It's time to end the grass/snow days...

[MartyrLXXVII]

I agree that if EVERYONE uses "left" as "left from spawn" then it would be intuitive.

 

But they don't, and because of that it is subject to confusion.

 

Don't blame a working system on people that are to stupid to understand the concept of a fixed point of reference.

 

But along the same lines its why I like left/right more. Because other games have Differnt ways the mimimap is presented and east/west can cause to much map use in those situations.

 

But as I said, left/right is intuitive to anyone -with common sense-... Sadly many people lack this, and I'd put put money down that those same people can't get east/west right either.

[GaryCartel]

We don't use west and east because its subjective to where you are on the map.

 

Snow is always snowy, grass is always grassy.

 

I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one... East and West are always the same on the map....

 

Left and right are subjective to where you are...

 

You did get something right tho : Snow is always snowy, grass is always grassy

 

Either way people need to learn their Easts and Wests. A bunch of times people call out west, but mean east.

 

Don't even get me started on left and right. Far to many people call out left or right and I logically think left and right from the spawn. Where as other think left and right on the map... which makes things confusing.

 

All in all people need make it clear which side needs help!

[Jestunhi]

Don't blame a working system on people that are to stupid to understand the concept of a fixed point of reference.

 

But along the same lines its why I like left/right more. Because other games have Differnt ways the mimimap is presented and east/west can cause to much map use in those situations.

 

But as I said, left/right is intuitive to anyone -with common sense-... Sadly many people lack this, and I'd put put money down that those same people can't get east/west right either.

 

*sigh*

 

it's not that people don't understand, it's that they aren't psychic.

 

When calling an inc you are, understandably, typing as little as possible as quickly as possible. You don't have time to explain what your left is in reference to.

 

And as soon as someone calls "left" and it means something else, it's you who shows your lack of psychic ability and are left to hope that their left is the same as yours.

 

 

 

:edit:

 

To clarify, if someone calls left I assume the same as you do, that it's left from spawn. But that doesn't make us "right" and anyone else "wrong".

Edited March 7, 2012 by Jestunhi

[shopach]

East and west is NOT relative to where you are on the map. East is always east and west is always west. What is relative is left/right.

 

East and west is always the best way to call it because it is completely unambiguous. If you don't know east/west then google it and figure it out.

 

When people call left/right it is horribly ambiguous because some people call it in reference to the map (in which case they should use west/east respectively), and others call it from the frame of reference of their approach vector. It is just terrible and I've seen people call left/right and everyone interpreted the other way and we lost the door.

[olagaton]

Snow/grass = easiest method.

 

Left and right change depending on your relative position, and require you to look at your map to find your bearing, which takes time away from being productive.

 

East/west is potentially just as easy as Snow/grass, but Snow/Grass has an innate visual assistance as well. East/west does not.

Edited March 7, 2012 by olagaton

[wermio]

In our guild we use "Left - Mid - Your other left."

[Jestunhi]

OK.

 

People who use snow / grass.

 

 

Lets say you are standing in the middle, you have been fighting and changing direction but now no one is coming from either spawn so the only way to see which way is which is by looking at your minimap.

 

Now, someone calls "6 inc snow!!!!!!".

 

Please describe how you go from not knowing which direction you are facing to running towards "snow"?

 

There's 4 ways I can see:

 

1. Run around at random to see if there's snow on one side.

2. Remember which side of the map snow is on & check minimap to get bearings

3. Wait until someone is visible at one of the spawns to get your bearings

4. Follow everyone else.

 

 

Which of those is quicker / easier than east / west and glancing at your minimap to get your bearings? 2. is exactly the same and the other 3 are worse / more random.

[Darth-Rammstein]

I don't stare at the scenery, I have more important things to do while pvping. And believe me, I win often enough.

 

I expect if I was already at one of them I would know which has snow - but at that point I will already know if the inc is coming to me or not.

 

Can you manage east & west?

 

It's not hard brah, are you blind?

[olagaton]

I use the knowledge that 99% of people can recognize the difference between grass and snow, and a significantly less % of people know the difference between east/west; at a moments notice.

 

Blame it on the general populations lack of education or knowledge, if you need to rationalize it.

[Jestunhi]

It's not hard brah, are you blind?

 

Please see post above yours.

 

Explain how in that situation it would be better to use snow or grass than map references (you know, because I'm referring to a part of the map)?

[Mythicrose]

Which of those is quicker / easier than east / west and glancing at your minimap to get your bearings? 2. is exactly the same and the other 3 are worse / more random.

 

 

Ilum kills my computer so I've gotten to valor rank 59 casually doing warzones. It's not difficult to "know" where snow and grass turrets are to your relative map position after you've been in the warzone more than one or two times. Also zooming out and pivoting camera angle is ample enough to see a side with snow or a side with grass if you're currently fighting at the middle of the map. If someone isn't fighting at the middle and can't figure out where to go well....saying east or west isn't going to help them either.

 

I see more people running the Huttball ball the wrong direction than I have ever seen people run to the wrong turret called out. Same with Voidstar. Heck at least in Voidstar you get a message saying "Bomb has been planted on East door" or something similar.

[Darth-Rammstein]

Please see post above yours.

 

Explain how in that situation it would be better to use snow or grass than map references (you know, because I'm referring to a part of the map)?

 

All you need to do is play the map ONCE and unless you have a learning disability you should know what side has snow "hint it's white" and what side is grass *cough* green *cough*.

 

It's not that we couldn't use the east and west as directions for what side to go to it's just that it's easier to say snow/grass...

[MartyrLXXVII]

In our guild we use "Left - Mid - Your other left."

 

Good one, nice chuckle.

[MartyrLXXVII]

OK.

 

People who use snow / grass.

 

 

Lets say you are standing in the middle, you have been fighting and changing direction but now no one is coming from either spawn so the only way to see which way is which is by looking at your minimap.

 

Now, someone calls "6 inc snow!!!!!!".

 

Please describe how you go from not knowing which direction you are facing to running towards "snow"?

 

There's 4 ways I can see:

 

1. Run around at random to see if there's snow on one side.

2. Remember which side of the map snow is on & check minimap to get bearings

3. Wait until someone is visible at one of the spawns to get your bearings

4. Follow everyone else.

 

 

Which of those is quicker / easier than east / west and glancing at your minimap to get your bearings? 2. is exactly the same and the other 3 are worse / more random.

 

Easy, if you know the map instinctively enough to know east/west, then you should know which side snow is and which grass is.

[Itukaaj]

Grass and Snow are better terms for everyone by galactic orders of magnitude. The only people who have an issue are people who think they are better than everyone else. People like the OP and his followers need to stop stroking themselves.

 

Please go pour gasoline on yourselves and try to free Tibet.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Itukaaj

[FalmeseReb]

I played rounds where people called using grass/snow and it was absolutely dumb. Left/right or East/west.

[Jestunhi]

All you need to do is play the map ONCE and unless you have a learning disability you should know what side has snow "hint it's white" and what side is grass *cough* green *cough*.

 

It's not that we couldn't use the east and west as directions for what side to go to it's just that it's easier to say snow/grass...

 

So, after looking at the map once you will always know exactly which direction you are facing without ever seeing it again?

 

I call BS, unless you are full on OCD about tracking every single turn your character makes.

 

Once again, if you are standing in mid with no one at either spawn and someone calls snow - do you have to look at your minimap or can you magically see through the other objects in the map to the hills by the far points?

[GaryCartel]

OK.

 

People who use snow / grass.

 

 

Lets say you are standing in the middle, you have been fighting and changing direction but now no one is coming from either spawn so the only way to see which way is which is by looking at your minimap.

 

Now, someone calls "6 inc snow!!!!!!".

 

Please describe how you go from not knowing which direction you are facing to running towards "snow"?

 

There's 4 ways I can see:

 

1. Run around at random to see if there's snow on one side.

2. Remember which side of the map snow is on & check minimap to get bearings

3. Wait until someone is visible at one of the spawns to get your bearings

4. Follow everyone else.

 

 

Which of those is quicker / easier than east / west and glancing at your minimap to get your bearings? 2. is exactly the same and the other 3 are worse / more random.

 

I always have a sense of which direction I am facing.

 

I don't mind snow and grass. But people that have not played much pvp might not clue in.

 

Lets just call it East and West and be done with it.

 

Also, I have played Civil war on both Republic and Imperials and I have to say. It is much more confusing to play as an Imperial... I will tell you why:

 

In the top right hand corner, there is the 3 turrets. The turrets you are holding turn green.

 

As Republic : The right turret (in the top right hand corner) is the turret on the right (if you are standing in the spawn area).

 

As Imperial : The right turret (in the top right hand corner) is actually the left turret (If you are in the spawn area)

 

I would like this fixed for Imperial... but It would probably lead to more confusion.

[Jestunhi]

Easy, if you know the map instinctively enough to know east/west, then you should know which side snow is and which grass is.

 

That's why I said that 2. is exactly the same.

 

But it requires an extra piece of knowledge - whether snow is east or west on the map.

 

So with snow / grass I still have to look at the minimap and still have to think about east / west. But on top of that I have to remember which side is snowy.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Jestunhi

[Blackout]

I got called bad when i used 'east and west' on the fatman republic side 1-49 bracket. They said; "USE LOGIC! CALL IT GRASS AND SNOW". True story.

[GaryCartel]

I got called bad when i used 'east and west' on the fatman republic side 1-49 bracket. They said; "USE LOGIC! CALL IT GRASS AND SNOW". True story.

 

These guys were obviously never boy scouts. East and west is probably over their heads.

[Pistols]

I got called bad when i used 'east and west' on the fatman republic side 1-49 bracket. They said; "USE LOGIC! CALL IT GRASS AND SNOW". True story.

 

I heard the PvP in WZ's is amazing at 1-9? Trololol <3

 

But yeah, I get that as well on my alt in that bracket, it's simply amazing at how many window lickers we have.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Pistols

[MartyrLXXVII]

*sigh*

 

it's not that people don't understand, it's that they aren't psychic.

 

When calling an inc you are, understandably, typing as little as possible as quickly as possible. You don't have time to explain what your left is in reference to.

 

And as soon as someone calls "left" and it means something else, it's you who shows your lack of psychic ability and are left to hope that their left is the same as yours.

 

 

 

:edit:

 

To clarify, if someone calls left I assume the same as you do, that it's left from spawn. But that doesn't make us "right" and anyone else "wrong".

 

It's common sense to use a fixed point with left/right.

 

You are traveling down a street, when people give directions that say now turn left at such and such corner.

 

But its always the people that f-up the your left thing that don't have common sense.

 

If you don't understand to use the only fixed point intuitively then east west is really gonna lose ya.

Edited March 7, 2012 by MartyrLXXVII

[Jestunhi]

It's common sense to use a fixed point with left/right.

 

You are traveling down a street, when people give directions that say not turn left at such and such pour.

 

But its always the people that f-up the your left thing that don't have common sense.

 

If you don't understand to use the only fixed point intuitively then east west is really gonna lose ya.

 

Now imagine if those people giving directions in the street used the direction that their front door (i.e. spawn point) faced for to decide which way is left and which way is right...

 

:edit:

 

Plus if you were actually using a fixed point giving directions 2 left turns would be "turn left", "turn down / back". After all, from a fixed point the second left isn't turning left is it, it would only be turning left if the fixed point was the direction which you were traveling after the first left turn.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Jestunhi

[MartyrLXXVII]

That's why I said that 2. is exactly the same.

 

But it requires an extra piece of knowledge - whether snow is east or west on the map.

 

So with snow / grass I still have to look at the minimap and still have to think about east / west. But on top of that I have to remember which side is snowy.

 

Ok, and in my case I never use the maps so I don't have the slightest clue which is east and which is west, but I know snow grass easily.

 

This is the same reason I prefer left/right if there aren't landmarks. I know how to tell east west but I have to waste time opening my map.