No more color restrictions on crystals ?! Really ?

[Mannic]

There already wasn't restrictions on colors other than red/blue/green, and even then there was a bunch you could get that weren't restricted.

 

Yup. My full light-side Sin has been using a red double-bladed saber since she got her first Cent saber.

[Toonimator]

Though options are always nice, I will be sad to lose some of the uniqueness I have gained on some of my characters by mixing light/dark colors on a few of my toons. It was always fun to watch folks do a double-take on my smuggler having a both red and a blue pistol for instance.

 

Guess the only reason to go light or dark now is the sith corruption effect.

There's still Light/Dark gear, is there not?

 

People have been demanding Neutral gear, and some is supposed to be on the way, so a red/blue Smuggler isn't particularly unique (or won't be, after the neutral thing alone goes into effect, regardless of the state of color crystals).

 

This thread blew up, so forgive me for not reading all 25 pages. I made it through at least a third of them, tho!

 

Everyone's already established the excellent point that the color crystal restrictions are absolutely RIDICULOUS for the non-Force classes. We see green, blue, and red blaster bolts from good guys AND bad guys throughout the films, and other EU (games, etc).

 

Sabers, same thing. The Sith MOSTLY use red, but there are some monumental exceptions (Vader during Order 66, Exar Kun who is one of the first major EU Sith Lords, Darth Krayt who ran the galaxy for several years in LEGACY, tho admittedly he only branched out of the 'red-only' phase after his first 'death' at the hands of Wyyrlok)

 

We've also got plenty of EU instances of squarely light-side Jedi using red in the EU. Adi Gallia started off with red. Leia had a red blade at one point, I think. Pretty sure Luke had some students using red blades in the early days of the Academy, and maybe into NJO-era too.

 

But most of all, we have the movies! In the OT, we had THREE saber-wielding individuals. Luke & Obi-Wan had blue blades (Luke's was more white in ANH because of the problematic effects, but that was also likely due to wear over time). Vader had red. Then Luke makes a green one. AND THE GREEN ONE IS ONLY BECAUSE BLUE DIDN'T WORK WITH THE SKY BEHIND IT! So right there you've got a real-world issue dictating the color of a blade. The lore constructed around it doesn't support or deny the idea of color being limited or not.

 

Cut to 16 years later, Episode I. Again, only 3 saber-users in the film. Obi-Wan uses blue because that's what we associate him with. Qui-Gon uses green, so the Jedi aren't exactly alike. Maul has red, because we're used to the bad guy having red. It makes it work for people that are only casual fans; it provides a link to the originals. The EU and Hasbro went nuts giving Plo Koon an orange or yellow saber, Adi Gallia red, Ki-Adi-Mundi and Saesee Tiin purple, and ol' Mace only had a blue! Then AOTC comes along, and EVERY Jedi but Mace has blue or green.

 

But what the proponents of the color restrictions are forgetting is that this is the Saga. When the Jedi Order is stagnant, excessively dogmatic, and on the decline. Their connection to the Force is weaker, clouded by the dark side. They're all uptight sticks-in-the-mud.

 

Why should the stagnant Jedi Order of the Prequels dictate what saber colors are available to whom in TOR which takes place over 3000 years BEFORE the films, when previous EU for decades--including Bioware's own KOTOR--has had saber color be more of a personal preference among Jedi AND Sith in that era?

[Sernon]

Colors are just as meaningful as the purpose behind them. With the purpose in doubt, the next thing is seen in the same light, and then the next and then the next. Until there are no colors left, only shades of gray, and gone are any hint of night or day.

 

---

[Lord_Scythe]

I find it funny how people keep quoting canon to keep the crystal restrictions.

 

Hate to tell everyone but the Star Wars universe is not just the six movies and the games KOTOR I and II. There are a plethora of official books authorized by Lucas Arts. These books have Sith and Jedi using an array of unique saber colors.

 

Ordinary NPC Sith should only use red saber colors because that was what is readily available. Ordinary NPC Jedi should only use green/blue sabers because those are the most common color crystals available to them.

 

PC's are heroes of the universe and should be able to use any color they choose.

 

Here is a list of saber colors and where they appeared.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber_crystal

[JediElf]

Apparently, you're not much of a Star Wars fan.

 

Color has-never-been-nor-will-it-ever-be restricted to morality. Lucas himself has confirmed that there is no direct link. The only lore basis for the restrictions was that, in the time of TPM, AotC etc., Sith couldn't get their hands on natural crystal supplies, and had to use synthetic crystals. Synth crystals (Luke used a synth crystal in RotJ, too, btw) are created by channeling the force through a forge. In the case of darksiders, this creates a crimson-red crystal... but not all synth crystals are red -- nor are all the sabers of Sith red. Certainly, the fact that the Sith in the TOR timeline favor purple just as much as red is proof of this.

 

Frankly, the limits in TOR make absolutely no sense as implemented in the game. They neither preserve the 'look' of the films, nor do they have any basis in the lore. You would argue that color is tied to morality as if picking up a green or a blue saber as a darksider would cause it to explode in my hand. Even in the films, time and again we are shown that darksiders can use 'light' colors (Anakin/Vader with blue throughout Ep. III, Vader ignited Luke's green saber in Ep. VI). Similarly, lightsiders can use red... as in the case of Anakin picking up Dooku's saber to finish him off with.

 

***

 

HI THAR. MY NAME IZ EXAR KUN, ONE OF THE MOST BAD-*** SITH LORDS OF ALL TIMES (YOU CAN TELL SINC I USE ALL CAPS TO POST). I'D JUS LIK 2 JUMP IN HERE AND POINT OUT DAT I USED A BLUE SABRE. TY. DATS ALL I WANTED. <3 TO MY HOMIES IN EMPIR.

 

***

 

Thanks, Exar.

 

Getting back on topic, the simple fact of the matter is, there is no canonical basis or otherwise for the current crystal restrictions. They were, quite literally, something Bioware conjured out of thin air. And, what's worse, they don't even preserve the look of the films, instead forcing many Jedi to abandon green/blue, and many Sith to forsake red. If you wanted to see more Sith using red, and more Jedi using green/blue as in the films, you should actually support dropping the restrictions.

 

As it stands now, I believe you simply don't understand either the lore or the system we've got in game.

 

--------------------------------

 

Just wanted to tack this on from later in the thread. This is how TOR's current restrictions would look if applied to Star Wars.

 

*I take you now to the famous Temple Slaughter scene from Ep. III. Anakin is boldly walking up the Jedi Temple stairs, flanked by an army of clone troopers. He approaches the door, reaches into his robes, pulls out his blue saber, and prepares to ignite it when...

 

... nothing happens?*

 

Clone trooper #1: Ruh-roh!

 

Clone trooper #3: He's got er... troubles 'getting it up,' I guess?

 

Clone trooper #1: Man, that's gotta create some tension in the sack with him and Padmomma or whatever.

 

Clone trooper #2: Hehe... be quiet, I want to hear this.

 

[Anakin COMM] Master, I have run into some issues.

 

*The clones snicker.*

 

[sidious COMM] What is it, my young apprentice? Are the Jedi dead? Is the temple aflame?

 

[Anakin COMM] No, master my... lightsaber won't turn on.

 

*More clone laughter.*

 

[sidious COMM] Oh, I forgot to tell you. You can't use that lightsaber anymore because you're a bad guy now. Big oopsies on my part. Come back to my office and I'll give you a red crystal.

 

*Anakin leaves in a huff.*

 

Clone trooper #1: Ciggy break! AFK!

 

Clone trooper #2: Hehe... stupid sith.

 

Clone trooper #3: Shut up, dude... any more darkside points and you won't be able to use that blaster anymore.

 

+100

 

This is the most entertaining post I've ever read.

 

^_^

[Durasturan]

I barely post but since most people who post are here to complain about things, I'll do the same.

 

My current state right now

 

I am playing a Star Wars game and one thing that was iconic to the franchise is definitely the color of crystals tied to the alignment of its user.

Whether it is actually a restriction in the lore of Star Wars or not, doesn't matter.

What matters is that it is how it is, and all haters have now managed to make Bioware change it.

 

Couldn't you just go along with it ? It's been like this for YEARS in Star Wars and just because some kids don't like it "oh noes y me no haz red lightsaber???", Bioware is changing something iconic to the serie.

 

Now, what is done is done and I am not going to go on a crusade like some of you did to change it back.

 

Bioware, you were doing a great job and are still doing the great job. I will likely continue to play this game. However, please don't cave in to whatever stupid requests your community has. You are the developer, with experience in studying, designing and developing games. I trust your judgment and the community should as well.

 

No, this is not lore. There have been light side users that use red and dark side users that use green. You are only considering the movies and not the actual lore of the period that this game is about. you are wrong and should have done more research before you posted.

[Cancrizans]

Not sure why any crystals should be limited to a specific side. I'm pretty sure Anakin was using a blue crystal when he was officially dark side.

 

Also... if we're going to follow lore... how come we can't switch sides? How come we can't start as Jedi and switch to Sith... then go back through redemption?

 

How come I can't swim?

 

How come BH's can't fly high?

 

How come I respawn when I die?

 

How come I don't have to eat?

 

How come...?

 

How come...?

 

How come...?

 

Seriously, it's a change to bring balance to both sides. When one side has something cooler, it's not fair. Why don't you worry more about content being more challenging and less buggy and spend a little less time worrying about what color crystal some other guy has...

 

I don't even get this argument...that is like saying in WoW, we need to give Horde and Alliance all the same races because it is unfair that Horde can make Tauren and Alliance cannot or whatever.

 

I don't want to play the kind of game you describe, where the differences between the different factions become fewer and fewer because every time some people come and whine on the forums that "that dies get's X cool item and we don't!" the devs cave in and change things.

 

As I said, there is NOTHING preventing either faction in this game from using any crystal they want. It is an ALIGNMENT restriction. Therefore complaining about faction imbalance is just stupid.

 

If the reality of this change allows light side red and dark side green/blue, it will be nothing but Bioware caving into forum brats, and tbh it will be a very bad decision on their part, IMO one that will make a mockery out of the game. This is stuff you do when games are falling apart, not when they just launched.

[G_Vega]

Apparently, you're not much of a Star Wars fan.

 

Color has-never-been-nor-will-it-ever-be restricted to morality. Lucas himself has confirmed that there is no direct link. The only lore basis for the restrictions was that, in the time of TPM, AotC etc., Sith couldn't get their hands on natural crystal supplies, and had to use synthetic crystals. Synth crystals (Luke used a synth crystal in RotJ, too, btw) are created by channeling the force through a forge. In the case of darksiders, this creates a crimson-red crystal... but not all synth crystals are red -- nor are all the sabers of Sith red. Certainly, the fact that the Sith in the TOR timeline favor purple just as much as red is proof of this.

 

Frankly, the limits in TOR make absolutely no sense as implemented in the game. They neither preserve the 'look' of the films, nor do they have any basis in the lore. You would argue that color is tied to morality as if picking up a green or a blue saber as a darksider would cause it to explode in my hand. Even in the films, time and again we are shown that darksiders can use 'light' colors (Anakin/Vader with blue throughout Ep. III, Vader ignited Luke's green saber in Ep. VI). Similarly, lightsiders can use red... as in the case of Anakin picking up Dooku's saber to finish him off with.

 

***

 

HI THAR. MY NAME IZ EXAR KUN, ONE OF THE MOST BAD-*** SITH LORDS OF ALL TIMES (YOU CAN TELL SINC I USE ALL CAPS TO POST). I'D JUS LIK 2 JUMP IN HERE AND POINT OUT DAT I USED A BLUE SABRE. TY. DATS ALL I WANTED. <3 TO MY HOMIES IN EMPIR.

 

***

 

Thanks, Exar.

 

Getting back on topic, the simple fact of the matter is, there is no canonical basis or otherwise for the current crystal restrictions. They were, quite literally, something Bioware conjured out of thin air. And, what's worse, they don't even preserve the look of the films, instead forcing many Jedi to abandon green/blue, and many Sith to forsake red. If you wanted to see more Sith using red, and more Jedi using green/blue as in the films, you should actually support dropping the restrictions.

 

As it stands now, I believe you simply don't understand either the lore or the system we've got in game.

 

--------------------------------

 

Just wanted to tack this on from later in the thread. This is how TOR's current restrictions would look if applied to Star Wars.

 

*I take you now to the famous Temple Slaughter scene from Ep. III. Anakin is boldly walking up the Jedi Temple stairs, flanked by an army of clone troopers. He approaches the door, reaches into his robes, pulls out his blue saber, and prepares to ignite it when...

 

... nothing happens?*

 

Clone trooper #1: Ruh-roh!

 

Clone trooper #3: He's got er... troubles 'getting it up,' I guess?

 

Clone trooper #1: Man, that's gotta create some tension in the sack with him and Padmomma or whatever.

 

Clone trooper #2: Hehe... be quiet, I want to hear this.

 

[Anakin COMM] Master, I have run into some issues.

 

*The clones snicker.*

 

[sidious COMM] What is it, my young apprentice? Are the Jedi dead? Is the temple aflame?

 

[Anakin COMM] No, master my... lightsaber won't turn on.

 

*More clone laughter.*

 

[sidious COMM] Oh, I forgot to tell you. You can't use that lightsaber anymore because you're a bad guy now. Big oopsies on my part. Come back to my office and I'll give you a red crystal.

 

*Anakin leaves in a huff.*

 

Clone trooper #1: Ciggy break! AFK!

 

Clone trooper #2: Hehe... stupid sith.

 

Clone trooper #3: Shut up, dude... any more darkside points and you won't be able to use that blaster anymore.

 

+1

 

Great Post

[Cancrizans]

I find it funny how people keep quoting canon to keep the crystal restrictions.

 

Hate to tell everyone but the Star Wars universe is not just the six movies and the games KOTOR I and II. There are a plethora of official books authorized by Lucas Arts. These books have Sith and Jedi using an array of unique saber colors.

 

Ordinary NPC Sith should only use red saber colors because that was what is readily available. Ordinary NPC Jedi should only use green/blue sabers because those are the most common color crystals available to them.

 

PC's are heroes of the universe and should be able to use any color they choose.

 

Here is a list of saber colors and where they appeared.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber_crystal

 

More like a plethora of outlandish stories written to make bank off the Star Wars franchise.

[Liathan]

I'll give you there's sort of a reason for jedis and sith to have the crystal's restricted, but there's no reason for troopers, smugglers, agents, or hounty hunters to have the color of their crystal restricted.

[Lord_Scythe]

I'll give you there's sort of a reason for jedis and sith to have the crystal's restricted, but there's no reason for troopers, smugglers, agents, or hounty hunters to have the color of their crystal restricted.

 

There is no reason for Jedi or Sith to be restricted either.

[Lord_Scythe]

More like a plethora of outlandish stories written to make bank off the Star Wars franchise.

 

Regardless of the reason for the books, heroes in them get unique color crystals there is no reason for TOR heroes aka PCs to choose their own colors either!

[Liathan]

There is no reason for Jedi or Sith to be restricted either.

 

meh, lore?

[Cancrizans]

I won't even get into the debate about "cannon"(oh wow, Lucas signed off on a bunch of stuff to make money, and that makes it real, whatever), the simple fact is that IN THIS GAME we need something to separate and give character to the two alignments. The color crystals are the MAIN, and in fact only really distinctive, way to do this.

 

Removing the restrictions will just make a huge mess, destroy the identity of alignments as it has been established in the game, and frankly reflect poorly on both Bioware's will to make the game what they want it to be, and their priorities.

[Cancrizans]

meh, lore?

 

Don't bother, they will keep hammering you with nonsense out of those book for profit rehashed gimmick novels they call canon these days.

[Shinybum]

So, looking at it in terms of internal consistency...

 

1. Jedi with red lightsabers are going to have a lot of trouble, so it's in their interests to hide any Dark Side affiliation. Deceit is very much the way of the Dark Side, after all. Just look at Darth Sidious, hidden in plain sight for how many years? He may not have used a lightsabre, but he did a fine job of hiding that Sith Corruption.

 

2. A Sith with Light leanings is going to find themselves dead pretty quickly if they show up waving a green blade. Camouflage is a survival issue for them - why else would the Revanites be holed up in a shambling camp in the backwoods of Dromund Kaas, despite the mention of powerful, high-profile members?

 

3. All the pretty colours come from natural crystals. Ilum is an excellent source of these. THE EMPIRE HAS A BASE THERE!!!

 

4. Natural crystals have a better affinity with the Force than artificial ones. If the Sith have access to natural crystals via the aforementioned presence on Ilum, why are they going to use the inferior artificial crystals when they don't have to?

 

5. The colours I'll call "Non-standard" for the sake of this post have been described as the mark of exceptional people. By the time you finish your class story I think it's safe to say that you count as pretty darned exceptional.

 

But you want canon? Here:

 

 

If the vendor doesn't come I won't shed tears, but if it does you bet I'll be swapping pink for purple.

[Lord_Scythe]

I won't even get into the debate about "cannon"(oh wow, Lucas signed off on a bunch of stuff to make money, and that makes it real, whatever), the simple fact is that IN THIS GAME we need something to separate and give character to the two alignments. The color crystals are the MAIN, and in fact only really distinctive, way to do this.

 

Removing the restrictions will just make a huge mess, destroy the identity of alignments as it has been established in the game, and frankly reflect poorly on both Bioware's will to make the game what they want it to be, and their priorities.

 

LOL your logic is failing. Light side Sith can use blue and and dark Jedi can use red. How does this differentiate the sides?

 

I guess the fact that Republic have green name tags and the Empire have red when pvp is on. This is not distinctive enough for you? How about Huttball where factions can be mixed?

 

Your logic is a very big fail!

[owenthorn]

lucas "allows" those to be written, because he gets paid, it doesn't and never will be law that lucas must abide by, it does not dictate what you can and cannot do in the game, or with the game, color restriction never made any sense, BW is fixing that, go QQ elsewhere

[Cancrizans]

By the time you finish your class story I think it's safe to say that you count as pretty darned exceptional.

 

Ya you and every other player in the game.

[Shinybum]

Ya you and every other player in the game.

 

That was rather my point.

 

ETA: That's a story headache for later, though, and I don't envy the writer attempting to contextualise it in terms of the greater communtiy.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Shinybum

[Cancrizans]

LOL your logic is failing. Light side Sith can use blue and and dark Jedi can use red. How does this differentiate the sides?

 

I guess the fact that Republic have green name tags and the Empire have red when pvp is on. This is not distinctive enough for you? How about Huttball where factions can be mixed?

 

Your logic is a very big fail!

 

If you even bothered to read my post you would notice I said TO DIFFERENTIATE ALIGNMENTS, not to differentiate FACTIONS.

 

It is your reading comprehension that is a very big fail.

[bahdasz]

this is about the stupidest/lamest thing in the whole game to complain about, hands down.

[Cancrizans]

Your "Iconic" argument got shot out the window according to George('S AGENTS WHO ADVISED HIM HE COULD MAKE A LOT MORE MONEY BY GIVING THE WRITERS OF THOSE LAME AFTERTHOUGHT BOOKS GREATER LICENSE TO DO WTH THEY WANTED) before the game even launched.

 

The skywalker must really be falling for you if all it takes is a colored sabre restriction being lifted. I'd say BW is doing a fine job of controlling their own game- you just dont care for the decision(s).

 

Fixed area in BOLD LETTERS.

[Bonezmccoy]

My Sith will use Red or Purple.

My Jedi will use Blue or Green or Purple.

 

You can do whatever the bloody blue blazes you bloody well want.

 

It's *canon* and *fact* that the limitations are cultural and resource related, as can be seen in so many of the wookiepedia links in this thread. That means if you can use it, you can use it. Real simple. I will adhere to they archetype because I'm a SW nerd and a fan of the concept. It adds to the feel of the game and storyline for me, even though I'm not an RP-er.

 

I don't give a rip what everyone else does, and I am glad Bioware is opening up the choice for people. If somebody wants to RP a fallen Jedi padawan who became a slave who became a Sith (Inquisitor) - then by all means, rock out with your blue out.

 

This, as the only negative to the decision, makes faction changes less interesting. If Bioware ever allows faction changes (and I hope they do so not just with a fee, but a fee and a HUGE personal story arc / quest chain), then saber color could be interesting. It could be an identifier of those who have changed sides, if the changer chose to show off their colors.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Bonezmccoy

[Cancrizans]

All I can say is I am going to laugh really hard when all these Impies in their badarse looking outfits come running at me waving blue and green lightsabers in Voidstar. Edited March 2, 2012 by Cancrizans