I move for a vote of no confidence.

[BanesScion]

So, Im curious, please tell me that there are other ppl out there who think this Legacy crap is stupid? Yea the name thing is cool, you get your name out, ppl know who you are. But SERIOUSLY? A smuggler being able to use Force powers? Giving Agents the possibility for another stun? Come on guys.. Yall can do better than that.. What ever happened to Canon?

[livnthedream]

So, Im curious, please tell me that there are other ppl out there who think this Legacy crap is stupid? Yea the name thing is cool, you get your name out, ppl know who you are. But SERIOUSLY? A smuggler being able to use Force powers? Giving Agents the possibility for another stun? Come on guys.. Yall can do better than that.. What ever happened to Canon?

 

pretty much everything with legacy IS canon. ill admit jedi sith are a little over the top, and its arguable that there were more, but the reasoning isnt bad enough, or enough of a stretch based on the other canon we have to really phase me. its pretty easy to poke holes in the canon as it is.

[Marcus]

blah blah blah blah

 

So you admit it, you are in the minority in the sense that you like the game the way it is. Unfortunately, Bioware didn't make this game and spend 135 million to break even. They are in it for a profit. In order to do that, they need to cater to the majority, i.e. people like me. This falls under the basic rules of business.

[JediElf]

So...you want this game to be, World of Warcraft: Cataclysm? Ever Quest: Plains of Power?

 

Really?

 

Edited March 11, 2012 by JediElf

[Marcus]

So...you want this game to be, World of Warcraft: Cataclysm? Ever Quest: Plains of Power?

 

Really?

 

 

no, we want it to be good and enjoyable. With the mass exodus of players, it is not.

[Quintan]

So...you want this game to be, World of Warcraft: Cataclysm? Ever Quest: Plains of Power?

 

Really?

 

 

No but Bioware's product in 2012 is about as functional as WoW was in 2007.

 

Bioware ignores what the community wants and instead invents some fail solution for everything(i.e. Server groups) and eventually they will lose a huge number of people.

 

Like it, hate it whatever.... I've seen this happen with every "wow-killer" and their fanboys.

[Darth_Nihilst]

Good points from the OP, but I think you're being a bit irrational. Something to consider: for all intents and purposes, a majority of people will argue that World of Warcraft was a success on multiple levels.

 

With that in mind, I played WoW from release in '05 to pre-Cata, and I watched a game which was called to be everything from "a bridge too far" to "uninspiring" grow into the most successful (whatever metric you wish to use on this point) MMORPG of all time. Everything was broken, and you couldn't go into a major city without lagging out. It took, at least, a year (arguably two) before WoW became the game people grew to know, love, and hate. Forum trolls complained about lore from previous Warcraft games, and claimed that Blizzard wasn't listening to the community. Exactly the same as what everyone comes on here and complains about.

 

I urge people to keep in mind that it has been three months since release. Three. We are in the same realm that WoW was in with "a bridge too far". Consider all of the aspects and people the developers are trying to please, with all of the opinions.

 

 

So before you submit your "vote of no confidence", keep in mind that no MMO is perfect, and even the most successful MMORPG of all time took a long time before they eased into their paces.

 

 

Respectfully.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Darth_Nihilst

[JediElf]

Bioware ignores what the community wants and instead invents some fail solution for everything(i.e. Server groups) and eventually they will lose a huge number of people.

 

I don't know, I think that the guild summit proved they do listen, and that they also have a vision for the game, that they are going to adhere to.

 

I'd hate to see this game loose it's story telling soul, for an iLevel.

Edited March 11, 2012 by JediElf

[Marcus]

Good points from the OP, but I think you're being a bit irrational. Something to consider: for all intents and purposes, a majority of people will argue that World of Warcraft was a success on multiple levels.

 

With that in mind, I played WoW from release in '05 to pre-Cata, and I watched a game which was called to be everything from "a bridge too far" to "uninspiring". Everything was broken, and you couldn't go into a major city without lagging out. It took, at least, a year (arguably two) before WoW became the game people grew to know, love, and hate.

 

I urge people to keep in mind that it has been three months since release. Three. We are in the same realm that WoW was in with "a bridge too far". Consider all of the aspects and people the developers are trying to please, with all of the opinions.

 

 

So before you submit your "vote of no confidence", keep in mind that no MMO is perfect, and even the most successful MMORPG of all time took a long time before they eased into their paces.

 

 

Respectfully.

 

I agree. However, when WOW came out, their biggest competitor was SWG, EQ2, and a couple of other MMO's that never panned out. Today, there are so many MMO's that players are not willing to wait for a game to be polished out. Once it is out, it better be ready or it will have a quick death. Look at Rift. While I never played it myself, it didn't last long. WOW set the standard. If you can't release a game above or at the same level as that standard, then you will lose.

 

What I would have done is simple. I would have released SWTOR with a subscription rate of $5 a month for the 1st year and then increased it to $15 a month. I would have told the entire community this and added in that we will use the first year to polish the game and fix the bugs. This way, people would still want to play the game knowing it has issues and don't mind paying the $5 a month while the kinks are being worked out and so forth.

 

I would also be extremely involved with the player base and LISTEN to what they want and suggestions they make to improve them. Put them to the vote and then implement them once Lucas Arts grants thier approval. After all, the player base is paying me to entertain them.

 

But that is just me.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Marcus

[Ozzone]

I agree. However, when WOW came out, their biggest competitor was SWG, EQ2, and a couple of other MMO's that never panned out.

 

Broadband internet growth had a lot to do with that also.

[Zyillo]

I don't know, I think that the guild summit proved they do listen, and that they also have a vision for the game, that they are going to adhere to.

 

I'd hate to see this game loose it's story telling soul, for an iLevel.

 

I think the guild summit was a lot of "1.2 will fix it" garbage.

 

I also think that the guild summit had too much, "sometime in the future" garbage as well. "We want to do that" does not translate to a time frame.

 

Too many promises that won't be fulfilled.

[Ozzone]

I don't know, I think that the guild summit proved they do listen, and that they also have a vision for the game, that they are going to adhere to.

 

No, it only gives the appearance that they are listening. Actions speak louder than words.

[JediElf]

I think the guild summit was a lot of "1.2 will fix it" garbage.

 

I also think that the guild summit had too much, "sometime in the future" garbage as well. "We want to do that" does not translate to a time frame.

 

Too many promises that won't be fulfilled.

 

Why so negative?

 

Perhaps begin work on your very own MMO?

 

I think Bioware is doing a good job. I mean sure I have my own wishlist, but I'd not say the game is garbage, I bought this game because I love Star Wars and Bioware.

 

Why did you buy the game?

 

Edited March 11, 2012 by JediElf

[Maxlord]

So you admit it, you are in the minority in the sense that you like the game the way it is. Unfortunately, Bioware didn't make this game and spend 135 million to break even. They are in it for a profit. In order to do that, they need to cater to the majority, i.e. people like me. This falls under the basic rules of business.

 

Just curious - why do you think you are part of the "majority"? Is it that you see a lot of posts that mirror your suggestions - or is it that you think the more "hardcore" gamers are a game's bread and butter?

 

Fact is - casuals are what keep a game afloat. Yes, I know this can be argued on some points, but the fact is, if you ignore the casual, all you have left is the "hardcore" - and in a niche game (And despite what people want to think, it IS a niche game), that may not leave enough for Bioware/EA's sustainable 500k per month target.

 

More people are here simply because it is "Star Wars" than are here for a "next gen MMO".

[livnthedream]

So you admit it, you are in the minority in the sense that you like the game the way it is. Unfortunately, Bioware didn't make this game and spend 135 million to break even. They are in it for a profit. In order to do that, they need to cater to the majority, i.e. people like me. This falls under the basic rules of business.

 

thanks for sticking words in my mouth.

 

I agree. However, when WOW came out, their biggest competitor was SWG, EQ2, and a couple of other MMO's that never panned out. Today, there are so many MMO's that players are not willing to wait for a game to be polished out. Once it is out, it better be ready or it will have a quick death. Look at Rift. While I never played it myself, it didn't last long. WOW set the standard. If you can't release a game above or at the same level as that standard, then you will lose.

 

see, your wrong about rift also. last year it made twice what it cost to make. it started with many of the same issues and swtor, and is currently in much better shape than at its launch. attempting to claim mmos HAVE to be finished before launch has been proven multiple times to be false.

 

What I would have done is simple. I would have released SWTOR with a subscription rate of $5 a month for the 1st year and then increased it to $15 a month. I would have told the entire community this and added in that we will use the first year to polish the game and fix the bugs. This way, people would still want to play the game knowing it has issues and don't mind paying the $5 a month while the kinks are being worked out and so forth.

 

making the assumption that the price point itself is the issue. many of the entitled morons seem to feel that paying at any price means they have say in development, which is blatantly not the case. i pay for cable/internet through comcast, so i guess by your reasoning i should get a say on what sy fy airs right? (hint, comcast bought controlling shares in sy fy)

 

I would also be extremely involved with the player base and LISTEN to what they want and suggestions they make to improve them. Put them to the vote and then implement them once Lucas Arts grants thier approval. After all, the player base is paying me to entertain them.

 

But that is just me.

 

that strategy has been proven time and again to fail. democracy, especially on that kind of scale, doesnt work with a playerbase as blatantly ignorant as this one. you wouldnt see nasa polling the public as to which planets we are going to send probes to next, and thats pretty basic rocket science. also, you keep talking about this nebulous majority that you seem to be trying to represent. by every verifiable metric found the game hasnt lost over half its subscriber base. heck, over half its subscriber base isnt even active on the forums. pulling information directly from your behind and screaming repeatedly "i know better" does not make it fact.

Edited March 11, 2012 by LexiCazam
Rude comment - already warned

[lineschmidt]

no, we want it to be good and enjoyable. With the mass exodus of players, it is not.

[Citation needed]

 

Really, you start by insulting anyone who disagrees with your subjective opinion and then follow up with unsubstantiated claims about a mass exodus

 

I'd say your credibility is nearing zero

[Gyndius]

I support the OP 110%

 

Unfortunately it is my understanding that we are the minority on every one of these issues.

 

This game is plagued with casual.

 

Why do you say "plagued" as if casual gaming is the devil? If it weren't for casual gamers the game industry wouldn't be nearly as successful. Nor would this game for that matter. I do, however, agree with the OP on the fact that they need to cater to more than just the casual side of the house. It seems to me that most of the request being made about the Legacy system are for alts to be leveled faster (xp bonus, ability to skip content, sprint/speeder at creation, etc...) which leads me to believe that the "hardcore" aren't as hardcore as they think they are.

 

New game burnout is the number one reason the populations have dropped on the servers. That and midterms/spring break. Or possibly the fact that some people took a week+ off of work to play the game and now they either have lost their job because they spent to much time online or they got burnt out like so many others and are waiting for new/fresh content to hit.

 

I've been playing since early access and didn't get my first lvl 50 until the first weekend in March. I'm almost to the burn out point, but having an old friend from SWG join the game and also the promise of new content has revitalized my spirits. I don't usually spend much time on the forums because it's WAY easier to just ask in General what would probably take me an hour to find/research here. Back on topic though, the OP sounds like they are burnt out and are just looking for something fresh and new, but also, I do agree that some things need to be fixed.

 

I didn't use macros as extensively as some/most in SWG, but I REALLY miss my "loot" macro. Warzones... yes, more, that is all that needs to be said. My guild is to small to do OPS so I can't speak on that subject except for what "sounds" cool, but I'd assume that adding more would be a good thing. Also, I remember my first run though the Colicoid War Games and when I was given the option to sabotage the opposing faction's team I thought that part of the flashpoint was going to be PvP. I'd think that combining PvP with an Op would definitely make things interesting and should have been a no brainer. Ops are completely optional and therefore those who don't like PvP (sometime I don't) wouldn't have to participate, but that also means you can't put EPIC/UNIQUE loot drops in that Op that can't be sold on the GTN.

 

I was never really into the space part of SWG, though I did finally get master pilot just before NGE, I really can't say anything good/bad about it in this game. I'd probably be more apt to doing space missions if I could pilot more than one type of ship.

 

Just sayin'

[TKMaster]

Man, to bad this isnt an online MMORPG...then they could add in patches and expansion to fix the issues with the ga....oh wait......

[TKMaster]

No but Bioware's product in 2012 is about as functional as WoW was in 2007.

Bioware ignores what the community wants and instead invents some fail solution for everything(i.e. Server groups) and eventually they will lose a huge number of people.

 

Like it, hate it whatever.... I've seen this happen with every "wow-killer" and their fanboys.

 

And WoW was as functional in 2004 (WoW's real launch date, not 2007) as EQ was in 1999. And so it will be with every MMO ever released.

 

Welcome to the genre, enjoy your stay.

Edited March 11, 2012 by TKMaster

[plompkin]

And WoW was as functional in 2004 (WoW's real launch date, not 2007) as EQ was in 1999. And so it will be with every MMO ever released.

 

Welcome to the genre, enjoy your stay.

 

At least bugs get squashed pretty quickly here. It took Blizzard four and a half months to figure out how to stop a flight master from falling through the ground and de-spawning for an hour...

 

Vanilla was awful.

[TKMaster]

At least bugs get squashed pretty quickly here. It took Blizzard four and a half months to figure out how to stop a flight master from falling through the ground and de-spawning for an hour...

 

Vanilla was awful.

 

Remeber how the entire game crashed for over a week during the 1st halloween when they added the decorations to the cities?

 

If the ADHD crowd that throws a tantrum over the smallest thing here had played any other MMO at launch they'd have probably found them hanging in thier closet. These kids need to get a grip on reality.

[plompkin]

Remeber how the entire game crashed for over a week during the 1st halloween when they added the decorations to the cities?

 

If the ADHD crowd that throws a tantrum over the smallest thing here had played any other MMO at launch they'd have probably found them hanging in thier closet. These kids need to get a grip on reality.

 

The Rend Blackhand bug was infuriating to no end. Or Barrens, with one graveyard combined with "epic" alliance assaults on random towns. Or how post 30, the game became nearly unplayable for some classes outside group situations (45 scorpions in Tanaris...oh god...)

 

 

I could go on for hours regarding PvP, the farming, key quests for Onyxia (kill me now), etc. Honestly, as bumpy as TOR's release was, it beat WoW and WAR's launch easily. The fast support from Bioware is quite refreshing.

[Marcus]

[Citation needed]

 

Really, you start by insulting anyone who disagrees with your subjective opinion and then follow up with unsubstantiated claims about a mass exodus

 

I'd say your credibility is nearing zero

 

Unsubstantiated? Log into the game. Look around. Notice how there aren't nearly as many people online than usual?

 

1 week ago, Ilum had on average 50 Imperials and 30 Republic. Yesterday, around 5 pm, there were 2 (TWO) Imperial and 8 Republic on Ilum. That was the first time I have ever seen the republic outnumber the imperials. After I got my 30 crates (first time ever) since we were always grossly outnumber, I went back to the fleet and there were only 30 people on the fleet.

 

As I said before, my guild used to be one of the tops on the server. We were turning people away left and right cause we didn't want a big guild. We were running 16 man Ops groups and making people sit cause we had too many. We haven't raided in 2 weeks because we can't get enough people online. 5 of our 8 officers quit the game. Yesterday afternoon, during prime time, I was the only person in the guild online.

 

Yeah, I don't have hard facts from Biowares database with numbers, but the visual/physical evidence proves people are leaving this game in droves....

Edited March 11, 2012 by Marcus

[Vlaxitov]

1. You need to stop trying to cater to just one community of gamers. You need to cater to everyone. That means you allow macros/addons/8v8 pre-mades etc. If the casuals don't want to use them, they don't have to. By just flat out denying it, you piss off those that do. We aren't even asking for SWG type macros, the ones in WOW that aid you are just fine. Noone is forced to use anything they don't want to. If they complain about them being available, then chances are they usually complain about everything and that is why thier parents locked them in the basement with free internet.

 

This is just ridiculas. I don't know why soo many people today are convinced that all mmos need to embrace a one size fits all philosophy. The problem with all mmos today is that THEY DO try to cater to everyone, which is exactly why you're seeing compromise you don't agree with. Game makers for some time now have had more focus on trying to interest all demographics of players rather than just making a good game and actually satisfying whatever demographics of players who would enjoy it. So now mmos have to be mediocre at everything rather than being really good at a few things.

 

I think the whole mmo genre needs to split into sub genres at this point to pull itself out of this permanent state of mediocracy.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Vlaxitov

[Vlaxitov]

Remeber how the entire game crashed for over a week during the 1st halloween when they added the decorations to the cities?

 

If the ADHD crowd that throws a tantrum over the smallest thing here had played any other MMO at launch they'd have probably found them hanging in thier closet. These kids need to get a grip on reality.

 

No I don't remember that. I remember my client crashing every once in awhile for various reasons, but nothing that persisted for a week. Guess I'm part of the "ADHD crowd."

 

Even if what you guys are saying is true, (which it isn't) you're somehow using that to make an argument for what? I remember when cars didn't have ABS, therefore we shouldn't expect new models to have ABS today.