Hate grav/tracer spam? You are the 99%

[Paerin]

Number 4 and 5 are wrong.

 

We've got an AOE pushback ("Jet blast" on the BH side) and a single target pushback ("Stock strike" on the trooper side). It's not enough to truely keep a melee character out of range due to the cooldown on Jet blast and the short distance on Stock strike. It's nowhere near as good as the Sage or Vanguard pulls, but it's something.

 

We've got a DoT removal that will work for non-force DoT's. It's called "Field Aid" on the trooper side.

 

Jet Blast (AOE) and Rocket Punch (Single Target - requires skill points) on the Imperial side. The Jet Blast actually knocks people a good distance away if you spend the point in it. Our cleanse also removes Tech and Physical effects, which is almost everything in this game.

[Soulcheg]

What about dispelling annihilation dots which are physical dmg with your cure ability, what about the talent which makes you immune to interruption for 12 seconds...?

 

What are you doing when you get interrupted ? What about using your 2nd 1.5 spam ability (i.e. power shot) during the time your TracerMissile/GR is interrupted ?

 

You do understand, that talent for immunity to interrupts during Reactive Shied(but it's NOT give immunity from stuns, knockdowns, grapples, knockbacks, pushbacks, etcetcetc) is on the medic (left one) skill tree, tier 3, right?

 

Every medic class have some cure ability, nothing extraordinary here.

 

2nd 1.5s. (2s with all that crappy animation) cast is white damage, not a tech atack. You do understand what that means, right?

 

Two 1.5 - 2s skills, 2 instant (in gunnery), 1 sticky grenade. Full auto still broken, with all that animation.

 

Nothing extraordinary, as i said earlier, just a solid RDPS class. It can be worster, though. If you played WHO, remember Bright Wizards? It can be that way

Edited March 7, 2012 by Soulcheg

[Soulcheg]

Tracer/grave kills faster then intended

 

Intended by who? By you? Don't make me laugh. And biggest DPS is still sorcs/sages and assassins/shadows.

[MartyrLXXVII]

You do understand, that talent for immunity to interrupts during Reactive Shied(but it's NOT give immunity from stuns, knockdowns, grapples, knockbacks, pushbacks, etcetcetc) is on the medic (left one) skill tree, tier 3 right?

 

Every medic class have some cure ability, nothing extraordinary here.

 

2nd 1.5s. (2s with all that crappy animation) cast is white damage, not a tech atack. You do understand what that means, right?

 

Two 1.5 - 2s skills, 2 instant (in gunnery), 1 sticky grenade. Full auto still broken, with all that animation.

 

Nothing extraordinary, as i said earlier, just a solid RDPS class. It can be worst, though. If you played WHO, remember Bright Wizards? It can be that way

 

Ugh, don't mention the BW, aoe damage that did more damage per tick per target then DD abilities did and never got nerfed.

 

But really, don't mention them, remember we have mythic boys working on this game. We don't need them to create that monster again.

[ShadowOfVey]

I honestly don't see why people think arsenal mercs are so good.

 

It isn't like sorcs who have tools to survive in melee range and multiple ways to keep you out.

With mercs you get in melee range and they have their one crappy pushback. Once you negate it they just stand there and die.

 

Yeah they have strong ranged dps, but really so what.

Edited March 7, 2012 by ShadowOfVey

[Mhorlok]

Originally Posted by LatinLegacy

Changes won't happen. Want to know why?

 

1) We don't have any interrupts.

2) We don't have any speed increasing abilities.

3) We don't have any leaping abilities.

4) We don't have a push/pull ability.

4) We don't have a shield of high damage decreasing ability. We have a shield that reduces 25% of incoming damage for 12 seconds but trust me, it doesn't do much & has a very long cooldown.

 

#4 is Horribly wrong...

If you spec it correctly you can have 2 at 50 one single target and one AE

[Rehneu]

Only thing I have seen, it seems that interrupts do not place the ability on the 4 second timer. I have seen far to many players use the ability/ies immediately after the interrupt was used.

 

Again, it is what I have seen. I have heard that the 4 second debuff is not working with other classes/abilities as well. Also to note, this is pre-50 matches.

[Soulcheg]

Only thing I have seen, it seems that interrupts do not place the ability on the 4 second timer. I have seen far to many players use the ability/ies immediately after the interrupt was used.

 

Again, it is what I have seen. I have heard that the 4 second debuff is not working with other classes/abilities as well. Also to note, this is pre-50 matches.

 

It's always working for me, though 4 second it's just 1 instant and 1 Charge Bolts, then GR again

[Soulcheg]

#4 is Horribly wrong...

If you spec it correctly you can have 2 at 50 one single target and one AE

 

Commando? 2 pushbacks? Ok, concussion charge - 1, and 2 is?

[JakeOfFury]

 

I've got full Tier2 PvP gear on my Trooper, and Grav Round does 1524-1574 damage. That's 1016 to 1049 (1032 average) damage per second. Any DPS-specced 50's from other classes willing to post your numbers for comparison?

 

 

I am pretty sure my level 42 marksmanship sniper, equipped with the level 40 panther gear, and a level 42 rifle, does more than 1032 per second.

 

However that is amortized over a bursty rotation, not snipe spam, since my snipe is only at about 1.1k right now.

 

I am currently only at 500 max damage total and the Tier2 sniper rifle does like 450 max *weapon only* so with bonuses from Tier2 gear I expect it to be at least 700, probably closer to 800, and maybe higher. Extrapolate and I think a lvl 50 can spam snipe all by itself for more than 1600 damage per shot.

 

BUT I do get very frustrated when I see half my life disappear due to a series of grav rounds, since they sneak up on you with that stacking. I don't blame it on OP I just blame it on me being stupid and not putting up my shield and/or interrupting them in time.

 

That just makes it more satisfying when I actually kill a commando doing it!

Edited March 7, 2012 by JakeOfFury

[MartyrLXXVII]

I am pretty sure my level 42 marksmanship sniper, equipped with the level 40 panther gear, and a level 42 rifle, does more than 1032 per second.

 

However that is amortized over a bursty rotation, not snipe spam, since my snipe is only at about 1.1k right now.

 

I am currently only at 500 max damage total and the Tier2 sniper rifle does like 450 max *weapon only* so with bonuses from Tier2 gear I expect it to be at least 700, probably closer to 800, and maybe higher. Extrapolate and I think a lvl 50 can spam snipe all by itself for more than 1600 damage per shot.

 

BUT I do get very frustrated when I see half my life disappear due to a series of grav rounds, since they sneak up on you with that stacking. I don't blame it on OP I just blame it on me being stupid and not putting up my shield and/or interrupting them in time.

 

That just makes it more satisfying when I actually kill a commando doing it!

 

thats the thing though, its not the grav round taking half your XP, its the second half of the rotation, Demo round namely.

 

On a side note, I don't understand how grav round or tracer missile sneak up on anyone after the first shot, especially grav round. it doesn't even need to hit you, its just such a stand out animation and sound its like a beacon screaming "come kill me!" for the melees.

[Kailishthegod]

def the games easiest class to play, coming from an ex 50 rank 62 merc healing and dps its not EZ mode or OP its just boring as hell if people want to play like that let them... thats why i rerolled and enjoy playing a skilled melee class where it requires more than 4 or 5 abilities, healing takes alot more skill but being arsenal definately not just get in range and start to pew pew Edited March 8, 2012 by Kailishthegod

[Niconogood]

Neat, someone is getting closer.

 

Yeah he can heal, but if my options are die, because I'm 25% HP, or LoS him... Guess what.

 

And let him go for those heals when his TM/Grav are down. That will burn his resources all the faster and hardly be worth it without the heal spec.

 

Face it, they are not OP, they are a one trick pony and that's why they are boring to some. But they are also effective.

 

Having played at competetive levels in several MMOs I must honestly say that commando is the most boring class Ive ever played. Yes we can put out some decent damage, and have some ok survivability in hybrid/heal, but heck, we got NO utility, no getaway possibilities, no tricks up our sleeves whatsoever, theres simply no FUNFACTOR, and no way to get better, because the class is simple and boring. I would say its the noobclass of the game. Its pretty easy to learn, but impossible to be top, cause you simply dont have the tools.

 

The class is ***** compared to most others in this game when it comes to utility, teamwork and clever play.

[Azrienov]

1. Take the armor reduction away from the grav/ tracer.

2. Increase the cast time to 2 seconds.

3. Slightly lower the damage of grav/tracer, increase high-impact damage and 31 point talent damage.

4. A cooldown on grav/tracer.

5. Increase in energy cost.

 

1. The spec is built entirely around armor penetration. Flat mitigation ignores this fact.

 

2. Increasing the cast time is a bad idea. Mobility @ 50 requires alacrity as it is. If you're busy casting an attack at 2 seconds, it's pretty LOLZ to LoS. So... no.

 

3. A good idea, but the railshot/hiB aren't solely locked into these trees.

 

4. No.

 

5. power consumption is intentionally reduced for this reason. If you notice, the spec carries a "crit with this, reduce heat/generate energy" because the spec itself is designed to be a spam spec. That was the entire point. The class is spam attack class. There are dozens of MMO examples just like it.

[MartyrLXXVII]

Having played at competetive levels in several MMOs I must honestly say that commando is the most boring class Ive ever played. Yes we can put out some decent damage, and have some ok survivability in hybrid/heal, but heck, we got NO utility, no getaway possibilities, no tricks up our sleeves whatsoever, theres simply no FUNFACTOR, and no way to get better, because the class is simple and boring. I would say its the noobclass of the game. Its pretty easy to learn, but impossible to be top, cause you simply dont have the tools.

 

The class is ***** compared to most others in this game when it comes to utility, teamwork and clever play.

 

yeah, I would agree with that.. but "we don't like it." is not a vaild reason to change an entire spec. Especially when there are many people that do seem to like it, otherwise it wouldn't get played too often now would it, and if it didn't get played we wouldn't have threads complaining about the damage.

 

Like I've said numerous times, I think it's a boring spec as well. But that opinion from a limited number of players is not grounds for significant changes to design.

[Azrienov]

#4 is Horribly wrong...

If you spec it correctly you can have 2 at 50 one single target and one AE

 

The knockbacks respond to resolve, and warriors totally circumvent this after charging for a short time.

[BountyHuntertwo]

You do realize that it is Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt, Heatseeker Missiles/Demo Round and Unload/Full Auto with Barrage/Curtain of Fire proc that does the most damage? The only reason we "spam" Tracer/Grav beyond 5 stacks of our armor sunder is to proc Barrage/Curtain of Fire, and to build up Tracer Lock/Charged Barrel to increase the damage of Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt. The thing you are upset about is that Arsenal/Gunnery as a tree is completely and totally dependent upon Tracer/Grav for all of our other abilities to do good damage. Furthermore players who simply spam Tracer/Grav are a favor to you an opponent as that drastically reduces the damage potential of the spec.

[xGETGOTx]

The change in red was my old suggestion before I hit BM and got well geared. On similarly geared targets my HiB is critting for 3.2-3.5k and the demo can get anywhere up to 4k crit on 500+ expertise opponents. While decreasing the grav/tracer would make some people happy it wouldn't be global. I use grav/tracer as a set-up spell and not a kill spell (as it's not meant to spam). Having my instants hit for more would make me god mode even if you cut traver/grav in half.

 

There isn't anything truly wrong with the class. It's meant to be a glass cannon and if they aren't interrupted let them burn.

 

as.k.jfgsafajkl;htg;ahgjklasn

Edited March 8, 2012 by xGETGOTx

[xGETGOTx]

First, I'll start by saying that some of the reporting here is opinion and some is based in fact. Keep that in mind while reading my post and thinking of a well constructed, conversation oriented response.

Feel free to repute any of the facts and clarify anything that I get wrong; people make mistakes and so do I.

 

 

First, the facts:

After reading all of the posts about tracer spamming and seeing the activity in PvP, I decided to create a Grav-round commando. His name is IRtrooper. The point of creating the character was to see if spamming was really all it was or if there was some dynamic game play aspect I was missing. Also, I wanted to gauge the effectiveness of spamming.

 

PVP: I didn't play a game of PvP until 20 (as to not sully my experience). Since, I have played around 25 rounds of pvp. This has lead to some interesting realizations.

 

Rotation: My rotation is Grav-round with a High impact shot thrown in when it's off cooldown. Sometimes, when I want to be energy cautious I use auto-shot to mitigate the energy expenditure from spamming grav-round.

 

Energy Consumption: Rarely is running out of energy an issue. At first I had slight energy issues, and those were normally cured by using the reload ability. After, I added a couple auto-fires into my 2 move rotation and energy is much less of an issue.

 

Mobility: Grav-round is a 1.5 second cast, therefore any time I need to be mobile I just finish my one shot and move out.

 

Damage: The first grav-round against a target hits for between 1000-1200, crits for 1800-2000, and of course the damage increases as the armor debuff is applied.

 

Survivability: Wearing heavy armor and having the 25% damage mitigation ability are helpful in staying alive long enough to spam my way to victory. I'd say something else that helps with surviving is the fact that the animation for Grav-round is barely noticeable. This, I think, brings the spamming commando to a higher level than the spamming BH because it is easy to tell what the BH is doing (taking a painful dump and exploding missiles everywhere).

 

Badges and PVP results: I typically earn between 4 and 6 badges a fight. On the damage and kills side I am top 3 every time, win or lose, and more often than not I'm in 1st place on both.

 

Conclusions: It is a matter of opinion to say that the class is OP or broken, but it is an opinion that feels justified after my somewhat limited experience with the class. Playing requires no skill what-so-ever and yields a result that most dedicated DPS classes would kill for. I have a much higher level Gunslinger and the amount of abilities I have to use are astronomical in comparison, and I would have to be pumping pretty hard to reach the damage of the Trooper.

 

If I could change this class to lower the power level I think there are several options.

 

1. Take the armor reduction away from the grav/ tracer.

2. Increase the cast time to 2 seconds.

3. Slightly lower the damage of grav/tracer, increase high-impact damage and 31 point talent damage.

4. A cooldown on grav/tracer.

5. Increase in energy cost.

 

After all this "blah blah" i havent seen u bring up interupt or LOS...With LOS/interupt being what they are, no1 should ever lose a fights with a merc/commando. If you do, you should not play this game, go back to mario brothers.

[angryca]

After all this "blah blah" i havent seen u bring up interupt or LOS...With LOS/interupt being what they are, no1 should ever lose a fights with a merc/commando. If you do, you should not play this game, go back to mario brothers.

 

Thanks what I told my budy who *****ed about serra angel like a tool 18 years ago. I don't know what part of "counterspell it or play sword to plowshares!" he didn't understand.

[DarthRaika]

if your team doesn't completely suck then you should top the dps charts as a DD merc but i wouldn't say the class is op. some dps classes are more bursty and some classes have more utility.

 

Even if your team sucks as long as 2-3 of them stay near eachother you should easily top the dps charts if you don't suck but the dps chart is just a chart it doesn't mean ****. Some of the other classes played equally well won't beat you on the chart (if you play well) but they may help the team much more in other ways not shown on the chart.

 

I mean just for ***** and giggles (and to see how many mvp votes i could get while not helping my team at all) when i wasn't even full cent gear i made a funny sorc spec where i just spread dots on everyone and aoe'd as much as possible in the middle of huttball and broke 500k easy. However, when I get 300k dmg and extricate several scores I am much much much more helpful to my team. Same with voidstar if i go to the less guarded door and kill that guy or alderan if i solo or duo hold a gun the whole match.

 

Merc DD isn't op it is just the ranged cannon class. The only thing I don't like about it is the fact that it can take more dmg than a glass cannon should. I'd be fine to slightly up the dmg but nerf their hp and/or defense.

 

The only merc that is OP is the healing merc and it may not be OP per say it just can take much more of a beating than other healing specs so either buff the other specs or nerf it idc.

[Daecollo]

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/4585/historyofgravround.jpg

[Warrivv]

Grav Round/Tracer Missile does a good amount of damage if left alone, yes. However, being interrupted leaves you kind of screwed in general. I'm hoping they tweak it in a way that reduces the dependency on it, removing the simplicity and averaging out their damage potential through other skills. This way, they can remove the easymode of it and still achieve somewhat similar dps if done in the right rotation.

[Morticoccus]

Everyone complains about ranged, the people that don't complain about ranged tell the people that do that interrupt is the way to go.

 

I say "but what about the other guys?"

 

And with this I mean, the guys who are ALSO spamming tracer missiles or force lightning at you, because I only die to spam when I get focused by two guys or more, and I'm pretty sure everyone else that complains does too.

 

I mean, the only way a BH merc can missile spam me to death is IF he first hits me with stun dart to get the casts off and IF my cleanse is on CD.

Otherwise he is ****ed.

 

Unless he's got a buddy.

[Fouroneoh]

Grav/Tracer spamming is more annoying than it is effective. Yes, I find my self saying stupid tracer missle spammers, though it never kills me. If you die to a BH/COM from pure tracer/grav you need to rethink your strategy some.

 

Annoying? Yes, nerf worthy? No