Mara/Pally Bubble needs to be looked at(Undying Rage)

[kiroshei]

I have a sentinel alt, and nerfing this would make this class unplayable..

 

 

AHAHHAHAHAH Really??? Unplayable? You mean you actually dieing when you should die would make you....UNPLAYABLE? ....wowwwww

[ilovethepink]

If you were immune to stuns/slows/snares/roots while having 99% damage reduction then yes, it would be overpowered. But you're not. If you opened up with all your stuns and roots before he used it, all I can say is you've learnt for next time.

 

It isn't as overpowered as people think, every other AC has a form of stun, slow, knockback or root to use to get away from a Sent/Mara while he has this up. This is what you save your cd's for.

 

You're also basing this ability on Annihilation/Watchman performance. Fine, do that, but you'll need to buff the other two trees to make up for it as this is about the only thing they have going for them.

 

It is a powerful ability, definitely. But how is the Merc/Comm uninterruptable shield any less overpowered? Or the Shadow's Immunity to Tech/Force abilities for 3s and a full debuff cleanse any less overpowered?

 

I've no qualms with nerfing it, but it's a joke if it happens without any form of rebalance for our survival; Only Watch/Annhil has survivability outside of this CD, and that's only because you pop the other two CD's, blow a medback and self heal.

 

Let's put it this way:

 

Without it, you'll see more PT Pyro's and Tankassins as alot who are playing this class (Which has a high enough skillcap as it is compared to others) just feel so incredibly gimped that they'll flock to whatever isn't, and that'll more than likely be one of the more op fotm class/specs.

Edited March 14, 2012 by ilovethepink

[MightyHalo]

Biggest "Trololol" ability of the moment. Together with combat stealth this makes marauders / sentinels the most durable class in group PvP.

 

In 1vs1 PvP, undying rage is pretty much an "I win button" unless you can stun them or have some escape ability / can heal through it.

 

A damage / healing reduction while using it would be nice. Or better even, buff the defences of the classes that are actually meant to play the defensive role.

 

lol says the PyroTech. Give it up dude. Nice trolling.

[kiroshei]

It is a powerful ability, definitely. But how is the Merc/Comm uninterruptable shield any less overpowered?

 

You should make a thread about it. I'll contribute. Let me know when its up. Also you chose the wrong wording. Its not ME that would have to buff the other trees. Its biowares choice to fix this and fix it right.

[AstralProjection]

Sages have a housekeeping nerf coming(bw says they are bugged)

 

BH are being tweaked in the tracer missile spec(nerf)

 

As for everything else you mentioned go make your own thread and stop using abilities of others to justify your own OP ability. I'll gladly read it and give my 2 cents.

 

I can say alot about why Tankassassin is the only choice for hardcore pvpers since deception is broken. I refuse to tanksin. I deception. K?

 

Half your life! Oh my. Is that why its a penalty thats not really a penalty with a medpack? Pop it at 2000 hp. You have 1000 hp left and medpack for 3.5k hp. So youre immune to all dmg white & special while having 4.5k hp. So hard. This penalty is a joke.

 

HEY! I got an idea lets make it so its 50% of your total health pool. NOW THAT WOULD MAKE THIS ABILITY WAY MORE INTERESTING AND PENALIZING.....or lets just stick to 99% healing reduction so you cant abuse its use.

 

You make the assumption that your medpac is always off-cooldown.

 

You also based your initial complaints about being able to deal damage while "immune" (not really immune, but we don't need to beat that horse to death again). If you're popping your medpac you're basically costing yourself one of the two to three GCD's.

 

That leaves the Marauder 1-2 GCD's to kill the other team, as you're claiming. Good luck with that.

 

You made a good point - not everyone plays the viable spec for a class. Your straw men become even less effective when you consider that, since only one spec for Marauders can do any healing, and that healing itself cannot be activated on demand.

 

UR is no more an "I win" button in 1v1 than a 4 second stun, which Marauders don't have.

[Manigma]

If you were immune to stuns/slows/snares/roots while having 99% damage reduction then yes, it would be overpowered. But you're not.

So you're saying Force Shroud is overpowered? That's pretty much what you are describing, except its 100% damage reduction.

[kiroshei]

So you're saying Force Shroud is overpowered? That's pretty much what you are describing, except its 100% damage reduction.

 

Wrong. You still take full dmg while using force shroud. Which is why you cannot compare the two.

[Digtahk]

In summary; I think all serious pvp exponents are in agreement that this ability is fine and requires no change whatsoever apart from perhaps a small increase in damage while it is active. It is after all a marauders last roll of the dice and should provide them the opportunity to at least contribute to the warzone. As no convincing arguments have been presented to the contrary despite numerous attempted postings if BW could make this minor adjustment in the next patch it would be very helpful.

 

Many thanks

[ilovethepink]

So you're saying Force Shroud is overpowered? That's pretty much what you are describing, except its 100% damage reduction.

 

Which only 1 of three specs has, when used in conjunction with GbtF/UR it is ridiculous. I agree with that, having played one and played against many. By all means fix/tweak Watch/Annhi, but bear in mind that any direct nerf to GbtF/UR directly affects the other two specs MORE than it does Watch/Annhi.

 

Wrong. You still take full dmg while using force shroud. Which is why you cannot compare the two.

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/1YZ2mpN/force-fade

http://www.torhead.com/ability/ffAOW4W/phantom

Edited March 14, 2012 by ilovethepink

[kiroshei]

You also based your initial complaints about being able to deal damage while "immune" (not really immune, but we don't need to beat that horse to death again).

 

Right. Go back to the introduction post and read the EDIT**** Conclusion*** I admit to being swayed by the mara/sent population on that idea. Which doesn't mean that Bioware still won't consider it. They have a much bigger picture to view this from. So there ya have it. I'm not totally ignorant. However pretending you don't save your medpack for this ability is lol. Thats only solo. Ranked warzones you got your pocket healer so youre just dealing damage instead. Thats a whole different monster entirely. See what i did there?

Edited March 14, 2012 by kiroshei

[Nyaara]

If they dont fix this overpowered ability, Marauders/Sentinels will be killing machines during rated wz. A smart team will know how use this ability and this class will be a must have being a high dps class with a inmunity shield with low cooldown.

 

Is sure other classes need some tweakings but this ability needs a fix too. For example, the 99% healing reduction would not make it overpowered like is right now.

[MightyHalo]

Most of the noobs complaining about this wouldn't last 10 levels as a Mara/Sent before they quit for lol tracer/grav round/sorc lightning spam.

[AstralProjection]

Right. Go back to the introduction post and read the EDIT**** Conclusion*** I admit to being swayed by the mara/sent population on that idea. Which doesn't mean that Bioware still won't consider it. They have a much bigger picture to view this from. So there ya have it. I'm not totally ignorant. However pretending you don't save your medpack for this ability is lol. Thats only solo. Ranked warzones you got your pocket healer so youre just dealing damage instead. Thats a whole different monster entirely. See what i did there?

 

Yeah, you based an entire thread on a bunch of hypothetical situations that you constructed to support your argument. I never called you ignorant, though. Maybe you learned a little about the class.

 

If you played one I'm sure you'd change your mind, though. Any class looks overpowered when you face 3 or 4 of them in a warzone with good support. I've experienced that with most of the classes already, on both ends - To act like there aren't numerous simple counters to this ability, especially with the amount of CC in this game, is just crazy though.

 

Yeah, it's annoying when someone pops an ability and you don't get the kill you think you're going to. Fighting good stealthers will result in that regularly.

 

Pretty much every class in the game has some way to do that, though. If BioWare thinks there's an issue they'll change something, but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

[FarizAA]

Classes are rebalanced with 1.2. It is absolutely unknown what exactly effect it may have on pvp gameplay. Right now any such discussion is absolutely useless and waste of time, as well as asking for other classes nerf's. Wait for 1.2, get enough information, and then ask it again if needed.

[kiroshei]

Yeah, you based an entire thread on a bunch of hypothetical situations that you constructed to support your argument. I never called you ignorant, though. Maybe you learned a little about the class.

 

If you played one I'm sure you'd change your mind, though. Any class looks overpowered when you face 3 or 4 of them in a warzone with good support. I've experienced that with most of the classes already, on both ends - To act like there aren't numerous simple counters to this ability, especially with the amount of CC in this game, is just crazy though.

 

Yeah, it's annoying when someone pops an ability and you don't get the kill you think you're going to. Fighting good stealthers will result in that regularly.

 

Pretty much every class in the game has some way to do that, though. If BioWare thinks there's an issue they'll change something, but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

 

My hypothetical situations were rebuttals to numerous hypothetical situations from the mara/sent population. Honestly.

 

About 30 pages back I mentioned leveling one in betatest and recently. I also ONLY pvp in this game. I could careless about pve. So i'm not coming at this blindly.

 

I could careless about "kills". I care about wins. Which is why i see this ablity being abused for objective based teamplay.

 

If Bioware sees it and changes something with the rest of the changes that are coming for marauder then we are one step to balance. Whether you agree or not i dont know. I feel strongly about this. Just as those defending it feel strongly about it too. And ty for coming at this in a civil manner. Its rare in here.

 

Classes are rebalanced with 1.2. It is absolutely unknown what exactly effect it may have on pvp gameplay. Right now any such discussion is absolutely useless and waste of time, as well as asking for other classes nerf's. Wait for 1.2, get enough information, and then ask it again if needed.

 

I'm not waiting for 1.2 for them to consider this. This needs to be considered before the rankings start. Its too late now. They have it on their table and i'm sure they are thinking things through as we type anyway. Have to let them sort it out themselves.

Edited March 14, 2012 by kiroshei

[OldxLady]

Sigh... Well sure lets nerf the only ability that makes this class shine, and the only ability where the other guy has to think what to do...

 

But first lets remover some abilities from this game: Knock Back, Stun, Sleep, Root and Snare...

After that sure, nerf or even remove our "Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage" ability. Ohh by the way, as you might have noticed. Abilities I mention to be removed is pretty much a counter to our so called 5 sec of God Mode...

 

So yeah, whats the problem people? You cant counter 5 seconds? You get pissed that he gets healed while he is in that bubble? You are 100% sure that this one 4 sec ability will brake rated warzone? You whine that we can still do out 100% damage while in the bubble?

 

God, its like you people just started playing this game...

* What about Vanish? Smuggler/IA and Inq/Cons DPS speced AC's give you ability to get out from anything? Yes, the nobos will get cought by AoE and the Scan ability, the good ones will not... Not to mention to again be able to use an 5 sec CC ability for Smuggler/IA after the use vanish.

* What about Force Speed? Combined with bubble, you can get out of anything...

 

So you guys want to remove the one ability that makes good Sents/Mara shine? Because it is so hard to CC the guy that uses a 4 sec Bubble that makes him immune to damage.

Ohh his resolve bar is full? Use Snare or even Root, and boom you render the guys useless and he will die after the 4 sec of him trying to catch up to you run out...

 

Please guys learn to play before you come here and say somthing is OP, cause to be honest, that bubble is the easiest thing to counter. Even if there is a healer Healing him...

 

Yes, I play one... And yes I own people with this class. When ever I use Guarder by the force I will 90% of the time either kill the target or do tons of damage to him and Escape to than finish him of while his guard is down.

The other 10% Ill will be killed by good players that know how to use theire CC to counter what ever I throw at them..

Edited March 14, 2012 by OldxLady

[kiroshei]

Sigh... Well sure lets nerf the only ability that makes this class shine, and the only ability where the other guy has to think what to do...

 

But first lets remover some abilities from this game: Knock Back, Stun, Sleep, Root and Snare...

After that sure, nerf or even remove our "Guarded by the Force/Undying Rage" ability. Ohh by the way, as you might have noticed. Abilities I mention to be removed is pretty much a counter to our so called 4 sec of God Mode...

 

So yeah, whats the problem people? You cant counter 4 seconds? You get pissed that he gets healed while he is in that bubble? You are 100% sure that this one 4 sec ability will brake rated warzone? You whine that we can still do out 100% damage while in the bubble?

 

God, its like you people just started playing this game...

* What about Vanish? Smuggler/IA and Inq/Cons DPS speced AC's give you ability to get out from anything? Yes, the nobos will get cought by AoE and the Scan ability, the good ones will not... Not to mention to again be able to use an 4 sec CC ability for Smuggler/IA after the use vanish.

* What about Force Speed? Combined with bubble, you can get out of anything...

 

So you guys want to remove the one ability that makes good Sents/Mara shine? Because it is so hard to CC the guy that uses a 4 sec Bubble that makes him immune to damage.

Ohh his resolve bar is full? Use Snare or even Root, and boom you render the guys useless and he will die after the 4 sec of him trying to catch up to you run out...

 

Please guys learn to play before you come here and say somthing is OP, cause to be honest, that bubble is the easiest thing to counter. Even if there is a healer Healing him...

 

 

Noone said anything about "removing" the ability. Just making it so the "so-called penalty" is an actual penalty. That so much to ask? Btw feel free to make threads on your issues with other abilities. Let me know when they are up.

[TheRelic]

As a marauder ill say this, a marauder is a hard to master class, but in the good hand a monster. BUT a marauder is not in any way overpowerd! Leave the class as it is, marauders that are still around "learned how to play"! And will rip you if you don't master your class.

 

I am using over 19 different skills in every fight, ppl that talk about nerfing marauders have some balls, they prefer nerfing a class that is already tough to play so they can keep pressing 2 to 5 buttons.

 

Marauders are already on the edge of getting underpowerd, tweek it to mutch and you will lose the class in pvp. Buff it to mutch and you will create a undistructable monster.

[kiroshei]

undistructable monster.

 

that about sums up the reason for this thread. ty for that. \m/

[Digtahk]

Whatever you say doesn't take away from the simple fact that this ability is exactly the same as a stun. In most cases an enemy is fully stunned preventing them dealing damage to anyone but allowing them to be damaged. In this case all enemies are prevented from damaging one particular enemy though they are able to damage others and likewise are able to be damaged by all their enemies in turn. The only difference in this case is they are able to prevent the enemy which they are unable to damage from damaging them via one of numerous tools at their disposal.

 

Do numerous other classes have such stuns - why yes!. Do other classes forgo half their Hitpoints to employs said stuns - Why no!

 

So why do you consider it over powered again?

[Precise]

So what the OP is trying to say is a class should not be able to do full damage while not being able to be damaged...am I right? Ok well then if thats the case then you need to do that same thing to stuns/roots/knockdowns/bubbles because they are pretty much the same thing. Wait no they arent....because the above listed abilities DONT cost 50% health AND you can run away from the so called "God Mode" player OR CC them for the ever so long 5 seconds. Heres a tip that sets the good pvpers from the average....identify the situation and react accordingly. Dont sit there and beat on a player thats immune to damage ...duh. Run away or CC them until it wears off then kill them since their health should be rediculously low after taking a 50% reduction

 

Nsane

50 Mara

[OldxLady]

Noone said anything about "removing" the ability. Just making it so the "so-called penalty" is an actual penalty. That so much to ask? Btw feel free to make threads on your issues with other abilities. Let me know when they are up.

 

Mah, I still think AoE KB combined with Root is tad OP, but mah Ill survive.

Also what other penalty do you want? It already takes away 50% of our HP. Yes, its nothing when we are low HP, but when we are getting low HP where it becomes effective with the 50% HP cost, we risk of getting CC'd and finished before we even have a chance to pop out "God Mode".

 

But sure I agree... Make the ability while in bubble take 99% less damage and also take 99% less healing, but than also remove the cost of 50% of HP...

Does that sound good to you? I think its balanced this way. You will stop crying about us getting heales, and we dont have to risk anything when we use it, as we can use it any time we want?

Edited March 14, 2012 by OldxLady

[TheRelic]

that about sums up the reason for this thread. ty for that. \m/

 

Don't quote 2 words of my whole post: ignorance is a blessing! Hurpdy durp dude! Yeehaa

Edited March 14, 2012 by TheRelic

[AstralProjection]

My hypothetical situations were rebuttals to numerous hypothetical situations from the mara/sent population. Honestly.

 

About 30 pages back I mentioned leveling one in betatest and recently. I also ONLY pvp in this game. I could careless about pve. So i'm not coming at this blindly.

 

I could careless about "kills". I care about wins. Which is why i see this ablity being abused for objective based teamplay.

 

If Bioware sees it and changes something with the rest of the changes that are coming for marauder then we are one step to balance. Whether you agree or not i dont know. I feel strongly about this. Just as those defending it feel strongly about it too. And ty for coming at this in a civil manner. Its rare in here.

 

 

 

Too late man. I'm not waiting for 1.2 for them to consider this. This needs to be considered before the rankings start. Its too late now. They have it on their table and i'm sure they are thinking things through as we type anyway. Have to let them sort it out themselves.

 

 

Well, I respect where you're coming from, because I basically retired from PVE as well...I only care about the PVP aspect of this game.

 

I don't see how you think UR is going to be the game changer that HAS to be looked at before 1.2 though. Still, after all these pages, I can't figure out what's going to make it so unstoppable in team play.

 

Other classes take damage better, even with those few seconds of near immunity. Healers can outheal a DPSer easily even using interrupts every time they come up. A good healer will live far longer than a Marauder even after using UR/Medpack and receiving crit-heals. Multiple Sorcs/Sages and Assassins/Shadows that know what they're doing can end a Huttball match before it's even over.

 

The list goes on and on. Good players will always make abilities look overpowered.

 

The truth of it is, every class is overpowered, in a good player's hands.

 

The real definition of overpowered on these forums appears to be "different from me".

 

The same thread could be started about AOE mezzes, because used in the hands of a coordinated team, which is what you're worried about, you can disable half the enemy's team easily.

 

Chaining knockbacks in Huttball is OP. Stacking healers in Voidstar and Alderaan is OP.

 

There are plenty of things that are way more important to be looked at before Ranked if you're going to go there. People are always going to find the best combination of abilities to maximize the cheapness of a strategy to gain an easy win. It's part of playing the game. Personally, I don't care, I like the challenge.

 

I'm pretty sure UR will be the least of your worries when the time comes.

Edited March 14, 2012 by AstralProjection

[Fdzzaigl]

lol says the PyroTech. Give it up dude. Nice trolling.

 

I'm a trooper who plays hybrid tank and sometimes assault in PvP.

 

Please enlighten me where in our trees we have an ability that can make us immune to all damage while we continue to nuke our opponents and get healed back to full, as well as a combat stealth.

Assault has crazy burst, yes, but we have no escape abilities or heals whatsoever, unlike this class, and even though we're supposed to have the biggest burst in the game, there is no beating a marauder who has the faintest clue what they're doing.

 

But heck, mara's can continue to be the best 1vs1 class for all I care, they just shouldn't be the most durable class around in group pvp. That should go to tank Guardians / Shadows / Vanguards.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Fdzzaigl