffing because there will always be people complaining about their class or other classes.

[Kyhren]

I honestly cannot fathom how such a change was even considered without compensation elsewhere – there is a fundamental reason people play this spec, the Lightning and Madness 31 talent points are GARBAGE.

 

If this patch goes live with these changes as they are, I will be astounded.

[corelina]

Every class can't be a burst class. Sustained dmg is the best really, reminds me of the Warlock in WoW. Weak 1on1 but absolutely great with backup and on sustained dmg.

 

But a squishy class needs to be able to burst.

[recsa]

So... you actually play like a true DoT class instead of no dots and just burst with DF and CL when wrath is up? lololol.

 

Is same with Madness / Balance sin / shadow. We have no burst. There is none. Hardest hit is death field / force in balance, in rest is pressure and control with root / slow and steady constant dmg. You have 30m range for that, we need melee range :>

 

Nobody said you are supposed to 3 shot peeps as a sorc (lololol), you play as a team member, and throw a shield here, a friendly pull there, a root there, snare that with FL, put some dots there etc.

 

OMG you really have no idea, who said sorc was a support class? sorc is a healer/dps class, and right now its the weakest DPS in game (1.2 i mean)

 

Also, sorc was NEVER able to 3 shots any1, to be precise, one of few DPS classes not able to.

 

Another Fact sorc was always the LOWEST burst dmg class, now its even worse, so go figure how good it will be in PvP where burst is all that matters (hi there maras, operatives, snipers ...)

[Raazmir]

Ok first off, sorcs are not fully OP....not even close. Put us in a 1v1 Match...

 

I'ma stop you right there....pvp is never balanced around 1v1 combat in an mmo.

[Nosaj]

65 Val Dps 13/28 Sorc here.

 

You've nerfed us down from an avg. dps, avg util class to a low dps, avg util class.

 

Guess I'll be playing my alt Marauder now until it gets nerfed. I don't see any logic in this move, the assasin doesn't get touched...

[corelina]

I can see the wrath nerf, but the nerf to force lightning, ie Disintegration and Calcify, is a bit much. If you are going to nerf force lightning, then at least buff static field, so we can at least have a chance when someone is right in our faces, being as squishy as we are.

[Jakeswed]

But a squishy class needs to be able to burst.

 

Nope. As shown with the warlock from wow. Weak 1on1 but shines in teamplay with support. As it should be imo. Sorcerers are fine and maybe even needed a small nerf. It would certainly be extremely unbalanced to give them burst on top of the sustained dmg.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Jakeswed

[Blotter]

I play a full heal spec'd BM sorcerer (31/7/3) and any situation that invovles 2 similary/equally geared DPS on you, then you spend your entire time healing yourself through it, getting stunlocked and interrupted and hoping someone comes save you. if you're very lucky, you vcan overload one or both of them over a ledge to get them out of your hair...or maybe electrocute one and hoof it to where someone else might pick them up for you so you can go back to healing. I don't care how good anyone claims they are...that is the TRUTH unless they are fighting people who are significanlty lower geared than or who are simply terribad players who have no clue how to work together to kill you off. Throw 2 of any BM geared dps'ers at me and I'm stuck, rooted, stunned, interrupted, bubbling myself and trying to heal through it and, if lucky, can escape with a lucky knockback or a stun that doesn't get immediately trinketed.

 

That's how it should be. I shoudl be able to survive like crazy without really doing much in the way of dmg. Apparently, however, every DPS'er out there, not to mention BW, seems to think that healers should not only be unable to kill many people themselves (onoy receive pity kill count as secondhand crap), but should be incredibly easy kills themselves because all you have to do is tickle them until they OOF and then beat them while they stand there doing nothing in hopes you make it quick so they can go back to playing...AFTER standing behind the timed lockout barrier again. That's a load of crap.

 

Any team that knows what it is doing focus fires us already, especailly if they recognize you as good at what you do. That results in quick deaths in between runs of healing unless one of the other healers distracts himself from healing the tanks/dps to help you survive, which is still a detriment. This nonsense that sorc healers were somehow OP is complete garbage. Heck, BW even painted a steaming turd red and black and called it our BM gear considering how insanely crappy our 2nd set bonus is. I think it's becoming obvious that BW's idea of PvP is 14 glass cannons running around obliterating each other left and right while the 2 healers left on the server run around the field like the easy bonus kill target dummies who everyone focus fires as though it's a gambling game to see who comes out with the medal.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Arzhanin
Quoted removed content

[Skysfury]

Nope. As shown with the warlock from wow. Weak 1on1 but shines in teamplay with support. As it should be imo. Sorcerers are fine and maybe even needed a small nerf. It would certainly be extremely unbalanced to give them burst on top of the sustained dmg.

 

LOL..why are u comparing Sorcs with Locks? Locks have IMBA dots and the spells do hell of alot healing on them/ not to say about theyre burst/aoe dmg and mobility...STOP DOING THAT, U LOOK BAD>>>

 

Besides sorcs beeing so LOW dps...like ppl said before crits sucked, burst sucked, heals medium and now suck...we are very squishy too...having other classes critting u for 4-6k (Champion/BM gear on both players) that means 1 crit takes ur shield down and the next 3 kill u...

 

Bioware made a really big mistake by nerfing so MUCH a class from start...

Was really thinking to abandon WoW for this game..now ill reconsider that

[fungihoujo]

I've never seen a patch single handedly turn one of my favourite classes into perhaps the worst class I've ever played- it's not only no longer viable, it's no longer any fun- healing consists of being utterly shut down by 2... heck, even just 1 marauder, trying to get off heals means being easily interrupted repeatedly, damage is below subpar.

 

The nice thing is though- half our guild sorcs have quit, so I'm rare!

[VainEldritch]

Sorcerers are fine and maybe even needed a small nerf.

 

/Force Choke

[fungihoujo]

You were over powered - try and find one non sorc healer who isn't ok with your healing nerf - idk about your dps nerf but your healing one was needed

 

This just in, breaking news! Players of one class are happy another class has been nerfed through the ground.

 

 

In other news, the sun is hot.

[RenzoMalice]

i don;t see any problems with the Cl nerf. i'm actually doing more dps now with the switch than i was prior but thats only as far as pvp and the 21/20 spec goes. i still get instant CL's off of lightning strike. just not as powerful or ares frequent but basically endless lightning strikes with wrath.

[Ravenbrand]

You were over powered - try and find one non sorc healer who isn't ok with your healing nerf - idk about your dps nerf but your healing one was needed

 

Yeah, the double dipping bug.. tell the community something that we didn't already know, pointed out and complained to BW about since Day 1. Please, don't even try to say that nerfing the healing into the ground to make sorcs not even competitive with Merc/Commando and Op/Scoundrel heals is justified.