Knockbacks...

[Belazor]

Those of you who expected a QQ thread... Well you're kinda right actually xD

 

I play a Jedi Sentinel, currently level 25, but I also have a lv50 Sith Assassin on a different realm.

My question to you is, what is a melee supposed to do with the amount of knockback and immobilise ranged classes have?

 

From what I can tell (I may be wrong in some of these):

Bounty Hunters / Troopers have a knockback skill that applies a slow, and is on around 12 second cooldown.

Consulars / Inquisitors have their knockback that Sages / Inquisitors can talent into an immobilise.

Gunslingers / Snipers have a talent that knocks you back further than any other knockback and immobilises you for 6 seconds.

 

Now out of those, a Shadow / Assassin's knockback is more or less fine, you can counter that as a Sentinel by using Leg Slash as they will most likely only use that if they are trying to escape.

 

But all the others just eat me up. If I walk up to a ranged target, they have taken me down to ~50% health before I'm there because they have ranged slows. If I Force Leap, they instantly knock me back and then kill me.

 

I know that later I will get Force Camo and as a Watchman, I will be immune to damage during its duration, but that has a hefty CD compared to the CD of the aforementioned knockbacks.

 

Considering I meet so many more ranged classes than melee classes in PvP, I reiterate: What am I supposed to do?

[LordbishopX]

USE LOS if you can then pop your defense cds up front close on foot on knock back that's when you leap and go to work use leg slash. Popping your defense cds as soon as they attack mitigates tons of the damage. Biggest mistake many make is leap first....

 

I love it when I get grappled or force pulled by someone means almost certainly a easy kill lol.

Edited March 6, 2012 by LordbishopX

[Othed]

Ranged can be a big issue for you on melee. On my powertech I have the issue with shadow and sages just running away from me. But most of there tricks only work once and if you get changed CC then you are dealing with more then one ranged and you will die. Just learn to pick targets and use your tools. Takes some time to get right. If you see a game of all ranged then be ready to die a lot.

[Neithian]

In terms of knockbacks what you need to do is stagger your gap closers. This means not opening with force leap unless you have to for example. If you can sneak next to them and start wailing on them the general reaction of most people with knockback is to press knockback, at that point simply force leap to them and laugh as they die. If you open with force leap and get knocked back get close enough to force stasis/pacify/etc. and then repeat. You can do that pretty easy with force camo as many knockback classes do not have readily available close in AoEs to break you from stealth.

[Belazor]

Hmm, is it balanced to have to rely on 1-2 minute CDs to stand a chance against a certain archetype?

 

Considering ranged classes currently do not have a "minimum range", it's not like they are entirely useless against melee if we get right up in their faces - especially because 1v1 there are (to my knowledge) no true "stunlock" capable classes in the game.

 

If they have so many tools for getting us off them / keeping us off (immobilise where we can't even Force Leap being the biggest PITA), then why are they able to attack in melee range still? =/

[EdAraujo]

On my 50 guardian, what I'm trying to do is throw saber -> LoS -> wait some guy to come -> start fighting using my 27 quickslots with my back to the wall.

 

Almost impossible to do on Hutt Ball. But it is a good strategy on voidstar.

 

On my vanguard, I roll over anyone. The guy is ranged? Pfff. Stick granade, Cryo granade, High Impact Bolt, full auto, 2 more abilites, done. The guy is melee? Stock strike, Stick Granade, throw some lighting, break cast, Ion Pulse, stock again, Ion Pulse, done. The guy is running? Harpoon.

 

Really balanced.

[Neithian]

Hmm, is it balanced to have to rely on 1-2 minute CDs to stand a chance against a certain archetype?

 

Considering ranged classes currently do not have a "minimum range", it's not like they are entirely useless against melee if we get right up in their faces - especially because 1v1 there are (to my knowledge) no true "stunlock" capable classes in the game.

 

If they have so many tools for getting us off them / keeping us off (immobilise where we can't even Force Leap being the biggest PITA), then why are they able to attack in melee range still? =/

 

I dunno what skill your referring to but I'm guessing its resolute. Even if that is on CD unless I am being focused on by the DPS the ranged class won't kill me. I have too many tools at my disposal, and no I am not a Biochem . Use WZ adrenals and medpacs, they help a ton. So assuming you get geared(14.5k health minimum imo) you will do just fine against ranged classes.

 

Are ranged a pain? Oh yes. I just make sure to make them pay every chance I get .

[Belazor]

On my 50 guardian, what I'm trying to do is throw saber -> LoS -> wait some guy to come -> start fighting using my 27 quickslots with my back to the wall.

 

Almost impossible to do on Hutt Ball. But it is a good strategy on voidstar.

 

On my vanguard, I roll over anyone. The guy is ranged? Pfff. Stick granade, Cryo granade, High Impact Bolt, full auto, 2 more abilites, done. The guy is melee? Stock strike, Stick Granade, throw some lighting, break cast, Ion Pulse, stock again, Ion Pulse, done. The guy is running? Harpoon.

 

Really balanced.

Lol yeah xD

 

The number of skills don't help me either as I sometimes tend to melt under pressure

 

I dunno what skill your referring to but I'm guessing its resolute. Even if that is on CD unless I am being focused on by the DPS the ranged class won't kill me. I have too many tools at my disposal, and no I am not a Biochem . Use WZ adrenals and medpacs, they help a ton. So assuming you get geared(14.5k health minimum imo) you will do just fine against ranged classes.

 

Are ranged a pain? Oh yes. I just make sure to make them pay every chance I get .

Rebuke + Saber Ward is what I was referring to primarily, as thus far they are the only survivability CDs I have.

 

I am Biochem though, of course low-level medpacks / stims / adrenals don't do much of anything at my level xD

 

I still think ranged is OP in this game though. rageface.jpg

[Neithian]

Lol yeah xD

 

The number of skills don't help me either as I sometimes tend to melt under pressure

 

Rebuke + Saber Ward is what I was referring to primarily, as thus far they are the only survivability CDs I have.

 

I am Biochem though, of course low-level medpacks / stims / adrenals don't do much of anything at my level xD

 

I still think ranged is OP in this game though. rageface.jpg

 

The big thing is to figure out what your cds are good against, example reubke=20% damage reduction for 30 seconds against everything. Saber ward is deflection and 20% tech/froce dmge reduction. Melees typically don't hit me too hard( in my experience) so I use rebuke on them and saber ward on bounty hunters and sorcs. Sometimes I use both back to back or switch it up somehow but you get the idea. Also once you get guarded by the force it becomes insanely hard to kill you. Get to 4% hp use guarded by the force, pop a health pack, go back to 20% hp, profit. ^.^

[Keja]

The best advice is to level up. Knights are slow in getting key abilities while ranged (especially sages/sorcs) get a lot of good abilities early.

 

A few general things though:

- Hit them with Leg slash early - even Gunslingers/Snipers (unless they have Hunker Down/Entrench up).

- Don't run across an open field at them while they're attacking you (see Pickett's Charge).

- It can be okay to Force Leap to them if you snare them right away.

- Discretion is the better part of valor. Don't be afraid to disengage and LOS.

- Use pacify on appropriate classes.

 

With few exceptions, I prefer to use cooldowns defensively rather than offensively. You can't do anything when you're dead.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Keja

[Belazor]

The best advice is to level up. Knights are slow in getting key abilities while ranged (especially sages/sorcs) get a lot of good abilities early.

 

A few general things though:

- Hit them with Leg slash early - even Gunslingers/Snipers (unless they have Hunker Down/Entrench up).

- Don't run across an open field at them while they're attacking you (see Pickett's Charge).

- It can be okay to Force Leap to them if you snare them right away.

- Discretion is the better part of valor. Don't be afraid to disengage and LOS.

- Use pacify on appropriate classes.

 

With few exceptions, I prefer to use cooldowns defensively rather than offensively. You can't do anything when you're dead.

Awesome tips, thanks I wiki'd Pickett's Charge, and I caught myself thinking "hah that was dumb" not realising I probably do the exact same thing in every PvP match.

 

I'm really glad I didn't post this in the PvP forum like I originally planned, once I calmed down I rewrote my post so it was less mindless QQ and more actual "okay, I admit, I have no idea what I'm doing"

 

You guys are great

[LordbishopX]

Awesome tips, thanks I wiki'd Pickett's Charge, and I caught myself thinking "hah that was dumb" not realising I probably do the exact same thing in every PvP match.

 

I'm really glad I didn't post this in the PvP forum like I originally planned, once I calmed down I rewrote my post so it was less mindless QQ and more actual "okay, I admit, I have no idea what I'm doing"

 

You guys are great

 

I wish more peeps was up to learning how to play instead of rage quit this game sucks nerf them more qq.

[Belazor]

Hmm I just realised, what about getting away from a ranged? If, say, a Merc spotted me and I need to get away, what then? (I say Merc because they are the most mobile ranged class I know of, in my limited knowledge of anything that is not an Assassin or a low-level Sentinel).

 

I'm thinking; Force Camo and leg it as far away as I can, and if that's on CD then Force Leap towards someone in the opposite direction even if you have no intentions of engaging them.

 

That sound about right?

[Keja]

Hmm I just realised, what about getting away from a ranged? If, say, a Merc spotted me and I need to get away, what then? (I say Merc because they are the most mobile ranged class I know of, in my limited knowledge of anything that is not an Assassin or a low-level Sentinel).

 

I'm thinking; Force Camo and leg it as far away as I can, and if that's on CD then Force Leap towards someone in the opposite direction even if you have no intentions of engaging them.

 

That sound about right?

 

Absolutely.

 

Force Camo is great for escaping. Most people instantly forget about you as soon as you disappear anyway, but throw in a direction change and 98% of the time you're home free.

 

Leap can work too, but often times people will target you if they see you low on health.

 

A Merc is pretty easy to escape from since their main attack (Tracer Missle) roots them for 1.5 sec when cast. If in doubt, snare and run around a pillar or corner.

 

It's pretty easy to keep people out of LOS by dancing back and forth behind an object when they have a cast time ability. You can easily buy some time for the last few seconds of a cool down to finish.

[LordbishopX]

leg slash -> force camo and move out....

[Dissentus]

Just be glad you aren't an operative/scoundrel as far as knockbacks are concerned.

[Zag_Stratos]

The biggest tool a Jedi has is his tactical mind and awarness.

 

You don't actually need million of binds to do good

You don't actually need the best of the best gear

You don't need a pocket healer and all those luxury

 

 

What you need is a brain and know how to choose your fights. Best example I can give...

 

I'm on Ilum and see a Bounty Hunter in full BM (I'm in champion) - I run towards him and start fighting. I gave him a good 5 seconds to mentally prepare for the fight. Results? I died...

 

I get a bit frustrated of my performance but figured, meh, I really just didn't think that one out.

 

I rez, get a high ground and try to find that BH again. This time, I don't even have all my cooldowns. I managed to find him without getting spot... I ran towards him, vanished just for the sake of getting even closer. When I opened and unleashed on him, the BH immediately pushed me back but he was already snared and I I had my leap ready for a full blown retaliation. He died and I lived with more than 90% of my HP... during the fight, he used his Shield to no effect and his 20 min cooldown to virtually no effect. Most of the battle, he was backing up and trying to just get that extra space between me and him but that never worked. I was focused and on the ball while he was desperately trying to figure out what to do. His Tracer Missiles were not going off and I was making sure to interrupt them at the very last moment, allowing me to pull in an extra hit... When his final cooldown was out, Master Strike -> Merc Slash -> Riposte -> Saber Throw, his health dropped like a rock to the bare minimum to survive another hit... he tried to knock me back again but one lucky crit from blade storm was just the enough to end him.

 

From that point on, I've done my very best to carefully pick my fights and while I do not always get the highest WZ DPS and etc, I rarely die and I always kill my preys.

 

Pick your fights carefully and yes, be vigilant on your approach.

[Belazor]

What about Pacify? Wouldn't it be an idea to slap that on after Leg Slash (or possibly "instead of" in the case of a Sniper)?

 

I tried to figure out what attacks it applies to via the spell details on Torhead, but from that it sounded like it was only Force attacks that was excluded.

[EssFerret]

When I am fighting an entrenched sniper/gunslinger pacify is the first focus spend I use. Then when they knock you back and root you they are not going to hurt you. It really messes up their advantage.

 

It would be nice if we could talent rebuke to resist knockbacks instead of the worthless talent that reduces its CD when you use riposte.

[Psybin]

The number one way of dealing with it, that no one has mentioned is positioning.

 

More often than not, your target will be near a solid object you can use as an anchor. So simply run up to them, place yourself between them and a solid object and there's no more problem. You would not believe how many people pop their knock back without even looking. It is very easy to make knockbacks completely irrelevent by doing this.

Even in worse case scenarios, say a high ledge in huttball. Not only are there posts you can use, but even if there aren't. Position yourself such that a knock back will push you a little way along the ledge, not off it.

If a knockback has no root, then even if they get it off it should not be a problem at all. Use one of the several tools we have for reclosing the gap. Your target should have a slow on them as a matter of priority.

If it does have a root, then you will need cooldowns to deal with it. Camo, CC break, def cooldowns etc.

 

The only time it should be a massive problem is if the following happens:

You run up to someone on a ledge. They CC you so you cannot use positioning. Move to your side then use a knock back to put you somewhere you cannot easily get back up. And finally you cannot leap as they are in cover.

 

I personally find snipers the worst. I find the "cover" thing highly annoying and OP. If it only worked if they were behind cover then it'd be fair enough. But no, even if they are pointed in a completely different direction and I can see the whole of their back I still cant leap them. It's total BS imo...

And the fact they can keep popping out to shoot you is stupid too. If they shoot me, then I should be able to leap them.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Psybin

[Vodrin]

Hmm, is it balanced to have to rely on 1-2 minute CDs to stand a chance against a certain archetype?

 

Considering ranged classes currently do not have a "minimum range", it's not like they are entirely useless against melee if we get right up in their faces - especially because 1v1 there are (to my knowledge) no true "stunlock" capable classes in the game.

 

If they have so many tools for getting us off them / keeping us off (immobilise where we can't even Force Leap being the biggest PITA), then why are they able to attack in melee range still? =/

 

Currently sentinels are very strong at level 50 when geared. They are one of the very best 1v1 classes, and destroy ranged classes if they can stay on them (and they have all the tools to do so when played well). Remember at level 25 you still don't have all your counters to ranged classes. Ranged get stronger earlier in the leveling curve. In the 40's you will be a beast with good gear (at least once you figure out how to maximize your effectiveness you will).

[Belazor]

Currently sentinels are very strong at level 50 when geared. They are one of the very best 1v1 classes, and destroy ranged classes if they can stay on them (and they have all the tools to do so when played well). Remember at level 25 you still don't have all your counters to ranged classes. Ranged get stronger earlier in the leveling curve. In the 40's you will be a beast with good gear (at least once you figure out how to maximize your effectiveness you will).

I suspected as much.

 

I will also be picking up a Razer Naga hopefully next week, which should help a ton once I get used to it.

 

I do melt incredibly quickly under pressure, so hitting 2 and 3 when attempting to jump around like a clown like everyone does in PvP (I'm assuming it either happens, or people just assume that if a cast finishes when you are behind the guy it won't go off with the "you must be facing your target" error)... yeah that's not going to happen very easily xD

 

EDIT: I mean I personally don't handle pressure very well when I say "I melt under pressure" - just to clarify as I realised it could be taken to mean I expected not to die if I was being focus-fired in PvP

Edited March 7, 2012 by Belazor

[Vodrin]

I suspected as much.

 

I will also be picking up a Razer Naga hopefully next week, which should help a ton once I get used to it.

 

I do melt incredibly quickly under pressure, so hitting 2 and 3 when attempting to jump around like a clown like everyone does in PvP (I'm assuming it either happens, or people just assume that if a cast finishes when you are behind the guy it won't go off with the "you must be facing your target" error)... yeah that's not going to happen very easily xD

 

EDIT: I mean I personally don't handle pressure very well when I say "I melt under pressure" - just to clarify as I realised it could be taken to mean I expected not to die if I was being focus-fired in PvP

 

Just keep practicing. The sentinel is very rewarding when you start to play it well. It's very unforgiving to poor play and poor situational awareness, but rewards good play with some beastly performances.