Okay, help me understand the balance here.

[Asphen]

I bought a Battlemaster Staff for Kira Carsen, and I was really surprised on how much more damage it deals than my own Battlemaster Sabre. I'll provide a reference screenshot

 

 

Battlemaster Staff vs Battlemaster Sabre: http://oi43.tinypic.com/2qd7tpt.jpg

 

 

In the screenshot, you can see that the staff deals 61-92 more base damage than our main hand weapon.

 

 

So say huh? they get this, a Shield Generator, and 5% extra defense on top of that? I really don't understand...

 

- Our dual wield damage is affected by impressively low accuracy, really lowing the damage of having a dual wield sword anyways.

- Many of our attacks don't even allow us to or consider our off-hand weapon in the damage calculation.

 

 

So I'm just really at a loss here. Could I have the option to equip Staff + Shield Generator please? Honestly asking here, if there is something in the balance I'm missing in this, I'd like to know what it is.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Asphen

[Psybin]

Aye is something I've noticed for a while..

 

If that annoys you, check out: Battlemaster Eliminators Cannon...

[Daoshifu]

Did some math there:

base dmg of both battlemaster main and offhand for sent i s 306-459 dmg

 

Which gives us (on talented 66% offhand dmg) 507-661 dmg (306-459 + 66% offhand)

which in comparison to the dbl saber's 367-551 looks pale.

 

All of this of course when we count both wpns.

[Psybin]

You are ignoring the massive accuracy penalty there.

 

But the point remains a good one.. If our our mainhand hit 30% harder, just imagine how horrifically over powered we would be...

[Creslan]

The weapons all need to be reworked damage wise.

 

Pistols do more damage than riffles and single sabers.

 

The following are at Champion/Columni gear levels.

Right now its:

 

Single saber: 302-453

Double saber: 363-544

Riffle: 302-453

Pistol: 264-491

Shotgun: 305-509

Assault Cannon: 317-589

 

I'm not sure where they got thier numbers but they seem a bit awkward. The ranges and max damage are odd for what one would think.

 

I would like to see them release a "short saber" similar to KOTOR, one that increase the accuracy with off-hand attacks.

[Asphen]

Did some math there:

base dmg of both battlemaster main and offhand for sent i s 306-459 dmg

 

Which gives us (on talented 66% offhand dmg) 507-661 dmg (306-459 + 66% offhand)

which in comparison to the dbl saber's 367-551 looks pale.

 

All of this of course when we count both wpns.

 

 

 

That's spending 2 talent points, not counting the off hand accuracy penalty, *nor* are you counting that many of our attacks don't even count having a off hand weapon.

 

 

Plus really, you forgot to add a Shield Generator in your math.

[Daoshifu]

That's spending 2 talent points, not counting the off hand accuracy penalty, *nor* are you counting that many of our attacks don't even count having a off hand weapon.

 

 

Plus really, you forgot to add a Shield Generator in your math.

 

I din't forget anything i just compared the base damge we get from all weapons we have to all the weapons of the shadow (unless the shield generator has dmg stats but i never noticed it)

 

And i din't say anything about accuracy. So, Yes I'm not counting it.

 

Again I just compared base dmage.

[Mal-Sharran]

1.) That's spending 2 talent points, 2.) not counting the off hand accuracy penalty, 3.) *nor* are you counting that many of our attacks don't even count having a off hand weapon.

 

 

4.) Plus really, you forgot to add a Shield Generator in your math.

 

1.) Everybody puts a minimum of 2 points into DWM, I personally have 3. You can't skip this talent unless you're exceptionally bad.

 

2.) If our off hand attack had as much accuracy as our main hand, we would be op.

 

3.) You realize that every attack we make utilizes our offhand weapon correct? Go read the tooltips.

 

Virtually every single one.

 

Strike. Zealous Strike. Slash. Merciless Slash. Leg Slash. Master Strike. Cyclone Slash.

 

The only ones that do not mention in the tooltip specifically that they utilize both are: Cauterize (although the animation clearly uses both) and Precision Strike (which I don't currently have so I can't comment on it).

 

Everything else in our arsenal is not weapon based. That means that when we DO land a strike with both weapons, you're hitting full power with your main hand and 66% of 453 with your off hand. That's a total of 453 MH + 299 OH = 752. Is this math perfect? Who knows I suck at math. But still, as a Sentinel we use our off hand allllllll the time.

 

4.) And the shield generator is just a stat stick, it doesn't get utilized for damage, it just gives base stats. If we got a stat stick in our off hand and others didn't, we would have an unfair advantage.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Mal-Sharran

[MrSteak]

Lower accuracy, lower total armor. It's a noticable, but small, jump in DPS for a sacrifice in survivability, which we still totally have.

 

Not exactly a big deal if you play PVP warzones in teams like you're supposed to instead of being a cowboy.

[Evixy]

In all fairness, they should buff base offhand accuracy to the same base accuracy as the mainhand and balance the dmg accordingly. Tired of having my offhand be parried when I don't want it too -.- RNG ftl.

[Mal-Sharran]

In all fairness, they should buff base offhand accuracy to the same base accuracy as the mainhand and balance the dmg accordingly. Tired of having my offhand be parried when I don't want it too -.- RNG ftl.

 

I honestly wouldn't mind this solution, rng in damage dealing is ftl.

[Evixy]

I honestly wouldn't mind this solution, rng in damage dealing is ftl.

 

Its not even OP, just makes more sense. Of course this would apply for gunslingers and mercenarys as well since they also dual wield.

[Daoshifu]

you guys know what is even more fun?

 

If you compare gunslinger's dual pistols to sniper's sniper rifle

 

guns: 268-497

rifles: 413-505

 

(mirror?)

[Asphen]

1.) Everybody puts a minimum of 2 points into DWM, I personally have 3. You can't skip this talent unless you're exceptionally bad.

 

2.) If our off hand attack had as much accuracy as our main hand, we would be op.

 

3.) You realize that every attack we make utilizes our offhand weapon correct? Go read the tooltips.

 

Virtually every single one.

 

Strike. Zealous Strike. Slash. Merciless Slash. Leg Slash. Master Strike. Cyclone Slash.

 

The only ones that do not mention in the tooltip specifically that they utilize both are: Cauterize (although the animation clearly uses both) and Precision Strike (which I don't currently have so I can't comment on it).

 

Everything else in our arsenal is not weapon based. That means that when we DO land a strike with both weapons, you're hitting full power with your main hand and 66% of 453 with your off hand. That's a total of 453 MH + 299 OH = 752. Is this math perfect? Who knows I suck at math. But still, as a Sentinel we use our off hand allllllll the time.

 

4.) And the shield generator is just a stat stick, it doesn't get utilized for damage, it just gives base stats. If we got a stat stick in our off hand and others didn't, we would have an unfair advantage.

 

 

Have you never fought an Assassin Tank? I'd consider a shield generator more than a 'stat stick'

 

Yes, Bladestorm, Force Sweep, Force Statis are force/tech, however...

 

I'd consider Force Leap, Dispatch, Crippling Throw common attacks for us. I don't think Force Leap / Dispatch / Crippling throw are force/tech, I believe they are weapon damage. Those aren't using the off hand weapon. They are main hand only. If that's true I'd still much rather have a staff + shield generator.

 

 

It might be a small change, but getting Force Leap to include the off hand in the attack would be very nice. Zealous Leap uses both weapons, so it wouldn't be much effort for Bioware to enable Dual Wielding Force Leaps.

 

 

 

 

*** You are still a bad Sentinel player for not using Riposte.***

[Asphen]

you guys know what is even more fun?

 

If you compare gunslinger's dual pistols to sniper's sniper rifle

 

guns: 268-497

rifles: 413-505

 

(mirror?)

 

 

That may not be that wonky if the Gunslinger is only getting 30% damage from his 2nd pistol.

 

Oh yeah, (268 to 497) x2 damage would be wayyy better, but I doubt that's what happening.

[EclatDeGivre]

Well it would be interesting to compare with sort of equivalent generators/secondary weapon.

 

Indeed most of our attacks use both weapons base dmg. Most, not all :

 

Blade Storm, Dispatch, Cauterize DOT (it seems that the initial damage is affected), Crippling throw, OS DOT

 

All of these do not appear to benefit from dual wielding (I say do not appear based on the effect details of Torhead.) in terms of base dmg.

 

If these skills are confirmed as main hand base dmg only, then yeah we do suffer from a loss. If they do not use any of our base dmg then no problem. If they benefit from both our sabers then I guess it is balanced.

 

If someone can give the mechanics involved here it would clarify everything but in the mean time, we can but wait and see.

[EclatDeGivre]

Sry double post didn't see the answers.

 

Yeah I forgot Force Sweep where it is still unknown whether or not Dual wielding works.

 

However Force Leap does seem to ignore dual wielding

 

Force Leap

 

WeaponDamage: StandardHealthPercentMin=>0.091, Slots=>[ PrimaryMelee ], StandardHealthPercentMax=>0.091, Coefficient=>0.91, FlurryBlowsMax=>1, AmountModifierPercent=>-0.39, IgnoreDualWieldModifier=>1, FlurryBlowsMin=>1, IsSpecialAbility=>1

[nachoman_randy]

The offhand saber also dont get bonus damage from str and power.

 

I would like it did.

[PantsOn]

The offhand saber also dont get bonus damage from str and power.

 

I would like it did.

 

So you want to be the most overpowered class in the history of MMOs? K.

[Garrum]

So you want to be the most overpowered class in the history of MMOs? K.

 

If it got a 2000% boost over what the main hand gets, then you might have a leg to stand on, but I highly doubt even full (matching the main hand) contribution from str and power would put sents in the realm of the true OP classes in history. Kill-you-while-I'm-naked-and-using-a-white-dagger rogues spring to mind as a shining example of an OP class. Blood DK doesn't want you to forget him either. Pre nerf operative/scoundrel 100-0 in 3 attacks from stealth also pokes his head in.

 

The damage would be OP, but not like some of the nonsense we have seen in this and other games.

[nachoman_randy]

So you want to be the most overpowered class in the history of MMOs? K.

 

Dunno where that came from.

 

You could add the normal weapon damage + bonus damage and then reduce it by the off hand penalty.

 

As it stands now is just weapon damage and then reduced.