Why is watcman the better line

[Ashu-ri]

I'm looking over my skills, skill points, etc. I'm fairly newish to sentinal, 28, and I'm just wondering, most of the builds I've seen are watchman builds. Why is watchman better than a combat or focus build? I would just like someone to explain it to me.

[Bejarid]

Watchman is assumed to be better. This perception comes mostly, I presume, from the tree's ability to reduce the cooldown on Kick, the heals, the DoTs, and the ability to make Force Camo an immunity bubble. It should never be said that Watchman is "better;" it's simply preferred by the majority. That doesn't make them right, just means they all enjoy playing the same spec.

 

I've played all three trees (only did Focus until about 32 while leveling), and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Combat is by far my favorite. Focus is great for mobility as you can talent a second leap at 20. The tree, however, lacks a bit of depth for high-level gameplay - except, perhaps, in PvP. Watchman is nice; the self-heals are great, the party-heals are useful, the quicker Kick is good, but the playstyle just wasn't me. Too much micro-managing and reliance on, in my opinion, and awkward cooldown mechanic (your only two sources of burn damage are both on a relatively lengthy cooldown compared to their duration).

 

What Combat lacks in utility, it more than compensates for raw damage. Did a hard mode today with a bunch of guildies who normally run with a Watchman and they were a little worried when they realized I wasn't. However, except for certain mechanics and an inopportune D/C, we rolled right through just as easily, they said, as if the other guy had been there.

 

So, basically, try them all and see what suits your style best.

[Ashu-ri]

Thanks for your honesty. I started wondering about it when I didn't run a certain class quest boss in Juyo form (for watchman) and started using the defense buff for my concentration rather than the Zen Juyo form buff (that alone bothers me - a buff on a skill that you can reasonably use once while the buff is up?). I'll try to look up a combat build, see if kicking it around I like it better. So far I'm only soloing, so the only person I'll hurt with the change is myself while I get used to it. It may be that Watchman may be the superior build for some, but not all.

[Bejarid]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#501bcZGGrbddMoMsZG.1

 

This is the build I use. At 28, you should be able to fully trick out Ataro and get the Blade Storm auto-crit talent. Combat will definitely take a bit of getting used to and, just because you're no longer Watchman, keep Cauterize where you can get at it - it's still nice for those big, meaty elite and boss mobs. Also, at 40 when you get Blade Rush, take Strike off your bar; Blade Rush interacts with Zen the same way that Strike does, but BR also auto-procs a Form Strike, which gives your Blade Storm the auto-crit. And, from my experience, you should be hunting for power/surge gear for Combat - want those Blade Storm auto-crits as large as possible.

[GoggleBoi]

Just to add my two cents, Bejarid is correct. Watchmen is not superior, it is just different. I played combat from 1-32, then switched to watchman until about 40, before going back to combat.

 

During the 30-40 range, especially before doc, watchman was great. The healin kept me up longer, and the burns meant that if I did have to bail, the NPC was still takin damage. But Watchman doesn't put out big numbers, from what I have noticed. That isn't to say the damage is terrible, it is not, it is just spread out. Combat, on the other hand, can do some serious hurt in a very short time; great, as you tend to be squishier.

 

For PvP, the two play differently, and ultimately have different roles. I really miss Watchman's 0 distance leap, and reduced Kick CD. But I cannot live without Combat's auto-crit and Displacement. Also, when talented, Combat has a second semi-CC breaker in force camo.

 

Again, Bejarid has the right of it; play all of them, find your niche. Each is going to match you differently, and while I loved Watchman, Combat suits me better, and I cannot get the same scores while in Watchman.

Edited March 10, 2012 by GoggleBoi

[supermandrew]

I leveled Combat till Alderan, and switched to Watchmen simply because I was getting stomped and needed to try something different. Keep in mind this was Pre-doc. I went to Watchmen at about 32 and my survivability went up ten-fold.

 

I agree with the other folks that Watchmen is not necessarily better. The 3 trees involve different play styles, and it is up to you and how you do your rotation. Watchmen just seemed to make the most sense for me.

 

As far as damage output goes, I have outperformed higher level combat specs in pvp on more than one occasion. Watchmen damage gives you some really vital buffs to keep your health up, and then relies more on burn/sustained damage over time to bleed the enemies off (rather than the big surged-output that Combat has).

 

I actually spec'd back to combat around 45, and started dying left and right once again. Now, this could just be that I had gotten so used to watchmen that I couldn't get a solid rotation down otherwise. Like the other posts said, it is all about finding your niche.

 

I will add this in regards to Bejarld's comments about the burn abilities having lengthy CD's. While this is true, the Watchmen tree has further abilities the higher up you get that reset these cool downs constantly.

 

I will probably give Combat another go or two because I think I can make it work at endgame, but Watchmen IMO is the best way to level if you are looking for increased survivability.

[LancerKagato]

played combat till lvl 28 and had a hard time w/ that since i switched to watchman ive seen huge dfference....mostly in the PvP relm. if i had no problem respeccing all the time and it wasnt so expensive id prolly try running focus for PvE only but that stuff get pricey fast

[Hizoka]

it is better because the math behind the spec says so. All games are govenren ultimatly by math, and by the math combat and focus just cannot compete currently.

[nachoman_randy]

Watchman vs. Combat. The old debate:

 

Watchman:

 

-6 sec kick (for pvp and pve works like a charm, cept in operations): Bosses like Ironfist (wich have a nasty nuke) are easier with Watchman and healers and tanks love it especially when you and your team are barely geared for HMs.

 

-4 sec damage inmunity force camo: Great when you got caught in a nasty aoe. You can also pop it and not move in fights like Ghjarg (or something, his name is dumb). In pvp you can pass trough the huttball traps or just ignore damage agaist other dot focused classes and aoe heavy classes.

 

-No min distance for force leap and reduced CD. Not much to tell here since watchman need to spend 4 points when combat spends 5, but one of them gives them an auto crit, so is a tie.

 

-Dots do damage even if you are not in melee. Negligable agaisnt Ops bosses but really noticiable in pvp. I cant ccount the times a sorc or op just push me and died while attempting to run or land on hilmself a heal.

 

-Heals. 18%guaranteed heals every 12-15 seconds is nothing to sneaze at, espeacially when you can use force camo, saber ward, force stasis, pacify or guarded by the force to really capitalize of it.

 

-Better centering generation. This is the second reason watchman is preffered by me. More zen is awesome.

 

-More synergy betwheen skills. You can place your burns and use force stasis with zen and dont take damage while your target is burning and you are healing yourself and gaining time for your cds to recover. You can also pop master strike instead and squeaze even more damage but without the control.

 

-Juyo form and Merciless Slash. This is why i think Watchman is better. Juyo will give you more than ataru will ever do. Why? Because of the end game gear and buffs. With 1500+ str, force might and valor and stims you are a power house. Add then adrenals, relics, inspiration or the pvp damage buff and you are a freakin monster. This is more noticiable with merciless slash.

 

 

Combat.

 

-Control. Combat have more control over his target than watchman. Sadly this dont do a **** in pve. While I was tryng combat (I have been watchman all my life, even before i started to read the forums) I did noticed an easier time to control the fights agaist players. You can root them, twice, you are hard to kite and you can break cc. In terms of pvp I think combat is almost on par with watchman.

 

-Steadier Focus generation without using strike. Combat get 1 focus every 6 seconds, got reduced cost in their burst move (blade rushvs merciless slash) and have zealous strike on a shorter cd. As a watchman is easier to mess your rotation than combat (getting the second stack of merciless is hard, even more in pvp).

 

-Armor pen. Altrough Watchman does more damage with Juyo than precission slash will ever do, Combat selling point is catching ppl of guard when they lose a ton of a hp in seconds. Even Tanks cant ignore this. This skill will also explaing the amount of acc that the combat tree got.

 

-Reduced damage from aoe. Awesome but a watchman can take this too if they got enough acc from gear, so is a tie.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Overall, I think Watchman is better it brings more to the table and have more sinergy than combat. Combat needs a buff to ataru (like i said, juyo is better; it multiplies all you damage instead of adding to it) and more sinergy if wants to be on par.

 

Of focus, I've never tried it, nor I want to.

 

 

EDIT: I enjoy combat and if you do, Im not saying you should change to watchman. I can make combat works, and I belive so do you, but right now you'll get more results with watchman. Play whatever you feel like it.

Edited March 10, 2012 by nachoman_randy

[Kaosbain]

So from all these posts, the Focus tree is pretty much not worth it?

[Eszi]

Watchman = better survivability, better saber form, better zen from better saber form, better overall damage, 1337 interruptz

 

Combat = better burst...but it requires a setup, lolwat-form, meh-zen

 

Focus = use aoe, die after that

[nachoman_randy]

So from all these posts, the Focus tree is pretty much not worth it?

 

I haven't even specc focus once. I don't say is bad but I don't know nothing about it so I wont talk about it.

[Nyjin]

I've specced all 3 trees, and done very well with all of them, although I'd have to say Watchman currently is the best line.

 

Watchman- Most Mobility/Utility (From Kick/Leap/Heals) and puts out amazing sustained damage with it's DoT's and good burst with Merciless.

 

Combat-Great burst damage with Precision, Blade Rush/Slash strings and some good Blade Storm Crits. However, after Precision (if you're not stunned/knockbacked after using it...which can make it useless) you're left with hoping you have Zen or sort of bust. It also has buggy moves (Blade rush animation and Dehibilation talent).

 

Focus-AOE damage, disables, second leap, hardest single hitting move and some decent crits (+30 perc to all force move crits).

 

I'd rank it

 

1. Watchman (PVP and PVE)

2. Focus (PVP only, never use Focus in PVE)

3. Combat (PVE is second best, third for PVP)

 

Combat needs a serious buff, despite the fact that it's fun to play, because of Precision Slash's mechanics and buggy talents. Focus requires you to build up your Sweep, but is far more forgiving than Combat. Watchman requires you to manage cooldowns a little more but has much less build-up.