Sorc/Sage Friendly Pull

[buubz]

Should just add a lockout debuff like force shield has. Can't be Rescued again for 3 min or something.

 

That's what I suggested in my editted OP, a ~15s lockout from being rescued again so that the ability is still relevant to the gametype, but isn't as prone to abuse.

 

Also regarding your edit about the JK/Warrior leap, I don't think that's actually possible. There's only one leap in their toolset that allows for a 30m gap closer. The other is much shorter and both have a ~20s CD.

Edited March 7, 2012 by buubz

[Bofromkentwood]

Huttball has nothing to do with skill, that's why so many games open with a 2-3 fast point lead then turn into deathmatch.

 

lolwut? Actually, Huttball requires the most skill. That is why most people hate it, because their idea of just sit there and shoot people makes them lose. Everyone in Huttball has a role, if you don't perform your role, you will lose. Huttball is the least gear dependent WZ, and the one where skill/teamwork actually show.

[buubz]

lolwut? Actually, Huttball requires the most skill. That is why most people hate it, because their idea of just sit there and shoot people makes them lose. Everyone in Huttball has a role, if you don't perform your role, you will lose. Huttball is the least gear dependent WZ, and the one where skill/teamwork actually show.

 

What's the role of an operative then? They have very little utility, their heals are lacking compared to sorcs/sages, and their damage has recently become pretty lacking. Huttball may be the warzone that requires the most skill if there are no gimmicky comps like mass sorc/sage, but in the state it's in now, you're very far from right.

[Cruxe]

That's what I suggested in my editted OP, a ~15s lockout from being rescued again so that the ability is still relevant to the gametype, but isn't as prone to abuse.

 

Also regarding your edit about the JK/Warrior leap, I don't think that's actually possible. There's only one leap in their toolset that allows for a 30m gap closer. The other is much shorter and both have a ~20s CD.

 

 

They have 2 30m, one to an enemy and one to an ally. And they can spec for another 10m.

[Vegathegreat]

lolwut? Actually, Huttball requires the most skill. That is why most people hate it, because their idea of just sit there and shoot people makes them lose. Everyone in Huttball has a role, if you don't perform your role, you will lose. Huttball is the least gear dependent WZ, and the one where skill/teamwork actually show.

 

basically what this guy said......

 

everything in this game requires skill and execution and knowledge.........

 

when i play on my sentinel in huttball its my job to A) take out healers and turret dps, B) ground the ball if there is no safe forward passes C) trans, guarded by force my way to a score

 

when i play the powertech my job changes, i become defense...... A) grapple ball carriers into fire B) grapple healers into fire if ball carrier is full on resolve C) dont let anyone get ahead of fire pits for passes or pulls

 

 

see what i did there, i adjusted to my strentghs, learn to do it and u will be fine

[Aluo]

If you think the OPs idea is a good one then first off you;

 

1) Suck at Huttball

2) Are a QQ Care bear who seems to think everything in life should be 50/50 balance.

3) You just don't get it IT IS A SAME FACTION WZ BECAUSE OF THIS! /facepalm

4) You suck at PvP.

 

Enjoy my pretentious nature!

[buubz]

If you think the OPs idea is a good one then first off you;

 

1) Suck at Huttball

2) Are a QQ Care bear who seems to think everything in life should be 50/50 balance.

3) You just don't get it IT IS A SAME FACTION WZ BECAUSE OF THIS! /facepalm

4) You suck at PvP.

 

Enjoy my pretentious nature!

 

Alright, let's get cracking on how you're wrong!

 

1) I generally win Huttball, and don't do so using any gimmicky compstomps.

2) I haven't QQ'd at all, and am not a Carebear either. I have done no PvE content to date and play on a PvP server. I also don't think that anything CAN be a perfect 50/50, but I also don't agree with imbalance to that extent.

3) What you just said makes no sense, I'd suggest reading things outloud before you post them!

4) I look forward to cross server PvP so I can show you just how wrong you are.

 

But thanks for posting! Being constructive might help me taking your post a bit more serious next time though!

[buubz]

They have 2 30m, one to an enemy and one to an ally. And they can spec for another 10m.

 

Forgot about the Guardian Leap, sorry about that!

[Thorkir]

I tend to find Assassin/Shadow.. very very rarely have the pull ability (is it in a specific spec?) and Vanguards/Powertechs... what are they again? i dont see them in my games

 

Honestly, I find that ability far more annoying than Extricate. Nothing quite like running towards the score line and being yanked backwards and dropped into the pit.

 

I do feel bad for the people I've accidentally bugged out with Extricate, though. Sorry.

 

(Note to self, don't pull people who are immediately below one of the walk-paths...they either get stuck in the ceiling or fall back off the side.)

 

That's what I suggested in my editted OP, a ~15s lockout from being rescued again so that the ability is still relevant to the gametype, but isn't as prone to abuse.

 

Also regarding your edit about the JK/Warrior leap, I don't think that's actually possible. There's only one leap in their toolset that allows for a 30m gap closer. The other is much shorter and both have a ~20s CD

 

I'm fine with that. I only need to use it once for it to be effective (barring matches that are entirely sorcerer versus sorcerer ), and it has a minute CD anyway.

 

Forgot about the Guardian Leap, sorry about that!

 

So THAT's how my teammates keep landing on me.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Thorkir

[Typheran]

lolwut? Actually, Huttball requires the most skill. That is why most people hate it, because their idea of just sit there and shoot people makes them lose. Everyone in Huttball has a role, if you don't perform your role, you will lose. Huttball is the least gear dependent WZ, and the one where skill/teamwork actually show.

 

huttball is class based.

 

Certain classes with a little bit of teamwork will beat certain classes that aren't as useful that use a ton of teamwork.

 

It's game mechanics.

 

A sorc can do anything a agent or Merc can do and more.

 

Teamwork is optional for some of the classes as it stands now. Jumping straight into the pit and interceeding, getting pulled or just force jumping to some nub that just spawned takes very little skill and minor teamwork.

 

In the upcoming SOLO que ranked matches you'll see certain, lackluster classes drop off dramatically.

 

Sadly.. denial is rampant here.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Typheran

[Arrys]

Now now, let's not flame. I'm trying to find a productive solution to multiple rescue chains that destroy the need for passing, and you pull the classic "you're mad"? Shame.

 

productive solutions merc or sniper controlling the high ground blasting the camping sorc to oblivion. Shadow or conceal operative ganking them off the ramp. Marauder or jugg leaping to them and ganking them off the ramp. I love it when Juggs do the leap push into fire. And of course pyros can grapple them into fire. They are kind of sitting ducks up there.

 

It takes 1 player in a DPS spec to knock a sorc/sage off a ramp. Some do it better easier than others, some move across the ramps easier than others, but in the end if your ramp is getting camped your team either is complete fools or so thoroughly outgeared when you try and counter you get owned and would lose anyways. A team that can dominate and hold the center as well as the ramps AKA your spawns side of the field is outright PWNING you for some reason and it isn't pull.

 

I find being a ping pong ball more annoying than pull but then I don't have a KB to reciprocate. Punsihment for having been an ironbreaker I suppose.

 

And yes I've been PWNED by team pulls of battlemasters and in a medicine spec there wasn't anything I could do about it, but on a conceal night off I can keep even better geared sorcs off the ramp.

[buubz]

huttball is class based.

 

Certain classes with a little bit of teamwork will beat certain classes that aren't as useful that use a ton of teamwork.

 

It's game mechanics.

 

A sorc can do anything a agent or Merc can do and more.

 

Teamwork is optional for some of the classes as it stands now. Jumping straight into the pit and interceeding, getting pulled or just force jumping to some nub that just spawned takes very little skill and minor teamwork.

 

In the upcoming SOLO que ranked matches you'll see certain, lackluster classes drop off dramatically.

 

Sadly.. denial is rampant here.

 

Marry me.

[Typheran]

productive solutions merc or sniper controlling the high ground blasting the camping sorc to oblivion. Shadow or conceal operative ganking them off the ramp. Marauder or jugg leaping to them and ganking them off the ramp. I love it when Juggs do the leap push into fire. And of course pyros can grapple them into fire. They are kind of sitting ducks up there.

 

It takes 1 player in a DPS spec to knock a sorc/sage off a ramp. Some do it better easier than others, some move across the ramps easier than others, but in the end if your ramp is getting camped your team either is complete fools or so thoroughly outgeared when you try and counter you get owned and would lose anyways. A team that can dominate and hold the center as well as the ramps AKA your spawns side of the field is outright PWNING you for some reason and it isn't pull.

 

I find being a ping pong ball more annoying than pull but then I don't have a KB to reciprocate. Punsihment for having been an ironbreaker I suppose.

 

And yes I've been PWNED by team pulls of battlemasters and in a medicine spec there wasn't anything I could do about it, but on a conceal night off I can keep even better geared sorcs off the ramp.

 

All this is is EASILY negated by a Jug that grabs the ball interceeds to someone under your side of the ramp and THEN force leaps to someone on your team on the far ramp.

 

in the span of a second or two he's out of your range, LOS'd you while under your ramp. He has at least 19k and the one of two shots you were lucky enough to hit him with did next to nothing... And He's GONE..

 

Now lets pretend your team got lucky and knocked him off.. Now intercede, pull and force jump come into play. So 1, maybe two people can score.. bypassing any form of defense. that's teamwork? 2 people? I think not. 2 people are not a team.. they are a pair. Teamwork isn't the cornerstone of huttball.

 

I'm not saying it's impossible, but its a huge uphill battle if your team doesn't have certain classes.

 

Huttball is class based, not team based. Sure, a little bit of teamwork will make those unblanced classes a whole lot better, but a team of agents and merc will never beat a sorc/jugg team.

 

Sure I can pwn nubs that stand under the ramps and take hits.. but anyone with half a brain can midigate that. DPS does not win huttball..

Edited March 7, 2012 by Typheran

[Ithril]

huttball is class based.

 

Certain classes with a little bit of teamwork will beat certain classes that aren't as useful that use a ton of teamwork.

 

It's game mechanics.

 

A sorc can do anything a agent or Merc can do and more.

 

Teamwork is optional for some of the classes as it stands now. Jumping straight into the pit and interceeding, getting pulled or just force jumping to some nub that just spawned takes very little skill and minor teamwork.

 

In the upcoming SOLO que ranked matches you'll see certain, lackluster classes drop off dramatically.

 

Sadly.. denial is rampant here.

 

This. Almost completely this.

 

The only thing I would add is that it's not that teamwork doesn't matter, or skill doesn't matter. But if one assumes 2 teams of equal skill and equal teamwork, equal gear etc:

 

Team A: 3 sorcs and a Juggie (dps speced for comparison's sake)

 

Team B: 3 mercs and a Powertech (dps speced so he doesn't have charge.)

 

If those two teams play equally well against each other, team A should win pretty much every time. That's the problem.

 

 

 

Also, making those abilities not work on the ball wouldn't be that big a deal.

 

Anyone can see how team A would still have huge advantages over team B in huttball even without being able to pull/charge with the ball. (being able to charge out of pit and then get the ball thrown to them, being able to pull someone up to ramp and away from DPS, etc.)

 

If a change were made to make those abilites not work on the huttball, the classes that are currently the best for huttball would still be the best, it just wouldn't be by such an overwhelmingly large margin.

[SYNAGORE]

To balance sorc friendly pull, when someone is pulled they turn into a sniper for the rest of the warzone.

 

This made my day:)

[Typheran]

This. Almost completely this.

 

The only thing I would add is that it's not that teamwork doesn't matter, or skill doesn't matter. But if one assumes 2 teams of equal skill and equal teamwork, equal gear etc:

 

Team A: 3 sorcs and a Juggie (dps speced for comparison's sake)

 

Team B: 3 mercs and a Powertech (dps speced so he doesn't have charge.)

 

If those two teams play equally well against each other, team A should win pretty much every time. That's the problem.

 

 

 

Also, making those abilities not work on the ball wouldn't be that big a deal.

 

Anyone can see how team A would still have huge advantages over team B in huttball even without being able to pull/charge with the ball. (being able to charge out of pit and then get the ball thrown to them, being able to pull someone up to ramp and away from DPS, etc.)

 

If a change were made to make those abilites not work on the huttball, the classes that are currently the best for huttball would still be the best, it just wouldn't be by such an overwhelmingly large margin.

 

you sir,

 

Are absolutely correct.

 

I don't believe bioware will change this thought. What's worse is that in 1.2 you still won't be able to unque for it... AND you will get a deserter debuff for leaving a warzone that you absolutely hate.

 

This is a fail-policy that Bioware is going forward with. I love PVP and Starwars but I find myself looking to other pvp games with better direction.

[buubz]

I don't believe bioware will change this thought. What's worse is that in 1.2 you still won't be able to unque for it... AND you will get a deserter debuff for leaving a warzone that you absolutely hate.

 

This is a fail-policy that Bioware is going forward with. I love PVP and Starwars but I find myself looking to other pvp games with better direction.

 

It's sad that there have been very few attempts to correct PvP since launch, and it takes a hell of a lot of talking to get even basic things changed (like the nerf to the op/scoundrel ambush). It seems like Bioware thinks that the key to success in an MMO is just announcing new content patches, but not actually changing anything already in the game.

[Coldin]

It's sad that there have been very few attempts to correct PvP since launch, and it takes a hell of a lot of talking to get even basic things changed (like the nerf to the op/scoundrel ambush). It seems like Bioware thinks that the key to success in an MMO is just announcing new content patches, but not actually changing anything already in the game.

 

Funny thing, is that from my perspective, it took very little talking for Operative/Scoundrel nerf. Also note that it wasn't solely the opener that got nerfed, but damage across the board with the armor penetration nerf. On the other side, it's taking an awful lot of talking for any other class to receive a major nerf. The only other big thing we've seen so far is making it more difficult for Shadows/Assassins to change stances.

 

I'd love to see Huttball more based on teamwork and strategy, than certain abilities and classes being more favored due to mechanics of the warzone.

[Hiro]

1) there are mirror classes. both sides have access to the same ablities. specially if you group join. there is NO advantage that wouldnt be available for everyone.

2) friendly pull is a core ability of those classes. taking it away is just like taking away stealth from shadows or dual wield from sentinals. plain stupid.

3) if you lose cause of "chain pulls" you uttlery suck. its impossible to create a "line setup" for chain pulling unless the other team is total retarded. so easy to break that chain.

4) l2p

Edited March 7, 2012 by Hiro

[CaptainInsano]

Im sorry but i think its you that has no clue, it just seems you have come up against a team knowing what they are doing in Hutt Ball it seems that you just a little upset.

 

If BW took out all the abilities that people are complaining about then what type of game would we have?

 

A balanced one? If by "knowing what they're doing" you mean using fundamental class abilities that only those classes have, sure. I'd like to see an Agent who "knows what hes doing" play Huttball like that. Oh wait, the abilities simply don't exist. Maybe the Agent can will his character to jump over the platforms or magically pull his teammate through the air. I can't believe people would actually take pride in being able to run up to a platform and press the Pull button, or target a player on a platform and Force Charge as if they just did some insanely skilled move. Some classes can play Huttball effectively, some can't. Even if you removed those abilities from affecting the ball carrier, those same classes would still be favored for their ability to get open easier. But right now, it's just a joke and not to be taken seriously.

[XenonParsec]

There are way too many bads playing this game, who have NO BUSINESS playing pvp, much less whining about it.

 

Yeah, class abilities matter in PvP, and group comps matter too. Welcome to PvP scrubs, the devs should do NOTHING about this because that's the way PvP is.

 

Do the carebears in PvE go raid with an all tank op? Or 7 sorcs and 1 tank? Or 7 tanks and 1 sorc? No. Why? Because group comp matters in PvE. You need certain classes with certain tools to do certain things.

 

It's the same way in competitive PvP. You want certain classes on your team for their tools. The bads in this thread want to either nerf these tools, or nerf group comps somehow. You people suck and should not be playing mmos, CoD is more your speed. Get friends and make a good PvP group comp, and figure out what YOU can do to foil sage/sorc pull instead of asking the Devs to compensate for your bad play. Protip: it's real easy, KD sorc/sage from their perch on the bridge, or if you're Sin/PT pull them right back. I hope this helps.

[Hiro]

There are way too many bads playing this game, who have NO BUSINESS playing pvp, much less whining about it.

 

Yeah, class abilities matter in PvP, and group comps matter too. Welcome to PvP scrubs, the devs should do NOTHING about this because that's the way PvP is.

 

Do the carebears in PvE go raid with an all tank op? Or 7 sorcs and 1 tank? Or 7 tanks and 1 sorc? No. Why? Because group comp matters in PvE. You need certain classes with certain tools to do certain things.

 

It's the same way in competitive PvP. You want certain classes on your team for their tools. The bads in this thread want to either nerf these tools, or nerf group comps somehow. You people suck and should not be playing mmos, CoD is more your speed. Get friends and make a good PvP group comp, and figure out what YOU can do to foil sage/sorc pull instead of asking the Devs to compensate for your bad play. Protip: it's real easy, KD sorc/sage from their perch on the bridge, or if you're Sin/PT pull them right back. I hope this helps.

 

wise man talking

too few of them left in this game

[lexiekaboom]

 

Do the carebears in PvE go raid with an all tank op? Or 7 sorcs and 1 tank? Or 7 tanks and 1 sorc? No. Why? Because group comp matters in PvE. You need certain classes with certain tools to do certain things.

 

7 sorcs and 1 tank is without question the ideal group for a raid. There is nothing missing from that group at all that any other class could offer. Our 16 man raid force just FINALLY got rid of our last non-sage healer and OMG things are so much easier now. Now we just need to get rid of all the stupid DPS classes that can't heal themselves or bubble themselves for damage phases and we would be perfect.

 

I assume from your post that you don't really understand the game well (seeing you resort to insulting people and using words like carebears instead of trying to make solid points) but I will at least ask; what's the raid tool you think some non-sorc class has to offer?

 

Sorcs have: Mez, single target damage, AoE dmg, single target burst healing, single target HOT, single target and self damage mitigation (bubble), combat rez, self mana regen, interrupt, a distance closing ablity, knock down (the only knock down with no cooldown) and stun.

 

There is not a single tool that is in the game for any other class that they do not have.

Edited March 7, 2012 by lexiekaboom

[Typheran]

There are way too many bads playing this game, who have NO BUSINESS playing pvp, much less whining about it.

 

Yeah, class abilities matter in PvP, and group comps matter too. Welcome to PvP scrubs, the devs should do NOTHING about this because that's the way PvP is.

 

Do the carebears in PvE go raid with an all tank op? Or 7 sorcs and 1 tank? Or 7 tanks and 1 sorc? No. Why? Because group comp matters in PvE. You need certain classes with certain tools to do certain things.

 

It's the same way in competitive PvP. You want certain classes on your team for their tools. The bads in this thread want to either nerf these tools, or nerf group comps somehow. You people suck and should not be playing mmos, CoD is more your speed. Get friends and make a good PvP group comp, and figure out what YOU can do to foil sage/sorc pull instead of asking the Devs to compensate for your bad play. Protip: it's real easy, KD sorc/sage from their perch on the bridge, or if you're Sin/PT pull them right back. I hope this helps.

 

 

 

wise man talking

too few of them left in this game

 

 

Wait... He's a wise man because he says that only certain classes should be useful in pvp?

 

He's a wise man because he says that people that don't play certain classes shouldn't pvp? that's the dumest thing I've heard today.

 

um...

 

 

 

NO.

 

 

If that is your version of wise.. I feel sorry for you.

 

no offense.

 

 

All classes should have there niche in PVP AND PVE. Sadly Merc and agents have little to no utility in the current THEME based pvp system Bioware has jammed into the game.

 

I miss world PVP.

[Typheran]

7 sorcs and 1 tank is without question the ideal group for a raid. There is nothing missing from that group at all that any other class could offer. Our 16 man raid force just FINALLY got rid of our last non-sage healer and OMG things are so much easier now. Now we just need to get rid of all the stupid DPS classes that can't heal themselves or bubble themselves for damage phases and we would be perfect.

 

I assume from your post that you don't really understand the game well (seeing you resort to insulting people and using words like carebears instead of trying to make solid points) but I will at least ask; what's the raid tool you think some non-sorc class has to offer?

 

Sorcs have: Mez, single target damage, AoE dmg, single target burst healing, single target HOT, single target and self damage mitigation (bubble), combat rez, self mana regen, interrupt, a distance closing ablity, knock down (the only knock down with no cooldown) and stun.

 

There is not a single tool that is in the game for any other class that they do not have.

 

They can't tank and their burst damage ins't the greatest in the game.. but other than that.. you are correct.