Same gender relationships clarifications?

[JCisneros]

It is difficult to express, even as an academic, how it feels to suspect that the Same Gender Romances are/were treated as an afterthought rather than as an integral part of the universe. This is my sole concern. When the Development team decided (for whatever reasons) to delay implementation of SGRA until after launch at an unspecified time, they took the very good press they had developed over the years on this very topic and laid bare the simple fact that they did not feel it was not important enough to develop in tandem with the main story. That is problematic. I now have 8 characters, all of the them have progressed at least to the midgame and changing my personal storyline to accomodate the new "reality" of SGRA will cost me character slots.

 

Yes, I will erase certain characters and recreate them, it is just that important to me. But, I have spent a lifetime feeling like my relationships are reviled or a complete afterthought. If BioWare wanted to make me feel good and make me a satisfied customer, they should have not made the implementation piecemeal and later than the "normal" heterosexual relationships. This whole thing has been poorly handled, and trotting out the co-founder for an interview about ME3 is not going to satisfy me.

 

I feel like I am being penalized for wanting to feel like I am equal and valued as a customer. If BioWare does not see the implicit insult in "adding" SGRA later after having the mechanic in place in other games for years, then they have misread the gay component of their audience.

 

No amount of stating unspecified difficulties will change that.

 

Bluntly put, why must I erase character slots and start over to enjoy something that should have been there from the beginning.

 

JC

[DarthRamette]

I don't get it, some of you are now unhappy even though they said that SGR will be in the game? That is what you wanted yet now its not good enough? Good lord, your not the only ones who wanted things in the game and yet you got it.

[Angel_of_Cain]

I don't get it, some of you are now unhappy even though they said that SGR will be in the game? That is what you wanted yet now its not good enough? Good lord, your not the only ones who wanted things in the game and yet you got it.

 

Welcome to the forums.

 

We're not happy no matter what BW does:mad:

[mrcaptainpants]

I don't get it, some of you are now unhappy even though they said that SGR will be in the game? That is what you wanted yet now its not good enough? Good lord, your not the only ones who wanted things in the game and yet you got it.

 

Sour grapes much?

 

Your comment makes no sense. I am unhappy because of poor communication.

 

They have also announced cross-server warzones will be in the game. Do you think that should make me happy about poor communication? They could announce they are putting poodles that poop rainbows into the game, but that would not address my concern, which is...again...poor communication.

[sparklecat]

mrcaptainpants: I take your point, re forgetting everything that happened so quickly. I was just so excited and relieved to hear that it was still going to be in, that we even had a timeframe, that it's taken me awhile to realise that no, it's still not what it should be. Better than complete silence != sufficient to address our concerns about how this has been handled thus far.

 

 

When the Development team decided (for whatever reasons) to delay implementation of SGRA until after launch at an unspecified time, they took the very good press they had developed over the years on this very topic and laid bare the simple fact that they did not feel it was not important enough to develop in tandem with the main story....

 

 

But, I have spent a lifetime feeling like my relationships are reviled or a complete afterthought. If BioWare wanted to make me feel good and make me a satisfied customer, they should have not made the implementation piecemeal and later than the "normal" heterosexual relationships...

 

 

I feel like I am being penalized for wanting to feel like I am equal and valued as a customer. If BioWare does not see the implicit insult in "adding" SGRA later after having the mechanic in place in other games for years, then they have misread the gay component of their audience.

 

No amount of stating unspecified difficulties will change that.

 

Yeah. Ditto to all of this. I said at the time that DA2 came out that that was literally the first time I have ever felt valued by a company as a specifically lesbian customer, or treated on the same footing as the straight customers. And that bought a lot of love and loyalty from me; it's a pity they seem intent on destroying all of that with how they're handling things now. I only hope they do better on future games; not having it in at launch was the wrong thing to do, regardless of the reason, but it's not like they can go back in time and fix it now.

[Nozybidaj]

Okay. But let me ask this: what would you, as an IT professional, tell someone if it really was a time and budget constraint that stopped you putting Feature X into your latest project?

 

It is just a default answer, everyone gets told that. Time and Budget are never a reason why something doesn't get done, because everything costs time and money to do.

 

In this case whatever feature X or Y did make it into the game for launch that caused them to cut same gender romances also cost them time and money to do. Time and Money are not the reason this didn't make it into the game.

 

I agree, but if they're putting in new character then those characters have to have an entry-point into the story.

 

Again, this is speculation. If they're producing new companions they'll have to chain it to new story content. Just saying, 'Oh by the way, these guys were here all along'[/i] really wouldn't go down terribly well.

 

Why? They could stick the new companions in wherever they wanted, you could pick them up at level 10 or level 50. It all depends where they want them to come into the game. And if the new companions are chained to anything it should be the class stories, not just a specific story addition that may or may not have anything to do with it. Maybe in the future once they finally clean up the mess they have made with the exclusion of SGRA's they can do more focused companions like that, but having the SGRA companions only relevant to a tiny portion of the overall story is just bad story telling, and I think would show how little they think of them.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Nozybidaj

[Nozybidaj]

I guess the truth is I'm a bit taken aback by how quickly everyone seems to have forgotten how we were treated. Honestly, when SGRA's come out, I really hope they are done well, because if they aren't, and people decide to try to open a dialogue with Bioware Austin, they will be talking into the void.

 

Agreed. I'm pretty amazed that a single answer, which really still amounted to a non-answer since they didn't tell us anything, got so many folks willing to give them a free pass now. If even just the simple acknowledgement that people want answers was enough for folks, then I don't see them actually putting effort into following through on this content satisfactorily.

 

Yes, I will erase certain characters and recreate them, it is just that important to me. But, I have spent a lifetime feeling like my relationships are reviled or a complete afterthought. If BioWare wanted to make me feel good and make me a satisfied customer, they should have not made the implementation piecemeal and later than the "normal" heterosexual relationships. This whole thing has been poorly handled, and trotting out the co-founder for an interview about ME3 is not going to satisfy me.

 

I feel like I am being penalized for wanting to feel like I am equal and valued as a customer. If BioWare does not see the implicit insult in "adding" SGRA later after having the mechanic in place in other games for years, then they have misread the gay component of their audience.

 

No amount of stating unspecified difficulties will change that

 

Very much agreed, well said.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Nozybidaj

[BrenNerani]

I've also started on ME3 and highly recommend it, even if I've just played the first few chapters.

 

I'll try to avoid spoilers from my experience, but today it dawned on me, related to this topic, that the first two NPCs I met that either mentioned attraction or mentioned family relationships beyond blood relatives was of the same gender variation, and it felt completely natural. That, to me, is a better apology from Bioware for leaving SGR out of the the first two ME games and for being late with it in SWToR than any developer feedback. Of course, I'd prefer it if it wasn't an issue in the first place, but right now I'm very happy and can enjoy ME3 without that unwelcoming feeling I got when I realised it was missing in ME2 and SWToR.

 

That is just awesome.

[Innocentone]

Some stuff to me doesn't add up in a way. I feel like they have already made the stuff yet. I feel as if they are waiting on a specific time frame to release it. When they mention it being a post launch feature. Is that suppose to really mean something that is gonna take almost a year to add into the game? There are times when I tend to read people and there reactions toward things. It took until nearly the last question for this to be answered yet I could see some hesitation towards answering it. I am starting to question why. The lack of communication between the developers and the players that want this feature was almost non existent . I can only hope that this doesn't get pushed back any further.

[DarthRamette]

Your player base isn't the only one who has had things put off and not given any frame as to when things will be fixed. At least you got confirmation that your wish will be granted. I'm sorry but when I think of Star Wars I don't think about SGR, I don't really think of sex at all. Perhaps you should be happy that they are putting it in the game instead of blowing you off as they have many people and issues. I have a feeling even after this comes out some of you won't be happy about how it is either.

[sparklecat]

Your player base isn't the only one who has had things put off and not given any frame as to when things will be fixed. At least you got confirmation that your wish will be granted. I'm sorry but when I think of Star Wars I don't think about SGR, I don't really think of sex at all. Perhaps you should be happy that they are putting it in the game instead of blowing you off as they have many people and issues. I have a feeling even after this comes out some of you won't be happy about how it is either.

 

This isn't just a Star Wars game, this is a Star Wars roleplaying game. And most people (and, apparently, humanoid Star Wars aliens) have a sex drive.

 

 

I am happy they're putting it in. I'm not happy they didn't put it in at launch, and yes, I imagine I won't be completely happy when it comes either, simply because there'll be some people I wanted to be available who won't be. My happiness with their treatment of this content isn't binary.

[Glavius]

Your player base isn't the only one who has had things put off and not given any frame as to when things will be fixed. At least you got confirmation that your wish will be granted. I'm sorry but when I think of Star Wars I don't think about SGR, I don't really think of sex at all. Perhaps you should be happy that they are putting it in the game instead of blowing you off as they have many people and issues. I have a feeling even after this comes out some of you won't be happy about how it is either.

 

I agree with this, I hope that the final implementation of SGRs respects this point of view.

[sparklecat]

I agree with this, I hope that the final implementation of SGRs respects this point of view.

 

Sorry, I'm a little confused; how might it do so?

[DarthRamette]

I agree with this, I hope that the final implementation of SGRs respects this point of view.

 

 

Thank you for some support unlike other people on here.

[Glavius]

Sorry, I'm a little confused; how might it do so?

 

I have some view on this that i would be happy to share in pm, but i fear provoking a flameware, so I shall not post them here. I'm sure the Devs are competent enough to understand the issue and take it into account.

[Nozybidaj]

People of any persuasion are free to play characters as they prefer.

 

Except we aren't free to do so, Bioware only included people of one persuasion in their game. But yes, I agree that people of any persuasion should be free to play characters as they prefer.

 

Personally it still boggles the mind a bit how Bioware didn't include this content for launch. This is base line story content here, this isn't some little color matching addon or a new color crystal or something that wouldn't make a difference if they put it off. This is primary story content missing from the game. I can't believe it is taking them this long to resolve the issue. It is simply negligent.

Edited March 10, 2012 by Nozybidaj

[Kioma]

Even after that people are still unhappy with BW even though you got your wish.

 

DarthRamette, I agree with you on this point. Truly I do - as long as you're not implying this statement applies to everyone who posts here. There are indeed some vocal posters who just aren't happy with the information given and seem determined to be negative about the whole thing; if you read back a few pages you'll see I've actually been trying to contest that viewpoint because I find it needlessly non-constructive.

 

However it is their right to feel that way, whether others agree with it or not.

 

I am also sure once it is put in the game there will be a vocal group who say it isn't good enough for one reason or another.

 

Sadly, this is also true - but let's be fair, it's the case for anything that's put into the game, no matter what the nature. When PvP gets fixed there's always a small but vocal group who decry the changes put in because it doesn't work the way they'd like. That's the nature of a game that includes a lot of different, and often directly contrary, personalities.

 

I don't know whether you're implying that this mindset, the one of people who will decry a change they asked for even when they get it, is unique to the SGRA/LGBT crowd because it's certainly not.

 

Whether I want to be in the game or not is a moot point but the fact you got your wish for this when others are still waiting on news of any kind should make you happy.

 

It made me happy. Two minutes of talk certainly didn't answer all my concerns, but I'm glad they didn't just say, 'We're not talking about that, next question.'

[DarthRamette]

DarthRamette, I agree with you on this point. Truly I do - as long as you're not implying this statement applies to everyone who posts here. There are indeed some vocal posters who just aren't happy with the information given and seem determined to be negative about the whole thing; if you read back a few pages you'll see I've actually been trying to contest that viewpoint because I find it needlessly non-constructive.

 

However it is their right to feel that way, whether others agree with it or not.

 

 

 

Sadly, this is also true - but let's be fair, it's the case for anything that's put into the game, no matter what the nature. When PvP gets fixed there's always a small but vocal group who decry the changes put in because it doesn't work the way they'd like. That's the nature of a game that includes a lot of different, and often directly contrary, personalities.

 

I don't know whether you're implying that this mindset, the one of people who will decry a change they asked for even when they get it, is unique to the SGRA/LGBT crowd because it's certainly not.

 

 

 

It made me happy. Two minutes of talk certainly didn't answer all my concerns, but I'm glad they didn't just say, 'We're not talking about that, next question.'

 

Point One: I am not implying that everyone is like that, as you pointed out there are some who are and seem to be very vocal about it. True, they can feel that way or not, it just irks me of ungratefulness since others are waiting for things to be fixed/implemented themselves.

 

Point Two: No I am not saying your group is the only one, I am also browsing the PvP forum and people are pissed at the incoming changes there too, so yes it does go across the board and not just this subject.

 

Point Three: I am glad you were happy they at least talked about it. The FPS issue is a big one yet nothing from BW other then it "is your system" crap when it isn't all the time.

[Kioma]

Point One: I am not implying that everyone is like that,

 

Then, on this point at least, you and I are in agreement.

 

it just irks me of ungratefulness since others are waiting for things to be fixed/implemented themselves.

 

Then be assured you're not the only one it irks.

 

Point Two: No I am not saying your group is the only one, I am also browsing the PvP forum and people are pissed at the incoming changes there too, so yes it does go across the board and not just this subject.

 

Then again, we're in agreement.

 

Point Three: I am glad you were happy they at least talked about it. The FPS issue is a big one yet nothing from BW other then it "is your system" crap when it isn't all the time.

 

I can't really comment on that. I'm in Australia playing on a laptop so whenever I get FPS issues I automatically assume it's my system.

[mrcaptainpants]

Point One: I am not implying that everyone is like that, as you pointed out there are some who are and seem to be very vocal about it. True, they can feel that way or not, it just irks me of ungratefulness since others are waiting for things to be fixed/implemented themselves.

 

DarthRamette, you seem very resentful about the fact that we finally got some kind of response to our issue. I hope you realize that the only reason we did finally get a response is by being "very vocal about it".

 

If, rather than pursuing our goal of getting a response, we had instead decided that the best way to further our own cause was to visit threads on other issues and complain about the people in those threads being too vocal about their issues, we would still be waiting for a response.

 

Maybe instead of bitterly pointing out how you resent the fact that we got a response, you could try asking for support on some of the issues you would like to see a response on, and direct people to specific threads on those issues?

 

Asking for support is a much better way to get help than criticizing people for getting something they worked pretty darn hard for.

[DarthRamette]

DarthRamette, you seem very resentful about the fact that we finally got some kind of response to our issue. I hope you realize that the only reason we did finally get a response is by being "very vocal about it".

 

If, rather than pursuing our goal of getting a response, we had instead decided that the best way to further our own cause was to visit threads on other issues and complain about the people in those threads being too vocal about their issues, we would still be waiting for a response.

 

Maybe instead of bitterly pointing out how you resent the fact that we got a response, you could try asking for support on some of the issues you would like to see a response on, and direct people to specific threads on those issues?

 

Asking for support is a much better way to get help than criticizing people for getting something they worked pretty darn hard for.

 

It has nothing to do with resenting you got it, my feelings on this are known and it has nothing to do with resentment. What I am saying is the fact you got it yet some are not happy with that. What more do you want, you got what you wanted yet some are still ************ about it.

 

I have been very vocal about the FPS stuff along with other people yet BW either ignore us or tell us it's our machines when it is not. Most times we are just plain ignored and BW have done nothing about it at all. Like I said, some people are just not plain happy about now getting SGR in the future and I am sure there will be people who will not like how BW do it and implement it. Resentful no, its obvious you didnt see or decided not to see my exchange you took my quote from or took it in the context you felt which you are wrong on.

[Nozybidaj]

I have been very vocal about the FPS stuff along with other people yet BW either ignore us or tell us it's our machines when it is not. Most times we are just plain ignored and BW have done nothing about it at all.

 

Then go to the FPS thread, if there is one, and ask about it, ask in the Q&A.

 

The game is using the HeroEngine I seem to recall. I'm not particularly up to date on that engine, but it is an older game engine designed around 2005 or so I believe and likely isn't well optimized with newer hardware, likely no or very rudimentary multi-core processor support, likely poor management of larger available memory pools, etc. If the FPS issues are related to simple limitations with the game engine there isn't anything BW is going to be able to do about it. I would agree they should just come out and tell folks that, but I doubt they will.

[mrcaptainpants]

I have been very vocal about the FPS stuff along with other people yet BW either ignore us or tell us it's our machines when it is not. Most times we are just plain ignored and BW have done nothing about it at all.

 

Well, actually, Bioware Austin isn't ignoring you. They did respond, by putting up a post about FPS optimization and other issues called A Note On General Performance Issues. So...you got a response to your issue (before we did, I might add) and you're still complaining about it, though you will criticize others for doing the same.

 

To be fair, though, I wouldn't have been satisfied with that "General Optimization" post as a solution, either, and for what it's worth, I think that you are quite right to continue your crusade for a better response.

 

But, even though I do not experience FPS issues, it never ONCE occurred to me to go into the FPS optimization thread and say "You all got a response, now stop complaining!", while I was still waiting for a response on SGRA's.

 

What you are seeking is not a response, but actual implementation that solves your problem, correct? Some of the people in this thread who are unhappy are merely seeking the same thing. Its really not any different than what you are doing right now. Except that they're not doing it in your FPS thread.

 

EDIT FOR CLARITY: Though I think I've made my position clear in my other posts, I'll state here that I am not among those who are upset that we don't have SGRA implementation right now. I would have liked it, yes, but lack of implementation is not what I am unhappy about. However, I understand why those who are unhappy about the lack of SGRA's at launch feel as they do.

Edited March 10, 2012 by mrcaptainpants

[Silthir]

It has nothing to do with resenting you got it, my feelings on this are known and it has nothing to do with resentment. What I am saying is the fact you got it yet some are not happy with that. What more do you want, you got what you wanted yet some are still ************ about it.

 

Yeah, but you have to realize that these people will complain about everything. They look for reasons to complain, so don't compare us those people.

 

I have been very vocal about the FPS stuff along with other people yet BW either ignore us or tell us it's our machines when it is not. Most times we are just plain ignored and BW have done nothing about it at all. Like I said, some people are just not plain happy about now getting SGR in the future and I am sure there will be people who will not like how BW do it and implement it. Resentful no, its obvious you didnt see or decided not to see my exchange you took my quote from or took it in the context you felt which you are wrong on.

 

Okay, but do you realize that it took more than one person to be vocal on the issue? There was a flood of requests about SGRs at the Guild Summit and that's one of the main reasons we even got word on it? If you really want more of an answer, get a whole bunch of people to spam them on the Q&A thread...

[ErraticRhapsody]

Wow...so they really are going to be working on same gender relationships with our companions? Thank goodness! Gosh. I should've been paying more attention to the forums in the beginning.

 

Sidebar- I swear...if Vette doesn't have the option of being in a relationship with a woman...I think I might force choke someone. Seriously. The only reason I'm playing a dude is so I can have that option.