Hate grav/tracer spam? You are the 99%

[MartyrLXXVII]

If it's boring to play the class and everyone hates playing against them because of all the spam, it doesn't matter if they're balanced or not (still open to debate).

 

They need to be changed.

 

But not everyone thinks one or the other, certainly not both. So it doesn't need to be changed.

 

Personally I find it a boring spec, but some people like it. Just be you and I think its boring bioware needs to change what they enjoy?

 

That reason is complete and utter failure my friend.

[eavn]

But not everyone thinks one or the other, certainly not both. So it doesn't need to be changed.

 

Personally I find it a boring spec, but some people like it. Just be you and I think its boring bioware needs to change what they enjoy?

 

That reason is complete and utter failure my friend.

 

 

Honestly, I find commandos a blast to play, in pve they are a tonne of fun, and pvp especially (if you have a good team)

 

So in the end, no merc/commandos do not need a nerf, if people find them boring then reroll or switch to the more mobile spec that we possess, but all this crying about us is simply people being silly

[PlagaNerezza]

Theres many ways to fix the most faceroll class in game Merc/Commandos.

One I can think of will be lowering tracer's damage and/or raising the casting cost and buff the other skills where when a proper rotation is preformed the overall dps is remain the same with other skills that combos after tracer cost lowered as well.

 

Currently any noob knows garv/tracer is completely faceroll to the max thats unmatched by any other classes. This change will emphasize the "rotation" aspect within Merc so they are more inline to other classes.

 

Fix it. Make them use cover.

 

The fix for every op class is force them to use the cover mechanic.

 

I'd like to reroll my smuggler name to stuttering john.

 

If they took cover out of the smuggler I'd actually think you'd be hearing how OP our class is.

[MartyrLXXVII]

What class do you play? Plus, I'm not sure what you're saying after the period of ellipsis.

 

 

I'm not saying that fighting a grav/tracer spammer 1v1 is super hard and they need a super nerf. I am saying that just like any ranged damage class they can stay on the outskirts and absolutely plow down anyone who isn't paying attention to them. In their case, however, they seem to be more effective at that job and they do it with very few abilities.

 

Everyone who has posted that they have a surefire way to kill spammers with interrupts and stuns and that you have to be a bad player to not kill them 1 on 1 is probably right. But this goes for every class in the game.

 

Is there a gunslinger bothering you? interrupt his aimed shot and when he comes back around stun him. When he sets up his shield move behind some cover and LoS him.

 

Is there a sage bothering you? Interrupt his heals and when he starts to heal again stun him. When he throws rocks LoS him and wait for him to come get you.

 

Is there a Sentinel bothering you? Knock him back, root him, stun him etc. Force leap? LoS, anyone?

 

You've got a sure fire way to deal with everything forever! You're welcome, internet.

 

Sorry using my phone for these posts so they are littered with typos.

 

My point is they are more limited then other classes. That spec does massive damage, yes, but at what cost. You use interrupting ever class as an example. Ok put it to the test.

 

I run a powertech shieldtech hybrid, iron fist. What are you going to do to me that completely locks me out of ~75% of my damage? Not a dps class, though. Ok what are you going to interrupt on a marauder that locks him out of ~75% of his damage.

 

Now that's a high number, but they can't get TM/Grav stacks it makes most everything else they have worthless. That's why I don't care if one chases me. Simply following me around means they are needing their own damage to hell simply by kiting.

 

But because they do so much damage they aren't UP, but they aren't OP because they have serious weaknesses. Like I said to the other guy, it comes down to a matter of fun.

 

I find the spec boring as hell, but that is not grounds for asking to have it changed, some people like it after all.

 

Edit: BTW I do have a commando, was my original toon. But I went pyro and didn't like that much either. Wished I rolled a vanguard instead, to I made my powertech and its much more fun to me.

Edited March 5, 2012 by MartyrLXXVII

[PlagaNerezza]

It saddens me to see the lack on intelligence on this thread, however I will add in my thoughts:)

 

To compensate for the misunderstanding of the commando/merc haters on this thread I will speak very plainly.

 

Use interrupts and line of sight us.

 

We do very nice damage that is true, but for crying out loud WE ARE STATIONARY TO DO DECENT DPS

 

that means *gasp* you can easily kill us if you're a decent pvp'er; sadly after reading some of the posts, I have to come to realize that you simply can't think far enough to try to interrupt us or line of sight us, therefore you make this pointless thread asking for us to be nerfed because you're too poor a player to figure out how to kill us.

 

so please, learn to pvp or don't complain that we kill you because you don't know what to do.

 

You are not stationary. You have way more mobility and your big dmg special doesn't not have nearly the hey break los that my snipe/aimed shot has. You should have to use cover and have your big cast light up your opponents screen like a christmas tree.

[Astarica]

Honestly, I find commandos a blast to play, in pve they are a tonne of fun, and pvp especially (if you have a good team)

 

So in the end, no merc/commandos do not need a nerf, if people find them boring then reroll or switch to the more mobile spec that we possess, but all this crying about us is simply people being silly

 

Commandoes are boring in the same sense Darkness Assassins are boring. Both have a clearly dominating strategy, as in executing this strategy ensures there is no counter strategy that puts your strat in a bad place. You can walk in a fight against either class and know exactly what they will do and at best you'll have a 50/50 shot at beating them. Further since both class have very simple rotations, it takes very little skill to reach a point where you're no worse than 50/50 against other classes, and of course if the enemy screw up or is below the skillcap for his class (note that he can have same or higher skill than you), you'll have a considerable edge. It doesn't reward skill because skill just means knowing to switch to Power Shot or heals when Tracers get interrupted and most people can manage that.

 

Note that most classes are not like this. Take the one class that's actually been nerfed severely (Operative). One would assume that means they're more overpowered than any other class, but in this case the Operative depends on stealth so you can spam more AE/detection abilities to try to catch them. You can also practice using stun breaker immediately and then Force Shroud to counter the initial burst for SI archtypes. Yes they're still overpowered but if you have a plan, you can see that you can do better against them even if you're still losing more than 50% overall. If you know what the other guy is planning, there's usually something you can do to put yourself in an advantageous situation, and that's probably what most people call 'skill'. Mercs don't have that. Everyone knows exactly what they're going to do and there's no significant advantage you can gain unless you're playing against very bad players. You might break even but it sure doesn't feel rewarding when you know everything about your class and the other guy is just pushing 2 buttons and you end up with a draw. You'd like to think the guy only pushing 2 buttons shouldn't win 50% of the time, but they do.

[Badbal]

Yes you can sometimes keep the merc busy chasing someone long enough to neutralize him, so is your way to deal with a class to just keep on running away?

 

Love it

 

Running away is their hard counter, so easy

 

I see alot of talk in this thread about pure Arsenal/Gunnery mercs/commandos.

I rarely ever see a pure Arsenal/Gunnery merc in pvp.

What about the Heal/Tracer hybrids?

[Paerin]

I've read a lot of you saying "just los or interrupt" as if that is a valid argument. There isn't a ranged class that can't be LoS, and I think LoS is a better tactic against Gunslingers/snipers. If you start to move away there is no reason why a commando can't just stop and follow you.

 

/wrists

[ShadowOfVey]

The only place I feel they are exceptionally dangerous are controlling catwalks in huttball. I have no problem with them being good at that though.

 

If one is being particularly annoying, put a marker on them so they can be force pulled/grappled sometimes when they've got a terrain advantage. Once they're put in melee range if people want to kill them there isn't really much they can do about it other than stall a bit.

 

If they're putting out big numbers it's because people are letting them stand around and free cast. All you need to do is decide "I'm not going to let them do that". If you do, they'll be spending a lot of time looking at the force field in the respawn area.

Edited March 5, 2012 by ShadowOfVey

[Tatermitts]

It saddens me to see the lack on intelligence on this thread, however I will add in my thoughts:)

 

To compensate for the misunderstanding of the commando/merc haters on this thread I will speak very plainly.

 

Use interrupts and line of sight us.

 

We do very nice damage that is true, but for crying out loud WE ARE STATIONARY TO DO DECENT DPS

 

that means *gasp* you can easily kill us if you're a decent pvp'er; sadly after reading some of the posts, I have to come to realize that you simply can't think far enough to try to interrupt us or line of sight us, therefore you make this pointless thread asking for us to be nerfed because you're too poor a player to figure out how to kill us.

 

so please, learn to pvp or don't complain that we kill you because you don't know what to do.

 

 

Just to be clear- I made this thread to outline my experience with playing a grav-spammer and share my thoughts based on that experience. I said, before I wrote anything else, that part of my post was opinion and I was just interested in having a conversation about the class and how it compares to other DPS classes.

 

I personally don't have a problem killing any one certain class. I am, however, very interested in pvping against a team that isn't 1/2 powertechs/commandos and 1/2 sages/sorc.

[MartyrLXXVII]

Just to be clear- I made this thread to outline my experience with playing a grav-spammer and share my thoughts based on that experience. I said, before I wrote anything else, that part of my post was opinion and I was just interested in having a conversation about the class and how it compares to other DPS classes.

 

I personally don't have a problem killing any one certain class. I am, however, very interested in pvping against a team that isn't 1/2 powertechs/commandos and 1/2 sages/sorc.

 

And you also specifically stated what you called facts, which were based on limited experience at low level with all skills.

 

So what were those facts based on... Hell what were the opinions based on?

[lijahrobinson]

Commandoes are boring in the same sense Darkness Assassins are boring. Both have a clearly dominating strategy, as in executing this strategy ensures there is no counter strategy that puts your strat in a bad place. You can walk in a fight against either class and know exactly what they will do and at best you'll have a 50/50 shot at beating them. Further since both class have very simple rotations, it takes very little skill to reach a point where you're no worse than 50/50 against other classes, and of course if the enemy screw up or is below the skillcap for his class (note that he can have same or higher skill than you), you'll have a considerable edge. It doesn't reward skill because skill just means knowing to switch to Power Shot or heals when Tracers get interrupted and most people can manage that.

 

Note that most classes are not like this. Take the one class that's actually been nerfed severely (Operative). One would assume that means they're more overpowered than any other class, but in this case the Operative depends on stealth so you can spam more AE/detection abilities to try to catch them. You can also practice using stun breaker immediately and then Force Shroud to counter the initial burst for SI archtypes. Yes they're still overpowered but if you have a plan, you can see that you can do better against them even if you're still losing more than 50% overall. If you know what the other guy is planning, there's usually something you can do to put yourself in an advantageous situation, and that's probably what most people call 'skill'. Mercs don't have that. Everyone knows exactly what they're going to do and there's no significant advantage you can gain unless you're playing against very bad players. You might break even but it sure doesn't feel rewarding when you know everything about your class and the other guy is just pushing 2 buttons and you end up with a draw. You'd like to think the guy only pushing 2 buttons shouldn't win 50% of the time, but they do.

 

As i said in an earlier thread, i am a Pyrotech Mercenary and Arsenal mercenaries are pretty much an auto win. I don't see how can as bad as 50/50 vs them in a 1vs1 situation. They are so bad in 1vs1. They have a game plan, true but it is easy to counter. If you run headfirst at them then yeah, you might bet burned down. Remember what they do, they stay outside of fights and rain down damage. So what does that mean. If they aren't focusing you, then go ahead and take them down. They fall pretty quick. The key is to hit them with constant pressure and don't run headlong into them. If i get my Incend, thermal, rail shot off, before they notice me, they seldom end up living through the encounter.

 

Line of sight is a valid strategy if they are freecasting on you. They will quickly change tragets when they cant see you and you are free to heal up quickly and go take them out.

Edited March 5, 2012 by lijahrobinson

[Gankdalf_]

Well imo L2P and cry more

[eavn]

You are not stationary. You have way more mobility and your big dmg special doesn't not have nearly the hey break los that my snipe/aimed shot has. You should have to use cover and have your big cast light up your opponents screen like a christmas tree.

 

yes, we are very, very stationary, if we have to constantly move around, then it drops our dps very, very significantly.

 

Honestly, the issue is not whether or not we are op or up, but about people disliking that we need to be countered in a very specific way.

 

As for us being boring, again that's opinion.

[Tatermitts]

And you also specifically stated what you called facts, which were based on limited experience at low level with all skills.

 

So what were those facts based on... Hell what were the opinions based on?

 

The facts are based on playing the class. Lower level? yes, but it's still worth looking at.

 

The opinions are based on my opinions. I clearly stated where my opinion was placed.

 

 

I don't quite get you. Sometimes you post and it looks like a valid conversation and sometimes you post and it looks like accusatory tom-foolery. Please pick one so I can choose whether to like you or not.

[maradigamer]

If they mess with tracer missile, they'll do one of two things. Completely break the class so that arsenal mercs will end up spamming their one no cost attack constantly trying to manage heat that way, or create a much more mobile, dangerous commando by making it actually efficient to use the other attacks available to the tree. I'm hoping for the latter. Arsenal merc is actually in a lot of ways more fun before you get tracer missile. Edited March 5, 2012 by maradigamer

[Tenryou]

Just to be clear- I made this thread to outline my experience with playing a grav-spammer and share my thoughts based on that experience. I said, before I wrote anything else, that part of my post was opinion and I was just interested in having a conversation about the class and how it compares to other DPS classes.

 

I personally don't have a problem killing any one certain class. I am, however, very interested in pvping against a team that isn't 1/2 powertechs/commandos and 1/2 sages/sorc.

 

They're easier to play compared to a Sentinel, Vanguard or Shadow. Because of this, a Sentinel has more "room to grow" so to speak. If well played, a Sent/Marauder is the scariest thing on the battlefield. In contrast, a well played Commando is ironically, not going to turret and play Assault instead lol. Or reroll a vanguard and play that well. Gunnery is either a powerhouse or a sitting duck, depending on your opponent's reaction to it. Without Grav round, the spec is essentially castrated.

 

People will always choose the path of least resistance. If a team of 8 sorcs/sages nets them a 90% win in huttball and a 70% win on Voidstar and Alderaan, they'll roll with it. Not to say that a well balanced team won't do as well, but it takes more coordination organizing a melee/ranged/heals combo than 8x forced lightning on focus target. More coordination than a PUG WZ group is willing to attempt.

[lijahrobinson]

If they mess with tracer missile, they'll do one of two things. Completely break the class so that arsenal mercs will end up spamming their one no cost attack constantly trying to manage heat that way, or create a much more mobile, dangerous commando by making it actually efficient to use the other attacks available to the tree. I'm hoping for the latter. Arsenal merc is actually in a lot of ways more fun before you get tracer missile.

 

They already have an option number 2; its a pyrotech

[thanealpha]

If you die to tracer missile spam, you are BAD.

 

Learn to CC, pop defensive CD, or simply walk out of range.

 

Problem solved.

 

I disagree. Melee dps are often at a pretty significant disadvantage when hit by tracer spam. Even if you DO move out of range or pop a CD the amount of damaged suffered pretty quickly, can be pretty debilitating.

 

Force leap is a great tool to engage, but when it's down something like tracer spam can be a quick ticket to the rez circle.

[Tatermitts]

Well imo L2P and cry more

 

You are a winner! Please continue to add your worthwhile intellectual contribution to this conversation.

 

 

Also... Gankdalf?

[thanealpha]

They're easier to play compared to a Sentinel, Vanguard or Shadow. Because of this, a Sentinel has more "room to grow" so to speak. If well played, a Sent/Marauder is the scariest thing on the battlefield. .

 

I disagree. Sent/Marauder SHOULD be the scariest thing on the battlefield if well played...

 

The issue is that if a well played Sent is against a well played (insert other class here) the advantage still goes to several other classes first.

 

Well played sents can FACEROLL underplayed anything. But if ability is equal there are several classes/builds that have some pretty overwhelming advantages.

[-Fal-]

Merc raining tracer missiles on you, you say?

Let me introduce this fantastic new product called corners, just walk around one and BAM no more tracer missile. Feel free to repeat as necessary.

[maradigamer]

They already have an option number 2; its a pyrotech

 

Tried it. At least at lower levels, still had serious energy issues. Powertech pyro seemed better.

[Astarica]

Those who say you autowin against Mercs or whatever popular class, this simply defies the logic of how a class becomes popular. If Mercs are really an autolose class like some of the unpopular classes (usually some variant of IA) , people would stop playing them. It's not hard to figure out that you're constantly auto losing against comparable oppositon. The majority isn't necessarily very smart but they definitely know the difference between autowin and autolose matchups. It's inconceiveable that a hugely popular class would have autolose matchups because then the class would no longer be popular after realizing they consistently get owned by some other class. A class with a true autolose matchup is simply not played.

 

Even Sorcs, who potentially have some autolose matchups on flat terrain, are certainly not autolose on Huttball. You, as a player, doesn't have access to some super secret that apparently nobody else has ever figured out. If there's a class that's truly the Merc/Sorc killer, that class would become popular very quickly since having an autowin matchup against what can easily be half of the guys you play against is a rather big deal, even if that class is completely useless for anything else.

[MartyrLXXVII]

The facts are based on playing the class. Lower level? yes, but it's still worth looking at.

 

The opinions are based on my opinions. I clearly stated where my opinion was placed.

 

 

I don't quite get you. Sometimes you post and it looks like a valid conversation and sometimes you post and it looks like accusatory tom-foolery. Please pick one so I can choose whether to like you or not.

 

Because I don't like people that make baseless claims, especially about balance.

 

And I'm sorry, 25 matches with a -class- and no where near the full spec itself is baseless. It seems honestly like you opinion is based purely on forum posts and you just got minimal experience to try to add some credibility.

 

If the main reason to want the spec changed is because its a.one trick pony, not OP or UP. Then its not worth even talking about because it doesn't matter if you like it or not. It doesn't matter that I don't like it, it is balanced and so there is no call to mess with that balance.

 

If you have some balanced related problem that isn't countered by what's been said time after time then let's hear it.