Vaipyr Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Look at any tournament in any game and tell me that the players did not play to have the highest gear available. ... Look at any tournament in any game and tell me that gear wasn't normalized between the players. Hmmm.. GW: Gear didn't matter, duh WoW: Arena championships (filmed) were all done with premade gearsets that everyone had to use. IE: Same gear across the board AoC Duel tourney's: Standardized gearsets were set up before the tournaments with no substitutions. Fact is in any COMPETITIVE venue for this kind of stuff the gear is standardized so that everyone is on a level playing field and it's only skill that determines the winner. Dunno what world you live in where at the nascar championships some guys are given rabbits to race in while others are given their stock car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RealAeiouy Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 The only reason this post is successful and not trolled are because all of the real PVPers left this game long ago. I for one just play the game sparingly but to say that real PVPers do not care about progression is a downright lie. Look at any tournament in any game and tell me that the players did not play to have the highest gear available. I know everyone wants to live in this world where we all play for fun and laughs but that is not true. But yes keep thinking that you are amazing pvpers.....at least in this game you will be safe with that lie. You are wrong. What tournaments are you talking about where they have big gear balances. Pvp players have always wanted to just get to the fighting. When pvp gear didn't exist it meant pveing just enough so you could go pvp. This is integral to the pvp spirit and soul. Pvp is enjoyed because people like fighting other players directly. Gear progression is a direct impediment to that enjoyment. Your implication that all the real pvpers left is absurd but it is dwarfed by the implication any percentage of them want persistant stat progression. Nobody who is competitive in anything wants an unbalanced game board. You don't become good at pvp without being competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariuszPol Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 The faster people recognize that Bioware has figured out this one simple truism the faster they will understand why PvP gear is being further separated from PvE gear and being made easier to acquire. True hardcore PvPers don't much care for the gear grind and they don't much care for gear disparities. Similarly, true hardcore PvPers don't like one-sided fights. This is why highly skilled individuals and teams seek out other highly skilled individuals and teams to test themselves against. The concept of "progression" is lost on the hardcore PvP base. They don't want to "progress" their character, they want to improve themselves. Shiny gear, cool mounts, abilities that animate differently, social abilities, non-combat pets, titles, and other such interesting but ultimately frivolous rewards are all the hardcore PvP crowd needs. Such needless things are called "trophies", and they exist in real life too. True hardcore PvPers want to step into an encounter where gear and statistics are level out of the gate. That way, when they beat the other team they can say they simply played better. Bioware is slowing coming to realize that the gear-based PvP model that World of Warcraft introduced to MMOs is toxic and soul-killing. They are starting to realize that the best model is to separate PvP gear from PvE gear, make the PvP gear easy to acquire, and let player skill -- not time invested -- be the determining factor in a PvP encounter's victor. Pure and simple. Gear gap make us "grind" our gear so WE CAN HAVE FUN while we WANT TO HAVE FUN now. Simple as that. Also there is nothing to learn when enemy 3-shot you but there is when guy in equal gear put you down without problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LenrocNewDawn Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I've started this thread a while back with solutions for this very problem. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=347154. Got no real feed-back as you guys were busy calling each other scrubs. I see you are still busy with it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helig Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) The only reason this post is successful and not trolled are because all of the real PVPers left this game long ago. I for one just play the game sparingly but to say that real PVPers do not care about progression is a downright lie. Look at any tournament in any game and tell me that the players did not play to have the highest gear available. I know everyone wants to live in this world where we all play for fun and laughs but that is not true. But yes keep thinking that you are amazing pvpers.....at least in this game you will be safe with that lie. I only care about *player* progression. Back in WoW TBC, I had one of the few high-rated teams with a class setup that people would laugh at. How did we do it? Simple, really. We played under the pretense of being at a massive disadvantage, and we knew that to win, we'd have to be not just better, but *much* better than the opposing team. We practised a lot. Trial and error, trial and error. And hey, one day we found out that were in a high-pop server's top 3. We didn't give a flying frak about gear (although it was necessary to compete at top ratings, but it came in the process). We cared about being better. Than other players. Than ourselves a moment ago. That is the spirit of PvP progression. Maybe it's you who is "downright lying". Perhaps not to us, but to yourself. Edited March 16, 2012 by Helig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proppa Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I guess I'll be joining the "see you in GW2" part lol. I never played WoW, it started off with only PvE which had no appeal to me what so ever. Since I didn't get into it from the start, I never did. I played DAOC and console games like COD and BF. DAOC had Realm Rank/Titles and a website to show the top earners. All of these games, asside from latency skill often plays a large part. Coming top on the leaderboards was what I played for. I could care less about the gear, the fact that time played is meant to show skill... Sure I can spend 12 hours a day, doing warzones, losing but still get the commendations to buy champ bags. But there is no skill in that. And like I said, those who played 1 toon for a long period are at an advantage. I decided to re-roll from Empire to Republic, as on my server it was probably a 3/1 ratio atleast. So we'd roll up to the Rep gates and just pull people down and kill them in seconds, get our dailys/weeklies down then leave. At the moment, this game does nothing to help fresh 50's. For those of you who have been 50 for 2months, the game is FAR easier for you than it is fresh 50's. As the game progresses, the more full BM opponents there become. The more BM opponents you face, the higher chance of them winning. On Ilum, the Empire on my server will just camp central all the time with 2x the Rep numbers. So the Republic stood almost no chance of completing the ilum challenges. Whilst the empire were completing it and getting gear faster. Now, 3 months into the game. That imbalance has come to light. It's much harder to be competative with a 20%+ advantage via expertise. If you think any ammount of skill can make up for that your kidding yourself. I wonder, how many of these "I like the gear grind" actually play Empire? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulltramagns Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) Then i'll see you in gw2 i suppose. PvP is an afterthought in this game. The so called "ranked" warzones are nothing more than a solo rank number. BORING. This is a joke. Atleast make another tier of gear to work towards that's only lilke 5% better than warhero gear that takes high rating to achieve. If you honestly beleive that a 5% gear advantage is holding you back then you have bigger problems to worry about, Creating a tier of gear like that makes everyone think that they have to do the rated matches or get stomped just trying to do casual pvp. Also it just gets to the point where higher rated people have better gear then the people who are trying to climb up in rating, its an uphill battle. Edited March 22, 2012 by Paralassa content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravenolf Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Then i'll see you in gw2 i suppose. PvP is an afterthought in this game. The so called "ranked" warzones are nothing more than a solo rank number. BORING. This is a joke. Atleast make another tier of gear to work towards that's only lilke 5% better than warhero gear that takes high rating to achieve. If you honestly beleive that a 5% gear advantage is holding you back then you have bigger problems to worry about, If 5% is meaningless, then why have it at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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