Make TOR just like WoW!

[mangarrage]

OP is absolutely correct it is exactly like vanilla wow. When they actually made getting GM or HW gear basically something anyone could get.

 

That was the turning point for vanilla with me

 

And now the people who were legitamate BMs are now in a week or 2 will be surrounded by BMs who put in a fraction of the time to get the same exact thing

 

It is so funny awhile ago someone put a post up on the beginning of the end due to the lack of having to turn on your sprint button everytime. I read it an pretty much agreed and now the change to valor increase, color crystals for all etc, it is simply becoming ez mode for all

And on top of all that the raiding is simple too

 

And ofc combat logs

 

They might as well just sell the rights to blizzard at this point

[Voidence]

Are you saying you shouldn't need to put any effort into getting gear for your character?

 

So Bioware might as well just give everyone 8 level 50 toons from the beginning, all with epic gear so that nooone needs to put any time or effort into doing anything?

 

You sound like a genius.

 

I dont think he is, But lets be real most ppl with valor rank over 60 got it the easy way. You know with all the trade killing that went on in llum. I bet about 1% of all BM or better got it the legit way, the rest didnt. I also think the reason they cvhanged it was so people would be less inclined to trade kills on llum.

[Voidence]

OP is absolutely correct it is exactly like vanilla wow. When they actually made getting GM or HW gear basically something anyone could get.

 

That was the turning point for vanilla with me

 

And now the people who were legitamate BMs are now in a week or 2 will be surrounded by BMs who put in a fraction of the time to get the same exact thing

 

It is so funny awhile ago someone put a post up on the beginning of the end due to the lack of having to turn on your sprint button everytime. I read it an pretty much agreed and now the change to valor increase, color crystals for all etc, it is simply becoming ez mode for all

And on top of all that the raiding is simple too

 

And ofc combat logs

 

They might as well just sell the rights to blizzard at this point

 

And I bet you didnt trade kills on llum ever? Right? Heh

[mangarrage]

No I actually never fought a soul in Ilum and I do not have a BM. I think I have a 51 valor guy but I rarely play him

[InquisitorJaeger]

I dont think he is, But lets be real most ppl with valor rank over 60 got it the easy way. You know with all the trade killing that went on in llum. I bet about 1% of all BM or better got it the legit way, the rest didnt. I also think the reason they cvhanged it was so people would be less inclined to trade kills on llum.

 

Nah, I got it the legit way. I got around .01% of my valor from Ilum and the rest from warzones. And it really took hundreds and hundreds of warzones, way before the "valor increase patch."

 

p.s. I have no idea how many people actually did it the Ilum exploit way (versus the legit way), probably a lot.

Edited March 13, 2012 by InquisitorJaeger

[InquisitorJaeger]

OP is absolutely correct it is exactly like vanilla wow. When they actually made getting GM or HW gear basically something anyone could get.

 

That was the turning point for vanilla with me

 

And now the people who were legitamate BMs are now in a week or 2 will be surrounded by BMs who put in a fraction of the time to get the same exact thing

 

It is so funny awhile ago someone put a post up on the beginning of the end due to the lack of having to turn on your sprint button everytime. I read it an pretty much agreed and now the change to valor increase, color crystals for all etc, it is simply becoming ez mode for all

And on top of all that the raiding is simple too

 

And ofc combat logs

 

They might as well just sell the rights to blizzard at this point

 

Yep I agree, when I was involved in some of the betas, I begged them to make everything "harder than average" as opposed to "super easy so that anyone can mash buttons and still win everything". I really wanted this game to be challenging, and rewarding because it was actually challenging. But alas, they're following the Blizzard model of "EZ mode for all so that everyone can have everything immediately".

[snowmon]

i find it amusing that you put pvp valor ranks and effort in the same sentence. pre or post buff dont mean anything, the only thing you need to get high ranks is time, nothing more.

 

saying it takes effort is just a joke.

Edited March 13, 2012 by snowmon

[InquisitorJaeger]

Todays gamers take easy as fun. They don't even know how fun challenging content is. But what can you expect from people who change game every few weeks because it's get boring so fast. Guess what easy =/= fun, easy = boring.

 

I agree, I've tried a few MMO's that are so ridiculously easy that no matter how good the rest of the game is, the game just becomes too boring if it's virtually impossible to lose/die/fail etc...

 

p.s. and by "today's gamers" I guess you mean kids, teens and new gamers (generation Y?)

 

Because after all, every generation still alive is "today's gamers".

[InquisitorJaeger]

i find it amusing that you put pvp valor ranks and effort in the same sentence. pre or post buff dont mean anything, the only thing you need to get high ranks is time, nothing more.

 

saying it takes effort is just a joke.

 

True, the only effort Bioware made us put in was time, and now they're even taking that away so that you only have to put in less than a quarter of the amount of time for the same valor.

 

I agree that it would have been much better had they rated it some other way.

 

In hundreds of the warzones I capped hundreds of turrets and doors (etc) and got rewarded less than if I'd just stood in a group and randomly mashed buttons for easy kills.

 

I've written to them a few times asking them to change the way they reward warzones, but instead they just make it even easier, less time, less effort, less strategy, less skill, less though = a super happy gamer (apparently).

[Quintan]

There is a much greater number of bads and new players(noobs!! =P) in this game.

 

With time those that stick around will learn but for now the clickers rule.

[PsiLAN]

Reading some "gamers" sometimes i hope they remove rewards, so ppl who play for anything else than enjoy the game leaves.

 

Gamers who love pvp do not speak of any rewards, time to level, equipment, etc... they talk about fun, tactics, strategy, ... Theres no fun in winning just because you got better equipment. Not for a pvper, of course. Maybe kidz just love to think they are better because they can play more hours and win only because they got better equipment.

 

PvE, PvP... is the same, only takes time.

No matter how much time you waste, if you are only playing for the prize you will be upset when anyone else get the same prize for less "money" (time).

In fact, playing is the prize, and rewards are just extras. For hardcore raiders equipment is not a target, is just a mean to be able to try a more difficult instance (dungeon, flashpoint...)

 

The easier for anyone to get equipment in pvp the faster they get it and the faster we'll be playing in similar conditions. Also, the faster the kidz got their purples and leave the scene XD

Both things are good for pvpers ^_^

More enemies and less kidz.

[InquisitorJaeger]

^^^^^ a million times this ^^^^^

 

Wow got boring as soon as you could get raid equivalent gear, from running 5 mans. This along with LFR made endgame almost laughable.

 

IMO I "saw" everything WOW had to offer as soon as LFR was released. I downed deathwing in LFR and therefore just had to tweak the mechanics to make it work on 10 man. If you want people to keep interested in your game, make them work for a goal. Don't give handouts and bore everyone after 2 weeks.

 

Yep, I agree.

 

They really should make different LEVEL servers. Forget about PvP, PvE, RP servers. I've been on PvP servers for over 5 months (including early access and betas) and I've probably seen barely 10 enemy players in general World PvP. The only place you really ever seen enemies is Ilum or warzones. I suppose you could go camp an enemies area if you really wanted to, but the game really seems designed to keep you separated from the opposing faction unless you're in a special PvP area.

 

What I think they SHOULD do is have different levels of server, "EZ mode server" (for kids, gear is super easy to get, quests are super easy etc) "General server" (for the average casual gamer that doesn't really want much of a challenge but still wants something better than EZ mode) and "Super Hard Intense Difficult Mode server" (where the mobs are actually difficult to fight, quests are difficult and there's no form of "quest helper" and gear is hard to get).

 

I'd actually rather play on the "Super Hard Intense Difficult Mode server" so that the game was actually a challenge and not just "target enemy thing, mash buttons, repeat..."

[Vlaxitov]

You are completely wrong, MMO can't survive with casual crowd alone (same with hardcore alone).

 

WoW had 6 million subs before it ever got crazy with its content and a nerfball bat, before it ever added x-realm LFG, before it ever added welfare badge systems to PvE and PvP.

 

You are completely wrong.

[InquisitorJaeger]

Reading some "gamers" sometimes i hope they remove rewards, so ppl who play for anything else than enjoy the game leaves.

 

Gamers who love pvp do not speak of any rewards, time to level, equipment, etc... they talk about fun, tactics, strategy, ... Theres no fun in winning just because you got better equipment. Not for a pvper, of course. Maybe kidz just love to think they are better because they can play more hours and win only because they got better equipment.

 

PvE, PvP... is the same, only takes time.

No matter how much time you waste, if you are only playing for the prize you will be upset when anyone else get the same prize for less "money" (time).

In fact, playing is the prize, and rewards are just extras. For hardcore raiders equipment is not a target, is just a mean to be able to try a more difficult instance (dungeon, flashpoint...)

 

The easier for anyone to get equipment in pvp the faster they get it and the faster we'll be playing in similar conditions. Also, the faster the kidz got their purples and leave the scene XD

Both things are good for pvpers ^_^

More enemies and less kidz.

 

I agree that PvP should be about the fun. I PvP'd in WoW for about 4 years because I just enjoyed PvP. I remember so many AV's that would go for 4 hours + (I heard sometimes they'd go for days), but there was nothing like being in a battleground for half the day and finally winning that made the game so much fun.

 

It seems now though that battlegrounds (warzones) = 15 mins and then you're done. Get your rewards, move onto the next 15 min warzone.

[Quintan]

Yep, I agree.

 

They really should make different LEVEL servers. Forget about PvP, PvE, RP servers. I've been on PvP servers for over 5 months (including early access and betas) and I've probably seen barely 10 enemy players in general World PvP. The only place you really ever seen enemies is Ilum or warzones. I suppose you could go camp an enemies area if you really wanted to, but the game really seems designed to keep you separated from the opposing faction unless you're in a special PvP area.

 

What I think they SHOULD do is have different levels of server, "EZ mode server" (for kids, gear is super easy to get, quests are super easy etc) "General server" (for the average casual gamer that doesn't really want much of a challenge but still wants something better than EZ mode) and "Super Hard Intense Difficult Mode server" (where the mobs are actually difficult to fight, quests are difficult and there's no form of "quest helper" and gear is hard to get).

 

I'd actually rather play on the "Super Hard Intense Difficult Mode server" so that the game was actually a challenge and not just "target enemy thing, mash buttons, repeat..."

 

Lol that's actually not a bad idea at all. Then all the noobs can help each other and not catch grief from impatient vets and when you get better you can move up a difficulty etc.

[InquisitorJaeger]

WoW had 6 million subs before it ever got crazy with its content and a nerfball bat, before it ever added x-realm LFG, before it ever added welfare badge systems to PvE and PvP.

 

You are completely wrong.

 

Yep, WoW was good back in the Vanilla and BC days.

 

You need to admit though, that out of those 6 million subs, about 2 million were Asian gold farmers.

 

Hi Friends, enjoy much http://www.HappyFunWowGold.net, 15USD = 5,000,000 WoW Gold being delivered in 14 days quickly!

Edited March 13, 2012 by InquisitorJaeger

[InquisitorJaeger]

Game <> Work

 

if (Game == Work) then UNSUB

 

QED

 

I'm pretty sure I never mentioned anything about "work".

 

What I'm talking about is a "fun challenging game" as opposed to a "super easy game that requires no thought or skill or strategy or effort".

[Dayfax]

Difficulty comparisons to WoW are meaningless in this case.

 

This is an RPG made by Bioware. In the entire existence of this company, they have never made a difficult game. Their games are based around storytelling. If the gameplay is too difficult, the players won't be able to see the end of the story.

[ForlornHope]

There is a big difference between a challenge and a grind. Grinding is not a challenge unless the content is a challenge. If the content is not a challenge then grinding is just doing the same easy thing more times thus making it simply repetitive and boring.

 

Bioware does not want to bore its player base because bored people don't play the game.

 

Most people don't find playing the same stage a thousand times more fun then playing it 10 times. Its the actual stage that is suppose to provide the enjoyment not the number of times you have to play it.

[Vlakrar]

Back in the day, I used to get up two hours before I went to bed so I could walk to school uphill in both directions.

 

I put both the op's original post and the above in the same category.

 

 

Have a whole handful of interweb points...actually spat my drink out in laughter :D:D:D

[KLGr]

Todays gamers take easy as fun. They don't even know how fun challenging content is. But what can you expect from people who change game every few weeks because it's get boring so fast. Guess what easy =/= fun, easy = boring.

 

Todays gamers take grinding as an accomplishment. Its something that has dominated even within the FPS community (both players and devs/publishers) with the introduction of "RPG" elements as they like to say it, such us levels, upgradable gear etc.

 

If we want to start with the "back in the day" stories, we can go back in the day where it was enough to kill your friends again and again and again and again in 5 to 10 mins matches with everybody having access to the same basic gear, in home / student halls / computer labs / internet cafes LAN parties.

 

So stop blaming the new generation of gamers as lasy for not wanting to grind. Because the concept of grind in games the "MMORPGisation" of even FPS games was introduced by a generation of players who thought they could replace skill with time. It is not a coincidence that when online gaming became a product and was monetised through the transition of from LAN parties to MMOs, the then younger generation demanded gaming to be less skill focused and more grinding oriented... after all they had more time to play from the older players who gradually finished school/college/uni...

 

Now its your turn to sit in the corner as for once, the generation of gamers who pay your bills define the content. Gaming is a very mainstream multi-billion business. Filthy casuals rule. If you don't like find another game... but then don't blame the devs for bugs. They probably cannot earn their paycheck if only 100 ppl subscribe.

Edited March 13, 2012 by KLGr

[Remular]

"Super easy" is a relative term - the changes to PvP make it easier to gain ranks, but it's your own perception that defines their overall "easiness". There is no absolute standard.

 

We aren't all given instant level 50 characters with epic PvP gear and titles when we first roll our characters, therefore anything we achieve does take a measure of work. Your complaint, OP, is that the amount of work has changed and you don't like it - you worked harder for your gear and so somehow it should mean more, somehow those who come after you, who do things the "easy" way shouldn't be as well rewarded.

 

Your post does have merit - if things are too simplistic, if there's no challenge to a game then there's no point in playing; you may as well watch television for all the interaction you'll get. The Devs, however, have to find a median level of challenge, one that suits most players. You're clearly someone who prefers a higher degree of difficulty than is currently being designed for in most MMOs, and in many ways that's a good thing. Fact is, however, that as content evolves it becomes streamlined and all the shiny gear you worked so hard for is quite a bit simpler for someone else to get.

 

If effect, welcome to MMOs.

[rkspeck]

No hes saying that this is a game, and therefore fun should come first. Speeding up the rank isnt that big of a deal imho. Eventually everyones going to be battlemaster etc.

 

Clearly the decision to make it easier was so theres more competition for the rated warzones etc.

 

But one could say thats what your more afraid of that you wont have a gear difference to carry you.

 

Then back to his 2nd post in thread...Why have the it at all? Give everyone the same amount of gear and have rated WZs... according to your logic..

[TheLightningLord]

My biggest problem with this game right now is how casual the community as a whole is. Many posts in this thread confirm it. Whether it's a product of WoW or not, I don't care. I like a challenge when playing video games, it adds a sense of accomplishment that adds to the fun. I sincerely hope Bioware re-evaluates their direction with this game and adds some sense of a challenge. And yes, in MMO's grinding does equal challenge. Whether it's gear, Valor ranks, titles, Hard Mode bosses.... that's all the challenge you'll get.

[Silversable]

And yes, in MMO's grinding does equal challenge. Whether it's gear, Valor ranks, titles, Hard Mode bosses.... that's all the challenge you'll get.

If it's all the challenge you get, I sincerely think removing it is a step in the right direction.

 

IMHO, grinding is not meant as a challenge but as a time sink, which makes it a ROI issue. As such, its tuning is defined *exclusively* by financial parameters. If they decided to reduce the grind time, it is because they thought it would be more profitable.