hurriedcorgi Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 It's disgraceful, but it's what all MMO's do. People complain about not being able to have what everyone else has, etc. There's no longer any form of achievement or idolism in MMO's, that disappearred 5+ years ago IMO. Putting things up for actual "coin" in MMO's is a stupid idea. At the moment it works fine in SWTOR because everyone has so much money due to a poor economy design, but as soon as there are more and more things to buy, and not enough cash to buy them, gold farmers start to appear and the game goes down the toilet. As much as I think PvP gear and PvP stats is a stupid idea, at least you have to PvP in order to obtain it. It can't just be bought. That seperates those who put in effort/time and those who don't. But then again, eventually everyone has the same stuff because the cry bears come out of their caves and complain. I agree 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Are people not arguing that after a set amount of time rare items should become available to everyone? Yes, but the same patch that does that always puts in new hard-to-get items so you can still look elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnathis Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Which is awful because we don't want WoW Raiders. Those entitled little buttholes are the reason the arena in WoW hasn't been balanced in ages. LOL are you actually complaining about the pvp in wow being affected too much by pve players? EVERY time a class gets nerfed in WoW it's because pvp'ers complain about them in arenas or battlegrounds. EVERY time. Go read the wow forums, you will see almost all of the balance qq threads come from pvp'ers because in pve when a class is OP it really doesn't do anything but help your raid team. Furthermore, WoW is a PVE game with some PvP elements, not the other way around. Just be happy they even take pvp into consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 LOL are you actually complaining about the pvp in wow being affected too much by pve players? EVERY time a class gets nerfed in WoW it's because pvp'ers complain about them in arenas or battlegrounds. EVERY time. Go read the wow forums, you will see almost all of the balance qq threads come from pvp'ers because in pve when a class is OP it really doesn't do anything but help your raid team. Furthermore, WoW is a PVE game with some PvP elements, not the other way around. Just be happy they even take pvp into consideration. As a point of reference, the biggest change that wrecked PvP in WoW was a PvE change: giving every melee an interrupt and every healer a magic dispel. Every bad thing that happened in Cata arena balance stemmed from one of those two changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnathis Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Yes, but the same patch that does that always puts in new hard-to-get items so you can still look elite. Okay. I think it was you that used the carrot on a stick analogy, maybe not but someone did. My argument is that even during the initial hard to get phase, the reward, in this case the carrot, will be much smaller since people know ahead of time everyone's going to have a carrot a month or two down the road. This becomes boring and TOO much of a continual cycle. At least if some items stayed rare you can feel as if your time spent grinding or wiping to a boss to get them had some lasting significance. Now you;re more apt to go after that next rare item because maybe it will be something that a year from now is still cool to have. If everythings gonna be available in two months I'll just wait the two months and save myself the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plompkin Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 LOL are you actually complaining about the pvp in wow being affected too much by pve players? EVERY time a class gets nerfed in WoW it's because pvp'ers complain about them in arenas or battlegrounds. EVERY time. Go read the wow forums, you will see almost all of the balance qq threads come from pvp'ers because in pve when a class is OP it really doesn't do anything but help your raid team. Furthermore, WoW is a PVE game with some PvP elements, not the other way around. Just be happy they even take pvp into consideration. I'd like to not post the 4.1 and 4.2 patch notes to prove you wrong. But I will say this: Season 5 was the perfect example of Raiders complaining that their crap wasn't cool and good enough, and that spilled way over into PvP. Even a wrath baby like you should get that reference (if you weren't trudging through outlands during that time ). The "hardcore raiders" really screwed that one up. Also gotta love the gradual homogenization of classes because the raid crews were crying that their mages didn't have cleanse. That being said, TOR is NOT a PvE game with some PvP elements. We don't want to see the same degeneration into Raid or Die, which is why some people are a bit put off by the planned nerf to PvP gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Okay. I think it was you that used the carrot on a stick analogy, maybe not but someone did. My argument is that even during the initial hard to get phase, the reward, in this case the carrot, will be much smaller since people know ahead of time everyone's going to have a carrot a month or two down the road. This becomes boring and TOO much of a continual cycle. At least if some items stayed rare you can feel as if your time spent grinding or wiping to a boss to get them had some lasting significance. Now you;re more apt to go after that next rare item because maybe it will be something that a year from now is still cool to have. If everythings gonna be available in two months I'll just wait the two months and save myself the time. You underestimate some people's need to do things first, or have special stuff they can show off, even if for only 2 months. WoW's history most DEFINITELY contradicts your prediction. The carrot on a stick model works perfectly. Edited February 27, 2012 by Caelrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnathis Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 As a point of reference, the biggest change that wrecked PvP in WoW was a PvE change: giving every melee an interrupt and every healer a magic dispel. Every bad thing that happened in Cata arena balance stemmed from one of those two changes. Needed that melee change to make certain classes at least somewhat relevant. You can't have a melee without an interrupt in arena, it'll just get kited, cc'd and free casted on all day long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daMarek Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 1.2 is introducing a new tier of gear so bioware is doing this to catch everyone up. That's fine I dont mind catch-up gear, but don't do it with vanity special snowflake visual items. Put the stats on the default red/green crystals. And what does catching up have to do with special speeders? they wont go any faster.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Needed that melee change to make certain classes at least somewhat relevant. You can't have a melee without an interrupt in arena, it'll just get kited, cc'd and free casted on all day long. But the devs were clear that the change was done so that they could diversify 5-man PvE content because they could be assured interrupts and magic dispels would be present in every group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 That's fine I dont mind catch-up gear, but don't do it with vanity special snowflake visual items. Put the stats on the default red/green crystals. And what does catching up have to do with special speeders? they wont go any faster.. Greatly-wanted color crystals like purple, white and pink never should have been in the unique snowflake category in the first place. They weren't hard to get in any other star wars game. I used a purple saber in all the Jedi Knight games I played, both KOTOR games and SWG too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daMarek Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Greatly-wanted color crystals like purple, white and pink never should have been in the unique snowflake category in the first place. They weren't hard to get in any other star wars game. I used a purple saber in all the Jedi Knight games I played, both KOTOR games and SWG too. So the snowflake saber should be brown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 So the snowflake saber should be brown? Do you even care what color it is, as long as it's rare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daMarek Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 BioWare please stop this madness and tell us the patch notes are a typo or a bug and the crystal vensors will not go on live! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnathis Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) You underestimate some people's need to do things first, or have special stuff they can show off, even if for only 2 months. WoW's history most DEFINITELY contradicts your prediction. The carrot on a stick model works perfectly. WoW doesn't contradict my prediction at all unless you're talking about gear. Gear I don't have a problem with them making more accessible to people after a new tier comes out, it's necessary to keep people geared well enough to at least enter the new operations and flashpoints. However, WoW still has mounts and titles from vanilla, TBC ad wrath that are extremely difficult or time consuming to get. The time lost proto drakes spawn timer was never increased to my knowledge, ashes of al'ar's drop rate wasn't either. You still have to put in months worth of clearing MC in order to become exalted there (hydraxian waterlords? i forget). Yes some stuff was made easier to attain because you became strong enough to clear the content solo, but blizzard made sure this wasn't the case with everything and now those old school items that are still a PITA to get are legendary and still really stick out from the rest. People still talk about Ashes of Al'ar as if it's the greatest thing ever, I don't have one, but I think it's cool that theres a mount that has never gotten old and has retained it's value through multiple expansions. Edited February 27, 2012 by Arnathis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnathis Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 But the devs were clear that the change was done so that they could diversify 5-man PvE content because they could be assured interrupts and magic dispels would be present in every group. Okay but I really don't think it had a negative impact on pvp. I play a feral cat in wow, forever now I've been bottom of the list among melee dps because they can't buff me without making me OP in pvp, it drives me nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) WoW doesn't contradict my prediction at all unless you're talking about gear. Gear I don't have a problem with them making more accessible to people after a new tier comes out, it's necessary to keep people geared well enough to at least enter the new operations and flashpoints. WoW still has mounts and titles from vanilla, TBC ad wrath that are extremely difficult or time consuming to get. The time lost proto drakes spawn timer was never increased to my knowledge, ashes of al'ar's drop rate wasn't either. You still have to put in months worth of clearing MC in order to become exalted there (hydraxian waterlords? i forget). Yes some stuff was made easier to attain because you became strong enough to clear the content solo, but blizzard made sure this wasn't the case with everything and now those old school items that are still a PITA to get are legendary and still really stick out from the rest. People still talk about Ashes of Al'ar as if it's the greatest thing ever, I don't have one, but I think it's cool that theres a mount that has never gotten old and has retained it's value through multiple expansions. Did you even read the patch notes? The items on these vendors are almost entirely items that are IMPOSSIBLE to get, meaning they weren't released yet. They're not putting all the really hard-to-get speeders on there. Mostly what they did is make some speeders that you could already buy, cheaper. It ain't a big deal. Your rare speeder is safe. Edit: Here's the patch note: Several high end speeder models have been temporarily reduced in price until Game Update 1.2. Does that REALLY seem worth all the drama you're making about it? Temporarily cheaper speeders? Edited February 27, 2012 by Caelrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrLeee Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Ok... I've seen new vendors in public test server for 1.1.5 and I'm seriously terrified buy what's about to come. Looks like Bioware plans to screw everyone who achieved something. - VIP speeder from vendor wow really? Another reason I shouldn't have gotten the CE! I like to have rare things, but this will pretty much cancel that! The only game that I know of that kept CE things just to CE owners is Warcraft. You cannot get the CE pets STILL in the game. I cannot believe that BioWare is doing this crap!! What is the point to even collect things anymore or have a sense of accomplishment for? People choose not to do Ops, then they choose to not get Ops loot and "fluff" things. Why can't stuff just stay that way? It seems more like "Who ever has the most money in SWTOR Wins"!!! sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnathis Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Did you even read the patch notes? The items on these vendors are almost entirely items that are IMPOSSIBLE to get, meaning they weren't released yet. They're not putting all the really hard-to-get speeders on there. Mostly what they did is make some speeders that you could already buy, cheaper. It ain't a big deal. Your rare speeder is safe. Edit: Here's the patch note: Several high end speeder models have been temporarily reduced in price until Game Update 1.2. Does that REALLY seem worth all the drama you're making about it? Temporarily cheaper speeders? See what we get: - Magenta crystal schematics almost free from vendor. - Very rare Ops speeders for 1m from vendor - PvP and daily speeders for 1M+ from vendor - VIP speeder from vendor - all rare color crystals, including crystals from Karraga drops PvE sabers almost free from vendor. Or at higher cost, but still only credits - no achievement involved. ^is from the OP, what am I not understanding? Edit: Here's the patch note: Several high end speeder models have been temporarily reduced in price until Game Update 1.2. Does that REALLY seem worth all the drama you're making about it? Temporarily cheaper speeders? No it doesn't but the original post leads you to believe that Ops speeders were going to be available from vendors. Edited February 27, 2012 by Arnathis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 The OP has no idea what he's talking about. You can see for yourself what's on these two vendors and for what price here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnathis Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 The OP has no idea what he's talking about. You can see for yourself what's on these two vendors and for what price here: I have no problem with this then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlander Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) The entitlement generation has ruined mmo's period. Once was a time when ppl felt pride in earning something, now they all want it given to them. Edited February 27, 2012 by Badlander Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 The entitlement generation has ruined mmo's period. Once was a time when ppl felt pride in earning something, now they all want it given to them. Usually people don't need videogames to give a sense of self-worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethality Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Which is awful because we don't want WoW Raiders. Those entitled little buttholes are the reason the arena in WoW hasn't been balanced in ages. Ah, the defensive posture. Don't put your own inefficiencies and ineffectiveness on other people or other reasons. You are squarely to blame. Trust me, BioWare wants WoW Raiders. You can tell by how they designed their raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrJohn Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Does anyone know when I will be able to buy level 50? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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