Is Revan overrated?

[Rayla_Felana]

Agreed but after the events of KotoR in KotoR2 , not taking away from that great feat either. Surely respectable and noteworthy .

 

She was nowhere in the KoToR events but lore says before and after she did have alot of story, after all she was respected by both Revan and Malek enough to get honored with General . Not ever Jedi that followed them got that title unlike the happenings of the movies .

 

Agreed.

 

In that time, Malak was basically hiding behind his fleet, because he knew the senior members of the order could still defeat him one-on-one or more, Revan was simply the only way they could find where Malak's base was.

[BrandonSM]

Hold on made a mistake with my quoting. ----

 

 

Even the book said he had the clone troopers uppon the entrance, it comes off as they are focusing more on what Anakin was doing than them , possibly because the whole thing was about Anakin than anything else !

 

And Revan had an army of Jedi. But Anakin was the one to kill Cin Drallig and the 11 other masters. And he slaughtered nameless Jedi.

 

You play the game you get that as the send someone off that they were not sure if he could do anything at all . Revan had to rediscover himself after all . Alot of scenes talk about Malek as a great threat ,

 

That still doesn't state its canon he couldn't be beat by anyother Jedi.

 

I don't believe they were weak but I believe they didn't act and there for lost to not seeing far into it.

 

When I said it was canon, I meant GL Stated. The Jedi Order of the Prequels were the Golden Age of the Jedi and that was the JO in their prime.

 

Not everything you say is Canon , I could respect you in quoting it if it wasn't always filled with opinions like your "what if" threads that are completely none canon . Not everything I say is gonna be right because memory will change overtime , you will never be able to remember everything , even preachers need to constantly reread the same book over and over to be sure and quote correctly .

 

I was referring to what you originally said to me.

 

How is not agreeing and saying someone is wrong a insult , I am sorry you are your 2 friends think your always right but you are not and Canon or not , nothing backs up a anything that was replied to last 8 pages. Refusing to not be wrong does not make you right . sorry !

Edited March 7, 2012 by BrandonSM

[TeH-DeVa]

Revan is one of the best jedi in history for multiple reasons:

 

1. Revan saved the galaxy before the games even started. The mandalorians were at war with the republic...and winning. The jedi refused to help and the galaxy was going to be conquered. He defeated them and as KOTOR explains is the SOLE reason that war was won. He did it because he was a complete tactical genius unlike any other. Not only that but was unrivaled on the battlefield. If you think otherwise you should keep in mind that TRUE mandalorians can kill jedi council members with their bare hands and are basically the super sayians of the star wars universe. So to be able to beat an entire army of them takes physical and mental strength beyond anything else.

 

2. Revan saw the corruption in the republic and jedi when fighting the mandalorians and that was what started his path to the darkside...it was not just a want for power but seeing the power before him and knowing the jedi were arrogant and weak and would refuse to help the galaxy if it needed them. So he became a sith.

 

3. Revan was a master in the force - any info can tell you that.

 

4. Revan created the rule of two. He realized an army of sith would never succeed and created the rule of two to fix the problem and bring the sith to glory. If you think bane created it you are wrong. Bane learned of the rule of two from darth revans holocron hidden on the rakata planet and bane merely implemented it. The entire idea was revans.

 

5. For those of you thinking genocide is what revan was doing with killing the entire sith population then you don't know the lore of this game. He was going to kill the entire sith pureblood race. That means the empires species. These are not civilians. These are not innocents. There are no innocent sith pureblood. Every single one of them left the galaxy and hid and built and planned to conquor the republic. To kill every man woman and child of the republic. None of them want peace and none of them want to be friendly. Every single one of them wants blood.

 

The empire in this game and the empire from the movies are two different things. The empire in the movies was full of galactic citizens who thought the empire was in the right because they had never been taught differant. Most of them were kind nice people who just wanted to make the place better for their family. Even the foot soldiers were just a military there defending their home. They saw the republic as these horrible people who were trying to destroy their way of life. Luke skywalker in episode 4 when he mentioned going to the academy was meaning he wanted to go join the empire. He believed they were good before they killed obi wan and his aunt/uncle.

 

The empire in this game want to kill everything. They are a single species. The sith. I don't mean the force sensitive naming for dark side jedi. The SPECIES sith! They want nothing in life but to kill the jedi and republic. Revan killing every single one of them would not be genocide. It is the ONLY way to destroy this empire.

 

*HERP DERP OBVIOUS SPOILER*

 

THE JEDI ARE GOING TO EXTERMINATE EVERY SINGLE EMPIRE CITIZEN AND KILL THEM ALL BEFORE THIS GAME ENDS BECAUSE THIS SPECIES IS WIPED OUT BY THE REPUBLIC BEFORE BANES TIME 500 YEARS BEFORE 4 BECAUSE ITS NOT GENOCIDE THEY ARE TRYING TO KILL THEM

 

----

 

TLDR version=Revan is amazing...he's ba...hes smart...powerful...and the sith empire is evil and it wouldn't be genocide

[TeH-DeVa]

 

When I said it was canon, I meant GL Stated. The Jedi Order of the Prequels were the Golden Age of the Jedi and that was the JO in their prime.

 

 

 

 

The jedi of the prequels were a corrupt jedi who believed themselves to be better than any other. They found themselves invincible and would never be challenged. They also felt that even if they were challenged they would never have to fear them.

 

That is something lucas has stated also...it was the entire point of how easily palpatine was able to take control.

 

"I don't believe the sith could have returned without us knowing" - Mace windu

 

The sith never were gone...the jedi just were content with their power and never felt the need to actually investigate thoroughly

[TeH-DeVa]

Agreed.

 

In that time, Malak was basically hiding behind his fleet, because he knew the senior members of the order could still defeat him one-on-one or more, Revan was simply the only way they could find where Malak's base was.

 

No thats because malak was weak. Beyond weak. But revan was still stronger than any other jedi of the time. The mandalorian wars proved that.

[Wolfninjajedi]

The jedi of the prequels were a corrupt jedi who believed themselves to be better than any other. They found themselves invincible and would never be challenged. They also felt that even if they were challenged they would never have to fear them.

 

That is something lucas has stated also...it was the entire point of how easily palpatine was able to take control.

 

"I don't believe the sith could have returned without us knowing" - Mace windu

 

The sith never were gone...the jedi just were content with their power and never felt the need to actually investigate thoroughly

 

Ya but they didn't have any evidence to go on, so doing an investigation would be doing it blind without any evidence to go off of. Exactly where has it been shown that the jedi were corrupt, and they viewed themselves better then anyone else?

[Airmo]

Just to pop in here, She did defeat the immortal Darth Sion, after wrecking the Trayus Academy, and Sion is basically Malak, but immortal.

 

She defeated Sion by breaking his will right? She basically made him give up, and killing himself by letting go basically, granted she bested him in battle again and again until then but it would have just kept going if not for him giving up right? Not taking away from her victory or anything.

[Rayla_Felana]

Revan is one of the best jedi in history for multiple reasons:

 

1. Revan saved the galaxy before the games even started. The mandalorians were at war with the republic...and winning. The jedi refused to help and the galaxy was going to be conquered. He defeated them and as KOTOR explains is the SOLE reason that war was won. He did it because he was a complete tactical genius unlike any other. Not only that but was unrivaled on the battlefield. If you think otherwise you should keep in mind that TRUE mandalorians can kill jedi council members with their bare hands and are basically the super sayians of the star wars universe. So to be able to beat an entire army of them takes physical and mental strength beyond anything else.

 

2. Revan saw the corruption in the republic and jedi when fighting the mandalorians and that was what started his path to the darkside...it was not just a want for power but seeing the power before him and knowing the jedi were arrogant and weak and would refuse to help the galaxy if it needed them. So he became a sith.

 

3. Revan was a master in the force - any info can tell you that.

 

4. Revan created the rule of two. He realized an army of sith would never succeed and created the rule of two to fix the problem and bring the sith to glory. If you think bane created it you are wrong. Bane learned of the rule of two from darth revans holocron hidden on the rakata planet and bane merely implemented it. The entire idea was revans.

 

5. For those of you thinking genocide is what revan was doing with killing the entire sith population then you don't know the lore of this game. He was going to kill the entire sith pureblood race. That means the empires species. These are not civilians. These are not innocents. There are no innocent sith pureblood. Every single one of them left the galaxy and hid and built and planned to conquor the republic. To kill every man woman and child of the republic. None of them want peace and none of them want to be friendly. Every single one of them wants blood.

 

The empire in this game and the empire from the movies are two different things. The empire in the movies was full of galactic citizens who thought the empire was in the right because they had never been taught differant. Most of them were kind nice people who just wanted to make the place better for their family. Even the foot soldiers were just a military there defending their home. They saw the republic as these horrible people who were trying to destroy their way of life. Luke skywalker in episode 4 when he mentioned going to the academy was meaning he wanted to go join the empire. He believed they were good before they killed obi wan and his aunt/uncle.

 

The empire in this game want to kill everything. They are a single species. The sith. I don't mean the force sensitive naming for dark side jedi. The SPECIES sith! They want nothing in life but to kill the jedi and republic. Revan killing every single one of them would not be genocide. It is the ONLY way to destroy this empire.

 

*HERP DERP OBVIOUS SPOILER*

 

THE JEDI ARE GOING TO EXTERMINATE EVERY SINGLE EMPIRE CITIZEN AND KILL THEM ALL BEFORE THIS GAME ENDS BECAUSE THIS SPECIES IS WIPED OUT BY THE REPUBLIC BEFORE BANES TIME 500 YEARS BEFORE 4 BECAUSE ITS NOT GENOCIDE THEY ARE TRYING TO KILL THEM

 

----

 

TLDR version=Revan is amazing...he's ba...hes smart...powerful...and the sith empire is evil and it wouldn't be genocide

 

For all the Revan fans that were saying he's not overrated, I present you this quote, good day.

[Wolfninjajedi]

She defeated Sion by breaking his will right? She basically made him give up, and killing himself by letting go basically, granted she bested him in battle again and again until then but it would have just kept going if not for him giving up right? Not taking away from her victory or anything.

 

Ya she used his love for her against him.

[Rayla_Felana]

She defeated Sion by breaking his will right? She basically made him give up, and killing himself by letting go basically, granted she bested him in battle again and again until then but it would have just kept going if not for him giving up right? Not taking away from her victory or anything.

 

Yes, he had the power of Malachor V fuelling him as well, He still could not defeat her.

[Rayla_Felana]

No thats because malak was weak. Beyond weak. But revan was still stronger than any other jedi of the time. The mandalorian wars proved that.

 

Malak was nothing like weak, how was Revan stronger than any other Jedi of the time? got a substantive quote for that? or is it merely your opinion, also he did not single-handedly defeat the Mandalorians, both Alek and Surik were leaders that won him many vital battles, Surik more than anyone, without her force bonding technique and her great power of persuasion and inspiring loyalty, Dxun could not have been taken by anybody.

 

She also masterminded the entire battle of Malachor V.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[mefit]

Hold on made a mistake with my quoting. ----

 

 

 

 

And Revan had an army of Jedi. But Anakin was the one to kill Cin Drallig and the 11 other masters. And he slaughtered nameless Jedi.

 

Books do not say the Troopers were not there and again suprise throws off everyone like it or not but yea Anakin Canon

 

That still doesn't state its canon he couldn't be beat by anyother Jedi.

Canon Revan killed Malek and no other Jedi tried , What ifs are a bs debate when you keep refering to Canon ............just saying

 

 

When I said it was canon, I meant GL Stated. The Jedi Order of the Prequels were the Golden Age of the Jedi and that was the JO in their prime.

 

Jedi in the Movies were laxed and unmet by any threat for ages , not saying they were weaker but they did not know how to find the Dark lord that was eating at their own table and walking right beside them . Granted Palpitine was the most powerful sith of all time but seriously , he had really no challenges . Well Yoda but we see how that ended up !

 

I was referring to what you originally said to me.

 

What ifs are not good in a post when you keep refering to Canon . Canon wise Revan was great because writers and lucas made him so. He was no God but he was a great General and warrior who is credited saving the republic and then under the influance of the Emperor turned to destroy it . Most of the Jedi were killed because of Revan and largly had to do with being suprised .

Canon > opinions

If we go by Canon alone , no matter how you guys try to derail him .........he was great !

Not the best in history

Not the most powerful in history

But in his time he was a EPIC character and was probably the second most powerful of his "LIFETIME" ...not era as a era is more than alifetime .

[Airmo]

Yes, he had the power of Malachor V fuelling him as well, He still could not defeat her.

 

But what was to stop him from trying again and again until she was worn out? She had to break his will to fight or he would have kept going right? It just seemed to me in Kotor 2 that all the sith lords Meetra fought had some weakness to them for her, and only her apparently, to exploit. Same thing with the darth awesome mask, she was the one thing he couldn't feed on and there was Visas, Traya..well, all she kinda had were three floating lightsabers.. This is my opinion by the way.

[Bohmfalk]

The jedi of the prequels were a corrupt jedi who believed themselves to be better than any other. They found themselves invincible and would never be challenged. They also felt that even if they were challenged they would never have to fear them.

 

That is something lucas has stated also...it was the entire point of how easily palpatine was able to take control.

 

"I don't believe the sith could have returned without us knowing" - Mace windu

 

The Jedi of the PT were arrogant, that doesn't mean they were weak.

 

The sith never were gone...the jedi just were content with their power and never felt the need to actually investigate thoroughly

 

The Jedi of the Old Republic were the ones who were originally convinced that the Sith were gone, after a thousand years of not seeing or hearing anything, how could you blame them? The Jedi in charge after Bane helped wipe out the rest of the Sith were tired from all the fighting, and instead of actually investigating the rumors they heard, they believed what their eyes told them, because they didn't want to believe that there were still Sith running around the galaxy.

[mefit]

Malak was nothing like weak, how was Revan stronger than any other Jedi of the time? got a substantive quote for that? or is it merely your opinion, also he did not single-handedly defeat the Mandalorians, both Alek and Surik were leaders that won him many vital battles, Surik more than anyone, without her force bonding technique and her great power of persuasion and inspiring loyalty, Dxun could not have been taken by anybody.

 

She also masterminded the entire battle of Malachor V.

 

If you read the books and look at the lore Revan was front line to all battles and the master mind to the strats to defeating them . Really isn't a comic or book where he was just on the sidelines .

[Airmo]

Surik more than anyone, without her force bonding technique and her great power of persuasion and inspiring loyalty, Dxun could not have been taken by anybody.

 

She also masterminded the entire battle of Malachor V.

 

Is there a quote for this? Wasn't Meetra just waiting for the order from Revan to use the mass shadow generator? Where it was his plan to lure the Mandalorians to so he could blow them to oblivion?

[Rayla_Felana]

But what was to stop him from trying again and again until she was worn out? She had to break his will to fight or he would have kept going right? It just seemed to me in Kotor 2 that all the sith lords Meetra fought had some weakness to them for her, and only her apparently, to exploit. Same thing with the darth awesome mask, she was the one thing he couldn't feed on and there was Visas, Traya..well, all she kinda had were three floating lightsabers.. This is my opinion by the way.

 

That's how he slaughtered Jedi ever since the Great Sith War A.K.A the Exar Kun War, you can't kill him, you have to erode his will, Surik basically used Dun Moch, and he gave up on his rage and died.

 

Nihilus died because she and Traya tricked him.

 

Traya didn't have any weaknesses, she was the mastermind of everything that happened, She was a historian with the knowledge of all the Jedi and the Sith, Traya was much more powerful than the other two, simply because she had no weaknesses, and knew everything about her enemies, and more, didn't stop her falling before Surik, whom she showed no quarter to, their battle was simply Surik's final test, she either killed Traya or Traya killed everything in the galaxy.

[TeH-DeVa]

Ya but they didn't have any evidence to go on, so doing an investigation would be doing it blind without any evidence to go off of. Exactly where has it been shown that the jedi were corrupt, and they viewed themselves better then anyone else?

 

That excuse could be used once...maybe twice...possibly even three times. But the Jedi allowed the entire galaxy to be ravaged by the empire many many many many many many times. It was always because they believed the Sith to be gone and became arrogant and content with their power. They decided the sith would be gone forever and decided to just sith on their council and feel invincable.

 

The sith and jedi are just as evil as another it just depends on how you look at them.

 

Anakin skywalker brought balance to the force not by defeating the sith but by removing both sith and light from the galaxy. One can not exist without the other and as long as one remains the other will as well. The only true peace and balance to the galaxy means there is neither. That is why when luke restarted the Jedi order the sith immediately returned many times.

[Airmo]

That's how he slaughtered Jedi ever since the Great Sith War A.K.A the Exar Kun War, you can't kill him, you have to erode his will, Surik basically used Dun Moch, and he gave up on his rage and died.

 

Nihilus died because she and Traya tricked him.

 

Traya didn't have any weaknesses, she was the mastermind of everything that happened, She was a historian with the knowledge of all the Jedi and the Sith, Traya was much more powerful than the other two, simply because she had no weaknesses, and knew everything about her enemies, and more, didn't stop her falling before Surik, whom she showed no quarter to, their battle was simply Surik's final test, she either killed Traya or Traya killed everything in the galaxy.

 

Yes I know that.

 

Traya tricked Nihilus but how did Surik? He tried to feed on her force power but he couldn't so then they just fought, that was more Traya's doing then Surik. By leading him to a place with promise of food but then he never got any and the hunger was weakening him.

 

While I agree Traya is a master and most certainly bad@ss in her own right I think her power was more in manipulation and deception then anything else, I don't think she would stand a chance in a fight with Sion and Nihilus. Agreed on the test thing.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Airmo

[Rayla_Felana]

"I remember the look you had when you turned to me. It was the longest you'd ever looked at me. You didn't say anything—just a nod. Events move quickly then, even in my dreams. Flashes, explosions, you—falling. I could feel the pain around me. And then the memory. The drifting hulks of the Mandalorian ships, the dead—allies, friends, strangers. And then the echo. Lingering. The sound I awaken to in my nightmares."

―Bao-Dur to Surik

 

 

"Finally, as the fighting grew intense, Meetra Surik observed that the Mandalorians had taken the bait and that her trap was set to spring. With a nod of her head, she commanded Bao-Dur to activate the secret weapon. Moments later, she watched in horror as a significant portion of both fleets were suddenly drawn from orbit into a vast gravity vortex that was powerful enough to crush the countless ships into the planet's crust and fracture the world to its very core."

 

A mix of KotOR 2 dialogue with Bao-Dur and the Knights of the Old Republic roleplaying game manual character descriptions.

[TeH-DeVa]

Malak was nothing like weak, how was Revan stronger than any other Jedi of the time? got a substantive quote for that? or is it merely your opinion, also he did not single-handedly defeat the Mandalorians, both Alek and Surik were leaders that won him many vital battles, Surik more than anyone, without her force bonding technique and her great power of persuasion and inspiring loyalty, Dxun could not have been taken by anybody.

 

She also masterminded the entire battle of Malachor V.

 

It's explained many times that Revan was the one behind the entire war. Both strategys and on the frontline. He obviously has people there to help him win certain battles as does every commanding officer but he was still the key and reason it was won.

 

Malak was very weak and knew he would never beat revan. That's why he fired on his ship.

[Airmo]

"I remember the look you had when you turned to me. It was the longest you'd ever looked at me. You didn't say anything—just a nod. Events move quickly then, even in my dreams. Flashes, explosions, you—falling. I could feel the pain around me. And then the memory. The drifting hulks of the Mandalorian ships, the dead—allies, friends, strangers. And then the echo. Lingering. The sound I awaken to in my nightmares."

―Bao-Dur to Surik

 

 

"Finally, as the fighting grew intense, Meetra Surik observed that the Mandalorians had taken the bait and that her trap was set to spring. With a nod of her head, she commanded Bao-Dur to activate the secret weapon. Moments later, she watched in horror as a significant portion of both fleets were suddenly drawn from orbit into a vast gravity vortex that was powerful enough to crush the countless ships into the planet's crust and fracture the world to its very core."

 

A mix of KotOR 2 dialogue with Bao-Dur and the Knights of the Old Republic roleplaying game manual character descriptions.

 

I thought it was said it was Revan's plan? I think it was in a timeline video or something.. good chance I'm wrong though so. I'll have to check.

[TeH-DeVa]

"I remember the look you had when you turned to me. It was the longest you'd ever looked at me. You didn't say anything—just a nod. Events move quickly then, even in my dreams. Flashes, explosions, you—falling. I could feel the pain around me. And then the memory. The drifting hulks of the Mandalorian ships, the dead—allies, friends, strangers. And then the echo. Lingering. The sound I awaken to in my nightmares."

―Bao-Dur to Surik

 

 

"Finally, as the fighting grew intense, Meetra Surik observed that the Mandalorians had taken the bait and that her trap was set to spring. With a nod of her head, she commanded Bao-Dur to activate the secret weapon. Moments later, she watched in horror as a significant portion of both fleets were suddenly drawn from orbit into a vast gravity vortex that was powerful enough to crush the countless ships into the planet's crust and fracture the world to its very core."

 

A mix of KotOR 2 dialogue with Bao-Dur and the Knights of the Old Republic roleplaying game manual character descriptions.

 

this game deemed kotor 2 to never exist...they took apart biowares story it was done by a different company...anything kotor says overwrites what kotor 2 said...and kotor 2 noted revan as the hero of the mandalorian wars

 

*edit* it'd be as if some star wars fan created star wars episode 7 and decided everything that happened 1-6 happened differant and decided to add their own things to it (kotor 2)...and then geroge lucas created his own ep 7 and decided to pretend the stupid fans never existed (tor)

Edited March 7, 2012 by TeH-DeVa

[Wolfninjajedi]

That excuse could be used once...maybe twice...possibly even three times. But the Jedi allowed the entire galaxy to be ravaged by the empire many many many many many many times. It was always because they believed the Sith to be gone and became arrogant and content with their power. They decided the sith would be gone forever and decided to just sith on their council and feel invincable.

 

The sith and jedi are just as evil as another it just depends on how you look at them.

 

Anakin skywalker brought balance to the force not by defeating the sith but by removing both sith and light from the galaxy. One can not exist without the other and as long as one remains the other will as well. The only true peace and balance to the galaxy means there is neither. That is why when luke restarted the Jedi order the sith immediately returned many times.

 

Well considering the sith hadn't been around for a very long time up until TPM, of course they would think the sith are gone thats not being arrogant thats just something they believed up until Maul showed up. Arrogant by definition is exaggerating one's importance or abilities, we never see the jedi say

 

"Oh hey were better then some army of clones, lets not use them and win this war by ourselves."

 

Never did they say that, they knew what their limitations were.

[Airmo]

The Mass Shadow Generator was created by the Zabrak tech specialist Bao-Dur, under orders from the Jedi Knight Revan, in the year 3,960 BBY. The weapon was the centerpiece of a trap with which Revan hoped to bring about a conclusive end to the Mandalorian Wars. Overseeing the device's use was Jedi General Meetra Surik who would later come to be known as the Jedi Exile. Revan lured the Mandalorians to Malachor V, and a massive fleet battle ensued in orbit. During the fighting, Surik commanded Bao-Dur to activate the secret weapon with a single, silent nod. Moments later, a significant portion of both fleets were suddenly drawn from orbit into a vast gravity vortex that was powerful enough to crush the countless ships into the planet's crust and fracture Malachor V to its very core.[1]

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Shadow_Generator

 

It sounds like it was more Revan's plan here.