Guild Summit: Mac users better really want it...

[Toxen]

What's a good alternative to Internet Explorer? Firefox had a mental breakdown a few months ago, Chrome is fast but the easiest to hack. That only leaves Opera and Safari. The windows version of Safari is meh, and few people have even heard of Opera

[Tool_of_Society]

like the mighty awesome Internet Explorer ?

Yeah IE is still holding on to 30% of the market today but in 2009 IE was about 70% of the browser market which is pretty much dominating. I don't use IE because I prefer firefox because of add ons like adblock+ noflast noscript etc. Despite starting from behind big names like netscape and mosiac MS was able to get IE into a dominate position. THe problem is MS hasn't really done much in the way of expanding or noticeable improving IE so it's losing massive amounts of market share. THe point was just that IE was a product that came out behind the competitors and went on to dominate the market for quite a long time.

 

 

Xbox 360 is not a good hardware, not good support by developers not sure why you guys like it.

You're right the 360 doesn't really have that good of hardware inside. THe initial design was rushed and they used bargain bin parts so failure rates were well over 50%. Despite having sub par hardware and a horrendous failure rate the 360 has the largest market share amongst consoles. I didn't say the 360 I said Xbox which was an off the shelf celeron computer with nvidia graphics. While that product used bargain bin components too it wasn't as rushed and is quite reliable. I use a modded regular xbox (extra ram larger hdd etc) as my primary emulation machine along with original controllers that I have modified for each game system.

 

The reason developers support the 360 so much is because MS made it to market first by a pretty good amount which allowed the 360 to get way ahead of the ps3. The cell architecture of the ps3 is more difficult to fully utilize then the off the shelf PC components in the 360. Also as I stated earlier you can program your games for the 360 in the .net framework which allows for easy porting to the wintel market. So overall despite the 360 being a rushed terrible product initially it's now a fairly decent product with a huge amount of developer support and a very large market share. Personally I'm very disappointed as I'd rather see Sony be rewarded for taking their time and making a product that works right at the start.

 

 

 

What's a good alternative to Internet Explorer? Firefox had a mental breakdown a few months ago, Chrome is fast but the easiest to hack. That only leaves Opera and Safari. The windows version of Safari is meh, and few people have even heard of Opera

Uh Chrome is probably the hardest to hack due to it's sandbox nature. The rewards for hacking Chrome has only recently been paid out after a couple years of being offered. I'd still say Chrome is one of the if not most secure browser available for general public usage. As stated earlier I prefer firefox with some add ons which makes it just about as secure as chrome. Opera is probably still a fine browser but I haven't used it in years. Edited March 10, 2012 by Tool_of_Society

[LeonBraun]

To be fair, That Other Company was waaaaaay ahead of the industry (and still is) by always doing cross platform releases for every game they made. Even when, 15 years ago, it made no sense & the entire industry thought Apple was in the process of bankrupting itself.

 

I'm a Bootcamper & I'm not insulted by their response. By dual booting, I'm kinda proving Bioware's point.

 

That being said... Not supporting a Mac client was one reason I quickly dismissed Rift.

 

That MMO clearly was dismissive of the Mac gamers from WoW, clearly ignoring that chunk of the player base -- and all that player bases' friends, family and guild mates. A large chunk to be sure.

 

SW:TOR not ruling out the possibility was one thing that really spoke to me of their desire to really be a player in the MMO market.

[LeonBraun]

Until Mac OS holds a substantial market share of people playing serious games, many developers are going to choose not to allocate resources to develop for it.

 

In WoW, I'm the guild leader of an over 200 member guild.

 

My computer of choice is Mac.

 

By ignoring that one person, so called small demographic, the company also ignores all that person's friends, family, guild mates from other games and any other person that person knows who they would bring over to the game.

 

When I came over to this game I brought over a good chunk of my guild mates from WoW.

 

I have to run boot camp to play this game, but I would prefer not to. I also ignored Rift because they don't support Mac.

 

One of the reasons I gave this game a chance is because I saw that they did not rule out the possibility of a Mac client.

 

This shows me that BioWare is actually serious about being an MMO player, where Rift is clearly not.

[Lasani]

Yeah IE is still holding on to 30% of the market today but in 2009 IE was about 70% of the browser market which is pretty much dominating. I don't use IE because I prefer firefox because of add ons like adblock+ noflast noscript etc. Despite starting from behind big names like netscape and mosiac MS was able to get IE into a dominate position. THe problem is MS hasn't really done much in the way of expanding or noticeable improving IE so it's losing massive amounts of market share. THe point was just that IE was a product that came out behind the competitors and went on to dominate the market for quite a long time.

 

 

You're right the 360 doesn't really have that good of hardware inside. THe initial design was rushed and they used bargain bin parts so failure rates were well over 50%. Despite having sub par hardware and a horrendous failure rate the 360 has the largest market share amongst consoles. I didn't say the 360 I said Xbox which was an off the shelf celeron computer with nvidia graphics. While that product used bargain bin components too it wasn't as rushed and is quite reliable. I use a modded regular xbox (extra ram larger hdd etc) as my primary emulation machine along with original controllers that I have modified for each game system.

 

The reason developers support the 360 so much is because MS made it to market first by a pretty good amount which allowed the 360 to get way ahead of the ps3. The cell architecture of the ps3 is more difficult to fully utilize then the off the shelf PC components in the 360. Also as I stated earlier you can program your games for the 360 in the .net framework which allows for easy porting to the wintel market. So overall despite the 360 being a rushed terrible product initially it's now a fairly decent product with a huge amount of developer support and a very large market share. Personally I'm very disappointed as I'd rather see Sony be rewarded for taking their time and making a product that works right at the start.

 

 

 

Uh Chrome is probably the hardest to hack due to it's sandbox nature. The rewards for hacking Chrome has only recently been paid out after a couple years of being offered. I'd still say Chrome is one of the if not most secure browser available for general public usage. As stated earlier I prefer firefox with some add ons which makes it just about as secure as chrome. Opera is probably still a fine browser but I haven't used it in years.

 

I don't really see holding a high amount of share makes a product better ?

 

Xbox getting more games first and PS3 was released later and getting good titles a bit later is just a bogus marketing brainwashing technique that Microsoft baited xbox users and all of them fell in the trap. Everyone knows than when a new console comes out it has limited titles. even when the Xbox came out the titles were limited ? it is same as checking your pocket and finding no money to buy the new console and saying the grapes are sour.

 

Speaking from developer point of view ? I would say get off your lazy *** and learn how to utilize the full potential of PS3 instead of whining how hard it is to use PS3.

 

They are getting paid for it. They are not doing it for free, an extra time won't hurt , will it ?

 

and Xbox has ATI graphic not nVidia.

 

PS3 has nVidia.

 

 

Xbox has better developer support ? I don't see any good IP on xbox except old school recycling Halo,Gears of Wars and Fable....

 

I don't think 3 games can make a console.

 

Before they had Mass Effect but unfortunately it is available on PS3 also now

 

The only thing that made xbox get high sales chart is 1 person will have to buy 2~5 xbox every year, it usually breaks after several months and most of them are restless without xbox and would prefer to buy a new one instead of waiting a month to get it repaired.

 

Currently Microsoft has ditched Hardcore gamers, and moved into casual gamers market to earn more profit thus higher making it getting higher shares on the market, that doesn't make it a good console ?

 

 

IE is the browser , mostly everyone uses it as soon as they install windows and download other browsers and after that no-one ever uses it. It is not a good browser.

 

Google Chrome or Firefox are better by every way. What if their shares are not strong as IE , that doesn't make a thing better than the other ? It is customer satisfaction that makes a product good , not how much they are earning.

 

That goes to all companies

 

 

=======================

I am going off-topic

 

I want SWTOR support for MAC! /nuff said

Edited March 10, 2012 by Lasani

[fungihoujo]

If you're a gamer with an Apple, you have bootcamp already, where's the problem? Do you need to buy a specialized version of bootcamp just for TOR?

[Kourage]

If it doesn't run right on a PC, what makes you think they can make it run on a Mac?

[Morthis]

Chrome is fast but the easiest to hack.

 

Uh, what? Chrome is generally considered one of the most secure browsers.

 

In WoW, I'm the guild leader of an over 200 member guild.

 

My computer of choice is Mac.

 

This is really rather irrelevant. If you weren't guild leader, someone else would be in your place. I hope you don't think you're so important to the lives of those 200 people that they can't continue gaming without you.

[LeonBraun]

If you're a gamer with an Apple, you have bootcamp already, where's the problem? Do you need to buy a specialized version of bootcamp just for TOR?

 

For me, I bought Boot Camp just to play this game... (At an extra 100 and some dollars) I never bought it for Rift or any other PC only MMO... And many will not buy Boot Camp for this game either.

 

Thing about Mac users is that they buy their Macs to use a Mac... Not to use a PC.

[LeonBraun]

This is really rather irrelevant. If you weren't guild leader, someone else would be in your place. I hope you don't think you're so important to the lives of those 200 people that they can't continue gaming without you.

 

Clearly you've never been a guild leader... Or been in a guild that was an important enough choice to be in.

[Morthis]

Clearly you've never been a guild leader... Or been in a guild that was an important enough choice to be in.

 

On the contrary, I've been in the same guild for my entire time in WoW, which has been since launch. I've spent a huge chunk of my time in this guild as guild leader (although I was not the founder), and even more as raid leader (I still do). I enjoy playing with these people, they enjoy playing with me, they enjoy having me as raid leader. At no point do I believe that if I quit tomorrow, they would all fall apart and be helpless without me, someone else would step up, life would go on. I'm not delusional or arrogant enough to think that my presence in the game is the only reason they stick around.

[Lequin]

For me, I bought Boot Camp just to play this game... (At an extra 100 and some dollars) I never bought it for Rift or any other PC only MMO... And many will not buy Boot Camp for this game either.

 

Thing about Mac users is that they buy their Macs to use a Mac... Not to use a PC.

 

Then use your Mac and don't play this game, and get rid of bootcamp. If you game on a Mac, you're going to have to use bootcamp regardless. It's not a Bioware problem. If you have to complain to anyone about it, go cry to Apple. Make them do a deal with Microsoft to get DirectX over to Mac OS to make it easier for game developers.

 

Why should the burden (cost) fall to Bioware for a niche market that they won't re-coup the investment from?

 

They have enough graphical issues with DirectX in this game and trying to get decent performance across multiple system configurations (it doesn't even take advantage of the newest directx features, stuck in directx 9 mode). Adding in OpenGL and Mac configurations with this engine, yea, not gonna happen soon. (Although with an OpenGL possibility, linux users might be happy)

Edited March 10, 2012 by Lequin

[Tool_of_Society]

I don't really see holding a high amount of share makes a product better ?

You're changing goalposts now..

 

Xbox getting more games first and PS3 was released later and getting good titles a bit later is just a bogus marketing brainwashing technique that Microsoft baited xbox users and all of them fell in the trap. Everyone knows than when a new console comes out it has limited titles. even when the Xbox came out the titles were limited ? it is same as checking your pocket and finding no money to buy the new console and saying the grapes are sour.

There's a lot to be said about getting to the market first even if your product is inferior. History is littered with evidence supporting this theory. I didn't buy an xbox 360 early because I KNEW it was going to take a couple versions of hardware to get a stable reliable product.

 

Speaking from developer point of view ? I would say get off your lazy *** and learn how to utilize the full potential of PS3 instead of whining how hard it is to use PS3.

You crack me up.

 

and Xbox has ATI graphic not nVidia

Incorrect the xbox used a chip derived from the geforce 3 architecture. The xbox 360 uses a custom chip derived from the R520 architecture from ATI because MS basically had an argument with nvidia during the xbox run over chip prices and stuff.

 

 

It's not worth my time responding to the rest of your post as all you're doing is either stating the obvious or making strange assertions like "MS has ditched hardcore gamers" which are completely against reality..

 

 

I've been curious as to how well STWOR is running for those Mac users who are using bootcamp and such. Is bootcamp the only option to get SWTOR running?

 

I saw WINE mentioned earlier but I cannot get any info on it's effectiveness at running SWTOR. I'm way busy right now so I don't have time to try to get SWTOR running in linux or I'd already be testing instead of asking.

 

Just a FYI MS offers some heavy discounts on win7 if you qualify (such as a student). Otherwise I'd just suggest you grab an OEM copy for cheap. If you can access a copy of XP you can save even more money just by buying the win 7 upgrade version and do a clean install.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Tool_of_Society

[Onyx]

For me, I bought Boot Camp just to play this game... (At an extra 100 and some dollars) I never bought it for Rift or any other PC only MMO... And many will not buy Boot Camp for this game either.

 

Thing about Mac users is that they buy their Macs to use a Mac... Not to use a PC.

 

You don't buy Bootcamp. It is simply a utility built into all versions of OSX starting with 10.5.

 

I'm thinking you meant you bought Windows in order to play this game.

[Wehs]

Buying a mac I knew what I got myself into. If anything, blame Windows for making their OS so expensive. Bootcamp works just fine for me, but if anything, people should complain about the money they gotta shell out for Windows OS, while Mac OS only costs $30...

[Saos]

Mac users are concerned about paying $120'ish to run the game?

 

Hopefully you guys never find out how ridiculously overpriced those mac's where in the first place.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Saos

[Toxen]

Mac users are concerned about paying $120'ish to run the game?

 

Hopefully you guys never find out how ridiculously overpriced those mac's where in the first place.

 

Maybe macs aren't that overpriced to begin with. Or even if they were, if you bought an expensive car, you'd still complain about high gas prices wouldn't you?

 

If you can access a copy of XP you can save even more money just by buying the win 7 upgrade version and do a clean install.

 

Actually, you don't even need XP. Just do a double install or a simple registry hack

[Kourage]

When people stop complaining about how bad it runs on a PC, maybe you'll see them start to work on a Mac version. Until then, forget about it. Complain all day long but they are still trying to perfect the PC version.

[Tool_of_Society]

When people stop complaining about how bad it runs on a PC, maybe you'll see them start to work on a Mac version. Until then, forget about it. Complain all day long but they are still trying to perfect the PC version.

Yeah I was thinking that to myself while reading this thread. I'm not sure what's causing the performance problems for the users here and it seems to involved varied hardware. Adding in another OS to troubleshoot would just overload them a bit right now.

 

As for the performance issue I've run SWTOR on over 6 desktops (varying from e4400 OCed to 3ghz with g41 integrated (xp 32) to a phenom II x4 975(win7 64) with a 6870 and 1 laptop fine. THe only performance hit comes in massive PVP and that's to be expected and usually fixed by lowering shadows and such.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Tool_of_Society

[Nightrode]

No company has an obligation to release a product on different platforms or OS's.

[Toxen]

No company has an obligation to release a product on different platforms or OS's.

 

No company has an obligation to do anything customers might want but it's still a good idea for them to do it if there's a demand for it.

[Orisai]

Maybe macs aren't that overpriced to begin with. Or even if they were, if you bought an expensive car, you'd still complain about high gas prices wouldn't you?

 

Expensive cars can do things normal cars can't. Macs on the other side, are normal x86/64 hardware pieces you can find in PCs, just put togheter in a shiny, cool-looking case with an Apple logo.

 

Macs are just overpriced fashion gadgets.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Orisai

[lineschmidt]

Tell your friends to get a real gaming machine and leave the Mac's for multimedia.

Harsh but true

 

You can't get a mac and expect new games to work on it

[Savish]

I am just going to leave this here to clear up so much of the misinformation going around, its seriously making my eyes bleed to read some of these comments.

 

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/questions-for-pwn2own-hacker-charlie-miller/2941?tag=content;siu-container

[Red_Vs_Blue]

Actually, the Mac does everything and more that a PC does.

 

It's all about the available software... if you're a fool and you want to spend $1200 on a computer for gaming when a $200 Xbox will work - get a PC. If you want a computer for what they were intended for PLUS some gaming... get a Mac. Period.

 

There are, literally, million of WoW players who do so from a Mac. The Mac market is huge. And growing.

 

The poster I'm quoting as uneducated and as misinformed as I've seen.

 

My PC leaves every other Mac in the dust and it only cost about 1K. I even went to a mac store and compared some pc's vs. the high end mac. Mac's are not worth the money, unless of course you are a California-class liberal who thinks they will make it big in art but instead live in a NY studio with 5 other failures.