What has BioWare & TOR done to push the genre forward?

[quarlo]

INNOVATION: TOR has given us a fully voiced MMO with cutscenes and individual class storylines. But there are other MMOs on the horizon who will be giving us the samething.

 

EVERYTHING ELSE: lowest common demoninator of MMO game design and implimentation.

 

If this game had come out in 2005 it would have set the industry standard, but for 2012, it's sorely lacking.

[Cavadus]

Because of TOR, never again..will people settle for anything less than full voiced content or an amazing leveling experience with an awesome story where you can make decisions that effect your outcomes.

 

THATS what..

 

Not only will I "settle" for the opposite of what you just posted but I would immensely prefer it.

 

All the VO in the world doesn't make the ground combat new and fun, doesn't make the gear itemization anything but a lazy grind, doesn't make the joke of space game a total black eye for Bioware, the UI, the craptacular PvP world of Ilum, boring mirrored classes where the translation from the first class to the second is so transparent and piss poor (i.e. it's painfully obvious that Bounty Hunter came before Trooper and that Trooper is a second-class translation), and on, and on, and on.

 

Bioware should have spent a lot more time on their actual game than paying people to speak into a microphone. The game shows players in every facet the absolute neglect and haste of development while Bioware was focusing on 8 mediocre quest chains.

[Torquist]

They implemented a tradeable card game called Pazaak inside an MMO to double hook people and secure long term subs.

 

Oh wait ........ no they didn't, my bad.

[okjake]

VO was great tell about level 30 then it got old quick and most of the VO was wasted on lame side quest most people broke their spacebar trying to get through as quick as possible. Innovation I would have to say this game took a few steps back on that department.

[Cromica]

Not only will I "settle" for the opposite of what you just posted but I would immensely prefer it.

 

All the VO in the world doesn't make the ground combat new and fun, doesn't make the gear itemization anything but a lazy grind, doesn't make the joke of space game a total black eye for Bioware, the UI, the craptacular PvP world of Ilum, boring mirrored classes where the translation from the first class to the second is so transparent and piss poor (i.e. it's painfully obvious that Bounty Hunter came before Trooper and that Trooper is a second-class translation), and on, and on, and on.

 

Bioware should have spent a lot more time on their actual game than paying people to speak into a microphone. The game shows players in every facet the absolute neglect and haste of development while Bioware was focusing on 8 mediocre quest chains.

 

100% agree

[AJediKnight]

Because of TOR, never again..will people settle for anything less than full voiced content or an amazing leveling experience with an awesome story where you can make decisions that effect your outcomes.

 

THATS what..

 

Lol. WRONG Sarfux. As usual. I'm actually looking forward to getting away from this voice-acted bunk with Tera. Give me engrossing environments, profoundly immersing combat, a solid in-game soundtrack and simplistic quests over shabby, predictable, ho-hum VO any day of the week.

 

This genre is about what happens at the cap. Blowing $100 million on voice-over doesn't make a lot of sense when you're essentially wasting all that money on a part of the game that doesn't really matter for the bulk of a longterm player's subscription.

 

What is that hundred mil doing for my 50? How is it improving the sorry state of Ilum, or my boring daily WZ grind?

 

Full VO is stupid and, what's more, it's stupidly expensive. I don't expect another game to waste development dollars on it on this scale for, well... maybe ever?

Edited March 1, 2012 by AJediKnight

[Tarka]

Lol. WRONG Sarfux. As usual. I'm actually looking forward to getting away from this voice-acted bunk with Tera. Give me engrossing environments, profoundly immersing combat, a solid in-game soundtrack and simplistic quests over shabby, predictable, ho-hum VO any day of the week.

 

This genre is about what happens at the cap. Blowing $100 million on voice-over doesn't make a lot of sense when you're essentially wasting all that money on a part of the game that doesn't really matter for the bulk of a longterm player's subscription.

 

What is that hundred mil doing for my 50? How is it improving the sorry state of Ilum, or my boring daily WZ grind?

 

Full VO is stupid and, what's more, it's stupidly expensive. I don't expect another game to waste development dollars on it on this scale for, well... maybe ever?

 

I think it's a bit unfair to call full VO "stupid". Perhaps it was a little "over the top" how Bioware implemented it, but it was a gamble. Unfortunately, in this day and age it's a very expensive and risky gamble. One that may ultimately backfire on them.

 

In my opinion, the industry has been crying out for the sophistication to return to MMO's that we used to see in older games, rather than being the "3D world with instance boss encounters and shallow crafting systems" design which made WoW successful, but no other western made P2P MMO successful ever since. I don't just mean "story" either. I'm talking about additional sophistication in EVERYTHING in an MMO, including (but not limited to):

• More depth in instanced locations, such as having traps in them and more alternative routes that reward people with additional encounters.
  
• More depth in interacting with the worlds: More interactivity with gameworld objects.
  
• In depth crafting system that isn't just a vending machine which churns out items that by and large are worthless compared to orange gear.
  
• More depth in itemisation: such as rare named items that are covetted and pose an encouragement to get them.
  
• More depth in environments: Dynamic elements in the environments and the ability to explore more. The ability to swim in deep water if one desires.
  

 

The list goes on.

 

Whilst the "WoW standard" (a 3D world with simplistic instanced boss encounters and shallow crafting system) worked for WoW, that shallow level of sophistication hasn't worked for any other MMO ever since. MMO's need not just to have "story" put back in them, but life put back in them too. Otherwise they risk the danger of becoming nothing more than a slightly more sophisticated version of some of the more cheap and tacky MOBA games.

 

Bioware focused too much on VO and dialogue options (that essentially don't largely affect outcomes a great deal) and ignored what ELSE is needed for an MMO to feel like an MMO.

 

When taken literally, the abbreviation of MMO just refers to multiple people in the same game, that definition ignores what the very "essence" of what an MMO should also be. And an MMO should be more than just a good story with voice over.

 

This is just my opinion of course

Edited March 1, 2012 by Tarka

[DJunior]

Not only will I "settle" for the opposite of what you just posted but I would immensely prefer it.

 

All the VO in the world doesn't make the ground combat new and fun, doesn't make the gear itemization anything but a lazy grind, doesn't make the joke of space game a total black eye for Bioware, the UI, the craptacular PvP world of Ilum, boring mirrored classes where the translation from the first class to the second is so transparent and piss poor (i.e. it's painfully obvious that Bounty Hunter came before Trooper and that Trooper is a second-class translation), and on, and on, and on.

 

Bioware should have spent a lot more time on their actual game than paying people to speak into a microphone. The game shows players in every facet the absolute neglect and haste of development while Bioware was focusing on 8 mediocre quest chains.

 

So completely correct.

[txtech]

INNOVATION: TOR has given us a fully voiced MMO with cutscenes and individual class storylines. But there are other MMOs on the horizon who will be giving us the samething.

 

EVERYTHING ELSE: lowest common demoninator of MMO game design and implimentation.

 

If this game had come out in 2005 it would have set the industry standard, but for 2012, it's sorely lacking.

 

Probably the best analysis I've seen so far. And as Raph Koster put it, voice responses ingame isn't content, it's feedback.

[DJunior]

I think it's a bit unfair to call full VO "stupid". Perhaps it was a little "over the top" how Bioware implemented it, but it was a gamble. Unfortunately, in this day and age it's a very expensive and risky gamble. One that may ultimately backfire on them.

 

In my opinion, the industry has been crying out for the sophistication to return to MMO's that we used to see in older games, rather than being the "3D world with instance boss encounters and shallow crafting systems" design which made WoW successful, but no other western made P2P MMO successful ever since. I don't just mean "story" either. I'm talking about additional sophistication in EVERYTHING in an MMO, including (but not limited to):

• More depth in instanced locations, such as having traps in them and more alternative routes that reward people with additional encounters.
  
• More depth in interacting with the worlds: More interactivity with gameworld objects.
  
• In depth crafting system that isn't just a vending machine which churns out items that by and large are worthless compared to orange gear.
  
• More depth in itemisation: such as rare named items that are covetted and pose an encouragement to get them.
  
• More depth in environments: Dynamic elements in the environments and the ability to explore more. The ability to swim in deep water if one desires.
  

 

The list goes on.

 

Whilst the "WoW standard" (a 3D world with simplistic instanced boss encounters and shallow crafting system) worked for WoW, that shallow level of sophistication hasn't worked for any other MMO ever since. MMO's need not just to have "story" put back in them, but life put back in them too. Otherwise they risk the danger of becoming nothing more than a slightly more sophisticated version of some of the more cheap and tacky MOBA games.

 

Bioware focused too much on VO and dialogue options (that essentially don't largely affect outcomes a great deal) and ignored what ELSE is needed for an MMO to feel like an MMO.

 

When taken literally, the abbreviation of MMO just refers to multiple people in the same game, that definition ignores what the very "essence" of what an MMO should also be. And an MMO should be more than just a good story with voice over.

 

This is just my opinion of course

 

Agreed. Too much single-player in this multiplayer game. When I'm levelling, I actually enjoy the class story and the cutscenes, but must we watch cutscenes for virtually every single side quest we pick up? I couldn't care less what Cmdr. Whomever wants me to do on Alderaan for House Whatever. Ain't doing nothing but wearing out my space bar. I don't read it. I just pick the dark answer. Honestly, I have a bookshelf full of great books, so forgive me if I don't wanna read all that top-rate video game storytelling.

Edited March 1, 2012 by DJunior

[anstalt]

Full VO for all quests is definitely an innovation, pushing the industry forward and proving what is capable.

 

Is the VO in TOR the best way forwards? Probably not. For me, I'd rather they went to quest text for all quests, but kept VO for class quests and companion interaction where it is really important. This would also allow them to have multiple voice actors per class due to less lines, which further increases character customisation.

 

I'd also like to say that companions, imo, are a huge innovation and are pushing the genre forwards - I can gear and spec my companions how I want, control them in combat, talk to them, they have personalities and they like/dislike me based on my actions.

 

 

Finally, light/dark side options as well as social points are an innovation i've not seen in an mmo. The former, whilst not really having an effect in the end, really helps me feel attached to my character. The latter is a really good reward system for grouping up with other people, something that is rarely encouraged these days.

[DJunior]

Agreed in most parts. Large companies with huge financing and backing stand the most to lose, thus they're more likely to play it safe. We'll look towards smaller developers to produce games that have a higher risk vs reward. Everyone should just remain pragmatic about the genre. Change is coming, it's here now actually.

 

Well said.

[AJediKnight]

I'd also like to say that companions, imo, are a huge innovation and are pushing the genre forwards - I can gear and spec my companions how I want, control them in combat, talk to them, they have personalities and they like/dislike me based on my actions.

 

I don't want to play a pet class anymore. Ever. Unless, that is, I choose to do so. Having pets forced on us was nonsense, especially since they essentially disappear from the map at 50. I haven't seen one of my companions in weeks -- literally. They're just icons on a crafting menu. They aren't in WZs, they aren't in my raid on Ilum, and they aren't with me in ops or FPs.

 

Why they had to be present for any of it, I'll never understand.

[DarthWomprat]

I think they've demonstrated that voice acting for quests was a decent idea for class quests, but a horrible economic investment that takes away from what makes most MMOs fun: Exciting gameplay and world immersion.

 

Just my opinion, fanboys. Go easy.

[Icebaron]

I think they've demonstrated that voice acting for quests was a decent idea for class quests, but a horrible economic investment that takes away from what makes most MMOs fun: Exciting gameplay and world immersion.

 

Just my opinion, fanboys. Go easy.

 

This game would of actually been better if the VO was for class quests and companion quests. Leave the world quests as text.

 

It's annoying having to spam the space bar four or five times to just accept the quest you KNOW you are going to accept anyways.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Icebaron