Force Push for threat generation?

[mattnaik]

Let me start this off by saying I don't play a Guardian so I am pretty ignorant about the class altogether but is Force Push a good threat generator? The reason I ask is that a friend of mine plays a guardian and claims that this is one of his best threat generation abilities. I couldn't find anywhere that says it generates threat. He also says that force leap is his main focus generator so any chance he can use the leap he needs to.

 

I find it incredibly annoying that being a Watchman Sentinel I'm trying to keep dots up at all times then all of a sudden he's halfway across the room and my force leap is on cooldown. So my DPS drops to 0 and my rotation is completely thrown off.

 

I can also see this causing problems with AoE abilities completely missing targets with poorly timed pushes.

 

If this shouldn't be part of a tanking rotation, I'd like to let him know before we start trying to do hardmodes when he gets to level 50. He'll still probably get pissed at me for telling him how to play his class but I'd like to at least know I am right before saying anything more to him.

[SalsaDMA]

I personally wouldn't use a pushback ability while tanking, unless it was to push a mob off a cliff to its death.

 

Tanking is not only about holding aggro and surviving, but also about maintaining a controlled enviroment as much as possible in order to make it easier for everyone to keep track of things. From the sounds of it, your friend is skirting on the teamplay component in order to solo play.

 

As for threat of push? I wouldn't think so, aside that it 'pushes' the mob away from your ability to dps it, and thus make threat

[thorizdin]

Yeah, push isn't something you use for threat. The main use is for adds, especially some of the annoying ones. A good use is to push the stun probes on the robot boss in KP, especially the ones that are on the back wall.

[Kitru]

If this shouldn't be part of a tanking rotation

 

It isn't. Force Push deals less damage than pretty much all of your other attacks and doesn't have a high threat mod. Force Push should be reserved for those times when you need to push the target, such as Malgus in his sub-10% phase, positioning a target to make AoEs not break CC, or throwing an enemy off of a catwalk to it's entertaining doom.

 

In addition, Force Leap is also not one of a Guardian's primary Focus generators. Those would be Sundering Strike, Strike, and Soresu form. There are a *slew* of other abilities that are intended to be used for additional Focus generation (Force Stasis, Combat Focus, Saber Throw, Force Leap) but those are not *primary* focus generators; they're either situational (requiring you to be at range, which is not where you want to be) or on long CDs (so they're never up often enough to be primary threat generators). They should be used when appropriate, but they're never going to be the primary tools used to ensure that you have sufficient resources.

[Baelish]

...Force Leap is also not one of a Guardian's primary Focus generators...

 

It's sort of primary in that it's the first one you use, pretty often...

[Zalgred]

Well i wouldnt be bad if the devs add a threat generation to the force push ability, that way we could use it when tanking bosses in Flashpoints or Operations.

[Baelish]

Well i wouldnt be bad if the devs add a threat generation to the force push ability, that way we could use it when tanking bosses in Flashpoints or Operations.

 

You probably still wouldn't want to, most of the time. Boshing the target out of range (of at least the mDPS)/out of AEs (being dropped on adds you've managed to control) and forcing yourself to move out of any AE heals to go get whaling on the target again would mean you'd need a big "additional threat" component to make up for the threat you lose while moving (even if it's only a leap - you could have been using those 2 CDs for other abilities).

 

And if shifting the boss around (maybe it's a fast way to get out of a puddle) is worth sacrificing a bit of threat, it's probably worth sacrificing as much as you have to now.

[Inarai]

Don't have a Guardian, but...

 

Push is a way to help corral things, get an enemy off of the healer, interrupt an enemy should other options not be available... There's a lot of utility to it if you use it at the right times, especially since it resets Leap's cooldown so you do not have to spend a lot of time away from the enemy. It's pretty handy for a tank swap, too, as you can Push before another tank Pulls or Grapples the enemy, so you drop some threat which helps them make up the gap.

 

It's not a part of the general rotation, but if you use it at the right times it could be highly effective.

[Zalgred]

You probably still wouldn't want to, most of the time. Boshing the target out of range (of at least the mDPS)/out of AEs (being dropped on adds you've managed to control) and forcing yourself to move out of any AE heals to go get whaling on the target again would mean you'd need a big "additional threat" component to make up for the threat you lose while moving (even if it's only a leap - you could have been using those 2 CDs for other abilities).

 

And if shifting the boss around (maybe it's a fast way to get out of a puddle) is worth sacrificing a bit of threat, it's probably worth sacrificing as much as you have to now.

 

Most bosses can't be pushed or stunned, so what you say wont happen. Force push will only be used as a threat generator.

[Baelish]

Most bosses can't be pushed or stunned, so what you say wont happen. Force push will only be used as a threat generator.

 

So why would you want to use it instead of the several other threat generators you have? Still, biffing non-bosses around is going to get your DPS's backs up.

[GENKILL]

I use Force Push to create groups like when there are ranged enemies who are a good distance apart I will leap to the one that's farthest, then push him to a group and leap to him again. And then you have yourself a nice group for the DPS to AoE down

 

The rest of the time I use it is to knock things off cliffs or get adds of a healer.

 

It's a situational ability not a threat generation ability. Plus it's on a 1 min CD even further proof its not meant for threat gen. It's a situational ability.

 

Your friend probably thinks Force Leap is the main focus generator because you can leap, push, leap in quick succession (also probably why he thinks push is a threat generator) since push resets leap's cooldown. When you do this you are at 6 focus. Other than that Force Leap is used as an opener to a fight and Sundering Strike, Strike and Soresu form are what build our focus on a regular basis.

[Vexysle]

I use it for extra damage on HM bosses as well as force choke... well because if everything else is on cd that extra dps helps

[Siorac]

It's also a good way to get aggro back from overzealous melee DPS: Force Push, Force Leap, Guardian Slash/Hilt Strike - by the time the melee DPS catch up, out of breath, you should have attention again

 

But yeah, it's mostly a situational ability. It's also a good interrupt. And it basically gives you a GCD when you're not getting hit, that's a good thing as well.

[TwistedKitten]

I like to use Force Push as an emergency interrupt, to create groupings for easy AoE/threat management, to just to troll my sages ("So, Sage, I heard you like droids /push":p). When I was leveling and running flash points, I'd use Push/Leap combo to generate emergency Focus but now I Guardian Leap to the healer then Force Leap back to the mob I'm tanking if I'm hurting for Focus and my instant generator is on CD.

 

Despite the massive amount of complaining and dogging on Guardian class as a whole, I found that the Guardian forums have a fair amount of decent to great information on the class and how it works. Maybe if your friend doesn't listen, direct him there?

[KVork]

you can also use Push as a form of CC.

 

You pick MELEE mob, slow everyone down and then Push. He is Slowed, then stuned, wakes up far away from you, and starts his slow march back... so as a tank you realy can and should use knockback. (or taunt/push and let sorc burn him with lightning slowing in process, posibilities are endless)

 

Second CC use: pick a RANGED mob, slow everone around, push the mob (aoe taunt if you have to) and force charge pushed mob. you will get your 5-6 sec solo with that mob while all other will slowly crawl towrads you... even more powerfull CC.

 

Little Tip: If you choke a guy before, he is "launched" from eleated position, he flies further , even less incoming dmg)

 

And about that threat, it generates some more because of Condition (stun) it applies, mobs dont like being stuned in this game. But otherwise it is normal attack. (and stronger than you think, like all force attacks it gets more powerfull when you grind some nice force power bonus on shield and saber)

[Grassetblag]

I've had force push crit for close to 1500 on Ops bosses, which makes it a decent low rage/cooldown dependent option.

 

I find i will fit one in early in a fight instead of a vicious strike, when i am high in rage but have a spare gcd before SA or any other option is up.

[Aaoogaa]

Push should be used in pve to:

1 - position mobs for better ae.

2 - throw mobs off cliffs

3 - remove a mobs damage on you for a few seconds (best used when a wall is behind them so they are still in range

4 - As a threat generator on a boss...since they are immune to the actual push effect but take the damage.

5 - annoy melee DPS.

 

Tell your friend to guardian leap a friendly and then force leap back to the mob if he wants to generate more focus. He can generate just as much though with a lightsaber throw.

[Apollodorus]

Good uses for Force Push while in group:

* To push an add towards a group of adds or away from CC to make AOE easier.

* To push something off a cliff.

* To push something away from a healer, etc.

* As an emergency interrupt.

 

Since it's often followed up with Saber Throw and Force Leap (ie: free focus), YES it can be a excellent threat generator, BUT it's usally more trouble than its worth (for the reasons others have mentioned). Melee dps hate it.

[SFC-Lawndart]

i use it for extra damage on hm bosses as well as force choke... Well because if everything else is on cd that extra dps helps

 

+1 qfe