Sentinel /Marauder Nurf Before Rated WZ

[HBninjaX]

Maras aren't only good 1vs1, they are also one of the best class to have in your premade. Our premade runs to 2-3 marauders and they're awesome. Can't remember the last time we lost a huttball with all their defensive cooldowns, charge, predation, and actually being able to kill people (unlike juggernaughts). They are one of the best classes to have there.

 

They are also very good at defending the door and turrets in the other two warzones since they can all heal each other with their berserks, and can hang around and interrupt caps against crazy odds longer than any other class thanks to again their defensive shields and force camo + undying rage. Staying alive for an extra 10 seconds can be a game changer in those two warzones.

 

If you think maras aren't awesome in teams, you are clearly delusional.

 

this has been my experience too, but I'm one of the only rauders actually crazy enough to use predation (there's another guy but I think he's bitin' my style haha)

[furiousferret]

There was a 4 man wrecking crew of Marauders in a game of Huttball that were just insane with the burst. They lost hard.

 

The game isnt all about burst and thats really all they bring to the table.

[Astarica]

If Marauder survivality is so great, why do they always rely on a cooldown (Undying Rage) that's useful only if you're losing badly? It sacrifices 50% of your current health, so you obviously won't use it while you're winning. That's not to say they're a weak class, but if they're as powerful as people claim, you shouldn't even see them using Undying Rage since that is only useful when you're losing badly. Edited March 1, 2012 by Astarica

[Chaosmagistrate]

If Marauder survivality is so great, why do they always rely on a cooldown (Undying Rage) that's useful only if you're losing badly? It sacrifices 50% of your current health, so you obviously won't use it while you're winning. That's not to say they're a weak class, but if they're as powerful as people claim, you shouldn't even see them using Undying Rage since that is only useful when you're losing badly.

 

+10:cool:

 

 

 

I warzone a lot on my Sentinel, and I mkae it a habit to keep up to date on the class, as I used to when I TC'd on EJ as a mage, so I take the time to duel people and to understand my class and my opponents.

 

In a short term fight, Sentinels/Marauders shine. Their defensive cooldowns make up for their lack of hard CC. This enables them to maintain large amount of uptime through sheer survivability.

 

If you prolong the match, Sents/Maras fade as their CDs wear off and go on CD. That doesn't negate the fact that the CDs are powerful, but it's the fact that their damage is generally backloaded so they need the frontloaded survivability to buy uptime.

 

Until you honestly play as a Watchman, and stick through it and find all the strengths and weaknesses, and then switch to another class, you really can't make any judgement call, as you don't have a full understanding of the class's downfalls. Our guild is missing only two ACs(Vanguard and Hybrid DPS Sorc), so I tend to duel with guildies on planets which replicate the ramps in Alderaan, the Pillars in Voidstar to get a good feel and limitation of the classes.

 

In team play, one Watchman will defintely be needed for interrupts. They may not be main assist, but due to the need for interrupts, they will be on a turret-class full-time. On the flip side, this then requires a peeler to be on the Watchman at all times.

 

And who keeps saying that Leap has a 3s immobilize and snare off resolve? Please stop spewing crap out of your mouth.

 

As I was corrected once, Force Leap is a 2s immobilize based off when the Leaper activates Leap, and can be talented to be 3s. There is no snare component. PERIOD. Learn your role.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Chaosmagistrate

[Chaosmagistrate]

There was a 4 man wrecking crew of Marauders in a game of Huttball that were just insane with the burst. They lost hard.

 

The game isnt all about burst and thats really all they bring to the table.

 

There simply is no reason to run four melee, let alone four marauders. Yes, Maras are awesome, but not only is there a dminishing return on that awesome as you stack more awesome, I'm sure it weakens your team.

 

I'd say run two Maras, one Watchman, and one Focus for constant Transcendance. As you pointed out, high damage and high short term survivability isn't very useful in team games, as positioning and the forfeiting of positioning is just as important as actual damage.

 

If you truly think you are any good at MMO PvP, then you realize that awareness and understanding the positional aspect of the game is just as important as the class you play.

[Astarica]

+10:cool:

 

 

 

I warzone a lot on my Sentinel, and I mkae it a habit to keep up to date on the class, as I used to when I TC'd on EJ as a mage, so I take the time to duel people and to understand my class and my opponents.

 

In a short term fight, Sentinels/Marauders shine. Their defensive cooldowns make up for their lack of hard CC. This enables them to maintain large amount of uptime through sheer survivability.

 

If you prolong the match, Sents/Maras fade as their CDs wear off and go on CD. That doesn't negate the fact that the CDs are powerful, but it's the fact that their damage is generally backloaded so they need the frontloaded survivability to buy uptime.

 

Until you honestly play as a Watchman, and stick through it and find all the strengths and weaknesses, and then switch to another class, you really can't make any judgement call, as you don't have a full understanding of the class's downfalls. Our guild is missing only two ACs(Vanguard and Hybrid DPS Sorc), so I tend to duel with guildies on planets which replicate the ramps in Alderaan, the Pillars in Voidstar to get a good feel and limitation of the classes.

 

In team play, one Watchman will defintely be needed for interrupts. They may not be main assist, but due to the need for interrupts, they will be on a turret-class full-time. On the flip side, this then requires a peeler to be on the Watchman at all times.

 

And who keeps saying that Leap has a 3s immobilize and snare off resolve? Please stop spewing crap out of your mouth.

 

As I was corrected once, Force Leap is a 2s immobilize based off when the Leaper activates Leap, and can be talented to be 3s. There is no snare component. PERIOD. Learn your role.

 

Well Undying Rage often does turn a losing fight into a winning fight, but clearly until the point Marauder used Undying Rage, you'd have to be winning since it literally makes no sense for the Marauder to use Undying Rage if he's the one winning.

 

I think some of their cooldowns are hard, maybe too hard to counter effectively. It might help if Undying Rage has a more visible graphic. I assume the grahpics for that is when they're glowing red with an angry face, but most Sith look like they're angry and glowing red all the time anyway. Probably doesn't help quite a few races have a generally reddish appearance.

[Chaosmagistrate]

Well Undying Rage often does turn a losing fight into a winning fight, but clearly until the point Marauder used Undying Rage, you'd have to be winning since it literally makes no sense for the Marauder to use Undying Rage if he's the one winning.

 

I think some of their cooldowns are hard, maybe too hard to counter effectively. It might help if Undying Rage has a more visible graphic. I assume the grahpics for that is when they're glowing red with an angry face, but most Sith look like they're angry and glowing red all the time anyway. Probably doesn't help quite a few races have a generally reddish appearance.

 

I tend to watch their resolve bar very carefully. If you have any specced immobilizes, use those to effectively ground him every time it's up for cooldown. And it's up to the player to learn the visual cues. With youtube and dueling, it shouldn't be hard. You don't need a gosh darn text message to your phone telling you the guy popped "x-ability"....Go find a like-minded individual and duel them, and check your ranges and visual cues.

 

But you probably hit on the most sore point for most people. It's so easy to get angry at a Mara because they took out your sorc(not necessarily meaning you), but they work the sorc down, and the sorc replies back with dots and snares, the Maras resolve bar is full, and then a Jugg and another Sorc comes to help. The Mara pops UR, and all of a sudden lives, dispatches, gets the kill then subsequently dies. When ideally, the Mara should have died.

 

The issue I have with that is that most people don't understand the Resolve system. People who know it, know how to abuse it. Having played a Scoundrel to 50, I can honestly tell you te Scrapper spec is still highly effective in terms of CC as long as you study and keep an eye out on the Resolve bar. That's how I effectively neuter and can kill Sentinels on my Sc. I know the class, and I know how to neutralize it's strengths. One of the greatest advantages to give a Mara is a full resolve bar, as they are now virtually unkitable. To have any chance at taking a Mara, it is essential to maximize your CCs, and not chain them back to back to back.

 

Undying Rage is so situational, but in most situations, players panick, and pop knockback, and stun, thus filling the resolve to full. Yes, they can force leap off a knocback(assuming no root effect), so yes, you have to eat some of the damage, and at that time, you may consider using your own defensive CDs to mitigate to let the resolve bleed. But it's small details like that that differentiate the consistent winners and the consistent WHINERS.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Chaosmagistrate

[EternalFinality]

Well Undying Rage often does turn a losing fight into a winning fight, but clearly until the point Marauder used Undying Rage, you'd have to be winning since it literally makes no sense for the Marauder to use Undying Rage if he's the one winning.

 

Any smart player knows that a Marauder is going to use it, and saves a CC accordingly. Either CC before they pop it at low hp and finish them off, or CC them after they use it and wait out the timer. Or dot them up.

 

"I was at 40% and you were at 5% I was winning and Undying Rage turned a losing fight into a win for you!" is disingenuous because the Marauder hadn't used all his cooldowns. You probably did. You probably spammed stuns on him and he's full resolve.

Edited March 1, 2012 by EternalFinality

[Cempa]

If you don't CC him he will DoT you up and half your HP is gone before he is even at 50% hp.

 

If you don't CC him he will have a full stack x30 then use his offensive CD's and you will be near death before he is even 50% hp.

 

If you do use your CC on him he will have a full Resolve and then kill you.

 

Immobilize and Snare off Resolve have this AC as OP...

[BeeSiK]

Sentinel /Marauder CD's can not stay as short as they are now for Rated WZ the AC -Watchman / Annihilation - is a bit over the top.

 

Im guessing you either play a sage or sorc..either of which...u shouldnt be talking about cooldown cc's LOOOL

[Cempa]

Im guessing you either play a sage or sorc..either of which...u shouldnt be talking about cooldown cc's LOOOL

 

Sorcerer yah and the point of this thread is Rated WZ not random PuG PvP.

 

I know that my class -DPS builds- is filled wit gimmicks. I know that any damage -if you can call it that- is easily healed.

 

I know that I have no burst.

 

I know that I am supposed to AE and CC with support heals and pull and bubble.

 

I also know that skilled teams know that a Sage/Sorcerer is the easiest to burn down.

 

All it takes is the level of organization any full x8 pre made OPS has and Sage/Sorcerer will spend more time at rez then actual game.

[GrandMike]

Defense brigade defending their OP class is in

 

Sad thing is they all seem to play in pugs, and drivel about 1vs1.

Edited March 2, 2012 by GrandMike

[Tyranoc]

Either i'm playing a different game, or I know nothing of my own class.

 

Yeah my Anni spec'd marauder is good. He hurts, and his dot's are pretty nasty. I'm geared up however I still get killed in fights.

 

You people are making these classes sound like they are gods when in fact its not that hard to beat us at all.

 

 

 

When you guys are tlaking about premades then talking about nerf;ing is sad and pathetic. There is no sane or logical reason to nerf a class because a premade group has good cohesion and knows what needs to be done to win. Punishing a class because they are supported by healers, tanks, etc is crap.

 

L2P or simply stop pug'ing.

 

Noobs.

[GrandMike]

Either i'm playing a different game, or I know nothing of my own class.

 

Yeah my Anni spec'd marauder is good. He hurts, and his dot's are pretty nasty. I'm geared up however I still get killed in fights.

 

You people are making these classes sound like they are gods when in fact its not that hard to beat us at all.

 

 

 

When you guys are tlaking about premades then talking about nerf;ing is sad and pathetic. There is no sane or logical reason to nerf a class because a premade group has good cohesion and knows what needs to be done to win. Punishing a class because they are supported by healers, tanks, etc is crap.

 

L2P or simply stop pug'ing.

 

Noobs.

 

Its not punishing a class, it making a class what it was supposed to be instead best tank ingame, and does best damage, and has best mobility, and one of best CCs of their kind...

 

You know its coming, you can vent a bit, but its gonna come soon.

 

Wow, you even sometimes get killed.

 

*cry*

 

I know you dont want to be nerfed, but its for the good of the game and health of PvP *shrug*

Edited March 2, 2012 by GrandMike

[Romanticyde]

Its not punishing a class, it making a class what it was supposed to be instead best tank ingame, and does best damage, and has best mobility, and one of best CCs of their kind...

 

You know its coming, you can vent a bit, but its gonna come soon.

 

Wow, you even sometimes get killed.

 

*cry*

 

I know you dont want to be nerfed, but its for the good of the game and health of PvP *shrug*

 

marauders don't/can't tank, they're defensive cooldowns allow for 20-30 seconds at most of mitigation, unless you're talking about the inconsequential heals we get from anni spec which are only effective when berserk is popped

 

Best damage? not really, best sustained with anni maybe, but not overall most impressive

 

mobility? you're a joke now, charge.. CHARGE... that's it unless you spec carnage for force camo or rage for oblit

 

CCs? you must be talking about carnage now they're damage is even more iffy than anni

 

now I hope you noticed by now you are all over the board with specs here

 

pick one and tell us what's wrong with it because we can't have all of it at once

 

you are either a troll or just completely ignorant to how marauders work

Edited March 2, 2012 by Romanticyde

[GrandMike]

marauders don't/can't tank, they're defensive cooldowns allow for 20-30 seconds at most of mitigation, unless you're talking about the inconsequential heals we get from anni spec which are only effective when berserk is popped

 

Best damage? not really, best sustained with anni maybe, but not overall most impressive

 

mobility? you're a joke now, charge.. CHARGE... that's it unless you spec carnage for force camo or rage for oblit

 

CCs? you must be talking about carnage now they're damage is even more iffy than anni

 

now I hope you noticed by now you are all over the board with specs here

 

pick one and tell us what's wrong with it because we can't have all of it at once

 

you are either a troll or just completely ignorant to how marauders work

 

One word: denial

[Adzzy]

An equally geared Sorc can actually kite you. Most are too stupid to pull it off but the skilled ones can.

 

And yes, they can kill you in a 1v1 situation if they pull it off.

 

yes it can be done, but It takes an impractical amount of time in a wz to do, to the point its simply not worth even trying.

[zqsd]

Not to mention sentinel/marauder takes twice the effort of other classes

 

Absolutely not.

 

It is time for people to know the truth; no, mar/sent are not the "special hard" class of the game, they are on par with other melee classes with a lot of cooldowns, binds and abilities. In fact they are a bit easier than others since there is no back requirement for their attacks.

 

Oh, except for vanguard, which is easier than other melees. (i have one)

[EternalFinality]

yes it can be done, but It takes an impractical amount of time in a wz to do, to the point its simply not worth even trying.

 

You'd rather die?

[thanealpha]

i only feel strong as watchman or focus. combat got the short end of the stick.

 

QFT. This hits the nail on the head.

[Tyranoc]

Its not punishing a class, it making a class what it was supposed to be instead best tank ingame, and does best damage, and has best mobility, and one of best CCs of their kind...

 

You know its coming, you can vent a bit, but its gonna come soon.

 

Wow, you even sometimes get killed.

 

*cry*

 

I know you dont want to be nerfed, but its for the good of the game and health of PvP *shrug*

 

Best tank?

 

I think you are playing a different game from the rest of us.

 

You do realise that marauders are the dudes with 2 lightsabers yeah?

 

They are about as good a tank as a soggy piece of toast. They can only keep standing if they have a healer healing them.

[-Steph-]

Sents/Mara's are probably the most balanced class in my eyes, we can really put out some crazy damage but it requires some skill to do so. All calls for nerfs are clearly from people who don't know how the class plays, whine when they are beaten 1v1 or haven't took the time to look up our specs properly.

 

Only Combat spec has a ranged root and Combat spec is in need of a serious boost in my eyes, I think most people go Watchman... otherwise we have a channelled CC which is easy to counter with an interrupt or knock back.

 

Without defensive cool downs we are squishy as hell - not only that we have to get into melee range and stay there with a million snares/roots and knock backs raining down on us. We would suck without those cool downs, and if you play against a good team who snares/roots you smartly we are pretty much useless. If you still struggle to kite us despite all our disadvantages then maybe don't fill our resolve bars instantly?

 

 

Out of all the classes I've tried I think it takes the most skill and concentration to shine in PVP with so if you constantly get beat by some Sents/Maras then sorry you've likely been out played.

[Tyranoc]

Sents/Mara's are probably the most balanced class in my eyes, we can really put out some crazy damage but it requires some skill to do so. All calls for nerfs are clearly from people who don't know how the class plays, whine when they are beaten 1v1 or haven't took the time to look up our specs properly.

 

Only Combat spec has a ranged root and Combat spec is in need of a serious boost in my eyes, I think most people go Watchman... otherwise we have a channelled CC which is easy to counter with an interrupt or knock back.

 

Without defensive cool downs we are squishy as hell - not only that we have to get into melee range and stay there with a million snares/roots and knock backs raining down on us. We would suck without those cool downs, and if you play against a good team who snares/roots you smartly we are pretty much useless. If you still struggle to kite us despite all our disadvantages then maybe don't fill our resolve bars instantly?

 

 

Out of all the classes I've tried I think it takes the most skill and concentration to shine in PVP with so if you constantly get beat by some Sents/Maras then sorry you've likely been out played.

 

 

+1

 

Those calling for a nerf are obvious noobs who simply cry when they are beaten by a specific class.

[nschlan]

+1

 

Those calling for a nerf are obvious noobs who simply cry when they are beaten by a specific class.

 

That's one of the requirements for calling for a nerf, get beat by one class and then immediately assume it's OP.

[Tyranoc]

That's one of the requirements for calling for a nerf, get beat by one class and then immediately assume it's OP.

 

You also forgot that upon being defeated by a class you MUST immediately come on the forums and scream "OP!!! NERF!!! NERF!!! NERF!!!"

Despite the fact that 99% of the population have no problems with the class in question.

 

Such is the life of a skilless noob.