Make TOR just like WoW!

[donkeykongjr]

Well then to get back on topic, let me just say something about that.

 

When Someone puts work in on something for months, why should someone else come along and get it in a week?

[dmtvaroha]

I remember this same discussion from the WoW forums. I understand what the OP means, but hopefully you had fun doing what it took to get your gear when it was difficult. That should be the main goal.

 

I agree that sometimes the missions or levels seem too easy; then again I did a heroic 4 with a group that was really hard. I think the heroics should remain difficult, but the rewards should be amped up so that you have the proper prestigious reward for the effort you put in.

 

I'd like to see the normal leveling content stay about the same as it is, but increase rewards and maybe even the difficulty of some other types of missions. There should be things to do for people that like it rough.

[Anathar]

this just seems like a "im not a special little snowflake anymore" thread...kinda like every thread in any wow forum.

 

the only question you should be asking yourself is this:

 

did you have fun doing what you did?

 

if yes.. goodie for you. if no..why did you do it?

[Magnijung]

this just seems like a "im not a special little snowflake anymore" thread...kinda like every thread in any wow forum.

 

the only question you should be asking yourself is this:

 

did you have fun doing what you did?

 

if yes.. goodie for you. if no..why did you do it?

 

And those that want everything faster need to ask themselves, if playing the game is the fun part, why shorten it?

[Metaspark]

the first 3 posts alone told me that OP is either "literally work your *** off for reward" or "give me free ****", and that the idea of a sensible middle ground will break his brain

[Metaspark]

And those that want everything faster need to ask themselves, if playing the game is the fun part, why shorten it?

 

moderation, my friend. the game is fun, yes, but having to do the same thing over

and over

and over

and over

and over

and over

and over

and over

and over

and over

just to get somewhere, to the point that it is indeed a second job (that you aren't getting paid for, in fact YOU'RE paying for it) then it loses the sense of fun

 

it's like playing a song you like over and over. and not just for an hour or so, I mean an entire day, maybe even multiple days, listening to the same song over and over and over without pause. I don't care how much you like the song, you WILL be sick of it by then

[Jmannseelo]

Well then to get back on topic, let me just say something about that.

 

When Someone puts work in on something for months, why should someone else come along and get it in a week?

 

Well, to use the golf example that somebody brought up earlier, should only people who play in tournaments be allowed to buy nice clubs, or should anybody be allowed to improve their equipment and make their game go smoother if they wish?

 

Personally, as far as MMOs go, I really like the way CoH does it. Namely: pretty much anybody can get any item eventually, group or solo. It's just that you can get it faster in a group.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Jmannseelo

[Starglide]

 

It reminds me of Vanilla WoW, when everything took a decent amount of time and effort and you felt a sense of accomplishment when you achieved a goal. Nowadays, WoW can be played blind-folded while spamming two keys on the keyboard. Over the years they just made it easier and easier and the sense of accomplishment achieving any goals just faded away..

 

lol, I love when people say this, proving they haven't done WoW hard modes or PvP'd competitively. Combat is WoW is way more engaging now as there are twice the amount of abilities than Vanilla and SWTOR. Also, the new hard modes havent been this hard and scaled since TBC. you know, the expansion everyone swore would kill WoW because the raids were so difficult?

 

SWTOR's grind fest for valor and rank is a joke. It should be based on ranks and wins, not how long you can sit in a Warzone dealing with clunky mechanics, lack of control, poor rotation functionality and the same recycled abilities in confined, cheaply geographically designed areas.

 

Oh, btw, 1.2 fixes none of it too so you're better off going back to WoW or waiting for GW2. And before you say it, I know they are putting in ranked warzones but the system is still barebones and under developed.

 

 

Oh, and the greatest part is, I wouldn't be this bitter if I didn't defend 1.2 with more hours of typed post than it takes them to reply to a ticket. Only to have my huge threads ignore and them boats about how 1.2 is the biggest patch ever released in an MMO ever....lol, chargin people to play half a game then releasing the other half in a patch while STILL falling short doesn't mean you pompous arses should be announcing that. Especially when the patch notes are a joke.

[Magnijung]

moderation, my friend. the game is fun, yes, but having to do the same thing over

and over

and over

and over

and over

and over

and over

and over

and over

and over

just to get somewhere, to the point that it is indeed a second job (that you aren't getting paid for, in fact YOU'RE paying for it) then it loses the sense of fun

 

it's like playing a song you like over and over. and not just for an hour or so, I mean an entire day, maybe even multiple days, listening to the same song over and over and over without pause. I don't care how much you like the song, you WILL be sick of it by then

 

Since the discussion is about PvP, Battlemaster rank to be spesific, means that if you enjoy PvP and then you will participate in PvP and thus you will have fun. By having fun, you will obtain the rank.

 

Why would you not want to be able to participate in what you consider to be fun? Also this is not a job and you are here to entertain yourself. You entertain yourself by participating in the activities that are presented in the game. Why would you want to shorten the journey that in theory you are enjoy (having fun)? Unless the fun aspect for you is to obtain Battlemaster and then sit at the Fleet and look at your pretty rank 60?

[Metaspark]

Since the discussion is about PvP, Battlemaster rank to be spesific, means that if you enjoy PvP and then you will participate in PvP and thus you will have fun. By having fun, you will obtain the rank.

 

Why would you not want to be able to participate in what you consider to be fun? Also this is not a job and you are here to entertain yourself. You entertain yourself by participating in the activities that are presented in the game. Why would you want to shorten the journey that in theory you are enjoy (having fun)? Unless the fun aspect for you is to obtain Battlemaster and then sit at the Fleet and look at your pretty rank 60?

 

to that, I answer with something else I can't remember where I found...

 

let's say you're sitting in bed, with nothing to do. across your room is a garbage can, and next to you is a pile of crumpled up paper (why? work with me here...)

 

to pass the time, you decide to start tossing the paper in the trash can. you find it entertaining, and start to count how many times in a row you can make it before you miss

 

 

now let's say it's later in the day, and you're laying in bed about to have some "fun times" with a girl (or boy if the case may be) that you like. Then they suddenly say "wait! we can't do this unless you can throw 10 wads of paper into the trash can in a row!"

 

now you have a goal: you try your best to make the shots each time, and get more and more frustrated every time you miss and have to start over. it's not even remotely fun now, because you actually have a reason for doing it, unlike before where you were just passing the time

 

 

now look at pvp. if you enjoy pvp, and just queue for random warzones, you're doing it for fun, and hopefully you're having fun. however, if your goal is Battlemaster, it loses a significant amount of fun as you continue doing warzones over and over and over, stretching out to get that next valor rank closer to 60, using hours of your time possibly grouping with the most insufferable group of people you've ever played with that cause you to lose warzone after warzone

 

 

tl;dr/I'm to tired to go into anymore detail: there's a vast difference between pvping for fun and pvping to succeed

Edited March 18, 2012 by Metaspark

[Magnijung]

to that, I answer with something else I can't remember where I found...

 

let's say you're sitting in bed, with nothing to do. across your room is a garbage can, and next to you is a pile of crumpled up paper (why? work with me here...)

 

to pass the time, you decide to start tossing the paper in the trash can. you find it entertaining, and start to count how many times in a row you can make it before you miss

 

 

now let's say it's later in the day, and you're laying in bed about to have some "fun times" with a girl (or boy if the case may be) that you like. Then they suddenly say "wait! we can't do this unless you can throw 10 wads of paper into the trash can in a row!"

 

now you have a goal: you try your best to make the shots each time, and get more and more frustrated every time you miss and have to start over. it's not even remotely fun now, because you actually have a reason for doing it, unlike before where you were just passing the time

 

 

now look at pvp. if you enjoy pvp, and just queue for random warzones, you're doing it for fun, and hopefully you're having fun. however, if your goal is Battlemaster, it loses a significant amount of fun as you continue doing warzones over and over and over, stretching out to get that next valor rank closer to 60, using hours of your time possibly grouping with the most insufferable group of people you've ever played with that cause you to lose warzone after warzone

 

 

tl;dr/I'm to tired to go into anymore detail: there's a vast difference between pvping for fun and pvping to succeed

 

The difference is that in your analogy, you need to do 1 thing to get the next thing.

 

In the journey to Battlemaster, you do exactly the same thing. You will do before and after you obtain the Battlemaster rank. Unless you do not enjoy PvP and you are just doing it because you have ADD and need everything obtainable in a MMO.

 

Your analogy would work if it went along the lines of, gather 1000 armament in Ilum and once you do, you will start gaining valor points.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Magnijung

[Metaspark]

I'm finding it difficult to explain to someone like you (no offense meant by the phrase)

 

it's not that people don't enjoy pvp and just do it because they have to collect everything, it's just that, with a goal in sight, and with other things (say, a job) getting in the way, they can't sit down and enjoy the game at their pace without getting to their goal. if you enjoy pvping for hours at a time, grinding and grinding your way to the top, more power to you. but other people either don't have the time, or simply just don't find as much enjoyment out of grinding valor that diligently

 

and it's only harder on the sort of people unlucky enough in their server selection that they get stuck with the worst of the worst in their groups

[Magnijung]

I'm finding it difficult to explain to someone like you (no offense meant by the phrase)

 

it's not that people don't enjoy pvp and just do it because they have to collect everything, it's just that, with a goal in sight, and with other things (say, a job) getting in the way, they can't sit down and enjoy the game at their pace without getting to their goal. if you enjoy pvping for hours at a time, grinding and grinding your way to the top, more power to you. but other people either don't have the time, or simply just don't find as much enjoyment out of grinding valor that diligently

 

and it's only harder on the sort of people unlucky enough in their server selection that they get stuck with the worst of the worst in their groups

 

Do you enjoy PvP? If you do, it is fun.

If something is fun, why would it be considered a grind? It shouldn't. It is simply playing the game.

 

I could understand this while "I have a girlfriend, job and life" argument when for example to get to the final boss of a raid takes at least 100 hours of game play. I understand physically to an average player it will not be possible to do before the next tier. Even if it possible, it does not leave enough time to experience the content before new content is added.

 

Here. There is 1 activity that you either enjoy or you don't, which is PvP. If you enjoy it, it should not matter if it takes you 50 hours or 500 hours to obtain highest rank. It will not feel like a grind. You will simply do what you enjoy and eventually you will get there. If you do not enjoy it, then why are you doing it? For the title? Why should you get it when you do not like that aspect of the game? For example, in WoW, I loved collecting mounts and I always wanted all the raid mounts but I hated the concept of doing a raid on 2 difficulties and thus I never did hard modes. This meant that I do not enjoy the content thus I should not be able to obtain what the content provides.

Edited March 18, 2012 by Magnijung

[InquisitorJaeger]

Well then to get back on topic, let me just say something about that.

 

When Someone puts work in on something for months, why should someone else come along and get it in a week?

 

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

[DarthMintCake]

WoW is WoW and SWTOR is SWTOR! There is no need for SWTOR to become like WoW, if you dont like SWTOR because its not like WoW... THEN GO PLAY WOW!!!!!!

[donkeykongjr]

WoW is WoW and SWTOR is SWTOR! There is no need for SWTOR to become like WoW, if you dont like SWTOR because its not like WoW... THEN GO PLAY WOW!!!!!!

 

 

THIS THIS THIS 1000 times this... Most MMO players come from having played WOW at one time or another, and guess what. There is a reason we're not playing wow anymore. It maybe because of the LOL mode content they've come out with, it maybe because the community has hit the fan, but we all have our reasons to play this and not wow. If you want WOW, go play wow, if you want something different, Play SWTOR. Don't try to make this game just like another game on the same market. It's like buying a Ford Fusion, and then complaining it's not exactly like a Honda Civic. If you wanted the Civic, you should have gotten the Civic. IF you want to play wow, no one here is stopping you. Leave us be with our game with tallents every level (not 15), and our fun social game and go play WOW.

[SNEAKYSIX]

FROM BEYOND,,,, Hey my sub ran out and I can still post, cool... Anyway, It ran out and Im out of the game. I will watch forums waiting for news of reaction to 1.2 post release then wait for news on server switching. Once that happens my sub will be renewed. I jsut gave up playing on low pop server, a RP server with no concept of RP and many more things. I made 8 alts and I dont want to re'roll anymore........

[monkeydud]

it's

 

not

 

wow

 

 

get over it.

[Irishbrewed]

Worst thread title ever...

[Rodane]

While I agree with the premise of your post, complaining about it will change nothing. Bioware and EA are doing what must be done in today's market.

 

For a game to be mainstream today, it must cater to the cupcake generation. Where everyone gets a cupcake and everything is easy so no one feels inadquate. Massage these tender egos.

 

You either play SWTOR for the fun it does offer (IMO it is fun) or find a niche game that meets your standards outside of mainstream.

 

Enjoy the game for what it does offer, this as good as its going to get mainstream. Despite the drawbacks, this is still a great game given the market Bioware/EA must work in.

 

I do agree with others here in saying that, this is not WoW and nor should it be.

Edited March 19, 2012 by Rodane
Expand

[Kozor]

You are 100% right.

 

Take WoW, slap on a star wars theme.

 

What do you have?

 

Star Wars The Old Republic.

 

 

I remember how much hate I was getting back before launch every time I'd write that TOR is gonna be WoW in SW with dialogue. Where are all these fanboys now I wonder

Edited March 19, 2012 by Kozor

[Rogozhi]

While I agree with the premise of your post, complaining about it will change nothing. Bioware and EA are doing what must be done in today's market.

 

For a game to be mainstream today, it must cater to the cupcake generation. Where everyone gets a cupcake and everything is easy so no one feels inadquate.

 

You either play SWTOR for the fun it does offer (IMO it is fun) or find a niche game that meets your standards outside of mainstream.

 

Enjoy the game for what it does offer.

 

I don't think this has to do with the "cupcake" generation at all. The primary market for MMOs is men in their 30s: people who have to split their time between work, family, and leisure. They may only have 10 hours a week, or less, to devote to their MMO hobby.

 

So a reward that takes say 50 hours to obtain translates into over a month of play for a casual player, but maybe two weeks for a hardcore player -- assuming that's all they do. When you factor in time to advance the story, endgame raids, and crafting you run the risk of overwhelming the casual player, frustrating them as they fall very far behind, and losing their sub. A sub that would otherwise last a very long time.

 

Hardcore players just aren't worth catering to. They buy the game, put a hundred hours into the game in a very short time, and un-sub complaining about lack of content. Then they move onto the next big game, hype it up as being the greatest thing since WoW, play it full time for two months and un-sub complaining about lack of content.

[Aepervius]

Are you saying you shouldn't need to put any effort into getting gear for your character?

 

So Bioware might as well just give everyone 8 level 50 toons from the beginning, all with epic gear so that nooone needs to put any time or effort into doing anything?

 

You sound like a genius.

 

No, it means there is a balance to get :

* reward must not get too much effort as to feel to grindy or difficult

* reward must not be too easy as to be dismissed

 

it isn't a linear relationship, it has a "maximum" somewhere in the middle.

 

So the respondent was right. Your kip about giving away stuff is a strawman and does not help your case.

[Dawginole]

No, it means there is a balance to get :

* reward must not get too much effort as to feel to grindy or difficult

* reward must not be too easy as to be dismissed

 

it isn't a linear relationship, it has a "maximum" somewhere in the middle.

 

So the respondent was right. Your kip about giving away stuff is a strawman and does not help your case.

 

No two people are going to feel the same about what defines "grind".

 

I come from FFXI where it required doing a raid that could only be done once every three days for a solid year to obtain the needed raid currency and item drops to create a relic weapon. Best weapon in the game.

 

So grinding out elite gear for 3-6 months is fairly normal to me and if the gear is good enough, then I'm not really opposed to this because I know most will give up over that span and only a few of us will have the best gear.

 

So are you comfortable with me defining a non-grindy experience as 6 months? I doubt it.

[Xabana]

I don't think this has to do with the "cupcake" generation at all. The primary market for MMOs is men in their 30s: people who have to split their time between work, family, and leisure. They may only have 10 hours a week, or less, to devote to their MMO hobby.

 

So a reward that takes say 50 hours to obtain translates into over a month of play for a casual player, but maybe two weeks for a hardcore player -- assuming that's all they do. When you factor in time to advance the story, endgame raids, and crafting you run the risk of overwhelming the casual player, frustrating them as they fall very far behind, and losing their sub. A sub that would otherwise last a very long time.

 

Hardcore players just aren't worth catering to. They buy the game, put a hundred hours into the game in a very short time, and un-sub complaining about lack of content. Then they move onto the next big game, hype it up as being the greatest thing since WoW, play it full time for two months and un-sub complaining about lack of content.

 

Your argument is exactly what anyone in the projected sales department of an MMO worth their salary makes to the board of directors. It is precisely the game design that a business seeks to maximize profits. Casuals are the intended customers.