I didn't mean to say that Rage is harder to play, generally speaking. What I was trying to say is that it's harder to utilize when facing great player/s as your mistakes can have more crucial consequences - so that it can be VERY unforgiving.

The thing is that most people think Rage is a "noob" spec while it isn't. In fact it is harder to play than Vengeance as you really have to watch your buffs and time your abilities in order to maximize your burst damage. It'd be an understatement to say that 90% of all Rage/Focus Juggs/Guardians fail to do so. Rage is somehow predictable for good players though, so you have to get the hang of using Smash in the right moments. BTT: In the end it's about personal preference. All three specs are viable. But I think once competitive PvP kicks in Rage will have some major problems as it will get a lot harder to efficiently use your burst damage against organized teams. On the other hand, Rage can still be deadly if you manage to establish a somehow unpredictable playstyle - imo that's the hardest part.

Then they suck, it's as simple as that. It must be your first MMO if you think a dispellable 30% snare is enough for a melee class.

30% is only viable as an AoE snare. There is only one single target snare in the game that is worse than the one of Cauterize, being Weaken Mind/Affliction with the Confound/Conspiring Force talent. So no, it is very rarely sufficient unless your opponents are almost always terrible players. I mean if you really want it, go for it but while it sounds 'Ok' in theory, it's pretty bad in practice (you do know that Cauterize can just be dispelled, right?) - I won't get into another discussion with you by the way as it's pretty much pointless when you think a 30% snare for 6 seconds is enough for a melee class. I can just say that you are so gonna fall flat on your nose once we get competitive PvP.

That is flat wrong. When someone is affected by several snares, only the strongest kicks in - snares NEVER stack. Do you even realise how ridiculous that would be?

Are you really that bigoted? It deals or rather can deal damage to multiple targets, but only to one target at a time/each 1.5 seconds. And this has absolutely nothing to do with the definition of AoE. It is single target damage. Period. And your math is fine and so on BUT assumes that you use Rebuke on cooldown (which is wrong, you will always have downtimes, be it only for a couple seconds) AND that it's always up for the full duration - smart enemies will just chain CC you and even in PuGs I'm at a point where it happens more often than you would think. But then again, there are large numbers of great players on my server. I'm done now. Explaining something to someone so undiscerning is really stressful.

Rebuke deals damage to a random (random as in who attacks you first after the continuous 1.5 cooldown) AND single target every 1.5 seconds. Enlighten me, what exactly is AoE about dealing damage to one target? Read, reflect and then act like a know-it-all. In case you didn't know: AoE = Area of Effect - AREA

Where exactly am I deluding myself? Alone the fact that you think Rebuke isn't single target damage shows who is deluded by simple game mechanics. I don't really know what you were trying to say or who you were talking to with the rest of your post - a fan of soliloquies?

That's not true. Even if you don't waste a single Rebuke (and at least 1-2 will always be wasted) you'll never get more than 30-40k out of it, and as the reflected damage only affects one target at a time, it is not really AoE. No one in this thread ever said that damage equals skill. Doesn't change the fact that there are a lot of windbags who say 700k isn't much of a problem while not a single one can actually prove it - the second part of your "argument" has already been stated like 10 times btw.

1. The guy above me said 700k "isn't even that high". Imo that is much much closer to everyday PuG than to "possible under the perfect circumstances". So yeah, he pretty much said that. 2. So 500k is average in your average zerg game with a pocket healer sticking to your *** 24/7 - what's that supposed to prove? And considering your overall stats... 7 medals, really? I even had 6-8 medals on my sentinel while leveling 90% of the time. But damage is more important, amirite? 3. I have full BM gear, Valor rank 69 right now. And I say 700k isn't possible unless you have someone healing you all the time AND the enemy teams lacks damage. 4. Everything you said is pretty much invalid since you tried to make a point with a screenshot of a game in which you had your own personal healer + the enemy team was 2:1 outmatched in both damage and healing. 5. So you are trying to tell me/us that you take a screenshot entitled "500kMatch" but you don't take one of you doing 700k+ 'cause you don't have to push your epeen? Yeah right, very believable.

I think first off we can agree that damage has nothing to do with the quality of a player. Secondly the fact remains that claiming something without being able to prove it, is being a blowhard. Because it is single target damage. Show me a screenshot then, shouldn't be so hard to find huh? Under very rare circumstances (uncommon enemy team composition + having a pocket healer) it surely is possible but in your everyday PuG? I don't think so.

What's the point of this thread? What's the point in saying "I did more damage/700k" without proving it? Questions over questions. I'd really like to see a screenshot of a Watchman/Anni Sentinel/Marauder doing 700k+ damage, even in Voidstar. I played against a team once that pretty much just contained healers and I still didn't break the 700k - I probably could have done it with a pocket healer of my own but that'd be beside the point anyway. Let's review the facts: - You did more than 700k damage once - 500k is average for you - you don't feel the need to boost your "epeen" Gotta love the contrariety.

Like already said a couple times, a 30% snare is pretty much useless.

WoW Rogues are underpowered? I mean.. really? I keep wondering what makes people come up with nonsense like this. There was a short time in TBC where rogues had small problems but other than that, they have almost always been #1 amongst all melee classes - that is, in competitive PvP.

Ehm.. no? The worldwide top 10 of 3v3 (which obviously counts most) has been 90% caster cleave/RMP/RLS since s7. Or are you referring to the Shadowmourne - DK/Warr + 2 Heal timeframe? That was just bad game design with a weapon being borderline overpowered. Warriors were great at the start of TBC, had major problems in S6 and have been great ever since - but they never dominated the competitive scene. How about you get your facts straight and come back? Yes, there have been melee comps to win major tournaments (Blizzcon, ESL etc.) but maybe you should re-check the meaning of "domination".

I would never deny the first part. But while they were beastly (looking at season 5+6), they were never stronger or more viable than any of WoWs ranged classes. They were/are just much easier to play. The only melee class that's always on a par with the ranged classes would be the rogue.

You know what "p2p" means? Apart from that, while GW was a great MMO considering the time it was released, it has never been competitive or challenging.

Nothing to do with the actual topic, just need to quote something out of the closed thread. How can one play that much PvP while being so oblivious of the most generic PvP conditions? There has never been a noteworthy MMO with competitive PvP (not saying that the PvP in ToR is even close to being competitive) where melee classes could outperform range classes. It is either more or less balanced or the other way around, always. Accusing others of being wrong and bad while being so clueless at the time... that's some attitude. You are so gonna be a part of the average-player society once competitive PvP kicks in.

Not saying that you're wrong but crying about unbalancement in a rather new MMORPG is just pointless - did you ever play a big p2p MMO within its first months before? I have seen a LOT worse cases, believe me. I actually have high hopes for ToR and think that it will perform extremely well once it is balanced out. IMO getting chain cc'ed is not as bad as getting RNG oneshotted by a Vanilla Ret.

You shouldn't have many downtimes with Kira or T7 either - they are absolute beasts in this level range (if geared correctly) and you can easily solo H2+ quests with either of them. The first time I noticed Doc to be noticeable more time efficient was actually in the early 40s on Belsavis. Before that it's just about how much you dislike downtimes.

Utter nonsense. There are only a few classes or to be more specific, a few specs that really have the potential to 1v1 a similar geared healer (Annihilation/Watchman Maras/Sentinels being the best example) - well, maybe with the exception of Scoundrel/Op because they really suck overall right now. If the healer has similar gear and knows what he's doing, it would already extinguish even the idea of competitive PvP if it'd be possible to easily kill him in a 1v1. Healers are rare and most are horrible, additionally fakecasting is still a complete alien concept for the majority and because of that so many think that it's possible to just stomp a healer.

It's true that it's justified that Snipers/Slingers complain about the mechanic of their class, i.e. cover. The problem is that they are absolutely brutal when played right and you can't really just remove the whole mechanic.. it's a tricky subject. BTT: I think it is safe to say that Juggs/Guardians are lackluster right now. They're not bad but some small tweaks are definitely needed.

Battlemaster Slinger, Rank 63. There are pretty much two classes that give me any kind of trouble, being Powertech/Vanguard and Assassin/Shadow and that only if they use every single cooldown on me. Do you play one yourself or are you but one of many who actually believe that a pure SS spec is useful for anything more than stomping bads? Try a SS/Sab Hybrid spec and come back to me with that LoS argument 'cause I couldn't care less.

Well.. always keep her gear updated. You might even wanna try respeccing to Immortal (since you are 36 it's already very viable) and with good gear Vette will dish out some good damage + you'll generally have a much easier time - that is, if you really are too lazy to rest after a fight (; I kept Vette the whole time as a Vengeance Jugg and I had no problems at all. Sure, you can't do H2 quests alone but that's extremely hard for a Jugg anyway. EDIT: Seems like I misunderstood your post. As a Marauder Quinn is imo the best choice but if you really want to keep Vette (like I did) it shouldn't be a problem either. What spec are you using? Annihilation makes things much easier.

Idk what you're even trying to say with your "setup an enemy", doesn't really make sense. All I can see is, that you start complaining and stating things as facts while you lack understanding of the entire class and furthermore you don't even know how Ravage can be utilized with Carnage. I suggest you get your facts straight next time before you start complaining about something you don't understand. The reason you rarely see any Marauders/Sentinels using it is simple: Annihilation/Watchman is the new fotm and as I said, it really doesn't harmonise with this spec. Well.. Sniper/Slinger is EASILY one of the top classes right now. The problem is just that many people have problems with the cover mechanic but if you want to change that you'd have to change the whole playstyle which isn't an option either - very tricky.