Interesting article on SWTOR

[Deirhese]

I laughed so hard when I saw your thread in the screenshot that said, "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."

 

Also the quote with the obi wan picture just made me crack up for so long.

"You were the CHOSEN ONE! You were supposed to destroy WoW, not become it!", that is classic.

[mcburly]

 

But do I expect all other featuers, the content itself to be at least on par with games that are almost a generation old? Do I expect at least a decent new feature to keep me hooked? Of course I would.

 

Then I dont know what to tell ya... I have similar expectations and all the features I expect from an mmo, this game already has. Since my first experience with an mmo was EQ, this game really does feel innovative compared to the older mmos.

[Toweleeeie]

So I guess the writer of the article has never ran dailies on Belsavis...

 

To this day only 3 Rakkata Leaders are killable, the rest still Evade, Evade, Evade.

[Elyx]

I thought it was a great article. Don't agree with some of his judgements, but overall a nice article.

 

I'm not going to dis those who have their disagreements with the game, or leave it. I just would like them to show respect tho those who still like it and want to stay. Ill certainly respect those who wish to leave. but it's certainly not a junk game in many peoples eyes. And whether you agree with his final decision (i.e. the haters are wrong), I think his points as to WHY are quite valid. but I feel that ultimately, if someone doesn't enjoy the game, they have the right to leave and let the company know why.

 

But I'm loving it so far

 

and the girl was quite hot. even in the cloak.

[xRydisx]

Then I dont know what to tell ya... I have similar expectations and all the features I expect from an mmo, this game already has. Since my first experience with an mmo was EQ, this game really does feel innovative compared to the older mmos.

 

And im happy for you. MMO's are vast and appeal to more then 1 type of player. So people will have different expectations on features and content.

[Dee-Jay]

I'm in between worlds with SWTOR:

 

1. I genuinely enjoy the game in most situations, especially the personal story.

 

2. Most endgame content, the PvP grind + Operations. are just o.k. Ilum is disappointing but I make the best of it.

 

3. I am however angered an frustrated by the obvious neglect towards debugging endgame operations. Wiping on bosses due to bugs, more than two months into launch, is simply inexcusable. This is simply not good enough.

 

4. I am disappointed in the wasted potential when is comes to evolving the genre. It feels like SWTOR would rather copy 10 ideas from WoW than come up with an own original concept that would actually move the genre forward.

 

5. I'm annoyed with the game's poor performance, especially in warzones.

 

Overall it's a ok...but kinda meh feeling.

 

And as good as the story is, I believe it would have been better to invest all those resources into some more long-lasting features.

 

Even after reading the article I think all of my complaints are perfectly valid.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Dee-Jay

[Gryphandor]

When all is said and done. I blame EA!!

[Deewe]

It's pretty much spot on. People's expectations are just way too high these days; they expect a game to be on par or better than WoW straight out of the box. But they don't realise WoW had a lot of issues from launch. TOR has a lot of potential if you give it time but a lot of people are whining.

 

The same was with DCUO, that game was innovative and fresh, yet people were whining and never gave it a proper chance and abandoned it within a few months.

I disagree with the article on most of the points.

 

First with a budget 3 maybe 4 times Rift you are allowed to expect a polished MMO.

Then TOR, whatever the bugs hit many core design pitfalls that have been hammered by the players since October, 2008.

 

Note: maybe you don't remember but at a point the devs bluntly stated they ignored the beta testers suggestions and feedback and only looked at bugs. Look below:

 

• Faction balance issues with 2 factions only and no cross faction content/switch
  
• Boring warzones PvP system without even world PvP
  
• Shortage of healers due to trinity system
  
• Same old many players against a big boss raids
  
• Unappealing crafting system
  
• Lack of character customization be it through body features/choices or gear
  
• No seamless world plagued with loading screens
  

 

And more surprising it does not feels a living world as the game feels too static.

 

Look even the gear isn't appealing and we have the exact same issue we had in all other MMO not so long ago: the mismatched levelling clown or the twin wars maxed out characters.

 

Don't forget one reason for the cartoonish and "simplified" cartoonish look was to make the game run smooth on a wider range of computers. They did not achieve that and even more the shadows looks like what we had 10 years ago.

 

Special note to the space shooter: BTW BioWare perfectly knew they would not please space sim fans with its current iteration and still, they did it: single player.

 

 

BioWare WAR marketing machine did nothing to lighten the hype, not even on space content. They are now paying the price. Players have been deceived and they are now hitting back as much as they have been disappointed.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Deewe

[AJediKnight]

BioWare WAR marketing machine did nothing to lighten the hype, not even on space content. They are now paying the price. Players have been deceived and they are now hitting back as much as they have been disappointed.

 

Yup. Basically this. I wasted $150 on a lie.

[Ghostryder]

Would it really matter? It is not like Bioware can invite 1.7 million people into beta.

 

We are still in beta. Didnt anyone tell you??

[Khaunshar]

For years now, I have read and heard the same song, repeated all over again: Every new MMO launch since WoWs heyday is bad, unfinished, crappy software that should die.

 

And when they die, and people got their vindication, apparently the world is a better place.

 

For some reason, apparently, nobody is able to make good games but Blizzard. Or nobody is able to make good games, period, right?

 

After the first few years, I told myself, the right game just hasnt come along yet. That these new games had been in development since the old days, and failed to adapt to a changing market.

 

By now, it is obvious we will never again see a MMO that releases into anything but a festering pit of acidity, venom and hatred by huge numbers of players, or ex-players, basically starting with the Open Beta. I dont believe it is at all possible to satisfy todays MMO Gamer crowd with any mainstream release, and even less with an indie title. Too high, and too diverse expectations, too many demands for every playstyle, and most importantly, too many demands AGAINST other playstyles than their own.

 

At this point, I do not for a single second think that TERA or GW2 will be the first ones in almost a decade now to be good. It will just be the same circle of disappointment, rage and vitriol all over again.

 

And thus, I stopped caring what other people thought and felt, and just played the games I enjoyed. I happen to enjoy SWTOR more than almost any other MMO launched in the last years, including the two most recent WoW expansions, which I tried out and who did not satisfy my wishes for complex and interesting endgame play. And thus, since Burning Crusade, I havent had as much fun as I have now.

 

Just to give an overview, I rank my MMO experiences from best to worst in this way:

 

EverQuest 1

Guild Wars Factions and beyond

WoW classic

WoW BC

SWTOR

SW Galaxies

FFXI

Vanguard

Age of Conan

LotRO

WAR

a lot of lesser titles

[xRydisx]

For years now, I have read and heard the same song, repeated all over again: Every new MMO launch since WoWs heyday is bad, unfinished, crappy software that should die.

 

And when they die, and people got their vindication, apparently the world is a better place.

 

For some reason, apparently, nobody is able to make good games but Blizzard. Or nobody is able to make good games, period, right?

 

After the first few years, I told myself, the right game just hasnt come along yet. That these new games had been in development since the old days, and failed to adapt to a changing market.

 

By now, it is obvious we will never again see a MMO that releases into anything but a festering pit of acidity, venom and hatred by huge numbers of players, or ex-players, basically starting with the Open Beta. I dont believe it is at all possible to satisfy todays MMO Gamer crowd with any mainstream release, and even less with an indie title. Too high, and too diverse expectations, too many demands for every playstyle, and most importantly, too many demands AGAINST other playstyles than their own.

 

At this point, I do not for a single second think that TERA or GW2 will be the first ones in almost a decade now to be good. It will just be the same circle of disappointment, rage and vitriol all over again.

 

And thus, I stopped caring what other people thought and felt, and just played the games I enjoyed. I happen to enjoy SWTOR more than almost any other MMO launched in the last years, including the two most recent WoW expansions, which I tried out and who did not satisfy my wishes for complex and interesting endgame play. And thus, since Burning Crusade, I havent had as much fun as I have now.

 

Just to give an overview, I rank my MMO experiences from best to worst in this way:

 

EverQuest 1

Guild Wars Factions and beyond

WoW classic

WoW BC

SWTOR

SW Galaxies

FFXI

Vanguard

Age of Conan

LotRO

WAR

a lot of lesser titles

 

Well..this is what happens when a majority of games are the same..just wrapped in different box. Those that go outside the norm..dont get much publicity..or is created in the wrong market.

 

Look at DCUO..we get action combat style..and honestly I think it could of done much better if it wasn't based on well.. DC. It appealed to a minority of people this way. I still find it's combat really fun. Will Tera do any better? I dont know..I was honestly interested until I heard of repeated reports of how easy the game was..was a real killer for them there :/.

 

Dragon's next also had good combat..but it's style also appealed to very few..and not really marketed. WAKFU could of been great too..if it just improved it's systems a bit. Right now..you just level HP..and really all you need. But a SRPG MMO could of been pretty good. Now I haven't played many..but I would rank mine

 

FFXI

DCUO

Rift

SWTOR

WAFKU

Dragons Nest

 

People will always complain..some are for unrealistic reasons (no software is going to be bug free..so stupid to think it should be)..but not attempting to fix simple issues. To this day I still can not customize equipment. It comes up as a big mess of words and unclickable slots where things should be. I am not the only one with this problem either. I have seen a few others. Yet..all I ever got from my numerous tickets was.."we need more info..please refer to patch notes for this fix"

 

I did play WoW in Beta..hated it. D3 looks to be a disappointment now too. So no..Blizzard doesn't just create great games, but is is a benchmark for MMO's.

[Ansultares]

I like how he blames fans for interpreting the meaning of "next evolution," instead of blaming the developers for making such an outrageous claim.

 

And his conclusion, pegging the hopes of SWTOR on some quick patching, is hilarious. Patching can save a game, but it won't save this one inside six months (maybe after a year under some new lead devs).

 

For some reason, apparently, nobody is able to make good games but Blizzard. Or nobody is able to make good games, period, right?

AoC was great, outside of being horribly bug ridden and making the mistake of stretching high level content too thin.

 

WAR was fantastic; unfortunately, the public quests could have been better implemented, it almost completely lacked for any decent dungeons, and too much of the game relied on RNG loot bags. But GW did a great job getting Mythic to implement a detailed world with quite a bit to explore, and while faction content wasn't 100% integrated, TOR makes WAR's ~50% integration seem amazing in comparison.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Ansultares

[Deewe]

I like how he blames fans for interpreting the meaning of "next evolution," instead of blaming the developers for making such an outrageous claim.

 

And his conclusion, pegging the hopes of SWTOR on some quick patching, is hilarious. Patching can save a game, but it won't save this one inside six months (maybe after a year under some new lead devs).

Agreed. Patching won't fix the game.

 

This game needs a new direction. Fast.

[Darth_Victus]

Maybe they should just stop releasing games 6 to 12 months TOO early (especially MMO's)! WHAT A THOUGHT?!?! DID I BLOW YOUR MIND?!

 

.. or hire some better F'in project managers.

 

Also, should have never joined up with EA.

 

/Captain Hindsight

 

Personally, if it were up to BioWare. The game would of been delayed another 6 months or more.

 

However, it's all about the money. The investors wanted to start seeing some income from their investments. And EA told BioWare to pretty much push it out the door and fix the bugs with patches while working on new content at the same time.

 

As for the partnership with EA, same as above. All about the money.

[Hebrind]

This article is so right, it's actually painful. Just look at the state of the forums. What a mess

[Kytea]

I particularly love this part in the article:

 

I don't think I've ever seen anyone complain with equal intensity while playing the game itself

 

So true.

When I don't like a game, I delete it and I move on to another one. I certainly don't quit and then stick around its forums for the purpose of venting out.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Kytea

[Hebrind]

Personally, if it were up to BioWare. The game would of been delayed another 6 months or more.

 

However, it's all about the money. The investors wanted to start seeing some income from their investments. And EA told BioWare to pretty much push it out the door and fix the bugs with patches while working on new content at the same time.

 

As for the partnership with EA, same as above. All about the money.

 

Ever tried developing a game with no money?

 

It's not a "partnership", either. EA owns BioWare. Like, EA is Bioware's boss. Bioware do what they're told...

[xRydisx]

I particularly love this part in the article:

 

 

 

So true.

When I don't like a game, I delete it and I move on to another one. I certainly don't quit and then stick around its forums for the purpose of venting out.

 

because MMO's are an evolving genre. Just because there is a lot we dont like, doens't mean we dont want to try to make it better. When we get a president we dont like..I dont leave the country.

[Hebrind]

I particularly love this part in the article:

 

 

 

So true.

When I don't like a game, I delete it and I move on to another one. I certainly don't quit and then stick around its forums for the purpose of venting out.

 

NEVER underestimate the propensity of a player who doesn't like a game to sit there for HOURS telling the world exactly why they don't like the game, instead of moving on and finding something else that makes them happy!

[xRydisx]

NEVER underestimate the propensity of a player who doesn't like a game to sit there for HOURS telling the world exactly why they don't like the game, instead of moving on and finding something else that makes them happy!

 

yes..it is called a review..in fact some people even do this for a living! Any product has a place you can leave feedback. It is a normal thing to do. Good or bad, people will will tell others their opinion and experience. This is a normal thing. Stop attacking people for this.

[Derfmiolleh]

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/bioware-mmo-project/1220572p1.html

 

 

Interesting read, some valid points.....

 

but more importantly, one of my posts is listed on the forums "screenshot" - I feel special.

 

This article is bullseye truth. As a cospiracy theorist I still believe that forums of new MMOs are hijacked by professionals who intentionally foster negative perceptions of the games content. I have seen this in every other new mmo that has attepted to launch since 2005. Easily influanced customers soon join the riot.

[xRydisx]

This article is bullseye truth. As a cospiracy theorist I still believe that forums of new MMOs are hijacked by professionals who intentionally foster negative perceptions of the games content. I have seen this in every other new mmo that has attepted to launch since 2005. Easily influanced customers soon join the riot.

 

with blind avid fanboys on the other side arguing against it. It's a fair battle.

[Fardarter]

NEVER underestimate the propensity of a player who doesn't like a game to sit there for HOURS telling the world exactly why they don't like the game, instead of moving on and finding something else that makes them happy!

 

This is true but overall the hating isn't a bad thing for the game long term. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. The people who like the game the way it is now aren't complaining about the upcoming fixes and features in 1.2, BW team has stated publicly player feedback has been a driving force behind what is getting patched, added first.

 

So when all the fanboys get behind the new patch and proclaim it the best ever just remember it was the haters who are more responsible for the changes.

 

Just some food for thought.

[Derfmiolleh]

with blind avid fanboys on the other side arguing against it. It's a fair battle.

 

These forums are for the fans. I belong here.