How badly do I need the 30% snare on Rupture/Cauterize?

[muradi]

Thinking...

vs

Scoundrel healer - yes, need very much

Sage - yes I need

Gunslingers - don't need at all

Scoundrel mdps - don't need

Commando lolspammer - don't need at all

Commando healer - don't need

Powertech - don't need

Guardian - don't need

Sent - don't need

Assassin - don't need

 

Makes me think hmm. Maybe get something else for those 2 points and use legsweep on sages and healer scoundrels.

[neeman]

You have a 50% slow that lasts for 12s called Leg Slash.

 

You don't need the 30% slow at all.

Edited March 2, 2012 by neeman

[Dissentus]

You have a 50% slow that lasts for 12s called Leg Slash.

 

You don't need the 30% slow at all.

 

Yep, this. I have not needed it at all on my sent.

[Asphen]

This is a good question. Before, ability delay was so bad on Leg Slash that it was just unusable. You couldn't even land Leg Slash after a Force Leap before the knockback, because the ability delay was so bad.

 

Is it still like this?

 

 

 

I do like the snare on Cauterize, but that was because Leg Slash wasn't playable from ability delay. I'm curious how it is now.

[Brytag]

i been torn by this debate for a week now. imo i like the cauterize debuff. its a global CD freed up not putting on leg slash. i open with zealous or leap and hit cauterize and then just start wailing. the debuff could last a little longer but i have noticed between merc slash / slash, that cauterize tends to usually always be off CD that i am able to just reapply it.

 

I do still use leg slash however. if there is a target i want to make sure i stay on (healer etc), ill throw it on. i may get unlucky with the cauterize CD reset not proccing and thus they get away.

 

my advice, is get inflammation but dont expect it a total replacement for leg slash.

 

i run 35/2/4

[Keja]

There's too many other 50% snares out there to settle for any less yourself.

[Spungey]

meh, its personal prefernce imo.. I dont have leg slash on my hotbar and its just one less button to push. using leg slash is just a dps loss on your target and a waste of 2 focus. use the slow with cauterize and there not getting away from you.

[Xerain]

ok waste two points and a global... you can do something much better with both. like slash for damage or maybe Merc Slash if you have enough points... the 30% slow will suffice in doing what you need it to do.

[Keja]

meh, its personal prefernce imo.. I dont have leg slash on my hotbar and its just one less button to push. using leg slash is just a dps loss on your target and a waste of 2 focus. use the slow with cauterize and there not getting away from you.

 

A dps loss on your target occurs when they're out of range of your attack.

Which is more likely when you're snared at 50% and they're only at 30%.

Or you're rooted and they can get out of range that much faster.

Or cauterize is on cooldown (15 sec CD) and your snare only lasts 6 seconds at most.

 

There are so many better places to put those 2 skill points. Don't waste them on Inflammation.

[BriYL]

Plus a decent healer will dispel your cauterize. At which point both your slow and cauterize will have been removed at once...that's bad.

[Sniser]

I tried to don't use the 30% snare in the cauterize but I find it a must to have.

Why? Because it frees me a gdc.

Force leap + cauterize + zealous strike + overload saber + strike + merciless strike and by this time usually merciless strike will reset the cauterize or may I will need to use an slash but I can use again cauterize so the target is going to be snared again.

After this point I may use the snare if I want to use master strike but I can keep a target snared only using cauterize. which frees focus and gdc

[Morticoccus]

I would argue against taking this talent simply because of something I learned earlier, force leap acts as an interrupt in addition to all of its other effects so you're better off just running up to an enemy from his blind spot and leading with zealous strike, by doing this you can hit him once and then get off the cripple, then when he pops his knockback/stun and tries to kite you you can just jump to him with overload active for more face melting goodness.

[Xerain]

A dps loss on your target occurs when they're out of range of your attack.

Which is more likely when you're snared at 50% and they're only at 30%.

Or you're rooted and they can get out of range that much faster.

Or cauterize is on cooldown (15 sec CD) and your snare only lasts 6 seconds at most.

 

There are so many better places to put those 2 skill points. Don't waste them on Inflammation.

 

 

You should be trying to reset the CD of the attack to help boost dps on the target. The only time i'm not on someone is when i get stunned and they slowly run away, get knocked back (in which case my charge is up because i haven't blown it yet for that), or wait there is no or the 30% slow is plenty enough.

 

 

Plus a decent healer will dispel your cauterize. At which point both your slow and cauterize will have been removed at once...that's bad.

 

actually no not the way it works. The dispell hit's two debuffs, any two, so there isn't a 100% chance of this happening. You should have 4 debuffs on the healer anyways before doing anything.

 

1. The heal debuff

2. Rupture.

3. Ruptures slow.

4. Deadly saber

 

If you want to get into it i'd keep crippling slash on my bar to use for healers so this way it's harder for them to hit the more important things with their dispell

[besbin]

No way I would run with anything less than a 50% snare on my target. Not like watchman spec is designed to burst its target down in the first few global cooldowns anyway. Apply leg slash and you have basically written your target's death sentance. It may take a global cooldown longer but it is far more reliable.

 

Also, what happens when any alert tank/marauder applies his snare on you to peel you off his healer? Bye bye healer. Anything less than a 50% snare is unthinkable imo.

[Kalimist_]

Like already said a couple times, a 30% snare is pretty much useless.

[rakuenCallisto]

Guys you forget to realize the 50% from Leg Slash and 30% from the talent COMBINES into 80% slow/snare.

 

Do you realize how pwnface this is in WZs? It's brings them to a crawl.

 

When you lay down all your combos/focus and just need that last Master Strike tick to kill them? This enables you to lay down EVERYTHING, and then some.

 

It doesn't seem big, but in a 1v1 situation and trying to seal a kill - it's huge.

Edited March 6, 2012 by rakuenCallisto

[Kalimist_]

Guys you forget to realize the 50% from Leg Slash and 30% from the talent COMBINES into 80% slow/snare.

That is flat wrong. When someone is affected by several snares, only the strongest kicks in - snares NEVER stack. Do you even realise how ridiculous that would be?

[EasymodeX]

30% snare is more than sufficient for the vast majority of cases where you want to snare. And, you don't waste 10-25% of your attack time to apply it.

[JustinxDuff]

30% snare is more than sufficient for the vast majority of cases where you want to snare. And, you don't waste 10-25% of your attack time to apply it.

 

Pretty much this.

[Kalimist_]

30% snare is more than sufficient for the vast majority of cases where you want to snare. And, you don't waste 10-25% of your attack time to apply it.

30% is only viable as an AoE snare. There is only one single target snare in the game that is worse than the one of Cauterize, being Weaken Mind/Affliction with the Confound/Conspiring Force talent. So no, it is very rarely sufficient unless your opponents are almost always terrible players.

I mean if you really want it, go for it but while it sounds 'Ok' in theory, it's pretty bad in practice (you do know that Cauterize can just be dispelled, right?) - I won't get into another discussion with you by the way as it's pretty much pointless when you think a 30% snare for 6 seconds is enough for a melee class.

I can just say that you are so gonna fall flat on your nose once we get competitive PvP.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Kalimist_

[JustinxDuff]

30% is only viable as an AoE snare. There is only one single target snare in the game that is worse than the one of Cauterize, being Weaken Mind/Affliction with the Confound/Conspiring Force talent. So no, it is very rarely sufficient unless your opponents are almost always terrible players.

I mean if you really want it, go for it but while it sounds 'Ok' in theory, it's pretty bad in practice - I won't get into another discussion with you by the way as it's pretty much pointless when you think a 30% snare for 6 seconds is enough for a melee class.

I can just say that you are so gonna fall flat on your nose once we get competitive PvP.

 

30% is plenty..it seems you are the one playing it wrong. People do not get away from my sent unless I get chain CC'd

[Kalimist_]

30% is plenty..it seems you are the one playing it wrong. People do not get away from my sent unless I get chain CC'd

Then they suck, it's as simple as that. It must be your first MMO if you think a dispellable 30% snare is enough for a melee class.

[JustinxDuff]

Then they suck, it's as simple as that. It must be your first MMO if you think a dispellable 30% snare is enough for a melee class.

 

What class is going to get away from you besides a sorc? On top of that the only reason they can is because of their sprint. It's laughable to say that the people are "bad" on my server.

 

My damage output it high and more consistent without wasting a GCD on leg slash, sorry.

[Neithian]

I never spec into Inflammation. The reason being we already have multiple skills that slow or incapacitate anyone trying to run away from us. If you 1. Watch your positioning(Back to the wall/crates/poles) and 2. Don't use leap to get to people immediately(there are exceptions to the rule) and 3. Always use leg slash other players can literally never escape you,ever, unless they have stealth and have a dot cleanse up.

 

Sorcs sprinting away? Force Stasis. You got force pushed or knockedback? Force Leap. Slowed/Rooted? Force Camo+Resolute. Once you get used to following that you can disregard #3 of the above, I only use leg slash for players I know are skilled at kiting me now.

 

You can use leap, force camo, force stasis, pacify, etc. To lock down or catch up to people that cc you or knock you back. I'd much rather spend 2 focus(You have lots of focus if you use a good skill order/rotation) and get 2 talent points in something useful then spec into a weaker slow(20% less runspeed reduction) that is dispellable.

 

My 2 cents.

Edited March 6, 2012 by Neithian