I'm tired of feeling like a gimped BH/Commando

[Greyfeld]

I'll just say up front, I haven't played either Sniper or Gunnery/Assault in level 50 pvp. My experience with this is purely pre-50, so if what I say flies in the face of what is true at level 50, just keep this in mind.

 

That said, I'm seriously tired of feeling like a poor-man's commando. Tracer/Grav completely bypasses defenses and shields while sniper/ambush/followthrough/SoS hits both. Cover Pulse requires ducking into cover to activate, which means that you're telegraphing like hell before you use it, and gives any inquisitor/consular/merc/commando the chance to pop their's off before you can use yours. Our 4-second stun is melee-only, which runs completely contrary to the design philosophy of ranged characters, as opposed to the ranged stun available on all BH/troopers.

 

I'm not even going to get into Evasion being worthless against anything that isn't another Marksman Sniper, and Shield Probe being knocked out in the span of one rifle attack.

 

I'm an inch away from speccing lethality, not because I actually think it's a good spec, but because I'm tired of trying to play a turret, and feeling like a screwed version of Merc/Commando.

[Radared]

Marksmanship is pretty good...the damage is pretty stellar. I think part of it is you have to pick your targets better possibly. I am a huge advocate for Lethality and it is personally the spec I play. If you're pre-50 it could be tough depending on how low leveled you are. You'll go through energy quick especially if you cannot get the +10 talent.

 

I am hoping they make a few adjustments. I think we deliver pretty stellar damage, but I don't feel like they're special either. Defenses are non-existent. You can argue other classes die fast too...but they have the ability to speed run away, vanish, or shield wall, heal...whatever the case may be. We have Evasion...and I will give you that, Evasion is pretty poor.

[Greyfeld]

Don't get me wrong, if people leave me alone, I can dish out some good damage. But the moment I get targeted, I'm spending every GCD doing what I can to get away, because I'm about to go squish.

 

This thread was spurred by my evening of pvp. The last 3 matches I played in, I had a gunnery commando up my butt the entire match. I interrupted his grav round every chance I got, popped Evasion immediately after (Full Auto says it does weapon damage, but I swear Evasion doesn't let me dodge the damage), watched as he got 3 full grav rounds off during his stun, while I can't even get off two Snipes in the same duration because I have to drop into Cover first, then hope my Snipe doesn't freaking bug out. Then there was the handful of times I would try to get in melee to Cover Pulse them off the ramp, only to get knocked away myself, because I had to drop into Cover first.

 

And let's not forget the couple times I actually got the drop on them, and then had to stand by and watch as they ran around LoS and healed up all the damage I did.

 

Just.... *Sighs* Marksman and Gunnery are both turret specs, and I constantly feel like any Commando with two brain cells to rub together just does it better.

[poulpatine]

Thank god lethality is a very strong pvp spec. If you're annoyed with cover and shield/defense mechanics ruining our MM skills, go for it.

 

I like cover, the delay is not horrible like some will way. Plus, sorcs get a huge delay on their bump animation., meaning you'll get bumped at the same time. But the absurd amount of parries i always get, + the annoying shields THAT ONLY YOU AND YOU ALONE with no reason to as a ranged class must go through are absurd. When you sos with 100 dmg per tick or get 5+ chained deflections...yeah...

Edited February 28, 2012 by poulpatine

[TheRagingPwner]

Don't get me wrong, if people leave me alone, I can dish out some good damage. But the moment I get targeted, I'm spending every GCD doing what I can to get away, because I'm about to go squish.

 

This thread was spurred by my evening of pvp. The last 3 matches I played in, I had a gunnery commando up my butt the entire match. I interrupted his grav round every chance I got, popped Evasion immediately after (Full Auto says it does weapon damage, but I swear Evasion doesn't let me dodge the damage), watched as he got 3 full grav rounds off during his stun, while I can't even get off two Snipes in the same duration because I have to drop into Cover first, then hope my Snipe doesn't freaking bug out. Then there was the handful of times I would try to get in melee to Cover Pulse them off the ramp, only to get knocked away myself, because I had to drop into Cover first.

 

And let's not forget the couple times I actually got the drop on them, and then had to stand by and watch as they ran around LoS and healed up all the damage I did.

 

Just.... *Sighs* Marksman and Gunnery are both turret specs, and I constantly feel like any Commando with two brain cells to rub together just does it better.

 

Sounds like I have the solution to all of your problems.....PORTABLE COVER!!! Roll to cover is bugged. It has been bugged since release. This is nothing new. People still are coming on to the forums complaining about it every day. USE THE ABILITY THAT WORKS! As a MM, I have never had a problem killing Merc/Trooper. They are actually probably the easiest class for me to kill 1v1. MM is not the problem in this scenario...it is most definitely your play style. If you interrupt their tracer/grav, they are completely worthless.

[Greyfeld]

Sounds like I have the solution to all of your problems.....PORTABLE COVER!!! Roll to cover is bugged. It has been bugged since release. This is nothing new. People still are coming on to the forums complaining about it every day. USE THE ABILITY THAT WORKS! As a MM, I have never had a problem killing Merc/Trooper. They are actually probably the easiest class for me to kill 1v1. MM is not the problem in this scenario...it is most definitely your play style. If you interrupt their tracer/grav, they are completely worthless.

 

I'm not retarded, I've used portable cover since level 10.

 

And if you think a merc/commando is useless just because you interrupt their tracer/grav, then you've fought against really really dumb players.

[TheRagingPwner]

I'm not retarded, I've used portable cover since level 10.

 

And if you think a merc/commando is useless just because you interrupt their tracer/grav, then you've fought against really really dumb players.

 

Alright well I have never had snipe bug out with portable cover. It is known to bug out with the roll to cover mechanic but not the portable.

 

Seeing as you are in the 1-49 bracket...it is possible that this guy was just a higher lvl/better geared than you. You can not compare classes unless you are of equal lvl and even that is faulty as the game was balanced for lvl 50 play, not 1-49.

 

Are you leading the fight with shatter shot? When I fight BH/Trooper, I interrupt their second grav round cast and by the time their 4 second lockout is over, they are almost dead. In most 1v1 cases, whether it be a healer or DPS, I will first use my interrupt, then when they are able to cast again, I flashbang and wait a couple secs, then start attacking again and have the CD up on my interrupt. I can kill a Trooper/BH without them ever casting a TM/Grav if I wanted.

[Greyfeld]

Alright well I have never had snipe bug out with portable cover. It is known to bug out with the roll to cover mechanic but not the portable.

 

It typically bugs out with Snap Shot. Trying to Snipe immediately after dropping into cover triggers the GCD and makes the sniper do the Snipe animation, but the ability doesn't actually go off. It doesn't happen all the time, but it happens enough to be a royal pain in my ***.

 

Seeing as you are in the 1-49 bracket...it is possible that this guy was just a higher lvl/better geared than you. You can not compare classes unless you are of equal lvl and even that is faulty as the game was balanced for lvl 50 play, not 1-49.

 

My sniper is level 46, so any level gap is liable to be in my favor. That said, there's not really any major stat differences between players, due to the warzone buff. Haven't you noticed that all players' health is between 11000-13000, no matter what level they are? Stat differences in the 1-49 bracket are negligible. The real difference in is the abilities you've unlocked/learned due to being a higher level.

 

Are you leading the fight with shatter shot? When I fight BH/Trooper, I interrupt their second grav round cast and by the time their 4 second lockout is over, they are almost dead. In most 1v1 cases, whether it be a healer or DPS, I will first use my interrupt, then when they are able to cast again, I flashbang and wait a couple secs, then start attacking again and have the CD up on my interrupt. I can kill a Trooper/BH without them ever casting a TM/Grav if I wanted.

 

Any BH/Trooper that isn't stupid uses LoS to heal up if they're on the losing end of that fight. And even if you're close enough to run around to the other side and start firing at them again (which is almost never the case in Huttball, when you're trying to clear people off your catwalks), playing the pillar-hump game with them is a waste of your time, especially since you lose about 80% of your damage unless you can get them to stupidly stand still long enough to drop into cover and channel more abilities.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Greyfeld

[DrekorSilverfang]

I'm not retarded, I've used portable cover since level 10.

 

And if you think a merc/commando is useless just because you interrupt their tracer/grav, then you've fought against really really dumb players.

 

Interrupting tracer/grav against a good merc/cm does not completely stop their damage but you have to realize their entire builds are piled on top of the idea that they will be spamming tracer/grav. If they aren't then their DPS tanks. It would be equivalent to your sniper trying to play with only overload shot, you might do some damage but it's nowhere close to what you're capable of.

 

You simply can't do that to a sniper though.

[MrSIlverSurfing]

The only class that I really have trouble with as a bodyguard/healing speced Merc is the snipers. I can't heal through the massive single target DPS. As soon as I see the cross hairs on me I hall but. I wasn't very happy with my Sniper alt until he hit 30. Followthrough made all of the difference for me. It does kind of suck being so squishy, but kind of comes with the territory as a glass cannon.

[TheRagingPwner]

Any BH/Trooper that isn't stupid uses LoS to heal up if they're on the losing end of that fight. And even if you're close enough to run around to the other side and start firing at them again (which is almost never the case in Huttball, when you're trying to clear people off your catwalks), playing the pillar-hump game with them is a waste of your time, especially since you lose about 80% of your damage unless you can get them to stupidly stand still long enough to drop into cover and channel more abilities.

 

I typically position myself next to the pillars or debris that is used for LOS. If anyone wants to LOS me, they would have to run through me to get to that cover. If there is other cover and they want to LOS me, I will use my OS and put it right on top of the cover that they are hiding behind. It will hit the person that is hiding behind it. That is 10k+ worth of damage that they are going to take if they want to sit behind that cover. They then have 2 options. Run away entirely (I win because I took them away from combat) or come out and fight (I win again). Worst case scenario, if they decide to run and LOS you, just move on.

 

Sniper is, in my opinion, the hardest class to play in the game. Not only do you have to manager your ability CD and energy well but in PvP you have to have superb map awareness. We don't have the ability to leap, pull, or stealth to get away. You need to setup in the right place. You need to be able to predict where people are going to be depending on the situation. You need to see someone coming and know exactly where you need to be to be in the best position to get a couple shots off before he even reaches you. I have absolutely no problem 1v1ing most classes (there are a couple melee type classes that I can't kill if their CDs are up).

[All_Under_Heaven]

I really cannot understand why people ***** and moan about being a turret class.

 

Did they not read the name of the Advanced Class when they chose? The class is called Sniper. What did you expect?! Run-and-gun action with explosions behind you?

 

If you're so ******* fed up with actually sniping, spec Lethality and enjoy your ten-meter combat.

 

The Agent community disgusts me. If you don't enjoy the class you are playing, stop playing it.

[iehnbjirsmniyn]

I have a 50 mercenary and a marks sniper in the low 30s and ive pvp on my mercenary at low leels before.

 

Mercenarys have heavy armour + jet boost vs a snipers cover pulse + leg shot + flash bang + damage mitigation talent in cover + entrench (cc immunity) + melee stun. So sniper survivability > mercenary survivability. As for pillar humping los from WoW i have a feeling bioware wont make los too much of an issue in group pvp like it is in wow arenas since that would completely screw snipers

 

Offensively mercenarys can dump more damage in the same amount of time before running out of resource and being forced to autoattack and they both burst for similar amounts. Mercenarys have a stun with a 1 min cooldown but snipers have an interrupt on like a 8s cd. So offensively they seem to be about the same.

 

Mercenarys are more mobile than snipers so mercenary is more like a mobile turret while snipers are immobile turrets but with better survivability to compensate. I wouldn't say mercenarys are better is every aspect compared to snipers.

[Esmie]

Mercenarys have heavy armour + jet boost vs a snipers cover pulse + leg shot + flash bang + damage mitigation talent in cover + entrench (cc immunity) + melee stun. So sniper survivability > mercenary survivability. As for pillar humping los from WoW i have a feeling bioware wont make los too much of an issue in group pvp like it is in wow arenas since that would completely screw snipers

 

Offensively mercenarys can dump more damage in the same amount of time before running out of resource and being forced to autoattack and they both burst for similar amounts. Mercenarys have a stun with a 1 min cooldown but snipers have an interrupt on like a 8s cd. So offensively they seem to be about the same.

mercs actually have heavy armor+jet boost+electro dart +concussion missile+energy shield+self heals+cure vs. Snipers flash bang+cover pulse (mercs jet boost is way better)+entrench+melee (lolwhat) stun+ okay may be I should count leg shot, but it never helped me to survive, rest is complete crap, defensive cooldowns are barely worth spending a GCD.

I'm leveling a mercenary, almost 40, and merc seems to be a lot more powerful, but a little boring after gunslinger.

[Desgarden]

I really cannot understand why people ***** and moan about being a turret class.

 

Did they not read the name of the Advanced Class when they chose? The class is called Sniper. What did you expect?! Run-and-gun action with explosions behind you?

 

If you're so ******* fed up with actually sniping, spec Lethality and enjoy your ten-meter combat.

 

The Agent community disgusts me. If you don't enjoy the class you are playing, stop playing it.

 

Somehow I find this comment funny. Well, then where is my camouflage and my ability to hit vulnerable spots to cripple my enemies? I mean it states "sniper". Sorry, but that post simply deserved some sarcasm

 

Also, I think you do not got some qualms people have about the class. What has 10 meter combat to do when someone complains that he is in deep trouble as soon as he gets targeted? Where does he say he runs in and does close-in combat. Man...

Edited February 29, 2012 by Desgarden

[Crankyhobo]

But the absurd amount of parries i always get, + the annoying shields THAT ONLY YOU AND YOU ALONE with no reason to as a ranged class must go through are absurd. When you sos with 100 dmg per tick or get 5+ chained deflections...yeah...

 

This is what i don't understand and people seem to continually overlook it. Sniper is given many penalties such as this but what compensates for it? If you're responsible for balance you have some goals and you add negatives and positives to add variety and spice and tailor the game-play.

 

For example, you start with all classes being the same. Now one guy says we want snipers to target the healers, so lets make sniper the only class subject to avoidance, this will make them weaker against tank classes, and be forced to focus on the healers. Its now not balanced, unless you give every other class an equal (but could be different) negative. or you could increase damage. But then you back yourself into corners where you can't break your blanket assertions like ' all classes will have the same damage +/- 5% ' or ' all healing classes should be equally viable healers in flashpoints and operations ' so you find other creative ways to offset the effects of meeting your goals.

 

When people say things like 'but X class has great utility because they have a stun'.. well that may be true but in terms of balance and the discussion of comparative strengths/weaknesses and what should change it's completely irrelevant if every other class has the same ability, they cancel each other out and you need only look at the differentiating factors.

 

How much have they actually buffed so far since launch? I think they're scared of buffing. Which is strange to me given how much they've shown themselves to over-nurf and because every nurf is a buff to something else in disguise.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Crankyhobo

[grapefruit]

I really cannot understand why people ***** and moan about being a turret class.

 

Did they not read the name of the Advanced Class when they chose? The class is called Sniper. What did you expect?! Run-and-gun action with explosions behind you?

 

If you're so ******* fed up with actually sniping, spec Lethality and enjoy your ten-meter combat.

 

The Agent community disgusts me. If you don't enjoy the class you are playing, stop playing it.

 

This 10 meter thing keeps cropping up from people who just look at web calculators and don't actually try the spec. Cull has a range of 35 meters for snipers, but you'll be limited to the 30 yard range of your poisons anyway.

 

You'll still want to stay far away from combat and out of the thick of things, and plop into cover for cull (so you can't be interrupted/pushback).

 

Back on topic, the sniper class isn't free from its issues. Cover required abilities have definite disadvantages that aren't balanced by corresponding strengths. There are definite BUGS here that need to be fixed.

 

--Unable to cover when rooted, thus turning every root into a stun for the sniper. Roots are not effected by resolve. It doesn't make sense from a balance standpoint to have a ranged class be stunned by roots. Why roots aren't affected by the resolve system in the first place is beyond me.

 

--The additional lag time the server checks which cover requires are a disadvantage.

 

Example: A sorc jumps down to the same platform as you and you try at the same time to knock one another off. The sorc hits his ability and the sniper enters cover and hits cover pulse. By the time the server registers the cover the sniper has already been knocked off the platform by the sorc, and even better may have even wasted the cover pulse cooldown to no effect. I can't have even hit entrench in time to avoid being knocked off. The sniper has to do everything faster and in advance of the other classes.

 

This lag time extends to any abilities upon entering cover, so in any mobile fight every action that requires cover will have additional server side check. Or every time we're cc'd recovering takes just that much longer.

 

--Unable to even use cover at certain locations. Cover simply won't work in certain areas and gives errors, like behind the boxes on the ramp in hut ball or on top of certain terrain objects. A knowledgeable player can exploit some of these "no sniper" zones, I know I do on my alts.

 

--Knockbacks that break entrench. Burn cooldowns and force ourselves to be completely immobile to receive its benefit, shouldn't be able to broken by a knockback.

 

I do like the sniper, I do like being a ranged glass cannon. I think its silly that they're the least mobile (no movement abilities at all) and that the cover system has so many problems. Fixing these problems won't turn the sniper into the super FOTM overpowered class, but they would go a long way in removing some of the frustration with playing it, and probably bring a little more diversity into the pvp game.

A game with just 2 classes playing in pvp would be much less fun, so the advice of just telling people to reroll to the least broken class doesn't help the game in the long run.

Edited February 29, 2012 by grapefruit

[All_Under_Heaven]

Somehow I find this comment funny. Well, then where is my camouflage and my ability to hit vulnerable spots to cripple my enemies?

 

Re-read my post. I was raging about the innumerable people who complain about Snipers being a turret class.

 

Even I think Sniper's should get a camouflage mechanic. As far as vulnerable spots, Shatter Shot is the best we have. For now.

 

This 10 meter thing keeps cropping up from people who just look at web calculators and don't actually try the spec. Cull has a range of 35 meters for snipers, but you'll be limited to the 30 yard range of your poisons anyway.

 

I apologize, I was one of those people; I based my numbers off of DarthHater's skill calculator.

Edited March 1, 2012 by All_Under_Heaven

[Phinion]

Have to say it is your playstyle. You are trying to be a complete turret all the time. You have to learn which skills work on the run and learn to kite, especially around objects. Stay away from the pack if possible and learn the cc that you have availible.