Wish you could change advanced classes, great idea!

[Galbatorrix]

I completely agree. It shouldn't be easy to do (at least not like respeccing >.>). Especially because this is a story driven MMO and to play again the same Class Quest is just dumb.

 

 

First off, you could play a lightside Powertech and a darkside Mercenary and end of with a much different experience based off your choices. Nothing "dumb" about that. On top of that, you could play a Vanguard (powertech's mirror) and then a Mercenary and you'd basically be playing both ACs with completely different stories.

[aznthecapn]

Christ do you people read at all?

 

Your posts are becoming increasingly incoherent and offensive. If you expect to convince anyone of your point (ironically trying to convince the people who have no power to change things) then you need to have a reasonable discussion - regardless of how rude or out of hand the other person is. The guy you were going back and forth with in the last few pages was being very reasonable and respectful. Then you went down the name calling path and it took a nose dive into rude. By both of you.

 

You cannot merely dismiss other people's points as "selfish". You have to address them and attempt to dispel or discredit them. Calling them selfish is the pinnacle of the strawman. Explain WHY they are selfish. Sighing and asking "do you read" is juvenile at best.

[chaosdefined]

Thanks for the high and mighty talking down to. I have tried to explain why they are selfish and narrow minded, what I was met with was more arrogance and ignorance.

I have resigned myself to the fact that arguing with people on here is pointless and such is why I am no longer taking part in the debate.

 

I will continue to enjoy the game as I am, and hope that perhaps people are right, and that there are far more players who don't want AC change than who do. Because I wouldn't like to see a game I'm really enjoying lose too many players and fail all because the dev's were too stubborn to change something.

[Maltra]

As i have already said in the other thread:

 

Ac switching as easily as changing talents will eventually happen, they just say "no" for now because from a money making perspective it's still better for them to have people pay for more gametime and reroll a different spec of the same class (because yeah, that's what they are).

 

From a gameplay perspective, however, ac switching should have been there since day 1. It doesn't affect the gameplay in any negative way, only positive ones, especially for small groups of guilds/players. It's just an option and people who want to roll 100 characters can do so regardless.

 

No one can change the devs mind on this. They simply think they make more money this way for the aforementioned reasons, so until at least a few months have passed and everyone has 4-5-6 50s, they won't allow ac switching. But when those conditions will be met, they will, because from a functionality standpoint it makes no sense whatsoever to not be allowed to change ac just as you change your spec.

 

Everyone fooling her/himself into thinking there's any other reason other than money behind the devs stance, like, they're some sort of holy crusaders who think that is evil to change ac because it's a different class and such thoughts have to be purged with fire by the righteous, and prides her/himself for being on "the devs' side" is delusional.

 

Give it time, and it will happen, no matter what the insane roleplayers/community people have to say on the matter.

 

Cross server, dual spec, dungeon tool, color crystals come to mind. If it makes sense from a gameplay/functionality/convenience standpoint, it will happen. Unless money dictates otherwise of course.

 

I just hope that by the time ac switching will be a reality, there will still be people to play the game, because right now the future doesn't look too bright.

[VanorDM]

It doesn't affect the gameplay in any negative way

 

Yes it does have a negative effect on the game. The fact that you ignore it doesn't mean it's not there.

 

It should not of been in the game since day one, since no game lets you change your class. I don't care how many times someone tries to claim it's not really the same thing, because it is exactly that. it is your class, and calling it something else doesn't change anything.

 

The Dev's considered it in Beta and decided not to have it. They considered it again and have said they have no intention of adding it in.

 

It may happen at some point, but not for a long time, if ever.

[Notannos]

Hey everyone,

 

We recently had to removed several posts from this thread due to posts that did not contribute constructive discussion. A reminder that regardless of the topic, it is part of our Rules of Conduct that:

• 
  
• Never insult another member of the community.
  
• Respect other community members, whether they agree with you or not.
  
• Flag, don't fight. Use the "flag" feature to report posts to our Community Team if you see someone breaking the rules – don't respond to them!
  
• Make constructive, on-topic posts that add to the discussion.
  

Thank you for understanding.

[Stellin]

I would agree with this ONLY if there was an absolutely, horrendously difficult quest involved. After completing the quest, you could change your AC. But once changed, you would never be able to reverse the change. Ever. I could see this as a viable option then, but simply granting someone a "freebie" change to their advanced class is a silly idea, mainly geared towards spoiled "gimmie now" players.

MMO's are not supposed to be a cake-walk. Time invested = Best Characters.

[Costantino]

I say no to this. The ACs are completely different and allowing changes would make the game go from 8 classes to 4. As someone else said, you choose "Imperial Agent" for the story, not the class. The class you choose is what determines what type of game play you receive. Sure, Operatives and Snipers share some abilities, but one is a stationary long range shooter while the other is a melee, rogue type that sneaks up on his opponents to get the drop on them. The classes play NOTHING alike.

 

 

If you want to be a different AC, reroll.

 

Yay! Another person who gets it!

/clap

[aznthecapn]

From a gameplay perspective, however, ac switching should have been there since day 1. It doesn't affect the gameplay in any negative way, only positive ones, especially for small groups of guilds/players. It's just an option and people who want to roll 100 characters can do so regardless.

 

Oh yes, it does indeed negatively impact the game. You need to understand that, as a game that features a large community and not a single player game, any change will have a sweeping effect on the ENTIRE playerbase. It does not merely effect you - it effects everyone. The negative effects have been rehashed many times so I won't do it again here. Its your job to be up to speed on the current discussion and, by the sound of things, you're months behind.

 

Give it time, and it will happen, no matter what the insane roleplayers/community people have to say on the matter.

 

Odd, the majority, so far, must be "insane" as you put it because the vast majority do NOT want this to happen. The proof is out there and its your responsibility to be educated, not mine to teach you.

 

I just hope that by the time ac switching will be a reality, there will still be people to play the game, because right now the future doesn't look too bright.

 

The future looks fine. No one is going to quit over a feature that doesn't exist in other games and wasn't even an option here at all.

[Alexi_son]

I don't drop in and post to these forums much, but I do play the game a lot, and have played MMOs for about 14 years now, since 1998 and M59.

 

 

I play a Jedi Guardian, and switching specs, or changing dual-spec, like say Ret Paladin to Holy Paladin in WoW, would be like going from a Defense guardian to a Vigilance Guardian in SWToR.

 

THAT is switching specs.

 

What you folks are asking for by switching your advance class, would be, as I see things, like asking to respec your Ret. Paladin to a Marksman Hunter.

 

Because that's what it is. It's not a "spec" - The ability to respec is already in the game.

 

What you're asking for is, I rolled this class, but I don't like it, so can you guys just let me be another class and keep all my experience and gear so I don't have to go level up another one I might like better.

 

You rolled a Vanguard - then that guy is a vanguard. If you want a commando, go make a commando. It's the same thing fundamentally as rolling a warrior and asking if you can switch your warrior over to a cleric.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Alexi_son

[MajikMyst]

From game design perspective, Bioware can fix this two ways.

 

A.) Re-design advance class

 

1.) Officially breaks down the "advance" class to 8 classes and let players choose from level 1.

2.) 8 classes means 8 different primary stats

3.) 16 different class story (8 classes x 2 for both factions)

4.) 16 different sets of companions

5.) 16 sets of armor designs

6.) 8 sets of abilities unique to the 8 classes (mirrored on the other side)

7.) 3 sets of skill tree per class (total 8 x 3 = 24 skill trees, mirrored on the other side)

 

My issue is, why would any of that make the AC a seperate class in your mind.. Do you hold other games to the same standard?? Did you make this up in some attempt to support AC speccing..

 

How many casters in WOW wear cloth, use mana, use the same stats, have the same skills under a different name??

 

Why do you care about companions and since when were companions a basis for determining if a characer is a class or not?? Since this is one of the few MMOs with story, why do you care about story and why is it a determining factor in deciding if a character is a class or not?? How many primary stats were in WOW?? How many classes used spell power?? How many used strength?? How many used Hit?? How many used crit?? To demand different stats is a bit rediculous.. It certianly isn't a standard applied to any other MMO.. Armor designs?? Who cares and why does that determing class or not?? There are actually 16 unigue abilities given to the 16 classes in this game.. Only one tree is shared in any given class.. A Jedi Sentinel has many different and unique skills that a Guardian does not have.. Just as a Gunslinger has many different and unique abilities that a Scoundrel does not have.. So all 16 classes have different and unique abilities.. Thanks for noticing.. Why does it matter if one tree is shared?? Why does sharing a single tree mean that they are no longer different classes??

 

I fail to see how your demands even make sense and aren't a double standard because you want AC speccing.. There are 16 unique classes in this game.. About as unique as classes in any other MMO.. Sure their are simularities.. I am still not sure how simularities deny classhood.. Mages and Warlocks are almost completely identical.. In fact destro locks are often refered to as fire mages.. It doesn't matter if some classes have some traits that are identical.. It is simply unrealistic to demand that they all be completely different.. Companioins are irrelevent.. Story is irrelevent.. I am actually impressed that we got 8 different storys.. I fail to see how story determines classhood.. Armor designs?? What does that mean?? Why can't 2 classes that do simular things wear the same armor?? Again, look at mages and Warlocks.. Both wore cloth, both with the same EXACT stats.. Both rolled for the same EXACT items.. Are they the same class?? By your standards you are trying to impose on Bioware they are.. You better go tell Blizzard all about it.. They might need to know before they release the pandas..

 

In the end your post is really nothing more than a double standard.. Not to mention you are trying to apply rules that don't exist.. There are no written in stone rules as to what determines class or not.. If their were rules that determine class, they would have to be equally applied to other games.. Story is not a factor at all.. Companions is not a factor at all.. Stats are not a factor at all.. Let's see you come up with 16 different primary stats for 4 mele classes, 4 caster classes, 4 light arms ranged, and 4 heavy arms ranged.. How did they not accomplish that with strength, willpower, cunning, and aim?? Why do they need 16 unique stats??

 

This is why I say there is no arguement for AC switching or speccing.. Because people can't even argue the fact that there isn't 16 classes in the game.. Of course the only reason to attempt that arguement is to devalue the classes so that it is just a spec change you want and not a class change.. Well.. You are asking for a class change.. Bioware should never allow a class change.. Blizzard never allowed it.. That is one thing they should take from Blizzard..

Edited March 3, 2012 by MajikMyst

[illgot]

I'm for allowing people to switch ACs.

 

Except for very minor changes to gear types, the stats are the same. With the new changes to set gear and the ability to put mods in any orange gear, even that won't be an issue.

 

-Story the same

 

-Ship the same

 

-Stats the same

 

-Companions the same

 

-Gear type the same for 3 of 4 classes

 

But I don't want to see this in game, I want bioware to charge 30 dollars for an AC switch.

Edited March 3, 2012 by illgot

[aznthecapn]

I'm for allowing people to switch ACs.

 

Except for very minor changes to gear types, the stats are the same. With the new changes to set gear and the ability to put mods in any orange gear, even that won't be an issue.

 

It remains a major issue. For some classes, the gear only becomes "nonviable" as they go from light to medium or medium to heavy. For others its completely unusable as they go the other direction. You need to re-evaluate your idea of "minor".

 

-Story the same

 

80% of the game is the same story for everyone, regardless of class. Does this mean we should allow people to change from an Inquisitor to a Mercenary?

 

-Ship the same

 

Cosmetic similarity - ALL ships are the same. See above.

 

-Stats the same

 

Preferred stats change based on how you do damage.

 

-Companions the same

 

Cosmetic - everyone gets the same roles for companions, see three above.

 

-Gear type the same for 3 of 4 classes

 

So should be people be allowed to change between those classes then?

 

 

None of this is valid reasoning for AC switching.

[Maltra]

Yet, they surely are more valid reasons to allow it rather than not allow it.

 

People wanting ac switch do at least provide decent arguments, while people against it haven't really come up with much so far in these months except "it's wrong" "i don't want it so nobody should be allowed" which are obviously pretty terrible arguments.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Maltra

[KahnyaGnorc]

Yet, they surely are more valid reasons to allow it rather than not allow it.

 

People wanting ac switch do at least provide decent arguments, while people against it haven't really come up with much so far in these months except "it's wrong" "i don't want it so nobody should be allowed" which are obviously pretty terrible arguments.

 

I really want to group with a level 50 Scoundrel healer (for example) that has not actually PLAYED a Scoundrel and has just switched from a Gunslinger. (sarcasm, just in case) No, I want to group with a Scoundrel healer that spent 40 levels playing a Scoundrel. (not sarcasm, just in case)

[Maltra]

I really want to group with a level 50 Scoundrel healer (for example) that has not actually PLAYED a Scoundrel and has just switched from a Gunslinger. (sarcasm, just in case) No, I want to group with a Scoundrel healer that spent 40 levels playing a Scoundrel. (not sarcasm, just in case)

 

I'd rather be able to have a healer that just switched from the opposite ac than no healer at all and wasting time not being able to do anything.

 

Besides, playing a character is not rocket science, chances are that if someone sucks at playing a scoundrel healer after 15mins he switched to it, he would have sucked even if he made one from the ground up, and STILL, i'd rather go with that healer and do something rather than have no healer at all. Or at least have the options of saying well i could go with this not so good healer but i choose not to, rather than being forced to do nothing from having no option at all.

 

If that was your idea of a compelling argument, sarcasm or not, well... meh.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Maltra

[KahnyaGnorc]

I'd rather be able to have a healer that just switched from the opposite ac than no healer at all and wasting time not being able to do anything.

 

Besides, playing a character is not rocket science, chances are that if someone sucks at playing a scoundrel healer after 15mins he switched to it, he would have sucked even if he made one from the ground up, and STILL, i'd rather go with that healer and do something rather than have no healer at all. Or at least have the options of saying well i could go with this not so good healer but i choose not to, rather than being forced to do nothing from having no option at all.

 

Quite frankly, as a tank, I'd rather go off and do something solo or play an alt than to group with someone who never played their class before, relying on them to heal me. While I don't have a phobia about wipes, I don't actively seek them out, either.

[Maltra]

Quite frankly, as a tank, I'd rather go off and do something solo or play an alt than to group with someone who never played their class before, relying on them to heal me. While I don't have a phobia about wipes, I don't actively seek them out, either.

 

Then do so, but why should i be forced into your choice as well? Me being fine to have a laugh in a group where some poor bastard just changed ac and does random stuff doesnt affect you in any way.

 

That being said for the sake of argument, i dont believe that being decent with a class takes more than few minutes... maybe an hour.. MAYBE in extreme cases a day, so it's really a non issue.

 

If i could change my commando into a vanguard at will i'd have 0 problems tanking or dpsing or pvping as i know how those specs work and how they have to be played, it's not really a big deal. Again, we're not talking rocket science here..

Edited March 3, 2012 by Maltra

[aznthecapn]

Yet, they surely are more valid reasons to allow it rather than not allow it.

 

People wanting ac switch do at least provide decent arguments, while people against it haven't really come up with much so far in these months except "it's wrong" "i don't want it so nobody should be allowed" which are obviously pretty terrible arguments.

 

You can't just say "their arguments suck" and call it a day. Everyone knows they are going to disagree with someone - positive discourse is about coming to the table maturely and trying empathize with the other side and their point of view. You may not agree but you should at least be able to understand and see the value in it. Otherwise your presence here is wasteful and pointless. You told the developers you want it - good. You're done. You don't need to keep posting just to be belligerent to those of us trying to discuss this topic like adults.

[Maltra]

You can't just say "their arguments suck" and call it a day. Everyone knows they are going to disagree with someone - positive discourse is about coming to the table maturely and trying empathize with the other side and their point of view. You may not agree but you should at least be able to understand and see the value in it. Otherwise your presence here is wasteful and pointless. You told the developers you want it - good. You're done. You don't need to keep posting just to be belligerent to those of us trying to discuss this topic like adults.

 

Are you for real? You told the developers you don't want it, and for now, they said it's not coming. So the real question is why are YOU still posting here?

 

And please, spare me your pitiful lecture about mature discourses and whatnot, because if that's what you wanted, you wouldn't be replying to every single person who disagrees with you with such a supponent tone like you've been doing for months now, instead of following your own "mature" advice and stop posting.

 

I also find it amusing how supposedly i can't just say "their arguments suck" (besides i don't do that, i've been proving time and time again WHY they suck, which is different. While you can: and replied to a long reply of mind in the other ac thread saying

No. You don't get it. Educate yourself on the topic before posting.

So much for mature discoursing, am i right?

Edited March 3, 2012 by Maltra

[KahnyaGnorc]

Then do so, but why should i be forced into your choice as well? Me being fine to have a laugh in a group where some poor bastard just changed ac and does random stuff doesnt affect you in any way.

 

That being said for the sake of argument, i dont believe that being decent with a class takes more than few minutes... maybe an hour.. MAYBE in extreme cases a day, so it's really a non issue.

 

If i could change my commando into a vanguard at will i'd have 0 problems tanking or dpsing or pvping as i know how those specs work and how they have to be played, it's not really a big deal. Again, we're not talking rocket science here..

 

Then, roll an alt. If I want to tank differently than my main tanks, I roll a Vanguard or Shadow to do so. If you want to tank and rolled a healer, roll a tank. You rolled a Commando, and I rolled a Guardian. Neither of us rolled a Vanguard.

[aznthecapn]

Are you for real? You told the developers you don't want it, and for now, they said it's not coming. So the real question is why are YOU still posting here?

 

And please, spare me your pitiful lecture about mature discourses and whatnot, because if that's what you wanted, you wouldn't be replying to every single person who disagrees with you with such a supponent tone like you've been doing for months now, instead of following your own "mature" advice and stop posting.

 

The fact that I am replying consistently is actually evidence that I do want a mature discussion. So is reporting people who can't maintain a civil tone in their posts.

 

I never said it was more mature to not post. Did you read what I said? You like putting words in people's mouths. I said its about WHAT you post. You should work on that and come back in a few weeks.

[Maltra]

Then, roll an alt. If I want to tank differently than my main tanks, I roll a Vanguard or Shadow to do so. If you want to tank and rolled a healer, roll a tank. You rolled a Commando, and I rolled a Guardian. Neither of us rolled a Vanguard.

 

Why did you avoid the actual question and reply with something that doesn't have anything to do with what we were saying? You brought the example up, not me. Now you want to stray away from it cause you've realized my point of view actually makes sense and your world is crumbling down all around you?

 

About what you just replied on the other hand, i don't want to roll an alt in order to play one of my classes specs. I can justify alts for actually different classes, and i have as a matter of fact 5 lvl 50s, but i'm not gonna roll an alt to play what's basically a glorified spec of a class that i already have.

 

Besides, alts are just that, alts. And they get the attention they deserve: not much. I want to play the class i rolled, which is a trooper, to its fullest and i can't do that because half of its specs are denied to me due to this moronic ac system.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Maltra

[Maltra]

The fact that I am replying consistently is actually evidence that I do want a mature discussion. So is reporting people who can't maintain a civil tone in their posts.

 

I never said it was more mature to not post. Did you read what I said? You like putting words in people's mouths. I said its about WHAT you post. You should work on that and come back in a few weeks.

 

All you do is keep posting non arguments or irrelevant things on the matter that is being discussed, while pretending that they actually support your cause, when they really don't.

 

In the process, you also try to bait pretty much everyone you come in contact with to have angry responses so you can report them.

 

I think there's a name for that, and it surely isn't mature discussion.

[aznthecapn]

All you do is keep posting non arguments or irrelevant things on the matter that is being discussed, while pretending that they actually support your cause, when they really don't.

 

"Their reasons suck" is a non-argument. Its also irrelevant to the discussion.

 

There's a name for that as well.

 

In the process, you also try to bait pretty much everyone you come in contact with to have angry responses so you can report them.

 

I'm not baiting anyone. If you can't put your anger aside over a topic like this, that's your problem.