ferroz Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Thats like telling a hockey player eating a particular diet, training regimen, and working out one way is just one way of doing it and in no way inferior to the diet, training and work that he currently does.fixed that for you. Edited March 19, 2012 by ferroz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marmerus Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 We have been trying to get you to change your bad habits, but you are still wrongly claiming that one way works best for everyone You can try and talk me to going back to clicking, but you wont succeed as the keyboard works best for me. Where I am not so stupid as to think the way I do it is best for everyone, I do encourage ( not demand ) others try new and different things We keep trying to get you to change your bad habit of thinking wrongly that you know best for everyone, but you really seem to like that habit Im not thinking wrongly. Just think for yourself how fast you can press Q and E repeatedly. And then ask yourself if you can press Slot 1 on your main action bar and then move mouse over to slot 1 on right side action bar and press it. Now time yourself and see how long you can do it 10 times in a row. If pressing Q and E is faster than moving your mouse to do that very same then Im right. If it takes equal amount of time you are right. If it takes longer time then we both are wrong. Simple logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Im not thinking wrongly.Sure you are. You think it's the best way for everone. That's simply incorrect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byteresistor Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) sure, but clicking isn't a bad habit. It's just one of the ways of doing it, which isn't inherantly inferior to any other particualr way of doing it. Ok let's just quit the BS and detailed arguments and let me ask you this one very simple question: Have you (or these other clickers) actually ever played with keybinds to make that statement and notice the difference? You know... for more than like 15 minutes? Answer me this and we can determine whether there's any point in continuing this discussion. Because I can assure you that nearly 100% of keybinders have been clickers at one point and they do know the difference and thus actually have some weight behind their evaluation of the differences between the two playstyles. If you say NO, your argument is over. Edited March 19, 2012 by byteresistor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayln Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Sure you are. You think it's the best way for everone. That's simply incorrect Exactly He doesn’t seem to get it, don’t expect him to at this point. The only people here that are dead wrong are the ones that think they way they do it, is the only or the best way. ( shrug ) you can try to teach, but you cannot force people to learn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasstavad Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Even if you could possibly click abilities and move as fast as a mouse turner/keybinder could... (you can't) you would never be as situationally aware - simply because you spend considerably more time staring at your hotbars and not at what is going on around you. In PvE you can get away with this simply because mechanics are always predictable. In PvP things aren't quite as scripted and to be truly effective, you need both APM and Situational Awareness... and even if your APM is high, your situational awareness won't be. Go ahead, click away! But given equal APM's, a keybinder will have at least one advantage - even though, in reality the keybinder (if competent) will have both advantages. To say otherwise is simply ignorance or arguing for arguments sake. Edited March 19, 2012 by Rasstavad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Urtani Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) I read it and I don't agree. You got a problem? You read it, but it's obvious you didn't understand it. Edited March 19, 2012 by Darth_Urtani Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distracted Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I only have one arm, so clicking is a must for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byteresistor Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 You read it, but it's obvious you didn't understand it. I understand it perfectly fine. You say this game is too bad/laggy to notice the difference between clickers and keybinders, and that's the part I disagree with. Either you personally just have phenomenally bad performance on your computer compaired to the majority of other players or you are not just a good enough player to notice it. I don't have a new computer and I can tell the difference just fine. If I see a bad player I can tell if it's a bad clicker of a bad keybinder. If I see a good player I can still tell whether it's a clicker no matter the fact that it's a good player. His/her good skills alone do not hide the manouvers of a clicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ri_Aminus Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) No matter how anybody tries to shape and spin the arguments in favor of clicking a player will never be as efficient using this method as they will be with keybinding. The mouse is for moving. The keyboard is for your abilities. If you aren't playing this way you are punishing your own efficiency. It's a personal choice but make no mistake about it, if you choose to use the keyboard to move/turn and the mouse to click your abilities on the action bar you will be at a distinct disadvantage when playing against a person who uses the mouse to move and binds their abilities to their keyboard. interesting, i'd be a clicker myself, i use my arrow keys next to me number pad on my keyboard to move, they tend to be sluggish, either i turn too far left or right - i can never get it totally right and am allways running into the cracks and divots in walls and get stuck so then i have to backup and turn but more often than not and i mean 8/10 i overshoot a turn in a corridor - its frustrating....wish there was somehow i could improve it Edited March 19, 2012 by Ri_Aminus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxen Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Ok let's just quit the BS and detailed arguments and let me ask you this one very simple question: Have you (or these other clickers) actually ever played with keybinds to make that statement and notice the difference? You know... for more than like 15 minutes? Answer me this and we can determine whether there's any point in continuing this discussion. Because I can assure you that nearly 100% of keybinders have been clickers at one point and they do know the difference and thus actually have some weight behind their evaluation of the differences between the two playstyles. If you say NO, your argument is over. yes, and I still hate keybinding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaidenHeaven Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) Close your eyes. Use all of the abilities you would cycle through in PvE and PvP in rapid succession. If you accomplished this as a clicker, I congratulate you on either being lucky or a ninja. As a keybinder, this wasn't hard for you at all because your muscle memory knows exactly where all of your abilities are. The point is that a keybinder can use his abilities in rapid succession while turning his attention to other things. SoA's lightning balls, the pesky healer that needs to be CC'd, the dude that stealthed way off in the distance on his way to cap the left side. Whatever the case may be, having awareness in an MMO is the single best quality you can have, no matter if your flavor is PvE or PvP. Keybinding allows you to have more awareness as you don't need your eyes to track your mouse cursor to the correct ability that you want to click on. It's kind of like, do you watch your fingers while you type? Of course not, you watch the monitor to see what you're doing. Similar principle applies - you don't want to have to watch your mouse cursor, you want to watch the game to see what's going on. I'm not going to crap all over a clicker and tell them that they suck, but I will tell them that if they switch to keybinding, it will make them a better player. Edited March 19, 2012 by MaidenHeaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayln Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I rarely play this game with my eyes closed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaidenHeaven Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 You missed the point entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byteresistor Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 yes, and I still hate keybinding But this isn't about what you like/hate but which one performs better. So tell me how long have you played as a keybinder? Just long enough to hate it? Well that's the wrong answer, because you cannot evaluate the difference until you have become atleast as comfortable with keybinds as you were with clicking, which (depending on person) might take days, weeks or even months. You just cannot make the comparision if you have clicked for 6 months and only tried keybinds for a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediKalel Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 OMG, you are going to be so uber super BA if you key bind that people who dont will simply die in your presence..... give me a break, go tell your mom its lunchtime and you need a sandwich kids, its a videogame:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayln Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 You missed the point entirely. No I got the point perfectly you didn’t get mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaidenHeaven Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) No I got the point perfectly you didn’t get mine Obviously not if you think that playing with your eyes closed was the point. The point was that your eyes aren't where they should be because they're following the mouse cursor to the ability that needs to be clicked. Unless you were just making a joke by saying 'rarely', humorously implying that you do in fact close your eyes at times in which case I apologize for missing the joke In any case if you click and are comfortable doing it, then by all means. It's your $15/mo. There's just a large case to be made for the fact that keybinding will make you a better player. Edited March 19, 2012 by MaidenHeaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayln Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 It is as valid as a clicker saying ok try using the keyboard in PVP with one hand tied behind your back. A clicker will kick your behind But neither is the point, the point is, people are different, and only a fool thinks that they are all the same and that one size fits all, it just doesn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediKalel Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 It is as valid as a clicker saying ok try using the keyboard in PVP with one hand tied behind your back. A clicker will kick your behind But neither is the point, the point is, people are different, and only a fool thinks that they are all the same and that one size fits all, it just doesn’t. Bingo.... you can become efficient at anything you do, I played with legacy controls on console games (if you know what that is) and had people saying that theres no way anyone could be good using those controls.... too bad I was always top of the leaderboards in MW2 lol, shuts up the "uber super kids" real quick when you actually have skill instead of just saying you do and other people dont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaidenHeaven Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) It is as valid as a clicker saying ok try using the keyboard in PVP with one hand tied behind your back. A clicker will kick your behind But neither is the point, the point is, people are different, and only a fool thinks that they are all the same and that one size fits all, it just doesn’t. The difference is that your example has no metaphorical application, whereas mine does. Closing your eyes translates to not having your eyes where they need to be, as a clicker often doesn't due to tracking the mouse cursor. Tying one hand behind my back translates to...? What exactly? In most cases you are right; as there is no one solution that is going to work for everybody. However, in this particular case, clicking is just an outright handicap comparatively. You wouldn't show up to a war with a pocket knife. Could you kill someone with a pocket knife? Sure. Is using a rifle a better idea? Yep. No matter how good a clicker is, he'll be better if he keybinds. Are there clickers that are better than keybinders? I'm sure. But someone that is good as a clicker will be even better if he binds. There are reasons that keybinding is better. There are no reasons that clicking is better other than "it's what I'm used to", which is easily fixed. Edited March 19, 2012 by MaidenHeaven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bamajawn Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) I'm generally not a keybinder to a great degree. Hell, I'm older and I don't want to manage dozens of combinations or try to become a keyboarding acrobat. That being said, I think that keybinding is faster in the game and has the advantage of my being able to keep my eyes on the combat in PvP. I've worked up some basic keybinds that lend themselves to my rotation and I'm a lot faster for it. I use my mouse and keyboard to move.. turning with the mouse and moving forward, sideways, and back with the keyboard. My other mouse buttons are bound to my Rapid Shot (mouse wheel down) and a few other key things. My keyboard layout is set up so that my rotation keys are adjacent and my "free" rotation for fusion missile is similar. "T" is Throw the Huttball so I end up with the range icon on my cursor immediately. It's much faster and more accurate than clicking. I play way too much Huttball... So, I use bindings on both the keyboard and mouse and use them in combination to move around. I don't worry with binding opening my inventory, character sheet, etc. etc. Pretty basic, but it works well for me. Everyone should make their own choices and I certainly don't look down on clickers, but binding is much faster for me in PvP. In PvE, it's not nearly as critical, but it's still faster. Edited March 19, 2012 by Bamajawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
byteresistor Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) But neither is the point, the point is, people are different, and only a fool thinks that they are all the same and that one size fits all, it just doesn’t. Only a fool thinks people cannot learn to become good in something new to them. Becoming a keybinder isn't an overnight process, you cannot have an opinion on it if you haven't even tried it for a decent amount of time. And again this time depends on how fast of a learner you are, but if you are even just an average person you WILL learn almost anything if you put enough time and effort into it. "I just don't like it" is only an excuse to not even try it. Someone mentioned earlier here that he has only 1 hand and has to click but if you have 2 hands you WILL become a better player with keybinds, it's just you don't even try which is the issue. It would be like me saying that I prefer to play the classical guitar with a pick and I'm as good at it as anyone who plays it with their fingers. That's not a matter of taste or opinion anymore because we can actually test if I'm talking BS out of my ***. Edited March 22, 2012 by Paralassa content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwacko Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I'm old, stubborn and don't care. I kill mouse people every day. I mock them, and steal their cheetos..... CLICK 4LIFE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayln Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Nor does playing with your eyes closed, with the exception that you can successfully play the game one with arm behind your back.... you cannot with your eyes closed. Is this an argument for the sake of argument or what? You cannot decide what is best for EVERYONE and trying to do so just makes you a fool I happen to use the keybinding, but I am not so foolish as to think that someone else might not do just as well in another way. the only people that are dead wrong in this thread are the ones that think their own particular way, is the best way for EVERYONE, we know that isn’t true. p.s. if you would like to put this to the test, lets duel, you with your eyes closed and me with one hand tied behind my back. ( I might have to start clicking if I do that ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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