Stupiddrummer Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Whether you realize it or not, that is a VERY selfish thing to say. You are basically saying, "I'll play how I want and I don't care if the group suffers because of it." Are you telling me that the other players in your group are nothing but NPCs? Does it not matter to you that by you not pulling your weight you are ruining their experience? i've asked him that question twice now, with no response. I think i've played Left 4 Dead with this guy. You know, he runs ahead of the group while i have a hunter ripping out my chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygranir Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 In other words, "Meters make players better because they easily test out different builds, gear, and rotations, which leads them to performing better." Becoming a better player is a bad thing? That's an odd thing to say. It limits the game for people who don't like to min/max. It leads to a certain spec becoming the "best" and anyone not using it gets labelled as "bad" regardless if their spec is adequate for the roll or not. I like to play my way, and I thank you for not dictating how I should play to meet your expectations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) It limits the game for people who don't like to min/max. It leads to a certain spec becoming the "best" and anyone not using it gets labelled as "bad" regardless if their spec is adequate for the roll or not. I like to play my way, and I thank you for not dictating how I should play to meet your expectations. if by "limits" you mean "doesn't effect." Edited March 15, 2012 by Stupiddrummer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygranir Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 i've asked him that question twice now, with no response. I think i've played Left 4 Dead with this guy. You know, he runs ahead of the group while i have a hunter ripping out my chest. Doing stupid things while playing has nothing to do with recount/combat log. A good player can play his role perfectly fine without them. A bad player would be removed from the group. You don't need a full group combat log to tell who is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygranir Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 if by "limits" you mean "doesn't effect." L2read full post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Doing stupid things while playing has nothing to do with recount/combat log. A good player can play his role perfectly fine without them. A bad player would be removed from the group. You don't need a full group combat log to tell who is bad. you're right. you don't need a combat log for that. Adding a combat log wouldnt change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygranir Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 you're right. you don't need a combat log for that. Adding a combat log wouldnt change anything. So you agree.... there is no need to add one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 L2read full post. while combat logs can lead to determining what may or may not be the best spec, it is by no means absolute. You can play and build your character how you want, being completly ignorant of combat logs or the best build choices. If you still forfill your role and no one is complaining there should be no issue what or how you play. I pvped in Vanilla WoW as a resto druid and played later pve'd as a feral. Both of those specs were the opposite of what you would want for those situations. But i did my job and performed well and no one cared. I didn't use dps meters at that point, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 So you agree.... there is no need to add one. by change anything i mean it wouldn't have any negative effects. There is no NEED, just like there is no NEED for keybinds. But they sure are nice and make my life easier and my game more enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matte_Black Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) They are two different things. The game can be enjoyed without pulling your weight and you can pull your weight in the game and not enjoy it. In general, they overlap but, I have certainly experienced each separately in my gaming career. Whether you realize it or not, that is a VERY selfish thing to say. You are basically saying, "I'll play how I want and I don't care if the group suffers because of it." Are you telling me that the other players in your group are nothing but NPCs? Does it not matter to you that by you not pulling your weight you are ruining their experience? Way to misconstrue my words completely. I said they were different things, I said nothing about disregarding the wishes of my group or it's success in what you quoted from me. In the case where I enjoyed myself while not pulling my weight, I daresay the whole group of players enjoyed the experience too. The enjoyment had little to do with pulling weight or even our success but, the general interaction between the players. Conversely, I am sure most of us have thoroughly tedious runs where we likely pulled more than our weight. Enjoyment and "pulling your weight" are independent. Edited March 15, 2012 by Matte_Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygranir Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 while combat logs can lead to determining what may or may not be the best spec, it is by no means absolute. You can play and build your character how you want, being completly ignorant of combat logs or the best build choices. If you still forfill your role and no one is complaining there should be no issue what or how you play. I pvped in Vanilla WoW as a resto druid and played later pve'd as a feral. Both of those specs were the opposite of what you would want for those situations. But i did my job and performed well and no one cared. I didn't use dps meters at that point, either. That is fantastic, but it is rare for someone to use an off-FOTM spec and not get ridiculed for it, at least in WoW, as that is what the major comparison for this game is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englefield Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 personally i would rather fail 100 times with people i have fun playing with than win 1 time with people i can't stand being around. That's it in a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Way to misconstrue my words completely. I said they were different things, I said nothing about disregarding the wishes of my group or it's success in what you quoted from me. In the case where I enjoyed myself while not pulling my weight, I daresay the whole group of players enjoyed the experience too. The enjoyment had little to do with pulling weight or even our success but, the general interaction between the players. Conversely, I am sure most of us have thoroughly tedious runs where we likely pulled more than our weight. Enjoyment and "pulling your weight" are independent. pulling your weight is being defined as putting in your 1/4 of effort to accomplish the goals for the group. If you are not pulling your weight the groups goals are unable to be accomplished. What is so hard about this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoodmaster Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 It limits the game for people who don't like to min/max. It leads to a certain spec becoming the "best" and anyone not using it gets labelled as "bad" regardless if their spec is adequate for the roll or not. I like to play my way, and I thank you for not dictating how I should play to meet your expectations. If your goal is to "play your way" and you recognize that "playing your way" means being less effective or doing less dps than playing the correct way, WHY do you want to force yourself into a group of people who want to be optimized? Wouldn't you be happier with other people with your same view point? Not even the most rabid troll can dictate how you play. Unless you join THEIR raid, in which case, they have the right to determine what their expectations are and to expect you to live up to them. Wanting to "play your way" but not live up to the expectations of others in the group you are with seems odd to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) That is fantastic, but it is rare for someone to use an off-FOTM spec and not get ridiculed for it, at least in WoW, as that is what the major comparison for this game is. its only rare if you play with people that dont think the same as you. read the very 3rd post on the first page of this thread. EDIT; very 3rd, 2nd is a mod post. Edited March 15, 2012 by Stupiddrummer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matte_Black Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) My point is that you pose the question as dichotomy between "enjoying the game" and "pulling your weight." That is, the question seems to ask "Would you prefer to enjoy the game even if someone is not pulling their weight, or would you prefer that everyone pull their weight at the expense of the group's enjoyment?" I may be misreading, but I think that's what you meant to say. That question, phrased that way, doesn't make sense. It assumes that the two are independent or exclusive in some way, when in reality for some groups to enjoy the game, everyone in the group needs to be pulling their own weight. They are two different things. The game can be enjoyed without pulling your weight and you can pull your weight in the game and not enjoy it. In general, they overlap but, I have certainly experienced each separately in my gaming career. Whether you realize it or not, that is a VERY selfish thing to say. You are basically saying, "I'll play how I want and I don't care if the group suffers because of it." Are you telling me that the other players in your group are nothing but NPCs? Does it not matter to you that by you not pulling your weight you are ruining their experience? i've asked him that question twice now, with no response. For the record, the above quote is your response to another posters response to my response to the question you are referring to. Please read the thread more closely before whining about being ignored. Edited March 15, 2012 by Matte_Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoodmaster Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 In the case where I enjoyed myself while not pulling my weight, I daresay the whole group of players enjoyed the experience too. The enjoyment had little to do with pulling weight or even our success but, the general interaction between the players. Conversely, I am sure most of us have thoroughly tedious runs where we likely pulled more than our weight. Enjoyment and "pulling your weight" are independent. Um, when referring to "pulling your weight" we aren't referring to you, yourself doing so, but to other people in the group doing so or failing to do so. Yes you can have fun while you personally aren't contributing. The question is, do you have fun while others are holding you back. Or more importantly, should you be forced to take those people holding you back because you don't have a reasonable way to figure out who they are. As I said earlier in my anecdote about the guildie we brought to HM KP as a fresh 50, I have no problem carrying others on occasion. What I question is the desire to prevent me from being aware that I am doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 pulling your weight is being defined as putting in your 1/4 of effort to accomplish the goals for the group. If you are not pulling your weight the groups goals are unable to be accomplished. What is so hard about this? Simply not true in all cases. If I run a BT HM today, we could bring any other DPS and still finish the FP if the only thing they do is the required dialogue interactions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 For the record, the above quote is your response to another posters response to my response to the question you are referring to. Please read the thread more closely before whining about being ignored. yeah look up like 5 posts i responded to your response about my response to his response about your response. response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esproc Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 The persons that be at BW have decided to allow you your own personal meters, be happy. I truly say that if you need meters and mods then you are not a good player as you are only following directions any toddler could do. You spec to "COOKIE CUTTER" pre-fab classes and have no need to ever think for yourselves, fine. I will play my game and enjoy it while knowing that the only thing dictating what my character does is me. I also am content with the knowledge that I played damn good on my character in another game that did have all that junk, and a guildie more than backed me up when he checked his meters and was surprised by what I did compared to what he said it was going to be like. Be content with what you've gotten, share it amongst yourselves, talk it all over and don't just yell, rage, and demean each other until you check your leet scoring tablets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Simply not true in all cases. If I run a BT HM today, we could bring any other DPS and still finish the FP if the only thing they do is the required dialogue interactions. if its only dialogue interactions, you may be better off running the combat log parser just to make sure their dps is up to par...you know, just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulmius Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Say you are forming a raid group and you have two people that want to join it. Both are the same class. One is a fresh 50 with lvl 47 blue mods in their gear and the other is someone that has full daily gear purple mods and a few pieces of tionese. You run a flashpoint to see if they are good players and if they will be a good fit for your group. It turns out they both have the same personality and they can both stand out of the fire. Which one are you going to take to your raid group? All you have to go off of is if they can follow basic mechanics and personality. It turns out they are the same in both departments. The difference is one of them has better gear. Now let's say you have the same players and run the same flash point. The same thing occurs and they have the same personality and both players follow mechanics. Except this time you have a damage meter. It turns out the fresh 50 in 47 blue mods does the same dps as the 50 in all daily purple mods and a few pieces of tionese gear. Now which one are you going to take? Edited March 15, 2012 by Ulmius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediElf Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) You know there is only one way to settle this right? Only one way.... ....and that's. An Epic Rap Battle! Someone? Begin! Come on guys and gals! I'm waiting for an epic rap battle here! This really is the only way to solve this, you all know that right? The time for debate is over, we need to settle this with rhyme! Edited March 15, 2012 by JediElf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ordric Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I don't think there will be any combat-logs, mods, macors and lfg-tools any time soon. Why? Because it would make sense... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) God I hope this thread lives forever & the trolls stay locked up in here epeening each other into submission. Nerdsport! Edited March 15, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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