Founder Compensation

[TSP_Ghost]

the answer to this has been a resounding yes from most of these forum posters.

 

 

though to be perfectly honest i think the majority just want a target to argue with or pick on because they are forum trolls and are bored... but thats not really unexpected.

 

i have stopped replying to the other people though as its become obvious to me they are just arguing for the sake of arguing and will continue to argue even the face of irrefutable facts just because its a forum and they can if they want to.

 

its pointless.

 

I agree. Way too many people are all, "Your idea sucks, stop playing this game." Instead of offering anything else.

[MaliceX]

 

My point is, I'm paying $15 a month for this game, as well are all of you. I don't mind it either.

 

The rest of your post seems to make me think you're not....

[rangccom]

I agree. Way too many people are all, "Your idea sucks, stop playing this game." Instead of offering anything else.

 

Creating a thread in a forum always will bring differing opinions. My opinion is that bioware does not owe us anything and I offered my opinion.

[uziforyou]

I don't want to come off as unsatisfied or greedy, but can we accept the fact that pre-1.2 (and most likely 1.2) SWTOR is an unfinished game. That being said, I think most of the community has been quite patient with BioWare when it comes to weekly updates and server downtime, but there will be people that agree with me on this.

 

I am 4 months strong into SWTOR. I have a lvl 50 and a few lower level alts, but with the current version of the game, there isn't anything really keeping me interested. It seems like End Game right now is a whole bunch of grinding, be it for creds or gear. Sure you can start an alt, but as of right now it seems pretty pointless because of the huge lack of end game.

 

My point is, I'm paying $15 a month for this game, as well are all of you. I don't mind it either. In the game's current state, there is barely an end game, thus barely anything to work towards (except millions of creds, i guess). But in a few months, people are going to buy this game for less than us Founders did, and they are going to get more bang for their buck because they didn't have to wait months for 1.2 just to get a better game with more features. (i.e. Legacy Levels came with the game at launch, but we still are waiting for Legacy's actual implementation.)

 

Also, future players won't run into the frustrations we have had with bugs and patches. I can almost safely say that way more than half of you have sent in a bug ticket. And even more players quietly sit behind their buggy game.

 

BioWare, you have to look on us Founders and agree that we were the bulk that gave life to this game. We are also helping develop it. A " , Founder " title really isn't worth 4 months of what feels like Beta Testing. Especially since we're sitting and wait for Ilum to be redone too. For level 50 characters, you're stripping the End Game planet bare until further notice.

 

What would satisfy me? Founder content maybe? A Founder vendor with maybe a few exclusive pets, crystals, modifiable gear, who knows. We have special vendors for pre-orders and security keys, why not one last special vendor for the Founders who have been more than patient with BioWare while they try to make a industry changing MMO?

 

Any Thoughts?

 

What exactly is meant by 'SWTOR is an unfinished game'?

 

By definition MMO's are always 'unfinished'. So I'll assume (always risky) that your point with this comment is that you have a beef with what you perceive to be aspects of the game that you feel should have been included at launch.

 

Well, opinions vary. I played WoW for 7 years starting at it's launch. SWTOR is more 'finished' than WoW was IMHO but that's all it is............my opinion, just as yours is.

[TSP_Ghost]

That may be someone else's argument. For me, it is simply that bioware is not obligated to provide any of us with any compensation. MMO's that are actively given content updates are always unfinished. WOW, RIFT, Eve are still unfinished and incomplete. It is in the eye of the beholder. I personally love the state of the game currently and 1.2 will be compensation enough. But there will always be negative posts on the forums about anything bioware does or doesnt do.

 

I'll agree that all MMO's are unfinished, that's because the community is constantly changing and the game is intended never to really end. But with SWTOR's heavy lack of an endgame, I feel like I'm playing a KOTOR game with some multiplayer elements.

 

To me, the current star of the game fells less like an MMORPG, and more like a MORPG.

[Mercyflush]

Show me a game that has been released that had a ton of end game things to do at launch? I never saw the point of flying through a game so fast just to reach the end and complain there is nothing to do. The OP has been in the game for 4 months but some of us have been playing this game for a LOT longer than that and I still find things to do or change the way I play.

 

It is what you make of it and there is not a game produced that will satisfy everyone that chooses to play it. If you aren't satisfied then walk away for a while and play something different and come back later and check it out, all of your stuff will still be there.

[BrokenZero]

So I skipped most of the thread since it was mostly bickering, but I do have an idea about a founder reward that works well in other MMO's. Instead of a vendor or other crap perks, they allow players to start their new characters at a higher level.

 

In SWTOR i would recommend level 10. So instead of regrinding the same boring beginning over and over you can skip to where the game actually starts to be fun. I used to play D&D Online and this was one of the perks for veterans that was the most successful.

 

In D&D online it helps the game as a whole, because it allows veteran players to start new characters that they normally wouldn't, and help people that are new to the game level up.

[terminova]

Apparently everyone thinks I'm all: "This game sucks give us more free stuff."

 

That's not my case. But now what I'm more worried about is how low of expectations you all set for SWTOR. The arguments I am getting are, "It's an MMO, It's going to be buggy."

 

Have we really lowered our standards of gaming to expect and accept frustrations and incompletion?

 

SWTOR is fighting WoW for the Best MMO currently. WoW has years of content and players. SWTOR is new, and promising... not to mention Star Wars. I'm not unhappy with SWTOR, I just feel that compared to other games out there, what can we provide the players with now to satisfy them until SWTOR is as big and expansive as WoW.

 

Sorry to bring up Wow, but i belive it's a fair argument. We all want SWTOR to succeed, otherwise we wouldn't be patrolling these forums.

 

I don't think you're all "This game sucks give us more free stuff"; I think you sound like someone who believes they're entitled to feeling special for playing a game from the start with your "give us a special vendor and special items. You claim the game is still in beta even though it's out of beta and into full release. You seem to think a game having issues and bugs means it's in beta while ignoring the fact that a lot of games have bugs and issues years after release.

 

What you pay for is a service which is access to your account on Bioware's server. When you don't pay, they freeze your access to their servers because you haven't paid for access to their servers which is the service they provide as well as content you can go experience after you've paid for your access to their servers. More to the point, you don't actually own anything, Bioware owns everything including your account.

 

Basically, it's like renting a car. You agree to pay the rental agency, and they let you use one of their cars for a limited period of time. When you decide to not pay the rental agency, they take the car back. You don't get to say "no" because they still own the car, you're just renting it.

Edited March 13, 2012 by terminova

[TSP_Ghost]

What exactly is meant by 'SWTOR is an unfinished game'?

 

By definition MMO's are always 'unfinished'. So I'll assume (always risky) that your point with this comment is that you have a beef with what you perceive to be aspects of the game that you feel should have been included at launch.

 

Well, opinions vary. I played WoW for 7 years starting at it's launch. SWTOR is more 'finished' than WoW was IMHO but that's all it is............my opinion, just as yours is.

 

 

Let me clarify then. I am more picking on End Game. Things you can do at Level 50. The game Levels 1-49 is immersive and impressive. But once you hit 50, it becomes a grind of Hutt Ball and BT HM. That's it.

[Isharel]

Could care less if I get anything or not.

 

However, pre-1.2 this game was an open beta everyone was paying for on a monthly basis. That's just a fact. If anyone played the Nov.25 beta last year, they know what I'm talking about. We are basically running the last beta client. So he's right about that.

 

People saying this was an MMO launch, are allso right. But that doesn't excuses Bioware to write the beta client onto the discs(Check the fiiiles) and leave it at that.

 

Nowadays, since we stepped into the 21st century MMO's at launch recieve immediate patches and day-to-day fixing.(Pointing at Rift. That game was nothing but patching for a week, with clearly noticable improvements from one day to another.) This week-to-week patch application isn't fast nor satisfying enough to the players. A few graphical fixes here(Void eye, void hair still present.*cough*), another UI tweak there every week just won't cut it for an MMO in 2012.

 

EA needs to realize running a succesful MMO means taking blows to the wallet the first couple of years. It requires huge pile resources and a team twice the size of the current one. So get hiring and throw money at Bioware. Those are my thoughts, honest and unbiassed.(I.. think.)

[TSP_Ghost]

I don't think you're all "This game sucks give us more free stuff"; I think you sound like someone who believes they're entitled to feeling special for playing a game from the start with your "give us a special vendor and special items. You claim the game is still in beta even though it's out of beta and into full release. You seem to think a game having issues and bugs means it's in beta while ignoring the fact that a lot of games have bugs and issues years after release.

 

What you pay for is a service which is access to your account on Bioware's server. When you don't pay, they freeze your access to their servers because you haven't paid for access to their servers which is the service they provide as well as content you can go experience after you've paid for your access to their servers. More to the point, you don't actually own anything, Bioware owns everything including your account.

 

Basically, it's like renting a car. You agree to pay the rental agency, and they let you use one of their cars for a limited period of time. When you decide to not pay the rental agency, they take the car back. You don't get to say "no" because they still own the car, you're just renting it.

 

I agree with you 99%.

 

The 1% is coming from BioWare when they said they are going to focus on community feedback to make the game the way the players want it. Granted, the game is early and development on anything takes man hours.

 

I don't hold BioWare to the level of Blizzard. I believe BioWare to be much more appreciative of their audience.

[macroward]

They are not entitled to do a thing. It seems that some people have this mentality, because they pay for a service, that Bioware should be on their hands and knees kissing their butts, begging for forgiveness. It is as some have already stated in this thread, they did not promise to fulfill your every expectation.

 

BUT, just for the sake of discussion, let us go over the features advertised on the back of the package....

 

Define Your Star Wars Saga - Choose from one of eight iconic roles

-- Yeah, pretty much true.

 

Choose the Light or Dark Side - Meaningful choices throughout your journey will determine the light or dark side

-- Again, pretty much true.

 

Adventure with Companions - Build or break meaningful relationships with your companions

-- From what I already have experienced in the game, this is certainly accurate.

 

Engage in Heroic Star Wars Combat - Fight against reactive enemies battles

-- I suppose this would be considered accurate.

 

Pilot Your Personal Starship - Earn your own ship which is your base of operations

-- I admit, this is one of those situations that could be considered "eye of the beholder".

 

An interactive storyline with cinematic dialogue and full voiceover for all in-game characters

-- Very true, infact there is actually a world record set by this game, because of the level of voice acting implimented.

 

Discover a Fully Featured MMO and much more

-- From what I've played, this game does offer everything that any other MMO usually offers regarding features and what not. Guild banks and such hardly count, since World of Warcraft didn't even offer this as a service until a few years ago.

 

So quite complaining because you aren't getting your "money's worth". It is a decent, playable game, and I would say people are having a fun time playing it.

[rangccom]

 

People saying this was an MMO launch, are allso right. But that doesn't excuses Bioware to write the beta client onto the discs(Check the fiiiles) and leave it at that.

 

Or they put the launch client on the Nov25 beta

[ACLucius]

If this game goes in the direction many of the MMO's I played did, then on December 20th, 2012, we who were part of the first month of subscriptions will receive some kind of special gift for 1 year of subscription. One game I played did this every year and I ended up with 5 anniversary mounts (only supposed to get 3 but due to a bug that the GM's told me about I was able to get two extras), two sets of anniversary fashion gear (gear which was purely cosmetic and was kept in separate slots to overwrite the look of armor without taking away the stats), as well as a buff increasing my damage and defense by 15% for 90 days. The buff was a bit broken, but they already had ways of countering it in PvP so it wouldn't completely imbalance the game.

 

Honestly, I'm happy with how my experience has been so far. I think you are making a bigger deal out of it than needs to be. We may not have had all the features we should have, but it doesn't mean there isn't a way to work around what we didn't have. The LFG tool everyone is making such a big deal about could just as easily have been waited on if more people would have just put a small note in the LFG comment. You just simply put your role in there and then people looking for a certain flashpoint could just use the /who with filters and see everyone they needed to.

 

Really, people complained far more than was necessary. I remember back in December when people were complaining about the waves, and now that isn't even an after thought.

 

 

 

(This message has been brought to you by December Bonus Wave LLC. Give in to the power of the bonus wave!)

[TSP_Ghost]

Or they put the launch client on the Nov25 beta

 

If that were true, then why not patch that final client before releasing it as a full game? The point of a beta is to let people find bugs and fix them before launch. Mojang is best at that, maybe it's time to learn from an indy studio?

[rangccom]

If that were true, then why not patch that final client before releasing it as a full game? The point of a beta is to let people find bugs and fix them before launch. Mojang is best at that, maybe it's time to learn from an indy studio?

 

there was a huge patch before release

[terminova]

The 1% is coming from BioWare when they said they are going to focus on community feedback to make the game the way the players want it. Granted, the game is early and development on anything takes man hours.

 

I don't hold BioWare to the level of Blizzard. I believe BioWare to be much more appreciative of their audience.

 

Which has nothing to do with this thread.

[andrelle]

Maybe the lesson to be learned from this is don't be a founder. Don't buy a new MMO until at least 6 months after release. Let others deal with crappy endgame content, almost zero guild tools, inadequate raiding tools (no combat logs or target of target). Let others deal with it. Follow the forums until you feel the game is good enough for you. Then join.

 

I screwed up. I joined from the start. I was excited about it. I understand what you're saying, but they don't owe us anything. I have no one to blame but myself, same for you.

[TSP_Ghost]

I think you are making a bigger deal out of it than needs to be.

 

I offered up an idea and was met with claims of entitlement and unsatisfaction. Not my fault.

 

In no way am I saying I'm unsatisfied with the game. I'm only offering ideas to keep veterans playing, and most of all, to keep veterans feeling like veterans. So sure, maybe that is entitlement, but if you've been playing from launch, shouldn't you be allowed to feel like veteran... not just the guy who posted, "First!"

 

The Founder title was cool, a nice gift that in no way unbalanced the game. But seriously, what wrong with asking for Founder Pets? Or Founder Crystals?

[TSP_Ghost]

Which has nothing to do with this thread.

 

Apparently it does...

[TSP_Ghost]

I'm not saying BioWare NEEDS to give us this stuff, but lets put it this way:

 

You go to your favorite restaurant. You order your favorite dish. You end up waiting a little longer for your food, maybe a side dish is missing because they're out of potatoes, so they supplement a different side. As a courtesy they offer you a free slice of cheesecake for the inconviences. You weren't entitled to the cake, nor did the restaurant need to give it to you. It was a way to show you that they appreciated you and want you to come back, even though there were minor mishaps.

 

This isn't an argument of entitlement, just common courtesy. An idea for BioWare to help them let us know they appreciate us.

[Alexi_son]

To the original poster. (Especially since I'm browsing / typing on my phone and not reading the whole thread.)

 

It's an MMO ... They are NEVER a "finished" game. Part of the investment as a player is making a commitment to the game and company to buy into their "vision" for an ever evolving gameworld.

 

So yes, pre 1.2 it was an unfinished game. Just like EQ1 is still an unfinished game, 14 years and 10s of millions of development dollars later. Just like WoW post-kungfu pandas will still be unfinished.

 

I hope to God SWToR is unfinished. Because i've already got my kindergartener daughter's character name on reserve for when she's big enough to start playing too, and I hope SWToR can pull that off.

 

As for stuff, well, a title is pretty cool. That's more than some games give.... /cough Trion /cough.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Alexi_son

[andrelle]

I offered up an idea and was met with claims of entitlement and unsatisfaction. Not my fault.

 

In no way am I saying I'm unsatisfied with the game.

 

 

But you are unsatisfied with the game. This is what you said in your op:

 

A " , Founder " title really isn't worth 4 months of what feels like Beta Testing. Especially since we're sitting and wait for Ilum to be redone too. For level 50 characters, you're stripping the End Game planet bare until further notice.

 

What would satisfy me? Founder content maybe? A Founder vendor with maybe a few exclusive pets, crystals, modifiable gear, who knows. We have special vendors for pre-orders and security keys, why not one last special vendor for the Founders who have been more than patient with BioWare while they try to make a industry changing MMO?"

 

What would satisfyyou? That sounds to me like someone who isn't satisfied with the current state of the game, especially endgame content. Since 1.2 is supposed to solve a lot of these issues, you're saying you should get a few extras because new players didn't have to deal with the painful bugs and lack of endgame that you have.

 

That's what you said. So own it. Own it and say yes, I don't like this game as is. I've played 4 months with what I considered beta. Now that its improved, new players get all the trimmings, while I get 4 months of paid beta.

 

The problem is, you could have canceled before the end of your first month, paid nothing, then signed up later. You would be in the same state as new subs after 1.2. But you didn't. You, in fact, rewarded Bioware for not satisfying you. To ask for some founder extras now, well, I don't think you have any reason for doing so. Its your choice that you stayed.

[TSP_Ghost]

To the original poster. (Especially since I'm browsing / typing on my phone and not reading the whole thread.)

 

It's an MMO ... They are NEVER a "finished" game. Part of the investment as a player is making a commitment to the game and company to buy into their "vision" for an ever evolving gameworld.

.

 

Let me clarify then. I am more picking on End Game. Things you can do at Level 50. The game Levels 1-49 is immersive and impressive. But once you hit 50, it becomes a grind of Hutt Ball and BT HM. That's it.

 

Aka: "Why should I keep playing my 50?"

[Stoicraven]

Bioware doesn't need to give anyone anything, your entitlement attitude is a joke. This being a new MMO there are going to be growing pains large and small. The subsrip base needs to stop equating TOR to MMOs that have been out for years. Those MMOs that have been out for years have content and polish because they've been out for years.