How BioWare is ruining Role Play...

[RebelWeasel]

I think some people need to be reminded of the definition of "you", "I", "harm", and "Star Wars".

 

"I" am a being who is not you. This is my body. This is my mind. This is my copy of the game I pay for. This is my RP character.

 

"You" are a being who is not me. That is your body. That is your mind. That is your copy of the game you pay for. That is your RP character.

 

"harm" is provable hurt done to a living being. Physical harm cannot exist within the game play of a video game. This leaves us with emotional harm and legal harm. Emotional harm is the use of offensive verbal attacks against a specific person with the intent to psychologically bully or manipulate that person. Legal harm is to attempt to incite others to hatred, emotional harm, or acts of shaming/debasement based on gossip, slander, or character assassination.

 

"Star Wars" is a piece of intellectual property owned by a corporate concern, and includes thousands of people who contribute to it as a whole. Star Wars is not a living entity. It does not feel emotional harm. There are rules in the EULA which specifically protect the entity of Star Wars from legal harm. If a player see another player doing something in the game which is a legal harm against the Star Wars entity, he should go through the proper legal channels which have been explained and provided to you free of cost in the EULA.

 

The people who nitpick and complain about video game lore, Star Wars canon, and other game or RP issues for SWTOR have forgotten a these vital definitions. "You" and "I" both own ---through our individual national laws, and by right of purchase from BioWare---the rights to play our characters the way we want to insofar that we do not violate the EULA agreement, and do not cause actual harm to others.

 

You have no authority to tell me or Star Wars what to do. I have no authority to tell you or Star Wars what to do. Star Wars only has authority to limit our actions to protect itself from legal harm.

 

If a complaining type person, literally thinks he has the right to control other entities, he is attempting an illegal act to with-hold that entity's freedom. My suggestion to such people is that they take care of themselves better and learn to give themselves the same level of attention and focus they seem to have mislaid against others. It is not your right, and you only harm and neglect yourself by wasting your time. Besides that, you are infringing on a law which exists to protect people like me from people like you.

 

"This is my dance[game] space, that is your dance[pgame] space" --- Dirty Dancing.

[Jazshen]

Most of this discussion seems to be around Jedi's using red sabers and how that's lore breaking.

 

But what about the Light-side Sith?

 

My character is Lightside, and not an idiot. He does not want go around with a blue or green lightsaber telegraphing his alignment. I'd like to have a red saber for RP so he can at least pretend he's a loyal member of the Empire, but at the moment I can't. As it is, I use an orange crystal, as it's as close as I can get.

 

I support removing the restrictions, it's good for RP.

Edited March 26, 2012 by Jazshen

[Sneakycheeks]

Only a role-player can ruin their own experience. This, sir, is just you nit-picking.

 

This is true. A good Role-player can take anything and turn it or change it so that it works and fits the character that they are playing.

[Marlon]

You have no clue what you are talking about. First of all a red light saber during this time period is the mark of the Sith and of the dark side. The other colors are in abundant supply but also hold traditional meanings.

 

 

 

The switch to blue and green only was specifically noticed only after Episode 3 and before Episode 4 really.

 

Now back to the topic at hand... So are you telling me it doesn't ruin role play when you see Jedi Knight's running around the Jedi Temple on Tython with a red blade when this time period marks that Knight as a Sith / Dark Side user?

 

I'm sorry but these changes remove the suspension of disbelief. What BioWare should do is make these changes on the regular servers and leave things as is (or modified better for actual lore) on the RP servers.

 

My inquistor uses a green saber and wears grey robes. He is darkside but he uses guile and subterfuge to move around the galaxy. It's his goal to look like a jedi until it's too late or he is in battle, and this all helps him. It's is kinda simple to explain away some of these changes.

[chimex]

 

Now back to the topic at hand... So are you telling me it doesn't ruin role play when you see Jedi Knight's running around the Jedi Temple on Tython with a red blade when this time period marks that Knight as a Sith / Dark Side user?

 

I'm sorry but these changes remove the suspension of disbelief. What BioWare should do is make these changes on the regular servers and leave things as is (or modified better for actual lore) on the RP servers.

 

Well, yes. some of us are saying just that. If you can RP it, i see no problem with this.

 

Point in note, I have a Jedi Sentinal, two light sabres of course. In my main hand, the blade is orange (i want purple, but having vittle luck in this so far lol)

 

In my off hand, a red blade. And Why? i hear you ask. What possible reason could there be for a Jedi to own a red light sabre?

 

Well, its simple, it's the light sabre of the first Sith i was matched against and defeated. (no, it really is, i've been keeping it on par with the levels by modidng it).

 

and the orange one, i have been tinkering with it to "optomise" my skills with a blade.

 

There's a perfectly good reason right there why a Jedi can have a red light sabre.

 

Of course, your caracter can scoff at this, it IS RP afterall

 

x

[Guildrum]

I fail to see why people are getting so worked up about this... It's better than forcing restrictions on saber colors...

 

When I made the game (on a PVE server) me and my dad decided to make a body type 4 Jedi, and just do all dark side decisions. Wasn't long before I was unable to use the blue lightsaber crystal on my character. And so there he was, a fat Jedi Knight, running around the Senate Tower with a red lightsaber.

 

Senators: "I'm sure he's harmless."

 

Imagine this was done on a RP server, how would I have explained it until I got a yellow crystal? By removing restrictions, it allows sensible RPers to make sensible decisions, like using a blue lightsaber as a Jedi despite falling to the dark side, and then proceeding to switch out your lightsaber when not in public.

[The_Smith]

There isn't a good reason for Sith to use lightsabres, regardless of colour! In ROTJ, the Emperor takes Luke's lightsabre and says 'Ah yes, a Jedi's weapon'. The inference being there that lightsabres were not used by Sith and maybe Vader's use of one was a hang-over from his days as a Jedi. All this nonsense about colour is from the EU and prequels and can be ignored as one sees fit. I only accept the original three films as cannon, so as far as I'm concerned The Emperor didn't have a lightsabre because he was powerful enough not to need one. I think Bioware have missed a trick by making the Sith too reliant on sabres and not other weapons or the Dark Side.

 

The original Luke Skywalker figure shipped with a yellow one, by the way

[Darth-Malice]

Well this threads got That Nerd Rage

[Remair]

The game engine lets you run around naked shouting "lollolololol". That doesn't ruin RP.. because RPers don't do it. As any good RPer isn't going to use force choke when playing a non-FS character and IC. As for lightsaber... its better the new way. Means you can RP a sith, have a red saber, and not have to worry what LS/DS options you happen to choose while leveling.

 

Giving players more options = good for RP.

[Bluerodian]

 

The people who nitpick and complain about video game lore, Star Wars canon, and other game or RP issues for SWTOR have forgotten a these vital definitions. "You" and "I" both own ---through our individual national laws, and by right of purchase from BioWare---the rights to play our characters the way we want to insofar that we do not violate the EULA agreement, and do not cause actual harm to others.

 

 

False. We do not have the right to play our characters in any way we want. We only have the right to play them how Bioware wants within their extremely narrow and linear format.

 

There is no "Jumping the script" in this game, as it were.

[Darth_Slaine]

False. We do not have the right to play our characters in any way we want. We only have the right to play them how Bioware wants within their extremely narrow and linear format.

 

There is no "Jumping the script" in this game, as it were.

 

The class-quests are a mini-game.

[RebelWeasel]

False. We do not have the right to play our characters in any way we want. We only have the right to play them how Bioware wants within their extremely narrow and linear format.

 

There is no "Jumping the script" in this game, as it were.

 

My statement was written in the context of game play style within role play interactions with other players, insofar as how our interactions with each other should be kept fairly divided between healthy psychological boundaries of where you end and I begin.

 

If you wish to complain about the game story content, it has nothing to do with my statement. I stand by what I said, your gaming style within your role play is completely within your control, and healthy people should not be trying to control other's personal spheres of personality and self-expression. You are not being forced to include the companions, class quest, or other game features in your role play.

 

Here is an example:

My character is a smuggler but I do not role play that I am a smuggler. I role play that I am a sound engineer who by unhappy coincidence ended up being an entertainer. This has absolutely nothing to do with the game mechanics. Nothing about the class quest prevents me from role playing as a sound engineer forced to perform on a stage when the original performer stomped off and refused to do his show. When I perform the class missions I do them OOCly to level my character and nothing more. One time I did RP through the entire storyline and I simply ignored the script, and made my own excuses for my character's actions. Did Skavik steal my ship? No, I have a roque droid who stole my ship.

 

I can dismiss my companions and completely ignore them in my role play. I am not limited in any way in how I RP my character except by the boundaries of my own sense of good taste and imagination.

 

I completely feel your pain about the linear environment. I agree that this game is horrifyingly oppressive to people with imaginations and creativity. However, your complaint has absolutely no bearing whatsoever with my statements. It's about the game play itself. I agree with you, but again, bringing it up now is nothing more than a straw-man topic. It's not relevant to what I said. I believe I have already, by example of my smuggler character, proven how the linearity of the story line does not have to influence your RP in any way.

 

Therefore, your answer to my statement, while valid for people who wish to RP through the class content is perhaps, another topic to discuss in regards to obstacles BioWare places for role players, I don't believe it is an accurate reply to my assertions, that people should keep their control issues within their own characters and leave other people's characters alone.

[CosmicKat]

False. We do not have the right to play our characters in any way we want. We only have the right to play them how Bioware wants within their extremely narrow and linear format.

 

There is no "Jumping the script" in this game, as it were.

 

The plotted storylines are an entertaining solo game the first couple of times through them. Anyone could RP their character using any or all of it to formulate their background, or ignore it completely. It's your choice. I think any 'ingame content' in any mmo is best viewed abstractly. Being the saviour of the universe or killing the same orc champion in Blackburrow 100's of times is just as easily written off, RP-wise, as "training".

 

Personally, I don't get how people can completely ignore every aspect of the game mechanics and RP their character as something completely detatched from the class, level, etc. Well, I can understand the RP reasons why one might want to play a sound engineer, servant, rent-a-cop, or whatever. I can also understand why someone might want to play an elite Jedi who moonlights as a rent-a-cop. I don't get why any plyaer would spend many hours levelling a Jedi to 50th and then completely ignore the ingame reality that they are 50th level Jedi. Of course, temporarily ignoring ingame realities for the sake of a roleplayed 'npc' is different.

[PackmanR]

There isn't a good reason for Sith to use lightsabres, regardless of colour! In ROTJ, the Emperor takes Luke's lightsabre and says 'Ah yes, a Jedi's weapon'. The inference being there that lightsabres were not used by Sith and maybe Vader's use of one was a hang-over from his days as a Jedi. All this nonsense about colour is from the EU and prequels and can be ignored as one sees fit. I only accept the original three films as cannon, so as far as I'm concerned The Emperor didn't have a lightsabre because he was powerful enough not to need one. I think Bioware have missed a trick by making the Sith too reliant on sabres and not other weapons or the Dark Side.

 

The original Luke Skywalker figure shipped with a yellow one, by the way

 

This makes no sense whatsoever. You can't choose which elements of Star Wars are canon; you don't own it. And as for Palpatine...he's OLD, like Yoda in the originals, who uses no lightsaber. They're simply too fragile for saber dueling at that age. That's not to say that they can't, but they'd be at a serious disadvantage.

[RebelWeasel]

Personally, I don't get how people can completely ignore every aspect of the game mechanics and RP their character as something completely detatched from the class, level, etc. Well, I can understand the RP reasons why one might want to play a sound engineer, servant, rent-a-cop, or whatever. I can also understand why someone might want to play an elite Jedi who moonlights as a rent-a-cop. I don't get why any plyaer would spend many hours levelling a Jedi to 50th and then completely ignore the ingame reality that they are 50th level Jedi. Of course, temporarily ignoring ingame realities for the sake of a roleplayed 'npc' is different.

 

Well because there are only 8 classes in the game. That means at every party you're going to meet tons of other people just like you. It's boring. Why ignore the entire range and scope of limitless professions you can incorporate in your role play? Honestly, the most boring RP I am forced to watch are the groups of 10 Jedi arguing over Jedi Code, or the myriads of Smugglers who all try to out-character each other with wink-wink-nudge-nudges. One or two Smugglers in a room is nice. 30 of them gets boring and dull fast.

 

Diversity is important in RP just as it is in the real world. Without individual personalities and characters in our lives, the world is a boring dull pedantic place.

[CosmicKat]

Well because there are only 8 classes in the game. That means at every party you're going to meet tons of other people just like you. It's boring. Why ignore the entire range and scope of limitless professions you can incorporate in your role play? Honestly, the most boring RP I am forced to watch are the groups of 10 Jedi arguing over Jedi Code, or the myriads of Smugglers who all try to out-character each other with wink-wink-nudge-nudges. One or two Smugglers in a room is nice. 30 of them gets boring and dull fast.

 

Diversity is important in RP just as it is in the real world. Without individual personalities and characters in our lives, the world is a boring dull pedantic place.

 

I understand the RP rationale and anyone is free to RP whatever they like. However, if you are one of the "I won't RP till 50" crowd, and you decide to RP a mundane "civvie"... then you are just silly.

 

Canon-ites are usually what makes the gaggles of any particular class so generic. Sticking to lore means one-dimensional characters because the source material is full of unrealistic, one-dimensional characters.

 

The difference between SW and other high fantasy RP worlds is that Jedi/Sith "race" override classes. Where other mmo worlds have the loose fighter/ranger/rogue/cleric lore to draw from in their particular worlds, we in SWTOR are stuck with guardian/sentinel/shadow/sage and all of those are overridden with the RP albatross of being primarily a Jedi. "Sticking to lore" is what makes a group of 10 Jedi boringly generic.

[Trols]

Most of what I wanted to say have been said by the Jawa, but I just wanted to support him.

 

Bioware cannot ruin our roleplay, because the company and its programmers do not define what we should roleplay. The Canon does. The canon which is detailed in the Extended Universe backed by Lucas, and can be found on wookiepedia also known as http://starwars.wikia.com

 

And even the Canon I believe can be stretched a tiny bit within reason (when actual information is missing) as long as it is logical and not directly against canon - for the sake of roleplay.

 

The characters we play though the questlines of this game is not actual suitable Roleplay Characters - they are antagonist characters, archetypes which main purpose is meant to entertain the people paying for the game. Personally I find my RP with other RP'ers much more entertaining and the emotions much more realistic.

 

While RP with these archetypes is possible within the antagonist story, trying to do so with other roleplayers will most likely get you laughed at. Trust me, if all lvl 50 Inquisitors did so... well there is a saying about too many chefs spoil the food.

 

Game mechanics is one thing, in character is something else entirely. I am surprised not all experienced roleplayers agree on this by now.

 

 

In the end, I see RP as a way to tell a story, together with other people, using our joined imagination, in the frame set by the creators of the "universe" in this case Lucas, not Bioware. I could do this in a simple chatbox, but I do like the visual presentation offered in MMO's (despite having to ignore some of what I see at times)

 

 

All this said, and to return to the original purpose of the topic.

Restrictions lifted on such things as colour crystals is a boon to our RP. In fact, I would appreciate it if all -gear- restrictions was lifted so that game mechanics and character visualisation could better represent the actual In Character appearance of my character.

Why cannot a Sith use a blaster? There are no logical IC reasons to this, and "/e pull out his blaster" is our last resort.

 

As for the abilities, yes. I agree, for a chiss agent to suddenly be able to use "force grib" is silly. Just the canon regarding Chiss Force-users should give a hint at this (they are very few).

But it is not ruining roleplay to add another ability to our avatar through game mechanics.

 

Remember, in the end, it is up to the roleplayers to make their roleplay realistic, and just because the avatar have an ability does it mean their character have it. If you have it, and choose to use it IC as a Chiss, I will need a good reasoning why its possible, just as why the heck your Pureblood Sith have decided to serve as a Republic Trooper (and why the republic allows for it).

 

EDIT:

As for the sillyness in leveling a char to 50 for RP. I agree, but not for the same reasons you find it silly. No I agree because I personally play this game for the RP and I hate leveling. I have leveled one char, and that is actually enough to give me the credits I need for RP gear.

 

But, while mentioning RP gear, I come to the non-silly reason for leveling chars. I like to equip my avatars so they look as much as possible like the character I roleplay. This often warrant certain levels for certain sets. Not to mention the non-silly reason of being able to roleplay outside of cities and safe zones - which a lvl 14 cannot.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Trols

[Freyrr]

Bioware cannot ruin our roleplay, because the company and its programmers do not define what we should roleplay. The Canon does. The canon which is detailed in the Extended Universe backed by Lucas, and can be found on wookiepedia also known as http://starwars.wikia.com

 

And even the Canon I believe can be stretched a tiny bit within reason (when actual information is missing) as long as it is logical and not directly against canon - for the sake of roleplay.

 

You make a very good point on this part but what so often ruins roleplay for so many people is that they insist that the Canon can not be stretched at all and everything must fit neatly. When you look at the way Lucas straight up insult canon with all his digital upgrades to the OT that make no sense it's clear that nothing in Star Wars is set in stone. I get so sick of people acting like our very RP has to follow a strict path or else the great Lucas in the sky will sneak into our room at night and destroy us all.

 

Sure sometimes things get a bit off or silly but if people enjoy it and have fun then why stop it. The way I see it if people can manage to RP long drawn out stories on message boards there is no way they can't RP in almost any game. Sometimes people will play the good and noble Jedi and defend the weak. Other time mouse droids named Jormy fall in love with Weasels. So long as we have a good time who cares, SWTOR is made to be a game first and just happens to fit nicely for RP. Don't sit here and complain, go find your Padwan and lecture them on proper social conduct to make sure you never have to deal with us crazy people.

[CosmicKat]

 

*snipped*

 

The characters we play though the questlines of this game is not actual suitable Roleplay Characters - they are antagonist characters, archetypes which main purpose is meant to entertain the people paying for the game. Personally I find my RP with other RP'ers much more entertaining and the emotions much more realistic.

 

While RP with these archetypes is possible within the antagonist story, trying to do so with other roleplayers will most likely get you laughed at. Trust me, if all lvl 50 Inquisitors did so... well there is a saying about too many chefs spoil the food.

 

It doesn't take much of a leap to RP the class quests almost as is.

 

I believe Coruscant is supposed to have trillions of inhabitants? That is 1000's of times Earth's population. In a universe where planets had trillions of people the Jedi Order would need hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Jedi to have any impact at all on that scale. Saviours of the universe would be a dime a dozen.

[Guildrum]

It doesn't take much of a leap to RP the class quests almost as is.

 

I believe Coruscant is supposed to have trillions of inhabitants? That is 1000's of times Earth's population. In a universe where planets had trillions of people the Jedi Order would need hundreds of thousands, if not millions of Jedi to have any impact at all on that scale. Saviours of the universe would be a dime a dozen.

 

Except for one thing. How do you justify, say as a trooper, being the CO of Havoc Squad, as well as the trooper to your left, your right, behind you and in front of you? It's not the "savior of the galaxy" thing, it's the ability for there to be only ONE Havoc Squad CO.

Edited April 11, 2012 by Guildrum

[CosmicKat]

Except for one thing. How do you justify, say as a trooper, being the CO of Havoc Squad, as well as the trooper to your left, your right, behind you and in front of you? It's not the "savior of the galaxy" thing, it's the ability for there to be only ONE Havoc Squad CO.

 

You could just pretend you are CO of Havoc Squad 6, or Mayhem Squad, or whatever. I'm not familiar with the Trooper storyline or the significance of Havoc Squad.

 

My Jedi has IC experienced slightly toned down versions of the "quests" she has done. Saved planets, rescued helpless colonists, killed cartoonishly evil Sith, etc. but also under the assumption that those are fairly common things for all Jedi to do. She doesn't report to THE Jedi Council, but some lower level of the command structure.

 

I guess it is more of a general background thing and I prefer the backgrounds of my characters to be at least partially connected to the levelling, questing, crafting, and PvPing sides of the game. Maybe it's just a playstyle thing. I would rather play mildly IC 100% of the time than heavily IC 10% of the time.

[Sarfux]

it's usually not the maker that ruins roleplaying..

 

its the people

[Darth-Malice]

Want to know why there is no drama in pen and paper rpgs? Because all the players are within striking distance.

[Nicolettexiv]

Sith use red lightsabers. Jedi use blue-and-green. The Light/Dark restrictions have NOTHING to do with being Jedi or Sith. A Dark-Side Jedi can't use Jedi colors because of his dark alignment, while a Light-Side Sith can't use red because of his light alignment. I argue that this move actually HELPS role-play.

 

As for the "heroic ability unlock. . ." yeah, that bothers me a bit. Though it would be cool to have a Sith Warrior who can use Force Lightning, or a Sith Assassin with some improved lightsaber attacks, an Imperial Agent using Force Choke. . . well, you could RP it as a miniature tractor beam projector mounted in your armor. . .

 

However, if this were beyond the constraints of a game, a sith or jedi could choose the color they wish to use - whether they wish to fall in line with the traditions of their predecessors, or go out of their way to acquire a blade of the opposite alignment, for whatever purposes. (To hide their corruption from their peers, to infiltrate the opposing side, etc) and maybe the reason the crystals were limited originally was tied to where/how they were acquired. Maybe the blue crystals were only farmed on Tython, and thus to acquire one, your sith had to kill a jedi and snatch his saber. It's up to you how you want to work that story.

 

With the heroic unlocks.. the restrictions on them will make them rare, and you're rather unlikely to see them used in a group unless a companion is out. Moreover, RP wise - you could choose not to utilize the ability, or your family tree could include a force user, to which your agent is related, and in moments of crises, those small traces of the force acquired through your blood ties exerts itself in the name of self preservation.

 

I don't think this breaks RP, but adds more potential dimensions to it.

[bionamaster]

Hello, I will swiftly make a Pure Sith Councilor upon release of 1.2 and here is my RP reasoning for it.

 

My talented pilot named Captain Jakob Keyes has crossed my blood craving Sith warrior named Darth Travan on multiple occasions, one such occasion has lead to a rather strange situation... Captain Jakob Keyes found a baby Sith Pureblood in Darth Travons Estate when he was recovering some precious cargo the good Darth 'apprehended'. Jakob handed the child over to the Jedi council and the child grew to truly believe in the ways of the Jedi.

 

Eventually the young Sith meets the old Captain and Captain presents him with a gift, it's the lightsaber of his farther. The Captain explains everything that happened between him and the young Siths farther and it further stirred the Sith's commitment to the Jedi...

 

Now this Sith has one goal, to bring his race into the light.

Bravo! That is movie worthy! Seriously, good story!