Scoundrel Is a Joke

[ocping]

It wont be the same at 50 trust me. I've yet to be destroyed by a lone Ops and I'm a sawbones healer. Then again I dont hang around to fight the good ones, the bad ones I kill, the good ones I run from and since I can CC them back, heal and flee they dont kill me without an assist in some form. They can make my life horrid, but they dont kill me.

 

You going to see a HUGE hp jump when you hit 50 that has an immediate effect on a burst class like OPs. For example as a healer sawbones I run a little over 20,000 hp in PvP. Your burst means less when you have to chew through that. New 50's in terrible gear you may be able to gank still .. but you wont face many of them in the 50's bracket.

 

Sorry I can kill most Sawbones no problem.

 

But ofc, this is only because I've played Sawbones myself.

 

How to kill Ops/sawbones: Save your burst for <30%.

[Bbizzle]

You need to add: If played well (against scrubs), they are still very good.

 

 

 

Over-reaction. Just be more opportunist. Thats what the class was made for. Popping at inconvienent times for the opposing players. If you wanna run around and top charts and do stuff like that roll a sorc or sage. They aoe just exhaling.

 

A good op will just wait around for someone to do something stupid, burn thier CDs whatever and just kill them in 5 globals, Even good players have to pop all thier **** sometimes. Just have patience and watch the fights.

 

Note: If that extended L2P was too hard to put into effect in game. You could also just only pop on people with 1/3 thier health.

 

Also, Ops and scoundrels. Stop being babies. "Omg Im gonna have to focus fire with other players and coordinate with teamplay like everyone else. Why the hell would I want to do that? this is total ******** I cant crit for 9k anymore on my opener!"

 

You can still open on people for 4500-5k depending on targets, Stop popping on tanks and learn to choose your targets wiser. In terms of game balance, you shouldnt be able to kill someone who has 8300 armor in 5 seconds alone.

[Dlema]

Scoundrels and Ops are downright amazing.

 

I remember when people were laughing about how bad Sentinels were... before people learned how to actually play them. If you aren't gosh darn terrible, then you can top the damage charts easily.

 

The problem is that people don't know how to pick their fights. They see a big zergball and they think, 'Hey, I'm going to go jump in that for no particular reason, because Scoundrels were designed to counter melee classes or something...'

 

Nope. Do something useful for your team. Find a ranged DPS or a healer and **** up it's day. You can permanently lock down a healer until it's dead without breaking a sweat, and if you know how to interrupt, stun, and slow, then ranged DPS classes are a joke.

 

If you're trying to kill PowerTechs, Vanguards, Juggernauts, Guardians, then you should already know why you're underperforming. Scoundrels can stealth. This gives you the option to pick your fights. Don't just jump in with 4 skills bound, and try and kill whatever walks in your direction.

 

Tl;DR, Don't be bad and you won't do bad.

 

Well said mate. OPS are still extremely viable in pvp whether ur dps or a healer.

[Forthehonor]

Il throw my 2 cents in here, i myself have a half cent half champ geared operative, and i find that i can destroy just about all the republic healers on my servers(mostly cause they lack gear but still) and yes i do normally top the damage charts, and get 6-8 medals.

 

I love operatives as they are right now, i don't think its a problem with the class, its a problem with the warzones, aldaerean and voidstar are well designed and well balanced warzones, but failball......that's a whole other mater, any class that doesn't have a gap closer in this warzone gets royaly ****ed by anybody with a little skill, your chasing a ball carrier on the catwalks?GET KNOCKED INTO PIT AND MURDERED MY RANGED. To make things worse we don't even have a knockback so we cant do the same to other classes.

 

If failball gets fixed, operatives would be balanced in my opinion, but if failball keeps its current form, operatives REALLY need a gap closer.

 

p. s. for hutball to be "fixed" in my opinion, they would have to:

1) add a much faster route from pit into catwalks, or just remove the catwalks and make the whole warzone flat.

2) Remove all the fires+rng vents + acid pits, and yeah that's about it...

Edited February 28, 2012 by Forthehonor

[DarffSodius]

Scoundrel healers suck at everything compared to Sorcs, Scoundrel DPS is the worst PvE DPS, but it's okay in PvP. Middle of the pack basically. It's arguable which class is the weakest in game atm between Scoundrel and Gunslinger. Gunslinger pros are good PvE DPS and mediocre in PvE. I think it's safe to say Scoundrel is the worst class.

 

Scoundrels (sawbones) make far better tank healers, Sage/Sorc are ofc better focused on groups.

 

Gunslinger has rediculous damage. If a gunslinger in a WZ aint put under pressure hes gonna rip people apart.

 

Scoundrel(scrapper) has some real nice burst damage(i can rip Healers a new one in just a few moves), and are a lot more sustainable than previously, anyone that cries to bring back the old burst damage needs a re-think on thier class, the new mechanics mean that we no longer have to worry about a fulkl resolve bar after 1 hit. So no, Scoundrels clearly are not the worst class by far, I wouldnt want to play anything else.

 

As for pve dps, well yeah, we kinda suck, but it does get a little easier with gear and decent energy management.

[Karizza]

I agree with the majority. This class was a one trick pony . The pony has since been shot out from under the class, and it is now medicore at best for burst. Sustained damage does not exist unless white damage is considered good sustained damage. Energy recovery is awful. It only takes the use of 2 abilities in a row to drop under 50% and gain slower. This class was designed to be in close and personal and use dirty fighting after burst was landed. A pistol whip and punch half empties the bar. Dodge hardly works.

 

This class was misjudged because of high geared scou/ops preying on fresh 50's that had no gear. I am currently playing in a healing spec and even that is 3rd rate in comparison to other healers. The class needs a good review and changes made. It is almost not worth playing the class. PvE the class lacks dps and is not wanted for group encounters.

 

Last in PvP DPS

Last in Healing ability

Last in PvE DPS

Easiest class to kill in comparable gear

 

About says it all

[Forthehonor]

Scoundrels (sawbones) make far better tank healers, Sage/Sorc are ofc better focused on groups.

 

Merc healers are by far the best tank healers, the operative healing is trying to fill a niché, that doesn't exist, namely moderate healing over time, no burst healing to speak about.

 

If they buffed the hots maybe a casted hot, it would make it more balanced, but would easily tip the balance of overpowered.

[Bbizzle]

I agree with the majority. This class was a one trick pony . The pony has since been shot out from under the class, and it is now medicore at best for burst. Sustained damage does not exist unless white damage is considered good sustained damage. Energy recovery is awful. It only takes the use of 2 abilities in a row to drop under 50% and gain slower. This class was designed to be in close and personal and use dirty fighting after burst was landed. A pistol whip and punch half empties the bar. Dodge hardly works.

 

This class was misjudged because of high geared scou/ops preying on fresh 50's that had no gear. I am currently playing in a healing spec and even that is 3rd rate in comparison to other healers. The class needs a good review and changes made. It is almost not worth playing the class. PvE the class lacks dps and is not wanted for group encounters.

 

Last in PvP DPS

Last in Healing ability

Last in PvE DPS

Easiest class to kill in comparable gear

 

About says it all

 

I've seen Ops heal for 750k and be nearly impossible to take down with a good tank guard. Them and commandos are good heal classes, Sages and sorcs were just rediculous. And there were alot of exploits that allowed them more numbers and burst healing.

 

Hell I can think of something right now thats a heal exploit for sages thats still not fixed, but were not allowed to post exploits on the forums

[Kyrandis]

Gunslingers outnumber Scoundrels(They are now the least played class) on my server.

[Danscall]

Personally, I think the Scoundrel is fine. A Guildmate of mine was doing some utterly staggering DPS as his scoundrel; so I rolled one to give it a try and I think it's pretty much spot on. The team utility is also there, just in a way people don't seem to be expecting;

 

Scoundrels are like the assassin in GW, they're squishy and relatively immobile, but the entire point is that you have one kill that is all but guaranteed against the high value targets. Hang back as your team engages, then walk up to the healer and shove a shotgun up his backside. If you're equally geared and know what you're doing, he's going down, hard. Even if he doesn't though, he's sure as hell not healing anyone else for a while. THAT'S the utility of the scoundrel; you can shut down the opposing teams healer, and that often decides the fight as a whole.

 

Once you've taken him out, yes, you're probably screwed. Hit the emergency stealth, cleanse, and run like merry hell. With a bit of luck you can get your stealth back up so vengeance isn't rained down upon you and go help out the DPS. If not, oh well. Your team lost a DPS, their team lost their healer. That's an exchange anybody who knows anything about PvP would gladly take. Obviously if there's no healer, pick your targets wisely based on a ratio of value to squishiness. Tanks are hard to kill, and not valuable targets, so leave them alone. Sages/Sorcs are high value and relatively squishy, so go get them.

 

I think the Scoundrel (and Sith Mirror, whatever it's called) take some getting used to, but I really disagree with the idea that they're a joke. It's the most fun I've ever had in PvP, and I certainly don't have trouble taking people down.

[geflin]

Since Huttball is the ONLY WZ that seems to pop you can really see the problems with the operative.

 

In the group game if you try and stick with the pack you'll have a bad experience.

- If you burst a target and anyone interrupts you or heals the target there goes the kill

- Once out of stealth operative DPS is terrible and survivability even worse

 

If you stick to the edges of combat

- you'll get good medal counts but you won't be helping your team

- killing wounded or solo plays sends them back to the start to defend against YOUR ball carrier (not helpful at all)

 

Operatives need better sustain for PvP and PvE.

 

It would be nice if the DoT spec was changed

- cull should have a 20M range

- weakening blast should have a 20M range and give dot ticks a chance (small) to grant tactical advantage

Edited February 28, 2012 by geflin

[Joms]

I die a little inside when i do first shoot and it crits for 3500 and some tank turns around and jump and hit me for 5000.... i mean really i have to be in stealth, behind the target, use adrealine and use matrix.... all he has to do is press one button... game is brooken.

[Affics]

Merc healers are by far the best tank healers, the operative healing is trying to fill a niché, that doesn't exist, namely moderate healing over time, no burst healing to speak about.

 

If they buffed the hots maybe a casted hot, it would make it more balanced, but would easily tip the balance of overpowered.

^This.

[aypolo]

I agree with the majority. This class was a one trick pony . The pony has since been shot out from under the class, and it is now medicore at best for burst. Sustained damage does not exist unless white damage is considered good sustained damage. Energy recovery is awful. It only takes the use of 2 abilities in a row to drop under 50% and gain slower. This class was designed to be in close and personal and use dirty fighting after burst was landed. A pistol whip and punch half empties the bar. Dodge hardly works.

 

This class was misjudged because of high geared scou/ops preying on fresh 50's that had no gear. I am currently playing in a healing spec and even that is 3rd rate in comparison to other healers. The class needs a good review and changes made. It is almost not worth playing the class. PvE the class lacks dps and is not wanted for group encounters.

 

Last in PvP DPS

Last in Healing ability

Last in PvE DPS

Easiest class to kill in comparable gear

 

About says it all

 

this 100%

[islander]

Threads like this make me sad.

 

If played well, they are still very good.

 

Big if in most cases...

 

This.

 

Scoundrels are effective in close. I know, I personally get smacked around by them on occasion. Then again, most of the Repub PvPers on my server are quality.

 

I will agree about the Huttball exception mentioned above though. Huttball definitely favors some classes and specs over others. As a sorc full healer myself (I don't use a pvp spec - I use full 31 point heals and just play support guy) I find healing in huttball brutal. Fortunately, bubbles count as healing. Only saving grace.

Edited February 28, 2012 by islander

[Dissentus]

Operative/scounderal are at the bottom of the barrel for pve content, at least endgame content. I think operative/scounderal is more of a pvp class (like rogue in WoW, witch elf in WAR, and assassin in Aion).

 

Just because it's a "rogue" class, does not make it a pvp class. They do not balance things that way. They already stated they want all dps classes in a similar range. If it is falling behind in pve, they will buff it. Not to mention, you are so very wrong about the rogue in WoW. They were the kings of single target dps for years in pve raid content.

[Niaoru]

Just because it's a "rogue" class, does not make it a pvp class. They do not balance things that way. They already stated they want all dps classes in a similar range. If it is falling behind in pve, they will buff it. Not to mention, you are so very wrong about the rogue in WoW. They were the kings of single target dps for years in pve raid content.

 

Can't tell who's falling behind in PvE DPS without a combat log. >:|

[vedranpauk]

I play mirror class Operative. Here is my hints to you:

 

 

dude get 50 plx...

[Metalmac]

I can tell you in PVP as a Sawbones who gets killed the most.

 

Sawbones has little to do when attacked and I suffer 8 kinds of DoTs everytime I heal.

 

The sad part is my Vital Shot does bleed effects that can be purged or cleansed.

 

Yet I have to just eat any Force User Dots. How is this even remotely fair?

[Thoriusx]

Hmm as a scoundrel you should be able to purge all dots because of the lucky dodge passive ability....

[Howbadisbad]

To all you ops/scoundrels that are unhappy with your tune I'm willing to give you my sharpshooter-slinger for a spin . He's very OP. Just make sure you keep him away of ops/scoundrels or sorcs/sages or melee and you'll be fine .

 

Seriously now, Scoundrels/ops have enough burst to burn healing classes (maybe not the trooper/mirror) in one run and needs to use vanish for a second run on the more tank-er classes. I know I need to L2P but still in my scrub experience my slinger is getting creamed a lot by those classes, so your whining about those needing a buff will get no sympathy from me, sorry .

 

 

I lol'd hard.

 

Equally geared Sorcs and Mercs will never drop to an Operative 1v1 unless they are bad. Their sustained damage makes healers /laugh.

[Teabaker]

Something you people forget is that Scoundrel/Operative is maybe okay/strong in 1v1. However, they suck in Group Fight. Medium Armor, no Gap Closer, no strong defensive Cooldowns, Melee.

 

And who the hell cares about 1v1? With Rated Warzones this Game will be all about Group PvP and in those a Scoundrel/Operative is not nearly as good as a Marauder. Both bring pure Damage. However, Marauder has a Healing Debuff, very strong defensive Cooldowns, Gapcloser and strong Group Buffs.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Teabaker

[Haystak]

Hmm as a scoundrel you should be able to purge all dots because of the lucky dodge passive ability....

 

It should but for some reason has a tendancy to not function as intended.

 

Not related to the quote but directly related to the thread. I believe scoundrels fill the role of assassins pretty good, I am happy with the DPS I put out in BZ's, and overall I do exceptionally well in PvP situations. If your having that much trouble in BZ's you are probably facing some effective premades, and I have been the victim of being on the wrong side of a premade enough times, I do know that the feeling can be quite daunting. If im on the right path, you probably feel your game is at its prime, and you "know how to play your class". Problem is not everyone on your team is probably at the same skill level, gear level, or whose group makeup doesnt work well with your toons stregnths.

 

If you want to improve your game, your going to have to find yourself some people to group with that enhance your play style, its the only way to improve your game, once youve mastered your own abilities. The next step is to find the group that takes those abilities and improves them even further implementing strategems that focus on burst damage, quick kills, and timed stuns.

 

That said, there are groups that even my best premade cannot beat reliably. Im not "the best" on my server, but im definatly not a pushover, and most certainly not a joke.

 

PvE wise, i cant quote on, from experience I feel like my class is hard to play, but until I start to see some reliable numbers show up, im unsure of where we stand in terms of sustained dps.

 

Keep the game as it is IMO. For the love of god though stop nerfing my burst dps. Anymore reductions and the Only people Ill be able to even kill are dumb inquisitors.

Edited February 28, 2012 by Haystak

[yukirshiro]

The problem with ops is they have no utility. AFAIK they are the only class in the game with no knockback, charge OR pull.

 

Give ops a short-duration CC reflect and they'd be ok. 4 sec duration, 2 min timer, reflects any CC cast during that period on the caster.

[HBninjaX]

riiight. they stun you, you break it, they stun you again now you're a sitting duck to get dps'd down without any chance to hit your oh crap buttons