No more color restrictions on crystals ?! Really ?

[Tuscad]

He took a new name and a new light saber. It makes sense he pretty much gave up on being Anakin ever again. He was Vader and Vader used red.

 

It was a choice he made.

 

Yeah it does make sense, I am just stating a minor possibility.

[Vecke]

I'd very much like to see evidence of that.

 

If we go by Lucas, there would only be red, blue, and green (with Purple being very, very rare).

 

I remember when Jackson was on a talk show promoting one of the movies, he said that took the role on two conditions: 1. Mace doesn't go out "like a punk" and 2. He gets a purple lightsaber. He said (IIRC) Lucas said no to purple at first, saying there are three colors: blue and green for good guys, and red for bad guys. Jackson persisted and Lucas gave in to the purple.

 

Far as I know, that's all Lucas has said on it. I seem to recall (although can't remember where) that when asked if Anakin's saber would turn red in Episode 3, Lucas' answer was, "They're lightsabers, not mood rings."

 

So really, Lucas doesn't care about saber colors all that much in the EU, since we have a variety of colors beyond the main three.

 

That said, I don't care if another player uses a jedi with a red saber. If it makes them have more fun, good for them. This is 3000 years before the movies in a reality completely invented by Bioware. I think I can manage an in-continuity explanation easily enough, if nothing more than the fact that this is a full on war. If my character sees Jedi with red sabers, he'd probably just assume they're using one they took from a fallen Sith.

 

Myself, I only use green/blue for good and red for evil because I enjoy fitting what I've seen in the movies. I really don't care what other people do though.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Apparently, you're not much of a Star Wars fan.

 

Color has-never-been-nor-will-it-ever-be restricted to morality. Lucas himself has confirmed that there is no direct link. The only lore basis for the restrictions was that, in the time of TPM, AotC etc., Sith couldn't get their hands on natural crystal supplies, and had to use synthetic crystals. Synth crystals (Luke used a synth crystal in RotJ, too, btw) are created by channeling the force through a forge. In the case of darksiders, this creates a crimson-red crystal... but not all synth crystals are red -- nor are all the sabers of Sith red. Certainly, the fact that the Sith in the TOR timeline favor purple just as much as red is proof of this.

 

Frankly, the limits in TOR make absolutely no sense as implemented in the game. They neither preserve the 'look' of the films, nor do they have any basis in the lore. You would argue that color is tied to morality as if picking up a green or a blue saber as a darksider would cause it to explode in my hand. Even in the films, time and again we are shown that darksiders can use 'light' colors (Anakin/Vader with blue throughout Ep. III, Vader ignited Luke's green saber in Ep. VI). Similarly, lightsiders can use red... as in the case of Anakin picking up Dooku's saber to finish him off with.

 

***

 

HI THAR. MY NAME IZ EXAR KUN, ONE OF THE MOST BAD-*** SITH LORDS OF ALL TIMES (YOU CAN TELL SINC I USE ALL CAPS TO POST). I'D JUS LIK 2 JUMP IN HERE AND POINT OUT DAT I USED A BLUE SABRE. TY. DATS ALL I WANTED. <3 TO MY HOMIES IN EMPIR.

 

***

 

Thanks, Exar.

 

Getting back on topic, the simple fact of the matter is, there is no canonical basis or otherwise for the current crystal restrictions. They were, quite literally, something Bioware conjured out of thin air. And, what's worse, they don't even preserve the look of the films, instead forcing many Jedi to abandon green/blue, and many Sith to forsake red. If you wanted to see more Sith using red, and more Jedi using green/blue as in the films, you should actually support dropping the restrictions.

 

As it stands now, I believe you simply don't understand either the lore or the system we've got in game.

 

--------------------------------

 

Just wanted to tack this on from later in the thread. This is how TOR's current restrictions would look if applied to Star Wars.

 

*I take you now to the famous Temple Slaughter scene from Ep. III. Anakin is boldly walking up the Jedi Temple stairs, flanked by an army of clone troopers. He approaches the door, reaches into his robes, pulls out his blue saber, and prepares to ignite it when...

 

... nothing happens?*

 

Clone trooper #1: Ruh-roh!

 

Clone trooper #3: He's got er... troubles 'getting it up,' I guess?

 

Clone trooper #1: Man, that's gotta create some tension in the sack with him and Padmomma or whatever.

 

Clone trooper #2: Hehe... be quiet, I want to hear this.

 

[Anakin COMM] Master, I have run into some issues.

 

*The clones snicker.*

 

[sidious COMM] What is it, my young apprentice? Are the Jedi dead? Is the temple aflame?

 

[Anakin COMM] No, master my... lightsaber won't turn on.

 

*More clone laughter.*

 

[sidious COMM] Oh, I forgot to tell you. You can't use that lightsaber anymore because you're a bad guy now. Big oopsies on my part. Come back to my office and I'll give you a red crystal.

 

*Anakin leaves in a huff.*

 

Clone trooper #1: Ciggy break! AFK!

 

Clone trooper #2: Hehe... stupid sith.

 

Clone trooper #3: Shut up, dude... any more darkside points and you won't be able to use that blaster anymore.

 

Thanks for adding facts, hopefully this will keep people from raging over "colors" and with facts no less.

[Dragunslayer]

Just gonna leave this little snippet from a post I made in another thread right here:

 

If you really wanna argue Lore then: Consulars, you're restricted to green; Sentinels, you can only use yellow; and Guardians, blue only for you. Why? Because that's how it is according to the Lore.

 

The colors of the sabers were determined by the crystals used and nothing more.

 

The main reason Green and Blue were commonly used by Jedi was because that was a common color for most natural crystals to give off. Other colors were more rare but it was not unheard of for Jedi as well as Sith to use other colors.

 

The reason Sith use primarily Red is because their crystals are synthetic and the default color on them is red UNLESS the creator manipulates the crystal during it's creation using the force to result in another color, just as Luke manipulated his to a green color when he created his second saber.

[deags]

He took a new name and a new light saber. It makes sense he pretty much gave up on being Anakin ever again. He was Vader and Vader used red.

 

It was a choice he made.

 

he was Lord Vader shortly after killing Windu, then went onto sacking the jedi temple, killing kids and going to fight Obiwan as Vader while using his blue lightsaber.

[Tuscad]

People...it's not a freaking switch. Of course he was still using that saber, until he had time to craft one of his own which...wait for it, turns out to be RED, lol.

 

It isn't a personal choice, and the MOUNTAINS of evidence are against each and everyone of you, no matter how much you wish it to be otherwise.

 

You are the one in denial, Palpatine had 3 red lightsabers not just crystals that he could have given Darth Vader, but he did not. Darth Vader led the assualt on the Jedi Temple he had time to switch since he and the clones would initiate the conflict. Therefore it is a personal choice.

[Sylriana]

Where does it say? How about in Attack of the Clones where the entire Jedi army is wielding Green or Blue sabers?

 

You're reaching.

 

It isn't a personal choice, and the MOUNTAINS of evidence are against each and everyone of you, no matter how much you wish it to be otherwise.

 

There's a significant difference between presenting hard evidence and drawing conclusions from observations (especially when examples of exceptions have been presented).

 

 

This argument does provide some interesting speculation into how righteous the rebel alliance really was ( especially since you couldn't be an imperial gunner if you weren't at least light 1! )

Edited March 2, 2012 by Sylriana

[Gauvi]

I already said I am not going to keep arguing with all of you who wanted the change. I guess it is good for you and I respect that.

 

I only needed to complain so Bioware could see it, you won't begrudge me for that since you all complained about this restriction for the past several weeks.

 

Honestly though, trying to find references to some characters (such as Exar Kun) who used a blue lightsaber despite being Sith, and try to make him look like the norm across the entire Star Wars universe when he was clearly one of the very few exceptions, that's just bad argument.

[Tuscad]

no when willing to make the choice to kill kids he was clearly already very much into the darkside.

 

Yes I know that.

[Shrekmom]

Blue lightsaber killed younglings at the onset of Order 66. Whats important is the person behind it, not the color.

 

As we already have red / green nametag above our head, faction restriction isn't needed either.

 

And he used it on Mustafar killing the Separatist Council witch must had him go futher down the dark tree and still had it when he fights Obi-Wan Kenobi just to add some more and he was a Darth on all the senarios so think you cant go whit red as canon for Sith only (not meant for the one i quoted)

 

For Jedi not using red is probely only since its associated whit the dark side so why would a Jedi use it and be accused of being dark would just make things harder and probely take alot of time to explaine everytime they need to use it

[Tuscad]

Darth Sidious who had a spare hidden in the statue in his senate office.

 

Edit: I believe the statue held 3. One of them was on Sidious when Mace and the other Jedi walked in to arrest him of course.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine's_lightsaber

[Kanshan]

 

*I take you now to the famous Temple Slaughter scene from Ep. III. Anakin is boldly walking up the Jedi Temple stairs, flanked by an army of clone troopers. He approaches the door, reaches into his robes, pulls out his blue saber, and prepares to ignite it when...

 

... nothing happens?*

 

Clone trooper #1: Ruh-roh!

 

Clone trooper #3: He's got er... troubles 'getting it up,' I guess?

 

Clone trooper #1: Man, that's gotta create some tension in the sack with him and Padmomma or whatever.

 

Clone trooper #2: Hehe... be quiet, I want to hear this.

 

[Anakin COMM] Master, I have run into some issues.

 

*The clones snicker.*

 

[sidious COMM] What is it, my young apprentice? Are the Jedi dead? Is the temple aflame?

 

[Anakin COMM] No, master my... lightsaber won't turn on.

 

*More clone laughter.*

 

[sidious COMM] Oh, I forgot to tell you. You can't use that lightsaber anymore because you're a bad guy now. Big oopsies on my part. Come back to my office and I'll give you a red crystal.

 

*Anakin leaves in a huff.*

 

Clone trooper #1: Ciggy break! AFK!

 

Clone trooper #2: Hehe... stupid sith.

 

Clone trooper #3: Shut up, dude... any more darkside points and you won't be able to use that blaster anymore.

 

+1

This is cool.

[Cerion]

You are the one in denial, Palpatine had 3 red lightsabers not just crystals that he could have given Darth Vader, but he did not. Darth Vader led the assualt on the Jedi Temple he had time to switch since he and the clones would initiate the conflict. Therefore it is a personal choice.

 

Is Palpatine going to give up his back up sabers? No. lol. And this gets back to the lore point that sabers are MOST effective for those who constructed them. (and yes, people of all persuasions can pick and use a saber, but not as effectively).

 

So why would Anakin choose to discard the saber he was, at that time, attuned with? Point is, he eventually took a red saber, as every darkside force user does.

 

If it were a personal choice, why didn't Palpatine have blue or green sabers? If they were discovered, he could better easily explain having them. But no. He had red sabers as well..because that is how it works in the canonical films.

[Tuscad]

Is Palpatine going to give up his back up sabers? No. lol. And this gets back to the lore point that sabers are MOST effective for those who constructed them. (and yes, people of all persuasions can pick and use a saber, but not as effectively).

 

So why would Anakin choose to discard the saber he was, at that time, attuned with? Point is, he eventually took a red saber, as every darkside force user does.

 

If it were a personal choice, why didn't Palpatine have blue or green sabers? If they were discovered, he could better easily explain having them. But no. He had red sabers as well..because that is how it works in the canonical films.

 

Palpatine did have a blue saber, click on the link in my last post. I have no doubt that Palpatine would have given Vader one of his back ups because he did, he gave him one of his back ups to study and to inspire him in designing his own lightsaber after he lost the blue one in his duel with Kenobi.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Tuscad

[Cerion]

You're reaching.

 

 

Not reaching at all. Visual communication is paramount in most of the Star Wars films. The language is quite clear.

[Tuscad]

Palpatine did have a blue saber, click on the link in my last post. I have no doubt that Palpatine would have given Vader one of his back ups because he did, he gave him one of his back ups to study and to inspire him in designing his own lightsaber after he lost the blue one in his duel with Kenobi.

 

My bad I don't see the article outright state that one of Palpatines lightsabers is blue. Here you go. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine's_blue-bladed_lightsaber

[Uruare]

Signifiers that Uncle George had no qualms about including.

 

Le sigh, fine. Here's what Uncle George has to say about it.

 

http://www.supershadow.com/george_lucas/interview/32.html

 

 

See, specifically --

 

 

 

The color of light-saber blades has no particular meaning. The problem we faced when working on the old films was the lack of special-effects proficiency. We didn't have the technical means to create light-saber blades of infinite color varieties. Also we only see three Force users with light sabers in the old films so there was no reason to have more than the green, blue and red light-saber blades.

 

When I started work on the prequel trilogy, we obviously had the ability to create any color of light-saber blade. However, to retain continuity between the trilogies, I thought it best not to expand the range of colors for light-saber blades. The only additional color is purple because Sam wanted a purple-bladed light saber because it's his favorite color.

[Tuscad]

Le sigh, fine. Here's what Uncle George has to say about it.

 

http://www.supershadow.com/george_lucas/interview/32.html

 

 

See, specifically --

 

Supershadow is a fraud that needs to be set on fire and thrown into a lion pit, just an FYI.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Tuscad

[AJediKnight]

Palpatine did have a blue saber, click on the link in my last post. I have no doubt that Palpatine would have given Vader one of his back ups because he did, he gave him one of his back ups to study and to inspire him in designing his own lightsaber after he lost the blue one in his duel with Kenobi.

 

What we're ignoring here is the obvious out.

 

Let me play devil's advocate for a moment.

 

Say Lucas decides he wants to preserve the red-only thing. He has Anakin slaughter the younglings, which tips him darkside... so, at that point, he clearly can't use his blue saber anymore. He leaves it at his apartment with Padme, and constructs a new saber (based largely on his original design in Ep. II) while flying on a transport to Mustafar.

 

Meanwhile, Obi-Wan visits the apartment and confronts Padme. He spies Anakin's old blue saber, and this only confirms that his apprentice has fallen to the darkside. Kenobi uses the force to distract Padme and pockets Anakin's old saber, then goes off to hide on Amidala's ship. Padme, distracted by the news of Anakin slaughtering the younglings, never even notices the saber is gone.

 

Elsewhere, Anakin kills the separatists leaders with this new saber, and duels Obi-Wan with it. It is destroyed at the end of the battle.

 

This leaves:

 

- Obi-Wan in possession of Anakin's old saber, so he can still give to Luke.

 

- Anakin in possession of a red saber during the crucial Mustafar duels.

 

- The continuity of the Sith-use-red only 'thing' preserved.

 

And it all comes with the addition of perhaps one thirty-second scene that shows Anakin constructing his new saber, and perhaps a small 10 second portion tacked on to the Obi confronts Padme scene. That's it. Easy as pie.

 

Except, Lucas didn't do that. He chose to have Anakin keep his blue saber; chose for Anakin to wield it while killing Separatists, and to use it against Obi-Wan. Now, you could argue that these decisions were only made because Lucas has largely lost his creative touch, but that's not the point. The point is, rather, that if Lucas felt strongly enough about this color BS, he would have found a way to give Anakin a red lightsaber shortly after he became a Sith. I mean, Jesus, in the span of 2 minutes I came up with a believable plot that would have made it happen.

 

But Lucas didn't do that.

 

Because he doesn't care.

 

You shouldn't either.

Edited March 2, 2012 by AJediKnight

[eisra]

AK47 vs M16

[Tuscad]

What we're ignoring here is the obvious out.

 

Let me play devil's advocate for a moment.

 

Say Lucas decides he wants to preserve the red-only thing. He has Anakin slaughter the younglings, which tips him darkside... so, at that point, he clearly can't use his blue saber anymore. He leaves it at his apartment with Padme, and constructs a new saber (based largely on his original design in Ep. II) while flying on a transport to Mustafar.

 

Meanwhile, Obi-Wan visits the apartment and confronts Padme. He spies Anakin's old blue saber, and this only confirms that his apprentice has fallen to the darkside. Kenobi uses the force to distract Padme and pockets Anakin's old saber, then goes off the hide on Padme's ship.

 

Elsewhere, Anakin kills the separatists leaders with this new saber, and duels Obi-Wan with it. It is destroyed at the end of the battle.

 

This leaves:

 

- Obi-Wan in possession of Anakin's old saber, so he can still give to Luke.

 

- Anakin in possession of a red saber during the crucial Mustafar duels.

 

- The continuity of the Sith-use-red only 'thing' preserved.

 

And it all comes with the addition of perhaps one thirty-second scene that shows Anakin constructing his new saber, and perhaps a small 10 second portion tacked on to the Obi confronts Padme scene. That's it. Easy as pie.

 

Except, Lucas didn't do that. He chose to have Anakin keep his blue saber; chose for Anakin to wield it while killing Separatists, and to use it against Obi-Wan. Now, you could argue that these decisions were only made because Lucas has largely lost his creative touch, but that's not the point. The point is, rather, that if Lucas felt strongly enough about this color BS, he would have found a way to give Anakin a red lightsaber.

 

But he didn't.

 

Because he doesn't care.

 

You shouldn't either.

 

I love you so much right now.

[DarthAwsomeness]

I barely post but since most people who post are here to complain about things, I'll do the same.

 

My current state right now

 

I am playing a Star Wars game and one thing that was iconic to the franchise is definitely the color of crystals tied to the alignment of its user.

Whether it is actually a restriction in the lore of Star Wars or not, doesn't matter.

What matters is that it is how it is, and all haters have now managed to make Bioware change it.

 

Couldn't you just go along with it ? It's been like this for YEARS in Star Wars and just because some kids don't like it "oh noes y me no haz red lightsaber???", Bioware is changing something iconic to the serie.

 

Now, what is done is done and I am not going to go on a crusade like some of you did to change it back.

 

Bioware, you were doing a great job and are still doing the great job. I will likely continue to play this game. However, please don't cave in to whatever stupid requests your community has. You are the developer, with experience in studying, designing and developing games. I trust your judgment and the community should as well.

 

 

I agree with you, but I would go a step further and suggest that no light side story choices be allowed for sith and no dark side choices for Jedi. *Jedi are iconic good guys and sith are iconic bad guys. *There is a single exception seen in the movies, and that is the central character of Anakin. *That's what makes him special and unique. *

[Sylriana]

Not reaching at all. Visual communication is paramount in most of the Star Wars films. The language is quite clear.

 

The part that's reaching is where you see something implicit ( the color of crystal that most sith and jedi in the films use ) and derive an explicit rule from it based on that observation alone ( even going so far as to outright ignore or dismiss counter-examples. ).

[Cerion]

My bad I don't see the article outright state that one of Palpatines lightsabers is blue. Here you go. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine's_blue-bladed_lightsaber

 

Yes. Stolen sabers that he used as back up. He never manufactured one. I'm also surprised nobody has brought up Greivous. So let me pre-emptively point out that he was mostly machine, with 4 stolen sabers whirling about, and Obi wan was still able to decimate him.

 

Now perhaps we can discuss the mechanic in SWTOR isn't ideal for Force Users. A more accurate simulation would be to have the DS/LS score more gradually impact the crystal's performance. A Light V Jedi would have a large penalty for wielding a red crystal; he could still use it, but it wouldn't be as effective.

 

I'd also add a crafting component to it...but that's just me. Personally crafted sabers would be more effective as well.

[Tuscad]

Yes. Stolen sabers that he used as back up. He never manufactured one. I'm also surprised nobody has brought up Greivous. So let me pre-emptively point out that he was mostly machine, with 4 stolen sabers whirling about, and Obi wan was still able to decimate him.

 

Now perhaps we can discuss the mechanic in SWTOR isn't ideal for Force Users. A more accurate simulation would be to have the DS/LS score more gradually impact the crystal's performance. A Light V Jedi would have a large penalty for wielding a red crystal; he could still use it, but it wouldn't be as effective.

 

I'd also add a crafting component to it...but that's just me. Personally crafted sabers would be more effective as well.

 

Grievous wasn't a force user and whether the lightsabers were stolen or not is irrelevant as Palpatine could clearly wield them despite them having a blue blade. Palpatine also clearly had time to swap the color crystal from blue to red.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Tuscad