Ghostcrawler offers some food for thought....

[Tgpo]

I curse you OP for bringing this to my attention. Being two years sober from WoW, I now have returning hope and an urge to get back into the game based of what they have planned and have released since I left the game.

 

One reason I mainly won't go back is because their graphical engine is hella outdated in the character/armor textures. While the art style is still barely holding up and the water system was a much needed revamp, character/armor textures just matter a lot to me.

 

 

Here's hoping TOR will become something as awesome as WoW has been, and maybe, just maybe, I will return to TOR one day too.

 

 

I really don't understand why people believe WoW graphics are so outdated. If you look at much of the content from WotLk and onwards you will see a significant difference in textures. The only thing that hasn't changed is the poly count of the models. Models and textures aren't the same thing, and while there isn't a single sphere in the entire game I still prefer the overall look of that game.

 

Most importantly it runs without a problem on pretty much every platform released since 06, hekk, I was using a Geforce 2 when that game was released . Performance > Aesthetics all the way for me.

 

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not here to hype up that game as like many I am very tired of it and I have enjoyed this game. I would just like to see this game improve in areas where Blizzard had hit the mark.

[noodlehaus]

This is why I stopped raiding in Cata. The epic feeling of a deep storyline just wasn't there. But then again, Warcraft 3 and getting into WoW, it was all about Arthas and his fall from grace.

 

Deathwing was a poorly thought out and conceived villain. He's crazy, and that's that. You can't relate to him. Arthas, Illidan, you felt for them. They had a rich, deep story that was tragic. Deathwing was just a big, crazy dragon.

[Dimvou]

Greg "Ghostcrawler" and his team of developers is the main reason i left WoW.

And every time he opens his mouth to talk,i dislike him even more.

He managed to lost 2m subscribers in a year - with no real competition from any other MMO.

Pretty soon WoW will have no talents at all,no story,no lvling,but he will make the game balanced when everyone will be a frost mage for PvP and a fire mage for PvE.

 

"Cute" Pandas** running around and jumping outside of AH selling items with Euros instead of Gold.

Good luck with that.

 

This guy is the "Uwe Boll" of gaming industry.

 

EDIT : Greg Ghostcrawler was hired in 2008 by Blizzard,when the game was already a huge success.He was not among the original developers team that made the game.

 

 

**No offence to the real Pandas,i love and respect all animal life.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Dimvou

[Sunsoar]

I really don't understand why people believe WoW graphics are so outdated. If you look at much of the content from WotLk and onwards you will see a significant difference in textures. The only thing that hasn't changed is the poly count of the models. Models and textures aren't the same thing, and while there isn't a single sphere in the entire game I still prefer the overall look of that game.

 

Most importantly it runs without a problem on pretty much every platform released since 06, hekk, I was using a Geforce 2 when that game was released . Performance > Aesthetics all the way for me.

 

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not here to hype up that game as like many I am very tired of it and I have enjoyed this game. I would just like to see this game improve in areas where Blizzard had hit the mark.

 

Models, textues and polys all relate to each other. Can't have one without the other.

 

 

I'm not here to hype anything either. Ghostcrawlers post was just refreshing to see what they admit they did wrong and what they plan to fix. Nothing has been admitted wrong by TOR devs really.

 

I played WoW at it's launch on a Dell laptop and after I returned from the Marine Corps shortly after launch, I continued playing on a mediocre machine for a while until I upgraded it to a high end machine over time. One thing WoW did well was run on any machine circa 200BC

[kevlarto]

I left wow many moons ago, have no plan to return, it was old and tired then, I am sure even more old and tired now, I really could care what some clown thinks, what they did right or wrong, and why would any one here even care, these are not the wow forums.. /shrug

[Sunsoar]

I left wow many moons ago, have no plan to return, it was old and tired then, I am sure even more old and tired now, I really could care what some clown thinks, what they did right or wrong, and why would any one here even care, these are not the wow forums.. /shrug

 

Learning from others mistakes is a bad idea?

[RabidPopcorn]

Learning from others mistakes is a bad idea?

 

'because wow is bad and swtor is good'

[sevev]

.....What exactly is your definition of exploring?

 

Sorry, I probably didn't express myself properly.

 

 

I should have used the term "Accessible" instead of "Explorable".

 

 

Essentially, every questing area within the various SWTOR zones are "accessible".

Every questing area within the various WOW zones are "accessible".

 

What Bioware did was put up a lot of separating barriers within their various zones. Like the barriers from Anchorhead and mos Ila before you go to Jundland (I think that's its name).

 

Blizzard didn't do this with their zones. However, there are sections within various wow zones that are visible, but not accessible (baring a flying mount). Which is almost the same as the zones in SWTOR.

[RabidPopcorn]

Sorry, I probably didn't express myself properly.

 

 

I should have used the term "Accessible" instead of "Explorable".

 

 

Essentially, every questing area within the various SWTOR zones are "accessible".

Every questing area within the various WOW zones are "accessible".

 

What Bioware did was put up a lot of separating barriers within their various zones. Like the barriers from Anchorhead and mos Ila before you go to Jundland (I think that's its name).

 

Blizzard didn't do this with their zones. However, there are sections within various wow zones that are visible, but not accessible (baring a flying mount). Which is almost the same as the zones in SWTOR.

 

The mere fact that wow can accommodate flying mounts makes it more immersive than swtor.

[sevev]

The mere fact that wow can accommodate flying mounts makes it more immersive than swtor.

 

That becomes a matter of opinion and not fact..

 

I can get on one of my flying mounts. shoot up into the sky as high as possible, and completely avoid the gaming world.

 

How does one become immersed into a gaming world if one does not SEE that world?

[Tahana]

I've played WoW, Aion, STO, Rift and now SW:TOR. I don't have a petagree in MMO's but all the while I played Aion and STO I never left WoW. My rogue was still the toon that I couldn't wait to log into to play..

 

With that said.. We are listening to anything Greg Street says and taking it for more than a grain of salt? Seriously? He is the person responsible for Wrath, and then..... the person responsible for Cataclysm. Complete and total opposites of the spectrum. While Wrath may have been a financial success for Blizzard, it was a failure for the Genre as a whole.

 

While I will never 'slam' WoW unfairly, as it was the first game to get me into MMO's, I have lost all faith in Blizzard because of Greg Street and will only return upon his termination.

[Tahana]

Blizzard didn't do this with their zones. However, there are sections within various wow zones that are visible, but not accessible (baring a flying mount). Which is almost the same as the zones in SWTOR.

 

So looking at WoW - Pre Cata

 

The rock and tree walls Darkshore make things accessible? How about Winterspring, Azshara, Felwood..

 

The list really goes on and on an on with how they 'blocked' things up and forced you to run around tons of garbage to get from point a to point b.

 

How about the south shore quest that you get in Stormwind.. Where you have to run from Iron Forge all the way to south shore back before you had mounts at level 20..

 

Take off your rose colored glasses. I'm not going to give this game or any other game credit where it isn't due. But I'm certainly not going to sit here and call this game garbage because they have put time sinks into the game when WoW had worse.

 

Paladin weapon quest anyone???

 

Peace.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Tahana

[RabidPopcorn]

So looking at WoW - Pre Cata

 

The rock and tree walls Darkshore make things accessible? How about Winterspring, Azshara, Felwood..

 

The list really goes on and on an on with how they 'blocked' things up and forced you to run around tons of garbage to get from point a to point b.

 

How about the south shore quest that you get in Stormwind.. Where you have to run from Iron Forge all the way to south shore back before you had mounts at level 20..

 

Take off your rose colored glasses. I'm not going to give this game or any other game credit where it isn't due. But I'm certainly not going to sit here and call this game garbage because they have put time sinks into the game when WoW had worse.

 

Paladin weapon quest anyone???

 

Peace.

 

60% Mounts were at 40.

 

And very few did those quests, such as from SW - Loch Modan or SW to Southshore, but they were there to introduce you to those zones. many alliance players skipped hillsbrad.

[Qandor]

How can you possibly have exploration in a game such as SWTOR when assets are repeated over and over ad nauseum. Go into virtually any building in Tatoine, for example, and it is the exact same building. Any warehouse is the exact same wharehouse.

Every cave is virtually the same cave.

 

The days where games were built with care and hand crafted are over. Massive open unique dungeons gone, Unique racial starting areas all gone.

 

Each iteration of these games eliminates more a more. Virtually every quest on Hoth the NPC's are commenting on how cold they are and yet there isn't a single structure on the whole planet with a door on it. Weather I guess also elimated as an unecessary frills & extra. Day/night cycle also eliminated. Hell SWTOR has even gone the extra mile, for the first time as far as I know in any MMO, and even eliminated water for all intents and purposes since there is no water more than knee deep.

 

These companies are running out of things to eliminate.

 

How on earth can you even comprehend the thought of exploration when the worlds are as bland as they are. Explore for what? To see the same cave or building yet again?

[Volksworgen]

Great post OP and oh boy..... the fanboys have got find a way to bash the game. WoW's lack of loading screens is enough to put swtor on its *** in comparison. nuff said.

[kraniumz]

As been mentioned, the disjointed feel of Tor has a lot to do with the world spanning across planets and galaxies. This isnt the case with WoW which only exists on a single planet spreading across continents. With Tor, it is almost impossible to replicate the wow feel of exploration because the game world is spread across the universe.

 

Players need to travel via their own space ships, theres no changing that unless you want to see stuff like teleport ala star trek or portals like in wow. I think this is not an option for most players for obvious reasons.

 

Personally what the game really needs is an end game planet that is both large and open that allows players to converge and do stuff either together or against each other. A stronghold that matters and relevant to you as either a pve and pvp player. Ilum was the answer to this but it has gone stale and the pvp aspect of it seems to be broken beyond repair. A dynamic event of sort can go a long way to ensure players stay engaged and relevant to Tor.

[twinionx]

My 2 cents is that if SWTOR wants to enhance exploration, the devs should look into single player game like freelancer for inspiration.

 

Instead of planets, it should be systems.

 

Each system will have a key planet. E.g. Tatoo System has two suns and key planet tatooine. The rest of the systems you can add things like asteroid field, space anomoalys etc..

 

Hoth System should have the famous asteroid field complete with the iconic giant space worm (or its ancestor) (maybe kill some mynocks inside the worm's body)

 

You can have tons of stuff in space. Again, look to freelancer. They have some of the most beautiful stuff in space. Derelicts, barren planets, mines, prison stations, ice fields, debris field, smog etc... (let's throw away realism for now since we are talking about starwars with SLUGS in space)

 

For key planets, just allow landing and taking off from spaceport without going through hoops. If no spaceport, then have a landing platform (think Bespin, Phantom Menace Tatooine). The landing and taking off sequence can be cutscenes or a slow transition scene.

 

To travel between systems, the dev can implement hyperspace lanes. (think portal in space). click on the entrance to hyperspace lane, hyper in, hyper out and then we should be at destination. The traveling time can be depending on distance between two systems.

 

Transition between interior of starship view (i.e. character view) and exterior starship view can be done as follows. If I click on the captain's seat/galaxy map, it should transit to exterior starship view (similar to current space combat view). Press escape or some buttons to transit back to interior view (character mode) again.

 

There should also be space pirates, tractor beams and boarding actions in space. Would love some pirates to attempt boarding my starship and my companions and I fighting them. Maybe the annoying ship droid gets blast to pieces and a quest to re-built him (but maybe I missed out his voice motivator....

 

Also implement some randomly generated space missions you can get from ship computer e.g.

 

* ferry VIPs or people on the run (think Luke and Ben) to different places

* escort missions

* small scale battles

* hauling goods (who do you think deliver the mails from GTN?)

* treasure/bounty hunting

* SMUGGLING goods or people

 

Again, let me repeat, look to freelancer for inspiration. The controls are already similar.

Edited March 13, 2012 by twinionx

[TheHoodedFang]

Ghostcrawler is pretty much single handedly responsible for WoWs decline over the last few years, so I don't really consider him credible.

 

Considering he is going to dumb the game down even further when MoP drops, I wouldn't put much faith in his words.

[Penguinman]

Greg Street is an idiot. That is all ever need be said.

[Game-Hermit]

What they did right: It's an expansion.

What they did wrong: Everything else.

 

Even though I know nothing about the expansion other than it containing kung fu pandas I know my opinion is right. Why? The WoW developers do the opposite of what I think they should 100% of the time. It's as reliable as the sun rising.

 

I agree with this. One of WoW's greatest accomplishments was having massive continents with different zones that you could explore, have WPVP, and have seemless transitions across lands.

You just described every MMO that isn't Eve, SWTOR, SWG or Planetside. How is that an accomplishment?

Edited March 13, 2012 by Game-Hermit

[ConradLionhart]

Ghostcrawler is pretty much single handedly responsible for WoWs decline over the last few years, so I don't really consider him credible.

 

Considering he is going to dumb the game down even further when MoP drops, I wouldn't put much faith in his words.

 

I wouldn't attack him that badly, because it was thanks to him that paladins could finally tank and have a taunt button. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Madprophetus]

The game is old and the same old thing over, and over, and over agian. That is what they did wrong.

 

QFT. SWTOR = Burning Crusade wow. The talent trees are terrible. I was hoping for something based on bioware's hugely awesome customization as seen in KOTOR 1/2 and Mass Effect. Particularly, Mass Effect 3 does this pretty much perfectly. It was a big disappointment to see that bioware missed the memo about filler talents being filler.

[Game-Hermit]

QFT. SWTOR = Burning Crusade wow. The talent trees are terrible. I was hoping for something based on bioware's hugely awesome customization as seen in KOTOR 1/2 and Mass Effect. Particularly, Mass Effect 3 does this pretty much perfectly. It was a big disappointment to see that bioware missed the memo about filler talents being filler.

So many things wrong with this. Bioware didn't make KOTOR 2. The KOTOR combat system was copy/pasted from D&D. That includes the perks or whatever they called them. Mass Effect is a shooter first. While I haven't played 3 I'm assuming it's similar to the other two games in being very light on the RPG elements. Also, unless something major changed with 3 the mass effect skill system was 90% filler. There were only like 3 or 4 actual "talents" from each bar. The rest of the levels were just a slight damage boost or something.

[Ansultares]

I found WoW version of exploration pitiful and boring. There's nothing rewarding to it. There is exploration in SWTOR, granted its not got as many nooks & crannies to fall into or off of but you dont jus twalk around and go OMG there's a data cron. You actually have to look for it and figure out how to get to it (less you cheat) Infact some of them you can't even do on your own. It has exploration just on a different scale.

Datacrons aren't exploration content, they're completionist content.

 

Finding venders that sell rare mats or recipes = exploring

 

Finding the right location to fish = exploring

 

Finding odd little islands that have weird mobs only found on that island = exploring

 

Finding locations under water that are just neat = exploring

 

Finding certain rare mobs spawning in the back of an inconspicuous cave = exploring

 

A lot of exploration in games is ruined by the sheer fact you can look up things on the internet, but you still need to first figure out what you are trying to look up and for players that enjoy exploring (going off the quest path) it can be fun.

These are good examples of exploration content.

 

I know there's some in TOR, but most of it is hidden behind red shields.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Ansultares

[Senatsu]

I've played WoW, Aion, STO, Rift and now SW:TOR. I don't have a petagree in MMO's but all the while I played Aion and STO I never left WoW. My rogue was still the toon that I couldn't wait to log into to play..

 

With that said.. We are listening to anything Greg Street says and taking it for more than a grain of salt? Seriously? He is the person responsible for Wrath, and then..... the person responsible for Cataclysm. Complete and total opposites of the spectrum. While Wrath may have been a financial success for Blizzard, it was a failure for the Genre as a whole.

 

While I will never 'slam' WoW unfairly, as it was the first game to get me into MMO's, I have lost all faith in Blizzard because of Greg Street and will only return upon his termination.

 

QFT.

 

5c