Valor 65 Sniper Explaining [In Detail] State of Snipers in PvP atm -->

[mckeel]

What sniper's really could benefit from is a purpose in the pvp aspect...I know the geared player bs isplayed out but honestly the sniper absolutely does not do nearlty enough damage in an equal average amoung all of the opposing classes.. Really if they changed our damage to unmittigated we would be OP but.... if the gave us an ability to both severly damage/stun an opponent we would be ok... think about ambush stunning somebody for 3 sec and doing 15% more damage...

[Threskov]

I havent been outdamaged in a warzone since I got my full rakata full SS spec on my gunslinger.

 

Ill take the buff anyway, but then Ill make those nice videos that will get the class nerfed.

 

Sniper/Gunslinger are fine when supported by a group. Tough life solo pug.

[TehChozenOne]

You actually do less damage in PvP if you use full Rakata. The lack of 10% Expertise is a HUGE hit that isn't replaced by PvE stats. You also get hit like a truck by kids in BM gear.

 

What you just said proves that you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

 

Clearly someone is getting carried by the team.

[Vyndeta]

Buffy buff buff good idea

[Krystaf]

Sniper/Gunslinger are fine when supported by a group. Tough life solo pug.

 

Well who isn't? Give me a pocket healer and a guard tank and I'll be fine.

 

This topic is about overall performance of the class, not just the performance (that would still be lacking compared to most other classes imho) in optimal situation.

[Wingfoot]

I havent been outdamaged in a warzone since I got my full rakata full SS spec on my gunslinger.

 

Ill take the buff anyway, but then Ill make those nice videos that will get the class nerfed.

 

Sniper/Gunslinger are fine when supported by a group. Tough life solo pug.

 

 

This is just another example of why the Sniper community is where it is and why we will never get the love our class needs. You can sit there and AOE your way to top damage all the time. The problem is that a Sorc can do just as good at damage as we can, but they can also heal, CC better, shield their team, sprint, live longer, make their groups better, make dinner while playing, etc.

 

So your top damage means a lot when another class can do the same damage as you and bring 10x the utility on demand whenever they want...

[Tsubibi]

" I dps as good as the others so my class is fine " . LOL@ the reasoning .

 

Our gameplay is half-broken , our utility is questionable , our survivabilty is near 0 but don't panic ... our dps is fine ( against squeeshy opponents/noobs/beginners ) , so .... we are fine .

 

 

haha .

[Deesasther]

I havent been outdamaged in a warzone since I got my full rakata full SS spec on my gunslinger.

 

Ill take the buff anyway, but then Ill make those nice videos that will get the class nerfed.

 

Sniper/Gunslinger are fine when supported by a group. Tough life solo pug.

 

The last paragraph is true. that just doesnt mean that sniper and gunslingers are fine. It means the group and other classes supporting the sniper are fine. Damage is good when facerolling random teams with premade.

[TehChozenOne]

For anyone that is interested..

 

This is about 2 nights of game play I recorded, and a teaser for the video being made with about 2 weeks of footage.

 

[ALEXANDRU-]

Sniper Valor 62 here(could be 70+ instead if i wouldnt made so many characters because of the frustating sniper mechanics).I too spent like milions of credits to respec to that and back.Anyone who reads this and say that we are noobs because snipers are fine and we do loads of damage,and posts screenshots with 600k damage are wrong.Snipers can do damage if you just tab like a madman and dot/shot anything in sight+ AoE.The only thing i can do in a wz is stick to enemy healer(mostly sorcs) and try not to stick to the ball carier but a good sorc always can get out of your sight(i am talking about Battlemasters+).Last night i respeced to MM just for fun and my ambush was deflected by an sorc.For a viable MM spec in pvp we need to stack lots of accuracy and by that we lose other good stats.

 

And yes,we can be replaced easy by every class and they will do better and be more usefull than we do.

Edited March 10, 2012 by ALEXANDRU-

[Deviltreh]

Do any of the other Snipers/Gunslingers that are 65+ Valor in Full BM/Rakata Gear with 1700+ Cunning also lol'ing at the kids that are telling us to L2P?

grindable stats doesn't show your skill, L2FP

[Deviltreh]

For anyone that is interested..

 

This is about 2 nights of game play I recorded, and a teaser for the video being made with about 2 weeks of footage.

 

 

bandicam.com text on top, together with no colors and black rectangles at four corners.

 

Your video is too sophisticated for me.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Deviltreh

[TehChozenOne]

grindable stats doesn't show your skill, L2FP

I think what you should have taken away from that post was that I am a VERY geared Sniper that has experienced end game PvP. The ValorRank should be enough.

[Deviltreh]

I think what you should have taken away from that post was that I am a VERY geared Sniper that has experienced end game PvP. The ValorRank should be enough.

 

Good for him. On battlelog there are a lot of experienced players with 200+ hours logged and <1 K/D and <1 W/L ratios and <300 SPM.

 

Like I said - grinding and looking at PvP does not represent your skill IN ANY GOD DAMN WAY.

 

l2p

[TehChozenOne]

Good for him. On battlelog there are a lot of experienced players with 200+ hours logged and <1 K/D and <1 W/L ratios and <300 SPM.

 

Like I said - grinding and looking at PvP does not represent your skill IN ANY gosh darn WAY.

 

l2p

 

I am still confused as to what is wrong with my OP, other than what i was using to establish credibility to our community.

 

I take it you have no complaints and nothing useful to add?

[VampireGranny]

You just quoted some useless scrub who thinks being "top of kills" in a warzone means something.

[snip]

Of course, you can do good damage numbers if you run around plonking shots into Sorcs while the tanks are scoring but you know what? That's not being useful. If you don't have the firepower to drop tanks, you are a sucky defender. If you don't have mobility, you are a sucky attacker. The MM Sniper is both a sucky defender and a sucky attacker. Inviting a MM Sniper to plonk plonk on Sorcs is just pointless when you can invite a lot of specs that can do that and still be a strong asset on offense or defense.

 

Regardless, being top kills shows that you have an ability to kill. "Running around killings sorcs" is not the same as "killing the people healing the tanks." If you're with a good team, you'll have others hitting the tanks too, and you're far better at taking out healers than other classes.

 

Your idea of countering Snipers succeeding in PvP seems to be imagining snipers running around ignoring the objective... How is this even relevant?

 

Yeah, Powertechs are really bad at PvP because all they do is run around setting people on fire while the tanks score in Huttball. derpaderpderp

[jaakkeli]

Regardless, being top kills shows that you have an ability to kill.

 

No, actually it doesn't. You score a kill if you just damage an enemy once and he dies within some set time. You get a really high kill count from just spamming rifle shots, greneades and dots around without ever bursting on anyone. That's also the simple way to farm really high damage scores and it's what all these people who think Lethality is doing amazingly well are doing, spamming mostly useless damage to get top of meters.

 

If you're with a good team, you'll have others hitting the tanks too, and you're far better at taking out healers than other classes.

 

No, we are not. Those specs that can actually tear down tanks are ALL also great at killing healers, like PT Pyros and Anni Maras.

 

Marksman Snipers are just gimped against tanks and classes that have tanky deflection cooldowns and Snipers are not particularily good at something else to counterbalance it. It's just pure downside, there is no upside. Marksman Snipers are terrible whenever the enemy has any defenses, then you say "but we are good at killing defenseless enemies!" and you know, that's not a sign that the class is strong, it's a sign that the class is weak.

 

Yeah, Powertechs are really bad at PvP because all they do is run around setting people on fire while the tanks score in Huttball. derpaderpderp

 

Powertech damage is superior to Snipers in every way. So, your Marksman Sniper does amazing burst on Sages/Sorcs while being horribly gimped against tanks. Meanwhile, the Pyro PT does amazing burst on Sages/Sorcs and then he does amazing burst on tanks as well since most of his attacks just go through defenses like they're note even there. There is nothing that the Sniper kills better, the Pyro PT is either equal or superior against any foe.

 

So why bring a Sniper to rated play? The answer, once again, is that you don't bring any Snipers to rated play as long as the class remains what it is. I'm gearing up my Powertech instead and I recommend the same to everyone else asking about Snipers...

[Tsubibi]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=350113

 

And the fact you said powertech is bad at pvp ( especially huttball )... well , you lost your whole credibility :/.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Tsubibi

[il-jumper]

Sniper is really glass cannon.

 

If I'm with useless team, I will die the most in match but tunnel visioning idiots (and on my server lots of people do it)

 

In a good team, despite tunnel vision people will help. In a good team I wreck havoc.

[VampireGranny]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=350113

 

And the fact you said powertech is bad at pvp ( especially huttball )... well , you lost your whole credibility :/.

 

If that was directed at me, I believe you misunderstood why I said that.

 

And to the other guy, I wish there was a combat log or perhaps a damage-meter to back up any findings, because again, nobody knows the true damage count. My reasoning behind thinking Snipers are best for taking down healers is the heavy burst damage (opening with Ambush and Explosive Probe is like hitting them with a truck) combined with the high amount of CC to stop them escaping/healing themselves. We're also ranged, which makes us a little harder to CC ourselves (although I understand how difficult it is to escape an angry Powertech who's on your tail).

In all honesty, when it comes to tanks we are significantly weaker, though we have the CC to make up for it somewhat (leg-shot being lovely).

[nikthebeast]

Sniper is really glass cannon.

 

If I'm with useless team, I will die the most in match but tunnel visioning idiots (and on my server lots of people do it)

 

In a good team, despite tunnel vision people will help. In a good team I wreck havoc.

 

Agreed.

 

I find most people are, well not idiots, but easily go into tunnelvision mode. It is very easy to talk about a theoretical response on focus but so far I have not encountered games where lethality become useless. It might not reach its full potential but on the other hand if all our dots where undispellable I am sure we'd look forward to a nerf as people go "OMG, lethality is ez mode, just apply dots and cull for epic damage."

 

The only fix I'd like to see is is a very minor reduction in energy on dart and grenade, and a shorter CD on corrosive grenade. Alternatively, just make cor grenade undispellable and leave the rest as it is.

 

In essence, don't make it into a no-brainer. The backlash is going to land us a nerf. Not saying this is what you're suggesting but more of a general response. Some suggested fixes makes thing a bit too easy IMO.

 

Then again, 1.2 is supposed to rebalance all classes so many of our concerns might become irrelevant, replaced by new ones, or worse made even glaringly obvious. However, the optimist in me hopes it will turn out well.

[TehChozenOne]

Three more changes I'd like to see...

 

1- Change "Target Aquired" to make the next offensive ability unavoidable [resist/dodge/ect] instead of the 100% crit to Snipe.

 

2- Make Dehibiliate Ranged [or atleast change the NINETY RESOLVE to be on par with other stuns and make it 40]

 

3- Give Snipers a Talented ability [remove the 4% Alacrity/or CoverScreen] that makes it whenever you leave cover, you gain 15/30% Movement speed increase [cannot be activated more than once every 4sec].

 

Fixed our class.

[Tsubibi]

holdout defense is nearly totally useles too ...

[Delease]

64 valor here, about 5 peices of BM.

 

Unless you are one of these: inquisitor, trooper, bounty hunter, consular...then you should not be PVPing really.

 

When ranked wz come out, its going to be bad. GL finding a team =|

[jaakkeli]

In all honesty, when it comes to tanks we are significantly weaker, though we have the CC to make up for it somewhat (leg-shot being lovely).

 

Unfortunately, Leg Shot can be deflected which makes it really weak against tanks - a tank using a defense boosting cooldown is practically immune. An easy fix would be to add a huge bonus to accuracy to the Leg Shot cooldown reduction talent in the Marksman tree so that MM would have a practically undeflectable Leg Shot - Lethality would be fine with the weakness of Leg Shot against tanks since it's good at actually killing them.