1.2 = best pvp gear for free, and no reason to play rated. people are quitting

[MPagano]

I think on the whole the argument is 50/50 half for, and half against. You act as if only 5% of the pvpers out there don't share your views.

 

I am FOR gear progression in the game. And I also think this is just another step to make this game easy mode.

 

You're probably correct that it's a near even split. However, I'm not sure why you've inferred that I think 95% of people feel the same way as I do. More people I've spoken with feel the same way, but I certainly don't represent the population (nor do the forums).

 

Let's also point out that this game is easy mode. I thought WoW had dumbed down the genre, but this game is making WoW look like string theory.

[MPagano]

Those who are more ''hardcore'' pvp'er will leave before me cause im a Star wars sucker and I play with some friends. But eventually that'll mean that the game is too easy for me as well, so Ill end up leaving..

 

Hardcore pvp players don't want to chase gear. They want a game like GW2.

[Sugarray]

And its been said a thousand times in these threads.

 

IT WOULD NOT BE PURPOSELESS!

 

You can still have tons of progression (likely more intact) without STATS. But that's Ll this is about, you people can't live without your stats. That's why you don't play Battlefield for pvp, you k.ow you suck without an advantage. If it was just about progressing yourself or toon then that's what rankings are for.

 

Why can't you people just man up and accept the best way to say you are better then someone else is to beat them without a numbers advantage.

 

I dont need a stat advantage to be, call it very good in PvP. I need a purpose.

 

Fyi you know nothing about how skilled I am, in fact your stand on this indicates that you spend 2 hours on PvP a week and cry cause you get killed. When you do get your so called Equal terms you will still fail, what will your excuse be then?

 

Lastly I've allready said that I can compete with the best without a gear advantage, my problem is i need a reason to play PvP more than 1 hour a day etc. Vanity isnt it, for me and A LOT of other players.

[richardya]

Hardcore pvp players don't want to chase gear. They want a game like GW2.

 

ToR is not a hardcore PvP game. Its MMO based PvP.

[Incendergel]

And its been said a thousand times in these threads.

 

IT WOULD NOT BE PURPOSELESS!

 

You can still have tons of progression (likely more intact) without STATS. But that's Ll this is about, you people can't live without your stats. That's why you don't play Battlefield for pvp, you k.ow you suck without an advantage. If it was just about progressing yourself or toon then that's what rankings are for.

 

Why can't you people just man up and accept the best way to say you are better then someone else is to beat them without a numbers advantage.

 

I'm going to call you out here and label you as one of the people you are talking about.

 

Why? Easy. Because I play republic side. I'm already out manned 3:1 on a good day and more than likely 6:1 on the rest. I sat through the whole Ilum patch fiasco and still managed to stay subscribed even though I know the imperials on my side got Insta-Gibbed battlemaster titles.

 

I leveled through 50. I saved valor for my 5 bags. I bought a bag ahead of time pre centurion bag inflation. I started at a disadvantage, and continued at a disadvantage and still managed to have fun. I earned every one of my valor ranks and actually kept it as close to my max level as possible.

 

Looking at who I queue with I still am at a disadvantage. Whoopie.

[Dego_Locc]

That's why you don't play Battlefield for pvp, you k.ow you suck without an advantage.

 

Actually I do, im a level 4O on BF3 with over 70 jet hours and over 2000 jet kills. I play those type of games for fair, "equal" PVP", I pay a sub to pvp in MMO's too however, but for reason of progression.

 

That it just how I play these games, I play ALL games though. Bf3, skyrim, still play counter strike too(played professional CAL leagues. Hell I even play ps3 and 3ds games too.

 

 

And I support the end of easy mod in MMO's and favor gear progression over weak color changes, and mounts.

 

But that is just me, some are like me, some are not. ect ect.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Dego_Locc

[krzyboys]

Let them quit. I'd rather those type of people were not in the game to start with. Warzones need to be competative and not all about geeks who play 24/7 and have the best gear.

 

I could not agree more, PvP is about skill, if anyone wants to stomp people there are plenty of games in which you can play 24/7 get best gear and have fun. i you are this type of person go to those games and leave. php is all about competition, like any sport in the world, all gear is equal and its all about pure skill,

[Sugarray]

Hardcore pvp players don't want to chase gear. They want a game like GW2.

 

Well we cant know that for sure yet.

Im keeping a close eye to GW2 as well, but I think it will have a lot of problems as well.

[Sugarray]

I could not agree more, PvP is about skill, if anyone wants to stomp people there are plenty of games in which you can play 24/7 get best gear and have fun. i you are this type of person go to those games and leave. php is all about competition, like any sport in the world, all gear is equal and its all about pure skill,

 

I dont know if you are a troll or handicapped in the face..

 

You commented on something thats on like the 1st page?

 

People play MMO for a lot of different reasons, the game should contain content that caters to casual, hardcore & something in between.

 

Why dont you tell all the casual people with their I PAIZEDED MONEY argument to go buy a single player game where they can submit cheats and get weapons or w/e immediately?

 

This game seem to only cater casual players, and thats a shame

[MartyrLXXVII]

I dont need a stat advantage to be, call it very good in PvP. I need a purpose.

 

Fyi you know nothing about how skilled I am, in fact your stand on this indicates that you spend 2 hours on PvP a week and cry cause you get killed. When you do get your so called Equal terms you will still fail, what will your excuse be then?

 

Lastly I've allready said that I can compete with the best without a gear advantage, my problem is i need a reason to play PvP more than 1 hour a day etc. Vanity isnt it, for me and A LOT of other players.

 

And you have no idea how good I am. The difference is if what you claim is true then you shod have not problem with vanity gear and rankings being the purpose like myself and many others.

 

But the fact that progression isn't good enough for you and you -must- have stats then it raises questions about your claims.

 

Myself though, find one post I ever made where I complained about losing. You won't find one, nor will you find one from me complaining about not wanting to have to grind the gear as is, I've done what I've had to. Doesn't mean I don't think stat'ed gear progression is a very poor model in pvp.

[CrunkShizzle]

This game seem to only cater casual players, and thats a shame

 

well things could change.but yeah,so far from what ive seen this game seems to only be targeted towards casuals

 

the only timesinks ive seen so far are crew skills.and even then,there credit sinks more then time sinks

[MartyrLXXVII]

I'm going to call you out here and label you as one of the people you are talking about.

 

Why? Easy. Because I play republic side. I'm already out manned 3:1 on a good day and more than likely 6:1 on the rest. I sat through the whole Ilum patch fiasco and still managed to stay subscribed even though I know the imperials on my side got Insta-Gibbed battlemaster titles.

 

I leveled through 50. I saved valor for my 5 bags. I bought a bag ahead of time pre centurion bag inflation. I started at a disadvantage, and continued at a disadvantage and still managed to have fun. I earned every one of my valor ranks and actually kept it as close to my max level as possible.

 

Looking at who I queue with I still am at a disadvantage. Whoopie.

 

So there is a.population imbalance and ilum has been crap from day one in every aspect. What does any of that have to do with pvp as a whole?

 

Open world pvp with only 2 factions will never ever work. That's a completely separate issue however. Has nothing to do with a pvp gear progression system. Especially when you can go through the system and never set foot in ilum.

[Kalaesk]

So there is a.population imbalance and ilum has been crap from day one in every aspect. What does any of that have to do with pvp as a whole?

 

Open world pvp with only 2 factions will never ever work. That's a completely separate issue however. Has nothing to do with a pvp gear progression system. Especially when you can go through the system and never set foot in ilum.

 

Open World can work with 2 factions, it just doesn't here because the Empire classes all have a higher "coolness" factor. Would you rather be throwing pebbles or lightning? Would you rather have a tazer or a flamethrower?

[Sugarray]

And you have no idea how good I am. The difference is if what you claim is true then you shod have not problem with vanity gear and rankings being the purpose like myself and many others.

 

But the fact that progression isn't good enough for you and you -must- have stats then it raises questions about your claims.

 

Myself though, find one post I ever made where I complained about losing. You won't find one, nor will you find one from me complaining about not wanting to have to grind the gear as is, I've done what I've had to. Doesn't mean I don't think stat'ed gear progression is a very poor model in pvp.

 

To be fair I dont know if I have a problem with vanity rewards, I just have a feeling It wont feel ''worth'' it- Regardless A lot of pvpers have a problem with it.

 

I've never complained about losing to a class or anything in that nature either.

 

Bottom line is if, as I suspect, vanity is a poor substitute then I'd play PvP a lot less and eventually reconsider subbing as I believe I could get the same pleasure from Battlefield - if not more as they care about their PvP.

 

It is also obvious that I am not the only one in this boat.

[MartyrLXXVII]

well things could change.but yeah,so far from what ive seen this game seems to only be targeted towards casuals

 

the only timesinks ive seen so far are crew skills.and even then,there credit sinks more then time sinks

 

You do realize that is how the game was designed right, and that pvp is a complete after thought?

 

To be honest the only reason I do pvp in swtor is because I think the class balance is damn good compared to many others.

[Dego_Locc]

Hi welcome

 

Can I have your stuff?

 

Sure, but do you really want it? I mean you probably already have the same stuff, and if you don't you can just get it your self in a couple hours with the easy mode in this game.

[jizerai]

Open World can work with 2 factions, it just doesn't here because the Empire classes all have a higher "coolness" factor. Would you rather be throwing pebbles or lightning? Would you rather have a tazer or a flamethrower?

 

Arbitrary opinions are arbitrary. I like the look of Troopers way more than I do Bounty Hunters. I like the look of Jedi Sentinels more than I do Marauders. Besides the ***-hat I like the Sorcerer-look more than the Sage's.

 

In the end, it's a personal choice, not because something is "cooler" by default.

[Sugarray]

You do realize that is how the game was designed right, and that pvp is a complete after thought?

 

To be honest the only reason I do pvp in swtor is because I think the class balance is damn good compared to many others.

 

Assuming PvP was just an afterthought - why would you implement it if you don't care to make it good. - You'd ''falsely'' lure people to buy the game in the thought that PvP would be maybe 50% of the game, and when they leave they would be angry about it - bad for BW and EA Image.

[MartyrLXXVII]

Open World can work with 2 factions, it just doesn't here because the Empire classes all have a higher "coolness" factor. Would you rather be throwing pebbles or lightning? Would you rather have a tazer or a flamethrower?

 

Same thing was said about destruction faction in WAR. But there were still servers with with an Order (or whatever the faction was called) advantage. People claim there are ways to manage faction populations with just 2, ill believe it when I see it however, and I'm not holding my breath.

 

But back on point, what does it have to do with a gear progression?

 

WAR has open world pvp gear even, guess how you got it, zerging. No challenge, no skill, and it offered a massive advantage. WAR turned out to be a complete failure in its pvp execution due to many reasons. But one of those was gear progression. This also failed in WoW arenas, are we seeing a pattern yet?

 

Take the progression without the stats, makes everything better, balance not the.least of which.

[Sugarray]

Same thing was said about destruction faction in WAR. But there were still servers with with an Order (or whatever the faction was called) advantage. People claim there are ways to manage faction populations with just 2, ill believe it when I see it however, and I'm not holding my breath.

 

But back on point, what does it have to do with a gear progression?

 

WAR has open world pvp gear even, guess how you got it, zerging. No challenge, no skill, and it offered a massive advantage. WAR turned out to be a complete failure in its pvp execution due to many reasons. But one of those was gear progression. This also failed in WoW arenas, are we seeing a pattern yet?

 

Take the progression without the stats, makes everything better, balance not the.least of which.

 

There are many opinions as to why WoW ''failed'' Imo people had exhausted the game after 6 years of play, you kinda want something new.

[Dego_Locc]

Same thing was said about destruction faction in WAR. But there were still servers with with an Order (or whatever the faction was called) advantage. People claim there are ways to manage faction populations with just 2, ill believe it when I see it however, and I'm not holding my breath.

 

But back on point, what does it have to do with a gear progression?

 

WAR has open world pvp gear even, guess how you got it, zerging. No challenge, no skill, and it offered a massive advantage. WAR turned out to be a complete failure in its pvp execution due to many reasons. But one of those was gear progression. This also failed in WoW arenas, are we seeing a pattern yet?

 

Take the progression without the stats, makes everything better, balance not the.least of which.

 

Actually the way you got gear in WAR was a total luck factor, and ONLY if you won the a city siege, if you lost, you got nothing worth a crap.

 

And you could win 10 city sieges and still not get any warlord or sovergn gear. It was so bad on the RNG that the only way guilds would take any pubs into a city instance was if they agreed to not roll on sovergn if they were below a certain rank. Seeing how it takes months to even have a high enough rank, the attitude was "why should they get a chance to roll on something they will prolly never even get to use"

 

I loved War PVP btw, gear progression was a bit too brutal in that game for latecomers though. Still SWTOR is straight care bear easy mode on all fronts, gear if you win or lose, within a month or two at the most for most players. Yuck.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Dego_Locc

[MartyrLXXVII]

To be fair I dont know if I have a problem with vanity rewards, I just have a feeling It wont feel ''worth'' it- Regardless A lot of pvpers have a problem with it.

 

I've never complained about losing to a class or anything in that nature either.

 

Bottom line is if, as I suspect, vanity is a poor substitute then I'd play PvP a lot less and eventually reconsider subbing as I believe I could get the same pleasure from Battlefield - if not more as they care about their PvP.

 

It is also obvious that I am not the only one in this boat.

 

Now that's a reasonable argument. I'd say is vanity progression isn't good enough that's a shame. But stat progression in pvp is never a good thing imo.

 

I would also agree that pvp here is never going to be as good as an fps, but I play it for the variety and the ability to customize my toon in some fashion. More fun when friends and enemies that know you can tell its you without seeing the name.

[BDutch]

If there were an unlimited number of players, enough brackets, and a good match making system, then you would only fight players that had equal skill and gear. If you had progression in that system, you would never gain an advantage because as soon as you got more gear you would be matched against other players that also had better gear. The math would be a wash, and your gear upgrades would essentially be cosmetic.

 

The only way that you'll really be able to see a gear advantage is by being matched against players that you shouldn't need an advantage over to begin with. I'm just not sympathetic to people who threaten to leave if they don't have this. I prefer the systems that are designed to equalize players (bolstering), bring the community together as much as possible (less brackets), and encourage new players to join in (1.2).

[Incendergel]

Same thing was said about destruction faction in WAR. But there were still servers with with an Order (or whatever the faction was called) advantage. People claim there are ways to manage faction populations with just 2, ill believe it when I see it however, and I'm not holding my breath.

 

But back on point, what does it have to do with a gear progression?

 

WAR has open world pvp gear even, guess how you got it, zerging. No challenge, no skill, and it offered a massive advantage. WAR turned out to be a complete failure in its pvp execution due to many reasons. But one of those was gear progression. This also failed in WoW arenas, are we seeing a pattern yet?

 

Take the progression without the stats, makes everything better, balance not the.least of which.

 

DaOC worked fine - with progression. Progression was tied to abilities gained with realm rank.

 

DaOC also had portals for weekly stats of various things. Combine the two and there was a reason to play. To add some clarification you could PvP at your own pace and still make the leader boards. You could zerg. You could roam 8 on 8. You could solo.

 

There wasn't pre ToA tier levels of gear. You can blame WoW for that. On top of that what PvE gear there was was mostly cosmetic....sword with flames or staffs with different textures.

[FriscoFrez]

If there were an unlimited number of players, enough brackets, and a good match making system, then you would only fight players that had equal skill and gear. If you had progression in that system, you would never gain an advantage because as soon as you got more gear you would be matched against other players that also had better gear. The math would be a wash, and your gear upgrades would essentially be cosmetic.

 

The only way that you'll really be able to see a gear advantage is by being matched against players that you shouldn't need an advantage over to begin with. I'm just not sympathetic to people who threaten to leave if they don't have this. I prefer the systems that are designed to equalize players (bolstering), bring the community together as much as possible (less brackets), and encourage new players to join in (1.2).

 

for me it's pretty obvious that this game lacks players so the best ide they came up with is to elimanate the hard core players and just go with the casul players, I'm pretty sure Bioware wished that they hade made a better game so that more players would take the empty slots that many server have, this empty slots are going to increase, for me there is nothing left to do in this game as a BM full geared, im done game over. For me the mmo saga continues in anothere game, couse this game was the worst mmo i have ever played, it didn't feel like star wars but the worst thing it didn't feel like an MMO. i really hope that ppl that are going to stay in this game really enjoy this kind of fix becouse I'm pretty sure that most of the MMO vets are going to go next MMO game that is coming around in the conrer, Bioware did a bad job on the starwars saga, i mean it dosent eavan feel like star wars.