Kaisernick Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 u do have a point on scorge i mean he enters the throne room with revan and the exile so even after what he does its unlikely the emperor would ever trust him 100% again. and he does agree to stay with the knight incase the emperor isnt dead so its not like hes 100% sure hes gone anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranadiel_Marius Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 I'm pretty sure he isn't immortal in the truest sense of the word. yes, he's been alive for 1400+ years and continues to do so. But he can be killed, which is why he keeps his true body hidden, why he attempts to convert and then kill the JK(who is the Chosen One) etc. Fear of his true body dying is what motivates his quest for power, it's what has motivated every quest for immortality in the epic sagas,poems and stories of humanity. I seriously doubt the motivation behind the murder of trilions upon trillions of citizens in the galaxy is due to a desire to experience life in it's different forms. Even if the Emperor is completely off his rocker, that's a pretty lame excuse for genocide. To throw my opinion into the discussion, yeah it is pretty obvious he isn't completely immortal and he pretty clearly knows that since becoming truly immortal is the whole point of him killing the galaxy. Specifics of what he has achieved though aren't too clear. For example I personally believe the reason his true body is wherever it is between the Treay of Coruscant and the Jedi Knight finale is that he is preparing the ritual and needs his true body to be at the ritual site for it to work properly and it is unrelated to the "mortality" of that body. As for his motivation, I tend to believe that he doesn't really have a fear of dying persay. He just has a thirst for infintie knowledge and views death as an annoyance that is trying to get in the way of his pursuits. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temeluchus Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 To throw my opinion into the discussion, yeah it is pretty obvious he isn't completely immortal and he pretty clearly knows that since becoming truly immortal is the whole point of him killing the galaxy. Specifics of what he has achieved though aren't too clear. For example I personally believe the reason his true body is wherever it is between the Treay of Coruscant and the Jedi Knight finale is that he is preparing the ritual and needs his true body to be at the ritual site for it to work properly and it is unrelated to the "mortality" of that body. As for his motivation, I tend to believe that he doesn't really have a fear of dying persay. He just has a thirst for infintie knowledge and views death as an annoyance that is trying to get in the way of his pursuits. *shrug* Motivations like that would make the Emperor a lot more interesting and scarier than say if BW had written him as just another genocidal manic determined to wipe out life. It is fun to watch the occasional psycho who,to borrow from Alfred Pennyworth,"just want to watch the world burn"; but it is much more entertaining to have a main villain who is motivated by something more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salabadon Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 No he was born on Medriaas. He later conquered it and renamed it Natheema, but the name of the planet when he was born on it was Medriaas. And what precisly is your evidence that he is definatly a Sith Pureblood? Well.. Check his wookiepedia entry.. Says he was a Sith.. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_Emperor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranadiel_Marius Posted May 21, 2012 Author Share Posted May 21, 2012 Well.. Check his wookiepedia entry.. Says he was a Sith.. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith_Emperor And Wookiepedia is not an official source. The official source that it cites to is the Revan novel and I already explained my rationale for why I do not believe this is solid proof in the Problem with Scourge section. A body that he was inhabiting at the time of the Novel was a Sith Pureblood. However we do not know if said body was the Emperor's true body, original body, Voice, or even a Child of the Emperor that he was possessing at the time. Basides, if we take the legend that is told about hsi origin as fact, then it doesn't make much sense for him to be a pureblood. According to the legend neither of his "parents" were force sensative and it was Tenebrae's fprce sensativity that tipped his "father" off that Tenebrae might not actually be his son. It is extremely uncommon for Purebloods to not be force sensitive(I think there is only NPC like that in the enitre game). As such it is unlikely that either of his parents were purebloods. Had the Emperor been born a pureblood, the red skin likely would have been a bigger tip off than just the force sensitivity. Hardly conclusive(especially since I don't think the legend is 100% accurate), but I think it is worth pointing out. Bottom line is that regardless of whatever Wookiepedia says, we just do not have any official evidence of his birth species. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eightus Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I just read your post on the Sith Emperor and I must say I am totally impressed of how you were able to analyze and piece together all of the information that we currently have about the Emperor. I agreed with almost everything you stated in that post. I just think that Revan and Scourge met the real Emperor, and I base that opinion on the Emperor's strength when Revan fought him. As I remember he was completely overwhelming Revan at one point in their fight, and if it wasnt for his droid, Revan would have been killed. I dont believe that the Voice would posses such power to overwhelm Revan so easily. When we fight Revan in one of the flashpoints on the Imperial side, it takes four of us to beat him, story wise that would mean four of the Empire's most powerful individuals(PCs). I think that only the Emperor himself would have the power to actually take Revan out with one shot. Anyway, great post I hope you make more of those based on other main characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spookyBen Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Wow, thats pretty big! And i read it all till the controversal stuff! No offence, but I couldnt read anymore without my brain exploding due to reading so much... But besides that, Good job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atalis Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Excellent Work. I'm very impressed. I sometimes like to make projects about Star Wars as well. SWTOR and Star Wars forever.:sy_galaxy: Edited June 6, 2012 by atalis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empha Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) First of all. Awesome post And secondly, The Emperor is in fact a Sith (the race). I'll cite the Revan novel: "Scourge felt a shiver trace its way down his spine, and he knew that far more than his life was at risk. The emperor was no longer a member of the Sith species; his power and immortality had transformed him into a being unique in the galaxy" and... Another point is that during the Great Hyperspace War is that there were no human sith lords (since the Siths had hidden on Korriban and close planets/systems) interacting with the Sith species and therefore Tenebrae must be Sith since his father was Lord Dramath. Yes, the first sith lords were human, but when they attacked the republic (a year after the hundred-year darkness end) the remaining sith lords blended their DNA with the Sith species, so that they could "live" on after their deaths. I just wanted to end your discussion about if he was a Sith or not ^^ Edited June 12, 2012 by Empha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranadiel_Marius Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share Posted June 12, 2012 First of all. Awesome post And secondly, The Emperor is in fact a Sith (the race). I'll cite the Revan novel: "Scourge felt a shiver trace its way down his spine, and he knew that far more than his life was at risk. The emperor was no longer a member of the Sith species; his power and immortality had transformed him into a being unique in the galaxy" and... Another point is that during the Great Hyperspace War is that there were no human sith lords (since the Siths had hidden on Korriban and close planets/systems) interacting with the Sith species and therefore Tenebrae must be Sith since his father was Lord Dramath. Yes, the first sith lords were human, but when they attacked the republic (a year after the hundred-year darkness end) the remaining sith lords blended their DNA with the Sith species, so that they could "live" on after their deaths. I just wanted to end your discussion about if he was a Sith or not ^^ The debate will never end. I take that quote to mean that the body that Scourge meets was originally a Sith Pureblood. However since I firmly believe Scourge never actually met the Emperor, whether or not that specific body was once a pureblood is irrelevent to whether the Emperor was born a pureblood as well. As for your second point, purebloods breeding with humans can produce human looking offspring if my memory iof Star Wars breeding rules is correct. So even if we accept that Tenebrae is pureblood, which is an argument I don't feel I know enough about to get into at the moment, it is possible that the Emperor still could have been born human looking. You need to remember the reason the father who raised him believed that the child wasn't his was because of force ability not becasue of skin color. His mother and her husband were described as being non-force sensitive. It is extremely rare for a Sith Pureblood at the time of TOR to be born without force sensitivity, and that is after generations of the bloodlines "weakening". Around the time of the Great Hyperspace War, that should be unheard of. Two of them together as a couple would practically be a statistical impossibilitiy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malarspark Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 amazing stuff dude. i have to agree with you that the JK killed a voice of the emperor rather than the actual emperor. the simplest one being, who would give the SW missions if he was dead. i had this conversation with a friend who plays and his argument was that the SW would probably become the emperor leading to the point of us having what over 1000 emperors f-ing about the universe. having read this (and made him read it) its solved an on going argument between me (SW) and him (JK). so thanks for that as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Hatine Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 (edited) I think that what happened in WoW with the Blood Elves original leader will happen with the Emperor. Everyone loves him until the Dark Council finds out the Emperor wants to kill everyone Darth Nihilus style. Also the Sith Warrior's story can continue with the Emperor's death through the Dark Council. One of the dialogue options for the Sith Warrior at the end is that he "will assist the Dark Council in its most critical matters". Meaning if the Emperor isn't his master the Dark Council would be. Edited July 14, 2012 by Darth_Hatine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrooperLPN Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 Very well done, I do however, have a few things to point out. If I'm not mistaken, Scourge had a series of visions about who killed the Emperor, two of which Revan killed the Emperor, and I, along with a number of other people, don't believe that Revan was killed in The Foundry. Another thing, I remember the Voss Mystic trial quest, and for the Knight he saw the Emperor and the Emperor said something to the extent of: You cannot redeem me, this will only end in death, and you won't cause it. The Voss Mystic later explained that the vision cannot be changed. Thirdly, I believe Revan himself envisioned him killing the Emperor. Finally, the letter said that the Emperor would rise again, and since the knight didn't kill him the first time, I don't believe he can do it this time. One might say "Well, since Revan was so weak in the Foundry he couldn't possibly kill the Emperor", I disagree, for because Revan was being weakened and fed off by the Emperor, I don't believe he had any time to recover, and even when he was so weak he was the only known person of ever influencing the Emperor. So well done with the post, but, call me a fanboy, but I believe only Revan will kill the Emperor once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranadiel_Marius Posted July 19, 2012 Author Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) Yeah....I sort of hate doing this, but you are a fanboy and you are being ridiculous. Revan isn't a PC anymore, and he isn't going to overshadow them. If he does then that is bad writing and will just be proof that the people who call Revan a Mary Sue are right. As for Scourge's visions, my understanding is that Scourge has had two visions that we are aware of. In the first Revn, the Exile, and him were defeated by the Emperor and in the second he gives the Emperor's crown to the JK after the JK defeats the Emperor. As for the Emperor quote, that is "I will not be contained. I cannot be redeemed. Death is all that remains, and you will not kill me." It is a line that he can actually say when the JK confronts him at the end of Chapter 3, and in context it is clearly the Emperor saying that he is going to kill the JK.....and he is wrong on that. Get over Revan, he isn't the main character anymore and the galaxy has moved on. You should too. And if you want to gush over how "super special amazing awesome" he is I humbly ask you do it in one of the hundred Revan threads rather than this one. Edited July 19, 2012 by Ranadiel_Marius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterPetricco Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) I'm not so sure the Emperor has been in-game yet, not in his true body anyway, but I do believe the one in the Revan Novel was his true body for a couple of reasons. I'm a collector so I got both the hardback and audio versions of the Revan novel, finished the book a few days after release and listened to the audio version not that long ago. Both portray The Emperor Scourge encounters as vastly darker and having a far more powerful presense then either of the voices. Infact in the audio version of his voice is very calm while speaking but at the same time malicious, like a dark whisper telling you to do evil and it echoes. I loved this voice and hope Bioware reuse it for the true emperor. Now given his written discription and the pure fear Revan, Scourge and the Exile felt just looking at him, and the special effects given to his voice, and his eyes being discribed as black voids. This all leads me to believe this was the true emperor, as none of these are traits any voice of the emperor has displayed, they retain their own physical bodies and voices to an extent. It could just be easier to portray that power and presense in writing then in the game, but the drastically different discriptions and pure power the Emperor had in the novel, just by being near him is something never truly shown in the game so it was either a far greater avatar then we have seen, or the true emperor's body. Edited July 21, 2012 by MasterPetricco Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KivanSane Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 One of the interesting things about star wars is the lack of immortality. People grow old and die , a hundred years is all they get. I think the Emperor's True body is long gone and turned to dust , and all that's left is a body hopping ghost. The perfect enemy actually , for an MMO , because you can't really kill him permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkelefantos Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 BW is obviously aiming for a Star Wars/Mass Effect cross-over. The Emperor turns himself into the very first Reaper, Harbinger, and starts assuming control of the galaxy, creating a system of cyclic evolution. OK, jokes aside, it's remarkable how close the Emperor's intentions (which he plainly reveals to the JK) are with what the Reapers do in Mass Effect. Anyhow, well done, though maybe it's time to update the OP maybe? I mean, for example the fact that you believe the Hand consists of 10 servants when the SW meets Servant Eleven on Corellia Anyways, hope you keep this up to date when anything new comes up. Nicely done, +1 internetz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranadiel_Marius Posted August 3, 2012 Author Share Posted August 3, 2012 BW is obviously aiming for a Star Wars/Mass Effect cross-over. The Emperor turns himself into the very first Reaper, Harbinger, and starts assuming control of the galaxy, creating a system of cyclic evolution. OK, jokes aside, it's remarkable how close the Emperor's intentions (which he plainly reveals to the JK) are with what the Reapers do in Mass Effect. Anyhow, well done, though maybe it's time to update the OP maybe? I mean, for example the fact that you believe the Hand consists of 10 servants when the SW meets Servant Eleven on Corellia Anyways, hope you keep this up to date when anything new comes up. Nicely done, +1 internetz. Now now the Emperor's goals actually make sense, don't compare him to the Reaper's. He wants infinite knowledge while they want....to prevent something that they are causing. That's all I am daying on that topic though. Meh, I had met that servant like 2 months before I wrote this. For some reason I was thinking it was Servant Seven and apparently never double checked. But I just double checked and you are right it is Servant Eleven. Doesn't completely disprove the ten idea since the Emperor could either skip numbers to make people think there are more than there really are or he could write their numbers out in base 8 just to be a compelte jerk. Still that is something that should be mentioned. I'll get around to updating it sometime. >.> At the moment I've got only two changes that really need to be made(the Hand bit and adding an FAQ question). Hardly seems enough to warrant an update, but I probably should do it soonish before I forget about the hand bit. Side note, this thread has apparently hit 10k views! Which means we are averaging around 150 views per post right now. So hurray, let's make the next 10k views just as civil and intellegent as the last 10k! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temeluchus Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 So the interview that Torwars had with Hall Hood,the new lead writer, has him pretty much confirming that the JK did kill the Emperor(physically) but he hinted that the Emperor 's essence is still out there and trying to put itself back together. He also hinted that the Emperor has had numerous bodies since his original and that this might be the key to his immortality. Give it a listen, take from it what you will and adjust your perceptions accordingly. http://torwars.com/2012/08/22/torwars-podcast-98-our-interview-with-biowares-hall-hood/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranadiel_Marius Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 So the interview that Torwars had with Hall Hood,the new lead writer, has him pretty much confirming that the JK did kill the Emperor(physically) but he hinted that the Emperor 's essence is still out there and trying to put itself back together. He also hinted that the Emperor has had numerous bodies since his original and that this might be the key to his immortality. Give it a listen, take from it what you will and adjust your perceptions accordingly. http://torwars.com/2012/08/22/torwars-podcast-98-our-interview-with-biowares-hall-hood/ Not an in game source, and he is basically contradicting what is present in the game itself. So three possibilities here as to what is going on: 1. They weren't paying attention and put in the game some dialogue/lore that was counter to what they had intended and he is expressing what it was always supposed to be 2. The original intent was for the Emperor's body not to be destroyed but the story team has changed their mind but have yet to have a chance to retcon the event in the game yet 3. The intent of the story team is unchanged and he was off in his description either because he was being a litle misleading, mispoke, or remembered things slightly off. I expect 2 to be the most likely possibility, but there is no real way to know for sure. This guide will continue to reflect what is in game, so until they retcon it I will not be changing that. As an aside, he is wrong on another detail in the interview. He states it is implied that the Emperor has been killed before which is not implied at any point in the game, and in fact the Hand outright states that it is an impossible task to kill the Emperor. No one else really even addresses the possibility of the Emperor dying much less the possibility of it having happened before. I think he is probably thinking that the Emperor's Voice=the Emperor, but that doesn't fit with what is presented in game or what is in the codex for the Emperor's Voice. But then we just go back to the quest of which of the three situations are we dealing with. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101213075841/starwars/images/6/69/Vaiken_exodus.jpg This isn't really related to what has been posted recently but iI thought this would be the best place to post it. Found this picture on the internet recently - is it possible that the sith in the picture is the emperor? My reasons for thinking this is the Naga Sadow -esque robes signifying him as someone of importance, and the fact that the emperor killed all the remaining sith lords with the ritual on Nathema. So surely this can only be the emperor's true body? By the way this is an image from the holonet journal - and the blonde one in the picture is a young vaiken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranadiel_Marius Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 *shrug* Could be, but it could be just about anyone else also. However your reasoning is off. My understanding is that the Sith Emperor did not kill off "every SIth Lord." He only killed off the ones who headed his call, and there were certainly others who did not trust him or were unable to attend. Among those who followed him were certainly some Sith Purebloods since the race does have a sizable population in the current empire and their numbers have been shrinking, not expanding, over the decades because their features seem to be recessive traits. Additionally, we don't know for certain when the Emperor began using his Voice with any regularity, so even if that is suppsoed to be the Emperor the possibility remains that it is his Voice and not his body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I suppose so, but it looks like we'll never no seeing as BW have little intention of bringing the real body into play, only more voices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuscad Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101213075841/starwars/images/6/69/Vaiken_exodus.jpg This isn't really related to what has been posted recently but iI thought this would be the best place to post it. Found this picture on the internet recently - is it possible that the sith in the picture is the emperor? My reasons for thinking this is the Naga Sadow -esque robes signifying him as someone of importance, and the fact that the emperor killed all the remaining sith lords with the ritual on Nathema. So surely this can only be the emperor's true body? By the way this is an image from the holonet journal - and the blonde one in the picture is a young vaiken. That same Sith is in a lot of the timeline videos, before release I remember speculating that Lord Scourge was the actual Emperor and that someone else had ursurped his throne and that he teamed up with the Jedi Knight to overthrow the pretender, I speculated that because that Sith looks alot like Lord Scourge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaisernick Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 im sure at the end of the knight story scourge says "i will say with the jedi until i am certain the emperor is truly dead" or something like this. so it seems that the argument that scougre cant be fooled is kind of true as he isn't 100% sure that the emperor is dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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