Over Powered healing killing PvP

[MartyrLXXVII]

Your premise is invalid because 1 year later the dps won't be doing 1000 damage he will be doing 1400 damage while healing won't scale as well and would do 1200 healing (made up numbers).

 

This shows a graph of how poorly healing scales compared to dps.

http://www.jedilace.com/2012/02/02/primary-and-secondary-attribute-scaling/

 

Fair poimt, but it still doesn't work based off just that.

 

BWs sole reason for creating trauma was because healing was at such a high level to heal through bosses that is was -imbalanced- for pvp. Now with higher levels of expertise incoming we will be almost erasing trauma, if not completely so.

 

So we have a stat significantly impacting something that its sole purpose was balancing healing, main stat is meaningless in that light.

[Arkerus]

Any game that allows a single healer to outheal a DPS is basically unbalanced. Theoretically you can add any number of healers and any number of DPS (e.g. 4 healer vs 4 dps) and the healers will always eventually win because healers still have damage abilities.

 

Combine that fact with guard specs in this game and healers are nearly unstoppable.

 

I have seen many, many WZs where the enemy team has 3 healers and a couple tanks and they are literally invincible. Against a team of DPS, healer/tank combos win every time. SWTOR further pushes this fact because all classes have damage capabilities. This ensures that normally weak attackers like tanks still kill dps.

 

I feel there is some balancing that needs to be done in WZs whether it be an automatic 20% healing debuff or a tank/healer limit.

[Orangerascal]

Fair poimt, but it still doesn't work based off just that.

 

BWs sole reason for creating trauma was because healing was at such a high level to heal through bosses that is was -imbalanced- for pvp. Now with higher levels of expertise incoming we will be almost erasing trauma, if not completely so.

 

So we have a stat significantly impacting something that its sole purpose was balancing healing, main stat is meaningless in that light.

 

My advice ... Damage and Healing are where Bioware want's it to be, 1 year from now, because of the nature of mmo's, it will be reblanced. Who knows they might change Trauma to 50%, they might night. Developers balance (or should balance) for end game gear. There is no doubt that the 1.2 balance changes done with regards to war hero gear.

 

Also, expertise is a Trauma reduction, so 1 year from now when you have a 50% expertise bonus, Trauma reduction would only benefit from a fraction of that since you can't reduce Trauma past 30%

 

So in your 1 year from now scenario dps will be double dipping in the gains while healing won't.

 

1) From Primary and Secondary Coefficients

2) From Expertise over 30% not affecting healing

 

Any game that allows a single healer to outheal a DPS is basically unbalanced. Theoretically you can add any number of healers and any number of DPS (e.g. 4 healer vs 4 dps) and the healers will always eventually win because healers still have damage abilities.

 

Healing will always > DPS because if not there would be no reason to incorporate healing into the team. 8 dps teams will rule the fields and the game would be very linear.

 

In your 4 healer vs 4 dps scenario. The 4 dps will always win because healing is a reactive trait while damage is an active trait. Healing an indamaged player does nothing. Eventually random variance will eventually kill 1 healer in a pug.

 

Focus fire will global healers in a premade.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Pistols]

Lots of stuff

 

LEARN TO INTERRUPT!!!!

 

Seriously amazing how many peeps do not get it.

[MartyrLXXVII]

My advice ... Damage and Healing are where Bioware want's it to be, 1 year from now, because of the nature of mmo's, it will be reblanced. Who knows they might change Trauma to 50%, they might night. Developers balance (or should balance) for end game gear. There is no doubt that the 1.2 balance changes done with regards to war hero gear.

 

Also, expertise is a Trauma reduction, so 1 year from now when you have a 50% expertise bonus, Trauma reduction would only benefit from a fraction of that since you can't reduce Trauma past 30%

 

So in your 1 year from now scenario dps will be double dipping in the gains while healing won't.

 

1) From Primary and Secondary Coefficients

2) From Expertise over 30% not affecting healing

 

Let's not even

 

Lol a year from now they could change trauma. What sense does that make when trauma will be null and void 2 weeks after 1.2. Not only did they ease the diminishing return but almost doubled expertise on the pvp gear, so its not going to be hard to have 20%, I don't know of course bit thinking 30%+ should be quite attainable too.

 

How about we focus on the hear and now instead of looking at the far distant future.

[kweassa]

Any game that allows a single healer to outheal a DPS is basically unbalanced. Theoretically you can add any number of healers and any number of DPS (e.g. 4 healer vs 4 dps) and the healers will always eventually win because healers still have damage abilities.

 

Combine that fact with guard specs in this game and healers are nearly unstoppable.

 

I have seen many, many WZs where the enemy team has 3 healers and a couple tanks and they are literally invincible. Against a team of DPS, healer/tank combos win every time. SWTOR further pushes this fact because all classes have damage capabilities. This ensures that normally weak attackers like tanks still kill dps.

 

I feel there is some balancing that needs to be done in WZs whether it be an automatic 20% healing debuff or a tank/healer limit.

 

There is nothing wrong with a team with healers, defeating a team without one.

 

A team with tanks and heals is by itself a more balanced team configuration, than a team of DPS which is unstable and lopsided in terms of team composition.

 

If a team that is better constituted with a mix of tanks and healers, is hard pressed to defeat just a bunch of glass cannons, then that's bad balance, not the other way around.

 

 

Get your concept of 'balance' straight first, before commenting this game has bad balance.

[kyuyu]

Some of the healers' responses are hilarious.

 

You can heal among your dps in range. When a dps try to target you, you use line of sight or kite. Don't stand there like idiot unless you are merc/commando healers. When the said dpsers try to chase you, your team should kill them easily since they are extending themselves out of their teammates. There are abundance of pillars also for you to get out of line of sight to avoid ranged dps.

 

Also I leveled my sage as pure seer and it's the easiest spec to level. Use a dps companion, solo 2-man heroics.

[vulup]

LEARN TO INTERRUPT!!!!

 

Seriously amazing how many peeps do not get it.

 

against two healers? and i have four ways to interrputs a heal - one will fail due to a cc break which means a healer will get a heal off. And a healer's resolve bar will be full leaving my with a interrupt every 8 seconds after that. Can't get a heal off in 8 seconds?

 

They can also just switch to another heal if i lock them out of it

 

It will be a little easier come patch because my 8 sec interrupt wont use rage but hell everything else still does

 

and they also have cc and/or ways to get away, los me and heal

 

I will kill a dumb healer, every other healer will just survive me

 

yeah i can keep them busy for 4 gcds...

Edited March 29, 2012 by vulup

[Orangerascal]

Lol a year from now they could change trauma. What sense does that make when trauma will be null and void 2 weeks after 1.2. Not only did they ease the diminishing return but almost doubled expertise on the pvp gear, so its not going to be hard to have 20%, I don't know of course bit thinking 30%+ should be quite attainable too.

 

How about we focus on the hear and now instead of looking at the far distant future.

 

Read: 'balanced for war hero gear'

 

But hey I'm glad you were able to play 1.2 extensively to test your theory ... oh wait .

 

You're QQing before the patch hits. I recommend wasting that energy and QQ about the gas prices. Sadly it will have just about the same effectiveness as QQing about healing.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Khoraji]

healer battles are more fun than riding a speeder half the game because you die so much. At least its non-stop action even if no one actually dies lol.

[Nigyl]

It's no secret that healing in this game is overpowered. The only people arguing that it isn't are the ones that are taking advantage of it's lack of balance. I would ask these people to not be short sighted and think about the good of the game first.

 

The vast majority of people that PvP, do so to mess someone up. It's been the foundation of PvP in MMOs since PvPs conception. Now when healing imbalance turns the PvP experience into an exercise in frustration like we're starting to see, people quit and find something else to do. While it may be fun to take advantage of healing imbalance and spam LOL at these people while blocking their ability to achieve. It's not going to help with long term retention.

 

We're already getting the same syndrome that Rift saw with it's overpowered healing. ie. stack healers and spam which leads to:

 

Boring PVP is Boring!

 

Leads to:

 

see ya!

 

Additionally, it's bad enough the combat mechanics in this game are so slow and clunky. Why would you want to add the slow boring grind that comes with overpowered healing into the mix? You're just exasperating an unpleasantness in the game.

 

So... my healing is messing you up? Pissing you off? I think I just won the (meta)game!

[Khoraji]

against two healers? and i have four ways to interrputs a heal - one will fail due to a cc break which means a healer will get a heal off. And a healer's resolve bar will be full leaving my with a interrupt every 8 seconds after that. Can't get a heal off in 8 seconds?

 

They can also just switch to another heal if i lock them out of it

 

It will be a little easier come patch because my 8 sec interrupt wont use rage but hell everything else still does

 

and they also have cc and/or ways to get away, los me and heal

 

I will kill a dumb healer, every other healer will just survive me

 

yeah i can keep them busy for 4 gcds...

 

1. Why do you think you should be able to kill 2 healers by yourself? You shouldn't even be able to kill one if it is balanced. Healing should always out-heal DPS 1v1...but just barely.

 

2 - Most healing abilities have a cooldown, so if you interupt one, we may be able to switch to another heal, but then that is on a 12 sec cooldown.

 

3 - lrn 2 focus. Get a teammate and take them down...not that hard.

[voigt]

The real problem isn't A Healer its Healer(s)... Let me explain. I recently retired my Battlemaster Mercenary Healer. In any Warzone I joined were I was the sole healer for my team, I was quickly marked by the other team and gang ***** and no amount of healing was going to keep me alive. I ran into situations were a single skilled DPS Maurader/Sentinel could kill me himself with the excessive amount of interrupt's and CCs, force choke ignoring resolve, etc. Now some of you are going to claim I must suck if one dps could kill me but honestly there is nothing I can say to you that would ensure that I was a good healer. But being the sole healer was NOT FUN at all, in no way was I enjoying being marked up by the enemy team and 3 guys leap on me every time I am trying to play, with 3 people interrupting every heal I cast I was only allowed to use my 18second (with 4peice pvp bonus) cooldown instant heal for 2-4k. and my 6 second AoE instant for 1-2k. this is if I wasnt being chain stunned or choked, this was not enough to heal myself much less help anyone else on my team.

 

The problem you are seeing: Multiple healers cross healing eachother, you get 3 healers in a Warzone and they feel nigh-invulnerable. No matter which one you focus the other two pickup the slack. I do think this is a problem and in other games the BEST solution was to limit the number of healers each side gets to be even. A Game Balancing algorithm is what is needed in this game.

 

Please add code for Warzone matching to detect which people are in healing spec, and divide them evenly on each team or exclude some healers who may be at the top of the queue if the other side does not have an equal amount. 2 Healers per side maximum is the only way a game is going to feel balanced imho. I have been in matches where both sides have 3 healers and no one died, literally, the end of the voidstar 0 kills, 0 killing blows on either side. THAT is not fun and I agree. But a single healer alone is not OP at all, they are if anything a sitting duck and are not fun to play.

 

This is just my opinion and feel free to flame me for it.

[vulup]

1. Why do you think you should be able to kill 2 healers by yourself? You shouldn't even be able to kill one if it is balanced. Healing should always out-heal DPS 1v1...but just barely.

 

2 - Most healing abilities have a cooldown, so if you interupt one, we may be able to switch to another heal, but then that is on a 12 sec cooldown.

 

3 - lrn 2 focus. Get a teammate and take them down...not that hard.

 

I shoudl have a chance against one

 

no chance at all against two ofc

[fungihoujo]

So... complaint basically isn't that healers are OP- but that four healers are OP...

 

 

Come against 4 dps ever? This game makes it easier to shut down a healer solo than any other, and the healing is weaker than any other. People complaining about healers are the ones who have never CCed or focused and expect if they just start blasting the first thing they see they deserve free wins.

[Pistols]

So many bads...

 

[JustTray]

I shoudl have a chance against one

 

no chance at all against two ofc

 

This is exactly how it is. If you're a tank, you cannot kill a healer.

 

Rock, papper, sissors.

 

Please noobs, learn it. Tank > Dps > Healer > Tank.

 

That's why all you bads crying are juggs. You're not designed to kill a healer, you're designed to soak damage. This will never be changed, and if it bothers you, you should reroll to a dps class that is designed to kill healers with healing debuffs and interrupts.

 

It's incredibly easy. My deception sin was very good at it until he specced darkness and only the best healers can still survive him without the necessary tools.

 

If anything, healing is underpowered in this game. You have a 30% handicap vs healers, what more do you want? WoW didn't even have that.

[AHChrist]

Most dpsers work solo, most healers work in groups. That is why healers win. 3 people beating on a healer will kill that healer. 3 dpers each trying to kill different targets will fail. Most people in warzones do option two.

[JustTray]

Also, for the record, I am full BM/Rakata Healing Merc as one of my characters and I was easily rolled continuously by 2 dps republics with 14k hps each (commando/mara equiv).

 

The concept that a healer can survive through 2 dps is a complete fabrication.

[Khoraji]

Most dpsers work solo, most healers work in groups. That is why healers win. 3 people beating on a healer will kill that healer. 3 dpers each trying to kill different targets will fail. Most people in warzones do option two.

 

actually this is a good point.

 

As a healer, you always want to be near your teammates so you can heal them. As a dps, you always want to be near an enemy so you can hit them.

 

It is necessary to have help if you want to kill someone 1v1 as a healer (and have it not take half the match). DPS does not need a team unless they are outnumbered or they are fighting a healer.

[goulet]

part of the problem to begin with is that healers have issues similar to tanks. With tanks their defense isn't substantive enough to give you enough survival for your minimal damage to kill your target, with healers healing basically replaces defense. Now as opposed to tanks their healing can actually outheal someones dps, who is dps specced. in healers defense their damage really wont kill people affectively and those who are problematic to deal with as healers are usually deep healing.

 

rather then having a situation where the healer can heal, to let their damage do its job, its more of a situation where they just heal, dps is non existant, but the healing negates dps.

[Bnol]

Please add code for Warzone matching to detect which people are in healing spec, and divide them evenly on each team or exclude some healers who may be at the top of the queue if the other side does not have an equal amount. 2 Healers per side maximum is the only way a game is going to feel balanced imho. I have been in matches where both sides have 3 healers and no one died, literally, the end of the voidstar 0 kills, 0 killing blows on either side. THAT is not fun and I agree. But a single healer alone is not OP at all, they are if anything a sitting duck and are not fun to play.

 

This is just my opinion and feel free to flame me for it.

 

So you want to punish players for being a healer by slowing their queues compared to others. Also, what do you do in a group situation, people queue up with 2 healers (a smart thing to do to ensure that they have healers for their WZ), but then there are no healers queuing on the other side, so their group gets stuck in a queue. This wouldn't work within a single server environment.

 

If you want another healer in your WZ, group up with one and queue. In 1.2 you will be able to form a full premade so you can have as many healers as you want. However, you will learn that coordinated dps > healers.

[MartyrLXXVII]

Read: 'balanced for war hero gear'

 

But hey I'm glad you were able to play 1.2 extensively to test your theory ... oh wait .

 

You're QQing before the patch hits. I recommend wasting that energy and QQ about the gas prices. Sadly it will have just about the same effectiveness as QQing about healing.

 

I just don't know how much expertise will be possible, it should be at least 25% from what I've seen.

 

Other that I don't need to test. We know the reason trauma exists, I'd you have healing bonus close/equal/greater then trauma then its broken. That simple.

[Heimengoespop]

Also, for the record, I am full BM/Rakata Healing Merc as one of my characters and I was easily rolled continuously by 2 dps republics with 14k hps each (commando/mara equiv).

 

The concept that a healer can survive through 2 dps is a complete fabrication.

 

I will be posting a video after I've finished commentary audio on it showing just this. As soon as a competent dps is on me the only thing I can do is pull him to my teammates so I can get away, otherwise he'll eventually run me OOF (I'm seer sage) and then kill me.

 

With the nerfs that are coming to us it's going to be even more difficult to survive in just 1v1 scenarios. All these DPS saying that Healers heal to much are try hard baddies who don't use their interrupts and CCs properly.

Edited March 29, 2012 by Heimengoespop

[Daayz]

derp I can't dps down 3 healers by myself with little to no effort derp

 

nerf healing derp.