GalacticKegger Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 ive been posting in this thread since the first thread. No logic. The fact that no one offers any logic when i specifically ask for it is very telling.Your opinion ... nothing more, nothing less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) right now I would like any person in this thread, to quote, or bring up a LOGICAL point against combat logs and why we shouldn't have them. cold hard facts need to be used. Plenty of them for you to go back and review among the nearly two thousand posts to this thread. No reason for us to repeat them. Edited March 13, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 no change would be adding them, and the fear that may or may not cause. that's my point. Silly. Other MMOs have them.......that is the MMO status quo. SWTOR will not have them....that is change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaizo Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 yes we need real combat logs, as a raid leader I need to know who is lacking in dps or healing so I can do what I can to help them so we can get passed the brick wall of failing at a raid boss. This is a industry staple bioware. I simply do not understand why georg soeller is so adimant about not letting people see what others are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retzilla Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Plenty of them for you to go back and review amont the nearly two thousand posts to this thread. No reason for us to repeat them. pleaes provide an example Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 right now I would like any person in this thread, to quote, or bring up a LOGICAL point against combat logs and why we shouldn't have them. cold hard facts need to be used.As soon as cold hard facts are submitted to support their use. Guess what ... cold hard facts don't exist either way so no one wins this argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matte_Black Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 one wonders why you would choose to use such a goram annoying font color. And because i really like Star Wars. It sticks out, is easier to find while quick scrolling and remains more legible than most against the dark blue. I used to use "wheat" but others were using it too for a while. Thank you for your concern. I like Star Wars too but, deal with graphs, trends and numbers far too much to want them driving my game play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I like Star Wars too but, deal with graphs, trends and numbers far too much to want them driving my game play.[/color] If you dont want trends, numbers, and statistics driving your game play....well.. DONT PLAY AN MMORPG!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) apparently its all over the thread, and I guess i'm the rtard that doesnt get it. so do me the honor of explaining it to me. It's been explained, over and over to you in many responses. Your unwillingness to objectively review and acknowledge them does not merit everyone hold your hand to go over them again. Besides, all you really want is something to argue over again and again and again. You can do that all by yourself. Edited March 13, 2012 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 pleaes provide an example No. Go back and review them yourself. If you are too lazy to do that, that is your issue, not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 As soon as cold hard facts are submitted to support their use. Guess what ... cold hard facts don't exist either way so no one wins this argument. FACT: combat logs and combat metrics are useful in endgame. FACT: combat logs and combat metrics help min/max your character FACT: combat logs and combat metrics turn regular players into egotistical e-peeners. FYI One of those wasn't a fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 pubescent epeeners will exist in every game that has any shred of competitiveness. even easymode mmorpg like this one. i dont see how you go from that to "it detracts from a great game and the communtiy" this is entirely subjective there are things in a certain unspeakable mmorpg that i hated and felt that it did indeed do damage to in game relationships, things like gearscore, and achievments. i would not like to see things like that in this game. but easy to use dps meters are very important for making real challenging content. This is a fallacy. In fact I would argue the opposite. If developers did not let you see "behind the curtain", it is harder to figure out how to overcome difficult encounters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 No. Go back and review them yourself. If you are too lazy to do that, that is your issue, not mine. dude there are like 90 pages. just be a gentleman and tell me, or quote one of the old ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 If you dont want trends, numbers, and statistics driving your game play....well.. DONT PLAY AN MMORPG!!! OR you could just go with the new MMORPG that is apparently not driven by trends, numbers and statistics. This one as a matter of fact. But the great move from BW will allow you to do this on an individual basis in real time and on a group level "out of game". I love change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englefield Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 i understand why people dont want them. They are afraid of change. Proof if ever it was needed that your eyes are closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drewser Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 then why is? because people will be mean to you? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 nope. then why is it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) dont keep quoting me unless you are going to provide me with the logical argument. apparently its all over the thread, and I guess i'm the rtard that doesnt get it. so do me the honor of explaining it to me.Don't be so hard on yourself. Proof isn't necessary in a discussion about preference because visceral value isn't quantifiable. If assigning a tangible value to a visceral effect is what you seek then may your search take you where science can not. Edited March 13, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matte_Black Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) If you dont want trends, numbers, and statistics driving your game play....well.. DONT PLAY AN MMORPG!!! As it happens, I have been playing this great Star Wars MMORPG that does not require me to focus on such elements. I can play by the seat of my pants and remain plenty successful in my progression. I find it's developers are of a similar mind and top players clear the toughest content even without any combat logs. This great game is called SWTOR. Edited March 13, 2012 by Matte_Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Englefield Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 right now I would like any person in this thread, to quote, or bring up a LOGICAL point against combat logs and why we shouldn't have them. cold hard facts need to be used. Sorry but it doesn't work that way. You are the one advocating a change in the status quo, you provide a logical argument why it's needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 OR you could just go with the new MMORPG that is apparently not driven by trends, numbers and statistics. This one as a matter of fact. But the great move from BW will allow you to do this on an individual basis in real time and on a group level "out of game". I love change. if i wanted to play an RPG without numbers and stats i wouldn't be playing an RPG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Sorry but it doesn't work that way. You are the one advocating a change in the status quo, you provide a logical argument why it's needed. FACT: combat logs and combat metrics are useful in endgame. FACT: combat logs and combat metrics help min/max your character FACT: combat logs and combat metrics turn regular players into egotistical e-peeners. FYI One of those wasn't a fact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retzilla Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) As soon as cold hard facts are submitted to support their use. Guess what ... cold hard facts don't exist either way so no one wins this argument. combat logs used in a raid group provide accountability, how so? rather than having to watch and babysit 8-16 other people in the raid you can refer to the log to see who has been messing up. having to waste an attempt to sit there and watch someone rather than pull it up from a data source that is unbiased and true to the last number saves a great deal of time, and prevents drama in a group. lets say I watch player A stand in mechanic B, i tell him hes doing it and his immediate reply is "no i didn't" i tell him that i watched him do it and he further repeats "no" i have no way to prove what happened without a full combat log. if I had a combat log I could pull up the data and state what happened, as well as provide an exact time to when it happened. it's not the raid leaders job to be on top of the raid to better themselves as players, its his job to make strategies based on how well his raiders should be performing. they shouldn't be carried through nightmare modes and the best way to tell who deserves a raid spot or not is the math and hard data behind what happened in the encounter says that they performed well. a combat log is a tool for someone who seeks to improve themselves, pump out as much healing or damage they can during a boss fight, that is what makes a good raider good. the way they want to play is the right way. and players that want to do this are seriously hindered due to people wanting to live in ignorance check.... Edited March 13, 2012 by Retzilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Don't be so hard on yourself. Proof isn't necessary in a discussion about preference because visceral value isn't quantifiable. If that is what you seek then may your search take you where science can not. Ahh intelligence. Rarely seen on forum boards. I was going to say: dude there are like 90 pages. just be a gentleman and tell me, or quote one of the old ones. Then you came to the debate late and you'll have to do some personal reading to catch up. The pros and cons are in those past 90 pages. Get to reading as it might also help your own argument. if i wanted to play an RPG without numbers and stats i wouldn't be playing an RPG. I don't need numbers to role play. Just imagination and the game itself. Edited March 13, 2012 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stupiddrummer Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Ahh intelligence. Rarely seen on forum boards. I was going to say: Then you came to the debate late and you'll have to do some personal reading to catch up. The pros and cons are in those past 90 pages. Get to reading as it might also help your own argument. again, i've been in this since the very first thread. It's not about personal preference, it's about the health and longevity of a game i would love to see succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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