1.2 PTS Test Notes (Shadow)

[Aariok]

It's been broken since day 1, yet all of us have really had no problems at all levelling with the "broken" Project.

 

IMO, buffing it as per the Shadow's Training amounts, would be horribly broken.

Infils and KC's bursting for 10k Projects? Umm....yeah, no.

 

It's fine where is it currently.

 

I disagree entirely. It needs to be fixed. even if it were to be toned down to 15% or something. it's just rediculous that every other advanced class gets some sort of buff with their training, whereas ours does not.

[Aaramis]

I disagree entirely. It needs to be fixed. even if it were to be toned down to 15% or something. it's just rediculous that every other advanced class gets some sort of buff with their training, whereas ours does not.

 

Well then that's agreeing with me that the alloted amounts it claims it should be boost would be overpowered.

 

+15% I can deal with. That's fine, and might be a nice little boost.

But come on, how many of us have actually missed it and felt we were severely underperforming? Anyone?

[Anelyn]

You are missing the point, I think. Is kinetic dmg, +25% dmg will surely help vs heavy armor a lot, so that you don't go tickle tickle as deception / inf if your discharge doesn't crit, since maul / shadow strike proc is on 10s timer, and again, if it doesn't crit, is another tickle. All dps need to be able to do some consistent damage on a tank.

 

Project / shock is supposed to be a costly spike dmg move *even for infil / deception outside of procs, let's face it if you are out of melee range you will still use shock / project even without the melee procs because is one of your few ranged dmg options).

 

Is same with overload shot for operatives, they get (supposedly) a 25% passive dmg boost for being operatives instead of snipers. If is working or not, that's another discussion :>

 

Why do you think balance / madness specs almost completely ignore project / shock in their rotations outside of keeping the melee dmg bonus buff up? Is too costly and the dmg is not comparable to doublestrike (kinetic / energy same reduced by armor), and it costs less force and also can proc stuff.

[RobNightfall]

*sigh*..

Apparently there are no place for pure Kinetic tree in PvP..

It`s relatively useless now.

 

Being a tank in PvP you can`t do an acceptable level of damage and you are suffer from «missile spammers» that are easily bringing down your health bar despite all shields and defense abils.. All you can do is running around and annoy enemies, while correspondingly geared healers and heavy armored classes can just ignore you.. It`s just silly when you run around them swinging lightsaber no more than to entertain them..

 

To be usefull in PvP shadow tanks should make a hybrid like 23/0/18 and dress up in Stalker gear..

 

Pure Kinetic is useless in PvP..

 

Shadow shields should at least have to be able to deflect force/powertech attacks..

 

You're doing something wrong if this is the case for you. I don't know what it is, but you're definitely doing something wrong. I suck up punishment like a sponge and can reliably kill everything but bounty hunters. People may dismiss me at the beginning of PvP matches if they don't know me but they are focusing me, frequently ahead of healers, by the end of the match.

[RobNightfall]

Erm... well. Asking for changes now is a mistake.

 

If you have bothered to REALLY check the changes on other classes you will understand the 2 goals pursued (I have still pending a good checkout on Sentinel changes, btw, and I'm not speaking about sitting there reading the notes... I refer to really see the new changes in action):

 

- Increase Attention to Resource Management.

 

- Kill Hybrids.

 

 

I hope that you understand why Shadows aren't included... It happened for us already.

 

 

BW is throwing a Tactical Warhead to the balance status of the game on 1.2... Would you like to be catched on the shockwave? Or seek cover to survive it to look around how the battlefield is shaped... And then ask for the right changes to adapt to the new scenario?

 

 

It's better to ask for the right changes, believe me, because what's problem now can be an advantage later...

 

...I don't want to play a FOTM class, even by accident.

 

In addition to this, they seem to be weakening healing considerably and making sure no one class is better at healing overall then the others.

[Xinika]

In addition to this, they seem to be weakening healing considerably and making sure no one class is better at healing overall then the others.

 

Curious to see how this works out.

[ragamer]

Curious to see how this works out.

 

Weakening healing is not the best term...

 

...Weakeing sustained healing is the best short way to describe it.

 

Commandos sustainable cycle outputs less healing (Put closer to the Smuggler capabilities)...

 

Sages can't avoid draining their full bar if they try to go full HPS. Additionally, for them, the slow, but efficient, heal stays as a slow heal (They can't boost its casting speed to 1.5s any longer)... This is probably the biggest impact for PvP as Sages/Inqs willl be more vulnerable to interruption if they try to use the slow heal.

[OysterCatcherr]

Weakening healing is not the best term...

 

...Weakeing sustained healing is the best short way to describe it.

 

Commandos sustainable cycle outputs less healing (Put closer to the Smuggler capabilities)...

 

Sages can't avoid draining their full bar if they try to go full HPS. Additionally, for them, the slow, but efficient, heal stays as a slow heal (They can't boost its casting speed to 1.5s any longer)... This is probably the biggest impact for PvP as Sages/Inqs willl be more vulnerable to interruption if they try to use the slow heal.

 

You know all healers are actually getting a 10-15% boost in healing just from the increase in expertise, right? Expertise should be buffing healing by about 25% post-1.2 rather than the 10-13% it buffs it right now.

 

THat should offset any nerfs to the healing classes and, if anything, buff them by a considerable amount.

[arkzehhh]

Both of our DPS trees need help and they choose to do nothing. I really did not see a nerf coming to KC because it's still the worst tank. I'm disappointed. They're forcing us to go KC or scrape by with Balance. Both of which, are easily replaced.

 

They need too sort Deception/Infiltration out, its weak both survivability wise and Burst/flow of damage, might reroll rather then be the 2 minute wonder BW seem too want us all too be.

[dronepilot]

Infiltration really need to be worked on. Its just not doing much for PVP, at the moment. Not to mention the animation bugs I have, with Clairvoyant strike, and Spinning strike. It really screws up my work in PVP.

[ragamer]

You know all healers are actually getting a 10-15% boost in healing just from the increase in expertise, right? Expertise should be buffing healing by about 25% post-1.2 rather than the 10-13% it buffs it right now.

 

THat should offset any nerfs to the healing classes and, if anything, buff them by a considerable amount.

 

- You know that the increase on expertise will not be there until you farm the new gear and that for most players it will be nerfed initially (less than 300 expertise curve has been nerfed). In particular check how carefully the "turning point" has been chosen in regard of some popular "PvP + PvE" hybrid gear recommendations.

 

- Are you also aware that you can heal yourself for 10000000 million points and you still be screwed if you can't sustain it for more than 20 seconds? Most healing on PvP is pure overheal... The key concepts are how fast you can heal yourself between movement phases (ie avoiding interruptions) and how often you are forced to take a break to regen your resource bar.

 

- Have you seen ANY confimation on PTS that Expertise is STILL affecting damage increase, damage decrease and healing increase in the same way as now? Zeller has repeatedly warned ppl about the changes on the underlying mechanics on PvP in 1.2. I still haven't found a decent post from a decent tester that has checked in detail if this is the case (And I mean checking... Reading tooltips is something any1 can do).

Edited March 21, 2012 by ragamer

[Boarg]

Ok..

Then i have one more question about gearing.. Why is PvE and PvP gear are so unequal?

My current gear is mostly a columi PvE (tier 2 gear) and while i have a lot of PvP tier 2 commendations i can`t force myself to trade PvE gear for a PvP one.. I`ll suffer from a great loss of stats if i do so.. Something of -200 Willpower and -160 Endurance points for a +500 Expertise gain.. Is expertise really worth it? What i gain?

+10% of damage? But damage is already not the stat to look for a Tank..

+10% of defense? Hmm..

 

Just now i wait till i hit 60Valor to start gearing in BM armor.. I was unpleasantly surprised by increased Valor points requirement to level up after Valor 50lvl hit.. And begin to consider to dress up in a Tier 2 PvP gear.. But is it really worth it?

 

The Expertise really is better in a PvP environment. It doesn't completely obliterate PvE gear because of having reduced primary stats like you mention...but it is better nearly all the time.

 

For example, that ~200 Willpower isn't going to give you 10% more damage. That ~160 Endurance isn't going to make you as survivable as taking 10% less damage. And even with a smaller health pool, healers will have an easier time healing you, since you are taking less damage. And the same thing for your self heals, in addition to them being boosted 10% themselves.

 

The other elephant in the room is I would expect your Columi PvE gear as a Kinetic player is tank gear with tank stats & mods. Defense and Shield stats in PvP environment have very low value because player characters use tons of Force/Tech attacks that bypass them completely. For general purpose PvP, a Kinetic player is much better off with mostly Stalker gear and 4-set Survivor with all the enhancements swapped out for Stalker Enhancements. (Short CD Spinning Kick and +5% damage for guarding someone is pretty awesome.) Picking up those PvP items gives you a good opportunity to optimally gear for PvP without screwing up your PvE gear set.

[Boarg]

You know all healers are actually getting a 10-15% boost in healing just from the increase in expertise, right? Expertise should be buffing healing by about 25% post-1.2 rather than the 10-13% it buffs it right now.

 

THat should offset any nerfs to the healing classes and, if anything, buff them by a considerable amount.

 

People in current PvP gear will be only looking at 1-2 extra % points in Expertise going from old formula to new formula. Going to new gear + new formula will generally get them ~5-6 extra % points from expertise, combined.

 

It's enough to matter, but fundamental mechanics changes will generally overshadow it. People would have to have 1400 expertise to get the 25% you mention.

[DarthOvertone]

Have you seen ANY confimation on PTS that Expertise is STILL affecting damage increase, damage decrease and healing increase in the same way as now? Zeller has repeatedly warned ppl about the changes on the underlying mechanics on PvP in 1.2. I still haven't found a decent post from a decent tester that has checked in detail if this is the case (And I mean checking... Reading tooltips is something any1 can do).

 

I would also like to know about this. What I've heard from peeps on the PTS is that stacking more Expertise is critical now. Whatever underlying mechanics changed, it seems the more, the better even more in 1.2 than present for Expertise. Would like to get some sort of verification on this though.

 

Combat Logs will tell us a lot in this regard. Still haven't heard of a good 3rd party parser for the logs though.

[Mathai]

You're doing something wrong if this is the case for you. I don't know what it is, but you're definitely doing something wrong. I suck up punishment like a sponge and can reliably kill everything but bounty hunters. People may dismiss me at the beginning of PvP matches if they don't know me but they are focusing me, frequently ahead of healers, by the end of the match.

 

Indeed. It's funny to see how 4 sorcs cast all their lightning stuff at you and you just click resilience and resist it all completely. but who said we suck in PVP? kinetic shadow is the only class that can defend a turret or a door alone long enough for help to come. Also, it's the best to guard a snetinel and work in a pair. both have incredible-self heal, sentinel will do the damage , and you slow enemies down, cc them and mitigate the incoming damage. You don't need to do 300k damage, 80-120k will be yuor average.

[sonarghost]

 

Being a tank in PvP you can`t do an acceptable level of damage and you are suffer from «missile spammers» that are easily bringing down your health bar despite all shields and defense abils.. All you can do is running around and annoy enemies, while correspondingly geared healers and heavy armored classes can just ignore you.. It`s just silly when you run around them swinging lightsaber no more than to entertain them..

 

To be usefull in PvP shadow tanks should make a hybrid like 23/0/18 and dress up in Stalker gear..

 

Pure Kinetic is useless in PvP..

 

Shadow shields should at least have to be able to deflect force/powertech attacks..

 

This may be information that you may already know, but just in case you don't, Just use one of your 4 interrupts to stop the missile spam.

[Xinika]

This may be information that you may already know, but just in case you don't, Just use one of your 4 interrupts to stop the missile spam.

 

You're so cute.