1.2 - Combat Medic - Major Nerfs

[Fikkle]

Like many others here in this thread, I have been a staunch Bioware defender, excusing the minor problems with the game because I realize they need time to work on them. But after reading the patch notes I was stunned that they are going to destroy the viability of the Combat Medic.

 

I'm so much of a fanboy that I signed up as a mentor for new players, because I thought it would help build community. After having recommended this game to all my family and friends, I feel betrayed that they are going to do this to the class balance.

 

Like many others, I just cancelled my 6 month recurring sub in protest. These changes are terrible Bioware. If you can't see that, you won't see my sub fees anymore either.

[RedWolfs]

Hello, who woke up and decided to piss off a good chunk of your players over at BW. Really you guys need to explain why most of a combat medics skill tree points should be made worth half of what they were worth. Failing to do so will result in loss of players.

 

Has no one at BW studied MMO history, you guys this sort of approach to the game has killed many a MMO, including another Star Wars MMO. It is always a mistake to break out the nerf bat without a darn good reason, and you have failed to give one. BW you get a F for communication yet again.

[UglyGreenTrog]

I reckon our supercharge cells looks more like "powered by lemon batteries cell" now.

 

Alot of High end/PVP players have been saying that their combat medics will be fine as they find it "too easy" now but I'd like to ask this; what happens to those of us learning the class, who don't have a great list of server contacts to get groups or don't have guilds who are fully capable of raiding HM Ops or even running HM FPs yet? I have only just hit 50 and am trying to gear myself for raids and HMs but unless I get geared before 1.2 I don't see how I will manage it as I won't be up to the task of healing these things.

 

Now even if I did devote the next 4 weeks of my life to solidly getting gear, the people in my guild who I enjoy grouping and playing with would be completely left behind, People forget that even if you are the best geared healer on the server if the people around you are either less well geared or less able, you are still gonna find healing them much harder.

 

Edit: Completely agree with Redwolfs A post from BW stating why they felt these changes were necessary and what function a combat medic was intended to have may go someway to mollify the masses. I am currently sitting here trying to work out where the hell these changes were inspired from and why they were thought to be a good idea.

Edited March 17, 2012 by UglyGreenTrog

[Jinkblade]

I reckon our supercharge cells looks more like "powered by lemon batteries cell" now.

 

and we will now be known as combat nurses.

[DarthVoi]

Currently I have way easy time healing. My guess is that even if the nerfs go live I would at worst have moderate learning to do, hardly the end of the world.

[Dast]

Healing is already hard in ops as a combat medic. These nerfs would make us unviable for a spot in ops.

In pvp we get destroyed by any dps class, heal and kill them>? thats rediculous.

 

Time to roll a sorc and faceroll lightning in wz all day.

 

Forget that, canceled subscription. byeeeee

Edited March 18, 2012 by Dast

[Aaoogaa]

It is this simple Bioware. If this nerf goes live I will unsub and not come back.

 

What CM should be seeing in 1.2.

+Combat rez

+Interrupt

+Kolto bomb hitting 4 targets

 

There should be no negative changes to any abilities.

[Ithnaar]

Currently I have way easy time healing. My guess is that even if the nerfs go live I would at worst have moderate learning to do, hardly the end of the world.

 

The only thing you will have to learn is this : Your sustainable rotation has changed from

 

Advanced Probe -> Med Probe -> Hammer Shot

 

to

 

Advanced Probe -> Med Probe -> Hammer Shot -> Hammer Shot

 

What effect does that trivial change mean ?

 

It means that in a six-minute boss fight, assuming you manage all your resources flawlessly, you will do 30% less healing over the course of the battle than you used to.

 

Maybe that only seems like a 'moderate' problem to some folks, but not to me, especially seeing as another change that had the same effect on whether you win or lose with a trooper healer could have been this:

 

All boss mobs in groups with a trooper healer will now do 30% more damage.

 

What would the 'boards be like if it was posted that way, eh ?

[Musezy]

It is this simple Bioware. If this nerf goes live I will unsub and not come back.

 

What CM should be seeing in 1.2.

+Combat rez

+Interrupt

+Kolto bomb hitting 4 targets

 

There should be no negative changes to any abilities.

 

Heck, I would just be happy with:

+Combat rez

+Interrupt

 

My feedback is sent. If changes go live as currently posted, I will respec my combat medic to DPS and if I don't like that... then I will un-sub. Either way, my group just lost their primary healer.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Musezy

[pogues]

Currently I have way easy time healing. My guess is that even if the nerfs go live I would at worst have moderate learning to do, hardly the end of the world.

Healing what? PvE content? PvP? HM? NMM? That statement seems vague it is curious if you actually play a CM.

 

The more I think about these nerfs the less I feel they are justified. CM have always been at a slight disadvantage to the other healers with a lack of a combat res and no true interrupt for pvp. I have gone and played 10 wz since my previous post and have seen how it will require some changes to my mode of play and require must more liberal use of hammer shot, which is frightening as it is a big green line that tells dps to nuke you and unless you have a premade chances are your pug allies won't make an effort to keep dps away from you.

 

After watching a sage in my guild play and checking his scores I have become even more disillusioned with these patch notes. We are of the same skill and roughly same gear level. He is able to out heal me with relative ease while still being able to stand up in 1v1 fights. Most of the time in 1v1 I just have to heal myself till the other player eventually dies from my random attacks or reinforcements come to save me, especially if I am up against a full geared battlemaster.

 

I don't know if BW has thought this out all the way, there are guilds that may indeed sit their CM from NMM because they need the better heals of the other classes. What I really can't figure out is what brought these nerfs on, but not nerfs to sages. If it had been an across the board heavy nerf to healing specs I would understand, but as it is sages received a slight nerf in the form of an increased cast time, that's hardly the level of the nerf sent against CM.

 

If it was about PvE balance I don't see it as CM aren't a must have, but are a nice and available alternative to bringing two sages. In PvP any trouble people have killing a CM they will have against a Sage or a Scoundrel, especially if they don't know what heals to interrupt or when to use their stuns. Force armor + speed can save a Sage countless times. A CM has to eat the damage and hope for the best.

 

I don't buy the argument that there are just to many Troopers as BW has said that Inq are the most played class in the game and they did not receive a heavy nerf to all their trees.

 

In the long run these are just the first round of patch notes and hopefully BW will do some research before they potentially bench a whole class.

[Rybar]

I'm extremely disappointed in the combat medic changes. If the issue is that they are trying to make managing resources more important, I can understand that, I just don't agree with the approach.

 

With the right rotation, ammo was never really a problem in PvE, but that was a good thing because our healing was subpar to other classes, so being able to put out constant heals seemed to me like the compensation to being able to compete.

 

I would think the answer to the resource management would be to increase our major heals slightly and increase the cost (they did the cost part right).

 

But nerfing resources AND our heals?? It makes NO sense to me.

 

I do PvE and PvP, if you're going to reduce my resources in PvP at least change hammershot (which is generates ammo) viable in PvP and less of a giant target on my back.

[Musezy]

I do PvE and PvP, if you're going to reduce my resources in PvP at least change hammershot (which is generates ammo) viable in PvP and less of a giant target on my back.

 

I agree with this 100% I avoid using HS in PvP at all costs... it is basically a HUGE-GREEN-NEON-FLASHING-SIGN that reads: "Please kill me now!"

 

Also, for the person who posted earlier that a Combat Medic is OP'd in a 1v1...

Really? You do know CMs are single target healers right? So I stop healing my group to heal myself.... which if you were playing in a smart group gives you the opening you need. And you think that is OP'd? Really? Anyway, last time I checked, the game is not supposed to be balanced around 1v1. I do believe the devs have said that many times.

[MasterCefalu]

I have Combat Medic spec (full spec, not hybrid) on my main character (lvl 50). I play casually, but I have done solo/companion play, HM FPs, HM Ops, and PVP (Ilum and Warzones). I feel I've done enough of the content to provide some relevant input here.

 

First of all, I am wondering why all these changes need to be made.

 

1. Could it be balance between classes? I can't totally comment on healing comparisons for Scoundrel/Sage because I haven't played them to 50, but I can tell you that from the FPs/Ops I've played in, I felt like I had to work really hard to keep up all the heals, and others have mentioned that they prefer the Sage to the Trooper to begin. So, it can't be an issue of being OP compared to other heal classes.

 

2. It is about being OP in PVE? It's hard enough to heal Ops and FPs right now (especially if the tank/dps are under-geared or have some kind of goofy hybrid spec). It's not a cakewalk by any means, and with these changes, it's going to be even harder to heal. Even if you happen to be the best Trooper healer ever, groups and guilds aren't going to want you knowing the nerfs you've received. They'll pick an average Sage or Scoundrel over you any day of the week.

 

3. Is it about PVP balance? I heard some others mention it's about being able to heal yourself indefinitely. This is definitely not true. You will eventually run out of ammo, and a DPS class will take you down, even 1v1. I found as I leveled up, I could sustain my healing a little better, but that's because there are more heals, including the top of the tier of the healing talent tree. Once I hit the lvl 50 bracket, all that went out the window. You're lucky to last a few hits; you certainly can't sustain your own heals indefinitely. Even if you spam heal yourself, you can't do any dps at all, so how would you take them down? Even if I were battlemaster geared, I doubt I could completely heal myself AND out DPS the class I'm against in a 1v1, despite what some are claiming. (As others have mentioned, combat medic DPS is pretty pathetic anyway, we aren't exactly doing any real damage, and Hammer Shot heals make you stand out like a sore thumb so you get burned down so hard and fast in PVP anyway, but you're going to want to spam Hammer Shot as much as possible to build up your healing and use supercharged cell, which is now going to suck).

 

So let's look at the changes being made to troopers in general.

DPS changes:

1. Mortar Volley is reduced from 8 to 5 meters.

2. Charged Bolt gets reduced dmg and increased activation time (making it easier to interrupt as well).

3. Grav Round is also getting nerfed similarly.

So, we already know that DPS is getting nerfed, so healing is all we have left, right? Wong!

 

Looking over the healing changes, we are getting nerfed across the board. It's not just a gradual change. Virtually all of our healing abilities are getting nerfed. The only buff we're getting is to Kolto Bomb, which is actually getting nerfed because of the talent changes (future heals are buffed 3% instead of 5%).

 

Healing changes:

1. As others have discussed, it pretty much makes our class completely unviable as a healer.

2. You can't exactly switch to DPS spec because it's taking a hit as well.

3. So what's left for the trooper? Nothing. You might as well play an alt. It's sad because I loved the trooper so much that I even started a Vanguard, but it's not worth it to play the Vanguard either. I will already have trooper buffs from legacy system from my current lvl 50 commando, and Vanguards are taking a hit in the tanking department, so my Vanguard isn't looking very exciting right now.

 

Basically, I'm left with playing alts or un-subbing. My sub comes up in 3 days, and it's hard to stay subbed when so many of my friends have quit playing or hardly log on any more.

 

TL;DR: We don't really know WHY the changes were made. They are HUGE nerfs across the board that make the class unplayable. We've invested a lot of time into our characters for nothing now. Time to play alts or quit playing.

 

EDIT: I should add that I think the only change made should be the buff to Kolto Bomb affecting 4 people. Combat Medic was already the weakest healer to begin with. Keep healing/ammo the same, and just add in the Kolto Bomb player increase. We were never OP to begin with.

Edited March 18, 2012 by MasterCefalu

[MasterCefalu]

I forgot to mention that in many FPs or Ops, I've been asked to DPS a little while healing. We won't be able to heal at all since we'll be out of ammo before the mob gets below 80% health. How am I supposed to throw in some DPS as well?

[Fishcatch]

I'd add that I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore, but everyone else already has.So I'll just put forth my theory on why BW is undertaking this debaucle.

 

I think their logic is that Troopers have ammo regen that is "too good". That, if properly managed, we never run out of our resource. What I think they don't understand is that we have to work incredibly hard to be able to maintain that level of regen. Sure, a good Trooper healer will never run out of ammo... but neither will a sage, and you have to play them much less hard IMO to never run out of their resource. If this is about making content harder by weakening heals, here's an idea... just make content harder, with more complicated ops bosses. Nerfing healing classes will only outrage your player base and make them leave in droves.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Fishcatch

[Daecollo]

The changes to our reactive heal adding 2 ammo to it is ...

 

If your going to make it cost 2 Ammo.

 

- Increase Healing Amount Significantly (150%.)

- Allow it to be used on more then one target.

- Add a 20 Second Immunity to it. (Much like Sorcs Bubble.)

- Add a Cooldown of 4 Seconds to it.

 

 

Theres a little thing called: balance, your NERFS make commando unplayable.

 

 

 

OR:

 

 

Remove the Stacks. (make it have infinite stacks.)

Edited March 18, 2012 by Daecollo

[Soltrooper]

The changes to our reactive heal adding 2 ammo to it is ...

 

If your going to make it cost 2 Ammo.

 

- Increase Healing Amount Significantly (150%.)

- Allow it to be used on more then one target.

- Add a 20 Second Immunity to it. (Much like Sorcs Bubble.)

- Add a Cooldown of 4 Seconds to it.

 

 

Theres a little thing called: balance, your NERFS make commando unplayable.

 

 

 

OR:

 

 

Remove the Stacks. (make it have infinite stacks.)

 

You have the right idea. The stack mechanic means you don't need an immunity buff (if you rebuff too soon you would be really wasting ammo). Otherwise, yes, if the probe could be applied to multiple targets I could see an ammo cost being warranted. But as it stands it's just going to be that small buff at the start of combat that gets refreshed if at full ammo with no other heal target.

[Arakel]

If these changes are aimed at PVP, I can't really understand where they are coming from.

 

It is so easy to shut down a Merc/Commando healer - interrupt the Medical Probe/Scan and you reduce them to one small heal roughly every 6 seconds.

 

Sure, if you're a geared Merc/Commando facing poor players with terrible gear, I have no doubt you can live forever. But facing a decent group of players with equal gear, they'll shut you down so hard you'll probably get nothing off aside from the aoe heal and the instant cast 20 sec cooldown ability.

 

Every time I struggle to shut down/kill a healer, it isn't a Mercmando.

[SpaniardInfinity]

3. Is it about PVP balance? I heard some others mention it's about being able to heal yourself indefinitely. This is definitely not true. You will eventually run out of ammo, and a DPS class will take you down, even 1v1. I found as I leveled up, I could sustain my healing a little better, but that's because there are more heals, including the top of the tier of the healing talent tree. Once I hit the lvl 50 bracket, all that went out the window. You're lucky to last a few hits; you certainly can't sustain your own heals indefinitely. Even if you spam heal yourself, you can't do any dps at all, so how would you take them down? Even if I were battlemaster geared, I doubt I could completely heal myself AND out DPS the class I'm against in a 1v1, despite what some are claiming. (As others have mentioned, combat medic DPS is pretty pathetic anyway, we aren't exactly doing any real damage, and Hammer Shot heals make you stand out like a sore thumb so you get burned down so hard and fast in PVP anyway, but you're going to want to spam Hammer Shot as much as possible to build up your healing and use supercharged cell, which is now going to suck)..

 

Wanted to comment here, because I myself have (and I hope I don't need to start using that as past tense) become fond of PvP in this game. On my server I've earned enough of a reputation as a healer to earn at least one tank who is willing to guard me fairly closely. I can say that I heal an average of 300k per round minimum, and give the Sages on my server a run for their money in healing done (mind you, my damage done is always less than 75k because I spend the entirety of my time healing).

 

Standing just shy of War Hero at rank 69, I think I can say that my ability to heal is a function of how much time I am standing still versus the amount of time I spend on my a**. Yes, Combat Medic in 4/5ths Battlemaster (I opted to take Rakata gloves and Columi relics to beef up my HP a bit) is a very sturdy prescence in the battlefield. I can take a beating, and it's just as well since I do not have the privilege of choosing the rules of engagement. Unless facing a raw DPS and/or someone who is hastling me (CC/interrupt/throws/etc) I can normally heal myself against them. Sometimes even two if I have the cooldowns to burn. But never once during any of those fights can I afford to stop healing myself. The second I do is the second you win, because (pure) Combat Medic has poor DPS. Supercharged Cells grants some leeway towards DPS, but I much rather spend it on the healing power in such a situation.

 

As for healing multiple people, ammo management is alot like PvE content. There is a pretty good chance that in any battle in PvP there is more than one person needing healing. And every heal you need to cast pushes you that much further out of your rotation. There is a limit to how far we can be pushed, and its right around 6-7 ammo before the wheels come off. And keep in mind we're healing each person individually, since Kolto Bomb crits more frequently than it heals the person I wanted in a group of 4+, so our resources are burned that much faster.

 

So my final impression is this: Combat Medic currently has a small "grace" area for ammo management just shy of 8 ammo. The ammo regeneration is reduced, but at 7 and sometimes 6, we can still come back up to normal regeneration without burning cooldowns via some cheap abilities (ie. Hammershot heal or damage, Bacta Infusion, possibly a Kolto Bomb on the move).

 

After 1.2 this safety net will be gone because the effective cost of our heals has increased. On top of this, our healing is also doing less - specifically during supercharged phases. This means either means that budgeting ammo will be more challenging but doable, or it will push us into the territory of always being low on ammo. Faced with the choice, I sincerely hope it's the first one. My future as a Trooper healer sorta depends on it.

Edited March 18, 2012 by SpaniardInfinity

[Hylandugorn]

Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but the heal on Field Aid, not sure how much, is lost if you cleanse the person that's at 100% hp. So ammo cost and a potentially full or partially wasted heal?

[Bluetickone]

If these changes are aimed at PVP, I can't really understand where they are coming from.

 

It is so easy to shut down a Merc/Commando healer - interrupt the Medical Probe/Scan and you reduce them to one small heal roughly every 6 seconds.

 

Sure, if you're a geared Merc/Commando facing poor players with terrible gear, I have no doubt you can live forever. But facing a decent group of players with equal gear, they'll shut you down so hard you'll probably get nothing off aside from the aoe heal and the instant cast 20 sec cooldown ability.

 

Every time I struggle to shut down/kill a healer, it isn't a Mercmando.

 

Thank you. Too bad BW hasnt a *********** clue and wont listen...

[Decorus]

And sage/sorcerer still isn't getting nerfed? The ****?

 

They got ***** as well especially in heals.

 

1. We now take damage to recover power

2. Our low heal has a 60% crit rate bonus instead of 50% cost reduction

3. Our big heal has a 30% cost reduction instead of a 1 sec faster cast time.

Our low heal costs 50 power our high heal costs 55...

So now there is no real point in using the heal that heals for half the damage and now costs more... It also significantly reduces our ability to heal burst damage to pretty much nothing.

 

The current dps build was made unplayable which significantly decreases dps on Sorc/Sage.

 

So you weren't the only ones hurt its just not as obvious how badly they demolished the effectiveness of a Sorc/Sage.

[withonor]

This thread makes me laugh.

 

People whined and whined and whined because they weren't Sages. I tried to talk some sense into people who complained before they even tried healing like a Commando, but they were dead set on being spell for spell the same as Sages. These changes don't exactly do that, but "beware what you wish for."

 

The game the way it is, I am 10/10 Nightmare with timed Nightmare KP done. I never had any problems healing and I carried some Ops, usually when a sage was the other healer versus a Scoundrel. I never even did Hardmode Ops. Doing all Nightmare stuff in Columi.

 

These changes will take some adjusting, but they're doable. I'll make it work. They do make us a slightly weaker healer compared to our previous selves, but I accept that challenge. Things were getting too easy. If they fix the bugs in Ops, there won't be any problems. Healing through the bugs with these changes will definately be more difficult.

 

Everyone who prefers whining, try to learn YOUR class instead of trying to match up 1for1 with another class. Bad players are bad and perfect game balance won't cure it.

[Beyoncia]

The changes to our reactive heal adding 2 ammo to it is ...

 

If your going to make it cost 2 Ammo.

 

- Increase Healing Amount Significantly (150%.)

- Allow it to be used on more then one target.

- Add a 20 Second Immunity to it. (Much like Sorcs Bubble.)

- Add a Cooldown of 4 Seconds to it.

 

 

 

Immunity is a very bad idea. Cooldown matter only if you can use it on more then one target. Actualy i would like to see this spell similar to eq2 clerics reactive-small cd, average power cost, triger every time you recive damage, can put on as many ppl as you like.

Increasing amo cost with 3 sec internal cd between triggers don't make sence. I don't see why ppl so disapoint with it, 2 amo(16 heat) every 30 sec not a big deal with full resource pull, and if you short on amo you simplay will not cast it, because derect heal with x10 heal ammount>this in critical situation. I can see only one reason why BW doing it-to prevent fast switching on different targets in pvp. But again, this make no sence, ppl just will not cast this at all during fight. Make it 2 amo, but remove 3 sec cd and all be fine.

Also group reactive would be nice:) But, then, sages need group ward:p

 

And ofc we need incombat rez, every healer should have it. Especially if 2/3 healing capable classes have it. If you fear about balance, make it 20+ talant in heal tree. Can do same for every class. No doubt dps sages/scoundrells will only thank you:)

 

Interupt is nice, but we don't realy need it. We have good dps to deal with mobs when soloing, and in group/raid content we have better things to do.

[withonor]

Not sure if anyone mentioned it, but the heal on Field Aid, not sure how much, is lost if you cleanse the person that's at 100% hp. So ammo cost and a potentially full or partially wasted heal?

 

Only things worth cleansing are the DoTs that do significant damage, which means they will definately have taken damage. A debuff that causes someone to take more damage would only be beneficial to cleanse if they were actually taking damage, so they will need a heal as well as a cleanse.

 

Your scenario is only applicable if you're not experienced with the fight, and there should be a learning curve.