If snipers are so good....

[GeoLager]

I see more snipers than operatives.

 

 

It's even worse on my server's republic counterparts. Pubs on my server only seem to have 1 active scoundrel, and the server is balanced as far as faction population is concerned.

[Technohic]

I see more snipers than operatives.

 

 

It's even worse on my server's republic counterparts. Pubs on my server only seem to have 1 active scoundrel, and the server is balanced as far as faction population is concerned.

 

Your pubs have a scoundrel?!?

 

I thought they could only be a sage or a trooper.

[GeoLager]

Your pubs have a scoundrel?!?

 

I thought they could only be a sage or a trooper.

 

Well that one scoundrel is leveling an empire alt. A sorc to be specific.

[Technohic]

Well that one scoundrel is leveling an empire alt. A sorc to be specific.

 

hahah This made me literally lol because I could totally see it. Sometimes all I get on the empires team DPS Mercs (very few actually healer spec) and Sorcerers

[DSafana]

Why are there few snipers in 50 brackets? Because most people don't want to work at playing their class. They want easy mode so they roll a sorc where they only need 3 buttons to play. They can basically bang their foreheads on their keyboard and appear to others that they are good players. As one companion once said " yeah I'd be real tough too if I could shoot lightning from my fingertips"

The snipers in the 50's that play their class well, actually have to work at it.

[Caskont]

Reason number one is because when the game started, all of the Star Wars fans wanted to play a class that used a lightsaber or a BH because they were "cool". No fans thought that a sniper was the class they always wanted to play.

 

Reason number two is that Snipers are the hardest class to play. Too hard for most to be good at. You cant just spam 2 or 3 buttons like you can for some of the other DPS classes. From my experience in WZs, most of the people playing are casuals that are just playing the game because they are Star Wars fans and don't necessarily understand the strategy or understand why and where they should be and what they should be doing. I will say it again...Snipers are very hard to play compared to the other classes.

 

If you actually read the forums, you will see that there are a group of snipers that understand how to play that are all saying the same thing...I NEVER, and i mean NEVER, get beat in damage and KBs. (Unless I am guarding a side turret that never gets attacked in Civil War) When I target someone, they either run away or they die. There is no arguing that because that is what happens in my games. You don't get the same results? ...You ever think that it is the person behind the keyboard that is bad and not the class? I mostly solo queue so the theory that I only play with good people is wrong. You can either listen to all the complainers that say snipers are bad, or you can listen to the select group that talks about how they absolutely dominate the WZs. You can then either re-roll or learn how to play the class.

 

 

 

and this is why the class will be NERFED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheRagingPwner]

and this is why the class will be NERFED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Obviously you don't know much about how MMOs work. The developers typically cater to the casuals, as these people make up a greater % of the subscriptions. If 95% of the people who play snipers aren't doing that great, they are not going to be nerfed...Similarly, if the majority of the BH class is doing well because they just have to spam 2 buttons, that class will probably be nerfed. Lo and behold, they announced yesterday that the BH are going to be getting a nerf...so keep on trollin.

[_Marou_]

The reason I don't play my 50 sniper anymore is that I don't enjoy lethality/engineering and marksman (weapon damage) is extremely sub-par against targets in heavy armor.

 

More often than not on my server at least half the republic team is troopers, then throw in a guardian for good measure, and I've only got 2-3 people out of 8 I can do respectable damage to, but one of those is probably a stealther, leaving me 1-2 optimal targets.

 

Sure, I rock against that 12-25% of their team, if they don't understand how to LOS. However, I'm worse than any of my other characters against the rest; and without stealth, speed, or any other methods to force a fight; there is no way to single out the people I can kill efficiently.

Edited March 7, 2012 by _Marou_

[TheRagingPwner]

The reason I don't play my 50 sniper anymore is that I don't enjoy lethality/engineering and marksman (weapon damage) is extremely sub-par against targets in heavy armor.

 

More often than not on my server at least half the republic team is troopers, then throw in a guardian for good measure, and I've only got 2-3 people out of 8 I can do respectable damage to, but one of those is probably a stealther, leaving me 1-2 optimal targets.

 

Sure, I rock against that 12-25% of their team, if they don't understand how to LOS. However, I'm worse than any of my other characters against the rest; and without stealth, speed, or any other methods to force a fight; there is no way to single out the people I can kill efficiently.

 

Troopers aren't as hard to DPS down as tanks are. If you use shattershot, they go down pretty quickly. Sure, armor does reduce the dmg we do, but tanks have extra shield avoidance abilities as well as higher HPs than the Mercs/Troopers do.

[_Marou_]

Troopers aren't as hard to DPS down as tanks are. If you use shattershot, they go down pretty quickly. Sure, armor does reduce the dmg we do, but tanks have extra shield avoidance abilities as well as higher HPs than the Mercs/Troopers do.

 

Often they are guarded if healers, and if not they are receiving heals from guarded healers. I'm not saying it's impossible or I can't kill them, it's just harder and less efficient to kill most classes on my sniper versus either my operative or assassin. If their spacial awareness is as good as mine is, I'm unlikely to kill them, unless they wander into my LOS while low on health fleeing from another fight; or my positioning/scenario is perfect to force them to confront me in an open area.

 

My sniper is forced to re-target different people alot, my operative and assassin do the same or better damage but I actually kill whoever I target the vast majority of the time. To me, finishing off the target I wanted instead of doing 5k more damage but split over 3 people, is more satisfying. Your mileage may vary. The experience at 50 was significantly different than 1-49. In the lower bracket WZ's HP's and mitigation hadn't caught up to DPS; so many of the issues that limit my enjoyment of the class at 50 do not apply.

Edited March 7, 2012 by _Marou_

[Dasamukha]

Indeed it is, you are a regular Mace Windu.

 

I think that SWTOR is going to pull in a huge batch of players who have never played MMORPGs before, and who may even be new to basic FPS game-play. They've heard of WoW and they love Star Wars, and here's a chance to jump onto something like that while it's still new. These players are going to be so inexperienced and their learning curve so flat that the notion of what an "average" player is may be significantly downgraded. This won't affect the places where the skilled players cross swords, but it will affect the perception of the 1-50 levelling process and also, I think, the way that Bioware present and support the game. There's presumably room for everyone, but what I see now is a subculture that is strongly tilted towards the top-tier/pro/hardcore gamers. That's OK, but I expect to see a whole different SWTOR subculture emerge, the New Player scene. I think it will be much huger than the industry is used too, and if the classic gamers scene can't find room for it, it may surface in a whole different place -- in the Star Wars fan culture, for example.

 

My point being? Not much except that the "obvious" may not be quite as "obvious" anymore, and that experienced players with an ability and willing to explain fundamental MMORPG tactics and principles may find their services in high demand.

 

But enough of this vague rambling, since specifics is the way to go:

 

- How important would you say it is to come in with a comparable (equal or very close) level rating when doing missions with bosses and elites? Is it a must? I stick closely to the story quests and am a bit lazy towards pickup missions, which means that I tend to be 3-4 notches underlevelled. This saves me some time in total gameplay but may not be a viable strategy in the long haul? How do people play it, are they even over-levelled?

 

- As a Sniper I see "stealth" and invisibility as natural attributes, and basically enjoy to sneak around looking for unguarded backdoors, climbing walls rather than pulling aggro at the front gate etc. The game worlds allow for quite a bit of this behavior, which of course reduces the number of combat situations I get involved in, and I view this as an advantage. Is this a strategy that is good for the class, or mostly a waste of time? How do you play it, if on a solo mission -- a straight line thru whatever mobs there may be, or a more evasive and slower approach?

 

 

Responding to your questions:

 

Your general rule of thumb for elite mobs is that you should be a level or two ahead. All elites are not created equal. You will have an easier time with an elite that stays at range, but a more difficult time with melee or spell casters. Which is one of the reasons why the end of act 1 can be so challenging. Generally I avoid elites unless they are standing in front of the quest objective. They just aren't worth the trouble.

 

Your sniper is not an operative so it cannot be stealthed. I would personally love a long cooldown short duration stealth. Its not in game, and probably won't be. As for missions/quests, the basic strategy is situational awareness. Don't go down the middle, you use one side or the other. Know whether there is a pather, and where it is. Clear an area and take it out solo. Get to your quest objective first, and then if a bonus quest needs to be completed, pull the mobs close by. Do it fast before you get a bunch of respawns. The most difficult leveling situations occur with unexpected respawns mixed in with regular pulls. You get overwhelmed, and die.

 

Also most SWTOR mobs have a fairly small aggro radius. The radius they will attack you, when your level is higher. The radius increases when you are lower level. You can avoid a number of potentially sticky situations by killing only what you need. Get to the quest objective, and quickly deciding whether you can beat the respawn timer.

 

A word about respawns. An MMO is a dynamic world, but has one fundamental real world flaw. Your individual actions cannot materially change the world or the planet or the zone. Your actions can only temporarily affect the change. After some period of time, those mobs you killed come back to life and are ready to die for another character. The general rule is that the fewer people playing in the zone, the longer the respawn times. The respawn time may be a maximum of 5 minutes for example. If less than x number of players are in the area, then the respawn timer stays at 5 minutes. When more and more people are in the area, the respawn timer gets shorter and shorter. This is the games way of compensating for the increased numbers of people. Eventually the game will reach its shortest respawn time, which in SWTOR seems to be about 30 seconds. At launch when there were large numbers of people in the leveling zones this could be problem. I remember a particular hallway on Alderaan that was brutal. This also means you should be careful following in the wake of another player. If you see a bunch of dead mobs, you need to move quickly through the area to your quest objective. Screwing around on the edge of where you found the dead mobs puts you in danger of respawns. Just because they died there does not mean that's their respawn point.

 

Finally. Enjoy your experiences with the game, but understand that staying active and doing quests is a sound leveling strategy. The more quests you do, the faster and easier it is to level. Grinding (needlessly killing mobs) for the sake of experience is boring and slow. Kill what you need. Most SWTOR quests are reasonably balanced to give you plenty of mobs to kill, without going out of your way, and without putting 15-20 more in the path. A little planning goes a long way.

[ChiknAdobo]

I think the sniper is a great class. Like most people are saying it is not played a lot because it is hard to be good at it. That doesn't mean that it isn't good. I would say it is underrated not underpowered. My first few wzs from lvl 11-13 i placed top 3 DPS most of the games. You definitely have to think before you attack. Basically you have to play like a sniper.

[TheRagingPwner]

Often they are guarded if healers, and if not they are receiving heals from guarded healers. I'm not saying it's impossible or I can't kill them, it's just harder and less efficient to kill most classes on my sniper versus either my operative or assassin. If their spacial awareness is as good as mine is, I'm unlikely to kill them, unless they wander into my LOS while low on health fleeing from another fight; or my positioning/scenario is perfect to force them to confront me in an open area.

 

My sniper is forced to re-target different people alot, my operative and assassin do the same or better damage but I actually kill whoever I target the vast majority of the time. To me, finishing off the target I wanted instead of doing 5k more damage but split over 3 people, is more satisfying. Your mileage may vary. The experience at 50 was significantly different than 1-49. In the lower bracket WZ's HP's and mitigation hadn't caught up to DPS; so many of the issues that limit my enjoyment of the class at 50 do not apply.

 

Any classes that is guarded and getting heals is going to be very very hard to kill (As it should be since that is 2 classes that are committing to nothing but protecting them). I will almost always target the healers first to lock them down. If they run behind a post to LOS me and heal up, I will switch targets and burn them down because if they are worried about survival trying to LOS me, they are usually not paying attention to their team. I agree that the melee classes are always better at killing healers because they can stick on them even when they try to LOS the ranged (I have played a healer in every other MMO so I know what annoys them).

 

I play enough PvP that I know who all of the good people are on the server. If I am fighting them, I will usually legshot them right as they are trying to run away which gives me another couple GCDs to throw some dmg on them. It of course is more satisfying to finish off the kill but my theory is that if I get them to run away, I have taken them out of the battle long enough for my team to win the skirmish. I never chase anyone.

 

Assassins and Operatives are the hardest classes for me to deal with when they are on me since they can stealth and run when they know they are losing.

[Dasamukha]

Yep Pwner has this completely nailed. Any healing class can out heal your dps by in large. If all you want to do is pad your numbers, by all means dps the snot out of the player getting healed. Your damage will go up and up, but you aren't necessarily doing anything to help your team.

 

I do chase people but not for the purposes of killing them per se. Sometimes in huttball it is necessary or you are forced to the floor, sometimes the team is moving the ball through the area and your sniper is going to get rolled up in the process. You are a speed bump to three melee bent on taking you out. Then I fall out, circle around and do my best to target the healer. Leg shot, flash, whatever to hold it up and put some pressure on it. Void star has moments when it is necessary to move from room to room. Then I want to be the last in line chasing everyone I can see, corrosive darts and frag grenades for the win.

[PatrickTheLama]

Thanks to Dasamukha for the helpful and elegantly written suggestions above. As it happens, I just now come out of a lengthy side mission spree around Dromund Kaas/Lord Grantham during which I saw several of the things you say turn out true. I'm slightly overlevelled now for the planet but the XP mission bonuses are still generous, so this is a good spot to be in and gear my level up to circa 20 for Nar Shadaar.

 

After exiting a building I ran into this massive simultaneous respawning of mobs combined with actual mobs in my way, and there were like 7-8 enemies all firing. But none of them were Strongs and Kaliyo is on fire since I gave her this superb purple chest gear from a fortunate loot find... So we were victorious. There were also a couple of Elites we met, which usually gives me severe trouble but due to the 17 vs 14 level advantage they went down too. 2 hours inside Granthams and not a single death, I'm finally beginning to learn this a bit. .

 

So anyway, for the sake of myself and probably other new players, I can verify the usefulness of all these suggestions when you're in mid-levelling.

[Scuzza]

Sniper is awesome in PvP, much more fun than Marauder, that is for sure

 

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/Koitsu/Screenshot_2012-03-07_16_22_46_528539.jpg

[nikthebeast]

Yep Pwner has this completely nailed.

 

Yepp. This day I had some healer /laugh at me cause I couldn't kill him. Little did he know I was sitting at my screen grinning back. This plus a well timed cover pulse and then legshot means you can pretty much put the healer out the equation. This was in huttball.

 

So tired of players who think the numbers is the absolute and perfect way of measuring how well you are performing in a warzone. Not only in huttball, but let's say you're stuck having to defend a turret and the opposing team pushing for another turret, or in voidstar where you're keeping tabs on the other door. On the flipside, having a high damage counter in huttball doesn't mean you're a bad player either. You might very well face a team requiring you to deliver heavy DPS, especially true when you fight a team who doesn't just keel over and die, thus having more prolonged fights. OR just the simple fact that you pick people off returning to the fight/holding mid.

 

The point is, different situations produce different results.

[Mythicrose]

Assassins and Operatives are the hardest classes for me to deal with when they are on me since they can stealth and run when they know they are losing.

 

I only wish they'd stealth and run. For me, that second stealth just means I'm about to faceplant again if entrench is on cooldown and die.