What Class do you fear the most? How do you match up?

[RodCS]

its not like you can't use Target acquired + ambush + explosive probe as lethality too, or use Countermeasure to break snare/root (you don't need to waste a trinket on root, if you can use a 45 seg CD to break it)

 

there are lots of things you can do without Cull, diversion ins't a game winner here, and MM suffers more from roots than lethality. So yea, the fight is in Lethality is favor, even on Ilum.

 

Dots do alot more than 5k, btw.

[poulpatine]

its not like you can't use Target acquired + ambush + explosive probe as lethality too, or use Countermeasure to break snare/root (you don't need to waste a trinket on root, if you can use a 45 seg CD to break it)

Good snipers don't waste their cc breakers on a root in a 1v1, even specced MM. And good leth snipers shouldn't hardcast an ambush vs another sniper in a 1v1 unless their opponent ate a flash while not dotted without their cc breaker available, wich should never happen.

 

Very bad examples that made something clear. Both of you just don't know how this matchup works and never played against good opponents. But then again 99% of snipers are bad so...

[RodCS]

i will bait the troll

 

you play as MM (which is a horrible spec for pvp), and im the bad player?

 

im not talking about wasting a CC breaker on a root, im talking about using your Countermeasure to break a root (http://www.torhead.com/ability/7XHhsLY/counterstrike), something a MM can't do, so they will ALWAYS eat a full root. While you won't.

 

and why should i not cast an ambush when my Cull is on CD, if i can make it a 1.6seg cast ambush+explosive probe followed by a 2seg cast series of shot?

just for the sake of ****** the MM sniper.

 

 

diversion? big deal, my dots are still ticking (for about 700-800 crit), and its not even a -100% accuracy debuff.

keep doing your 2.5k snipes... its really good dude.

[mjAstro]

lol this is pretty comical. If I have NEVER lost to a marksman, playing BM geared people for a very long time, that should tell you something. I play on a high pop realm with a lot of good players and well known community people. Let me make you aware of something as well. I am not a random pug terribad, so stop trying to pull that argument off. I consistently dominate top players on my server all day long every day regardless of spec. I achieved top 10 world kills in wow. I know how to play these games.

 

You are STILL failing to understand the mechanics that separate the 2 specs in a fight and how it applies. I mean, I do not know how I can make it clearer. Marksman can in NO WAY, out do a leth. It makes NO SENSE mechanically or practically. You keep trying to say marksman can do to leth the same thing leth does. Which makes zero sense because they play as polar opposites. I mean you are just making yourself look stupid here. It is not rocket science, its common sense.

 

And finally, why on earth would you even try to use Ilum pvp as an example for ANYTHING pvp related? Not that it even matters, because the same **** applies, but COME ON. Ilum is one of the biggest blunders in this game.

[poulpatine]

Sorry but you don't bait the troll if you're trolling. So i'll try to take you seriously and act like you were serious. And the result will be the same.

 

1 Reading comprehension much ? You talked about wasting a trinket a root, meaning it crossed your mind somehow.

 

2 I switch specs a lot. 70% of the time i spec leth. i'm not even mm speced right now. And mm spec can still shine.

 

3 to get those ambush cast times you need reactive shot for ambush (and it's less than 1.6) or insane amounts of alacrity, and 2s for sos really ? If you have reactive shot you have diversion and yes you hardcounter the mm sniper. And you won't be able to cover to put pressure remember ? So no explo probe, no ambush. You said you were leth, not hybrid, pointless to laze loL. Fact is, even with the 2mn alacrity cd & alacrity talent you don't get those cast times.

 

4 But dude, snipe sucks, you only use it to proc FT. And keep dreaming you won't get 800 dot crits.

 

Yep, totally serious... Never did i try to troll once, but you think you're better playing the joking/troll guy when you're toasted and lack arguments.

 

@mjAstro : Nonsense much ? We're talking about a duel scenario. Facts : you will never have full cds vs a full cd for duels in warzones. NEVER. True 1v1s are rare. You will get them if you are doing your dailies in ilum, be it in the pvp subzone or not. It's the best freaking example i could use. And btw i'm queen elizabeth and got 2950 rating in wow for 7 years straight., so it means i must be right, right ? And i never lost to any sniper, being either MM, leth, or leth/eng. Doesn't mean i'll try to fight a MM sniper in an open area and expect to win.

 

edit : I think people reading this thread will have a good laugh, but not the reasons you think.

Edited February 26, 2012 by poulpatine

[mjAstro]

And why would I stand around and let you abuse LoS to kill me? If we're fighting in a place that you can obviously LoS my shots, I'm not going to chase you in circles. I'm going to move somewhere else where you have to get in LoS if you want to fight me and kill your teammates. If you consider chasing me a good use of your time, have at it. If you're fighting a Marks Sniper in say, the Pit in Huttball where there are LoS obstacles everywhere, yeah you'll probably win. Anywhere else the Marks Sniper can just reposition to mitigate your advantage.

 

Also, you're not killing a decent Marks Sniper without Cull. What are you going to do? Let your two dots deal 5k damage to me over 20 seconds while you strafe spam Overload Shot? If you consider killing a bad player who just stands there and takes it for about 30 seconds a productive use of your time, more power to you.

 

Marks vs Lethality is usually a fairly even matchup if both Snipers are good, I've been on both sides of it. It's definitely nowhere near the curb stomp you seem to think it is. Marks tends to have an advantage in a 1v1 with any class that isn't a hard counter though, because Diversion is just amazing.

 

Wow...just wow. I do not get what makes you think you can even fight a leth sniper without them getting off a cull. Its mind boggling. You think dots do just 5k over 20 sec? lol. You clearly have no idea on how this works, which is just plain sad. "IF I COULD FIGHT A MARKS SNIPER WITHOUT THEM USING AMBUSH/FT I WOULD WIN." See the issue here?

 

I mean you must be terrible at leth, no surprise tbh since 99% of snipers think they are good but in fact are terrible.

 

Do you really understand how leth works? Your positioning as marks is so irrelavant because leth can move and shoot, move and shoot. By the time you try and get off any significat damage you will have to move. It doesnt matter the warzone, it is all the same. The only way a marks can beat a leth is if the leth sits and lets you be an immobile turret. It is such a joke.

[mjAstro]

Sorry but you don't bait the troll if you're trolling. So i'll try to take you seriously and act like you were serious. And the result will be the same.

 

1 Reading comprehension much ? You talked about wasting a trinket a root, meaning it crossed your mind somehow.

 

2 I switch specs a lot. 70% of the time i spec leth. i'm not even mm speced right now. And mm spec can still shine.

 

3 to get those ambush cast times you need reactive shot for ambush (and it's less than 1.6) or insane amounts of alacrity, and 2s for sos really ? If you have reactive shot you have diversion and yes you hardcounter the mm sniper. And you won't be able to cover to put pressure remember ? So no explo probe, no ambush. You said you were leth, not hybrid, pointless to laze loL. Fact is, even with the 2mn alacrity cd & alacrity talent you don't get those cast times.

 

4 But dude, snipe sucks, you only use it to proc FT. And keep dreaming you won't get 800 dot crits.

 

Yep, totally serious... Never did i try to troll once, but you think you're better playing the joking/troll guy when you're toasted and lack arguments.

 

@mjAstro : Nonsense much ? We're talking about a duel scenario. Facts : you will never have full cds vs a full cd for duels in warzones. NEVER. True 1v1s are rare. You will get them if you are doing your dailies in ilum, be it in the pvp subzone or not. It's the best freaking example i could use. And btw i'm queen elizabeth and got 2950 rating in wow for 7 years straight., so it means i must be right, right ?

 

lol are you for real? Seriously? WOW. I have 1 v 1s in every warzone, and I always have my CDs up, not like it matters because even without them I destroy marks players. Perhaps you should be using yours more wisely Secondly, there is proof I am a worldclass player, so I do not get why you are trying to discredit that. When you get top 10 world kills there is generally a record of it. Just saying... You are grasping at draws buddy.

Edited February 26, 2012 by mjAstro

[RodCS]

Sorry but you don't bait the troll if you're trolling. So i'll try to take you seriously and act like you were serious. And the result will be the same.

 

1 Reading comprehension much ? You talked about wasting a trinket a root, meaning it crossed your mind somehow.

 

2 I switch specs a lot. 70% of the time i spec leth. i'm not even mm speced right now. And mm spec can still shine.

 

3 to get those ambush cast times you need reactive shot for ambush (and it's less than 1.6) or insane amounts of alacrity, and 2s for sos really ? If you have reactive shot you have diversion and yes you hardcounter the mm sniper. And you won't be able to cover to put pressure remember ? So no explo probe, no ambush. You said you were leth, not hybrid, pointless to laze loL. Fact is, even with the 2mn alacrity cd & alacrity talent you don't get those cast times.

 

4 But dude, snipe sucks, you only use it to proc FT. And keep dreaming you won't get 800 dot crits.

 

Yep, totally serious... Never did i try to troll once, but you think you're better playing the joking/troll guy when you're toasted and lack arguments.

 

@mjAstro : Nonsense much ? We're talking about a duel scenario. Facts : you will never have full cds vs a full cd for duels in warzones. NEVER. True 1v1s are rare. You will get them if you are doing your dailies in ilum, be it in the pvp subzone or not. It's the best freaking example i could use. And btw i'm queen elizabeth and got 2950 rating in wow for 7 years straight., so it means i must be right, right ? And i never lost to any sniper, being either MM, leth, or leth/eng. Doesn't mean i'll try to fight a MM sniper in an open area and expect to win.

 

edit : I think people reading this thread will have a good laugh, but not the reasons you think.

 

okay dude, im sorry then.

 

btw you can get those cast times if you pop Alacrity relic + Target acquired + the alacrity talent from leth tree

Edited February 26, 2012 by RodCS

[poulpatine]

So you do 1v1s or soloplay in warzones when i try to burst healers, pass the ball and root/snare their carriers. Top ranked player. Rofl. My opnion of you degrades more and more. Srsly you made my day lol. Ho man you'll enjoy your gosu dot spec when you'll get full dispelled by competent players in rated wz.

 

And no sorry i never get fair 1v1s in wzs, i alway use my cc breaking abilities to protec the doors/turrets when people cc me. At least in ilum you can't bump melees in fires/acid.

[Veala]

Wow...just wow. I do not get what makes you think you can even fight a leth sniper without them getting off a cull. Its mind boggling. You think dots do just 5k over 20 sec? lol. You clearly have no idea on how this works, which is just plain sad. "IF I COULD FIGHT A MARKS SNIPER WITHOUT THEM USING AMBUSH/FT I WOULD WIN." See the issue here?

 

I mean you must be terrible at leth, no surprise tbh since 99% of snipers think they are good but in fact are terrible.

 

Do you really understand how leth works? Your positioning as marks is so irrelavant because leth can move and shoot, move and shoot. By the time you try and get off any significat damage you will have to move. It doesnt matter the warzone, it is all the same. The only way a marks can beat a leth is if the leth sits and lets you be an immobile turret. It is such a joke.

 

Your reading comprehension is incredibly poor. In your post that I quoted, you're the one who said Lethality could beat Marks without even using Cull:

 

Dude you are still missing the main points separating the 2 sniper specs. Marksman has activation times, leth does not, except for cull which you do not even need to kill a marksman.

 

I was pointing out how ridiculous that is in the post that you quoted. The more you post, the less intelligent you seem, which makes it difficult to take you seriously.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Veala

[mjAstro]

So you do 1v1s or soloplay in warzones when i try to burst healers, pass the ball and root/snare their carriers. Top ranked player. Rofl. My opnion of you degrades more and more. Srsly you made my day lol. Ho man you'll enjoy your gosu dot spec when you'll get full dispelled by competent players in rated wz.

 

And no sorry i never get fair 1v1s in wzs, i alway use my cc breaking abilities to protec the doors/turrets when people cc me. At least in ilum you can't bump melees in fires/acid.

 

lol so just because I get in 1v1s each game I do not kill the right people? LoL wow. Gotta love those awesome assumptions! It is so terribly funny. You made zero points right there. Good Job! I maintain a 90% plus warzone record, solo q or premade. Pretty sure I know how to win.

Edited February 26, 2012 by mjAstro

[poulpatine]

And why would you focus a MM sniper on giradatta the hut ? They never get the ball. You can easily bump them and you should have healers nearby. The right people my ***. If you rolled sniper to dot and los people in huttballs you should've just rolled a sorc. Just saying.

 

Something crossed my mind. Maybe you don't have the skills needed to play mm or mm hybrids ? Which is why you bash the spec ? Considering the spec is still very strong 1v1 and all.

[mjAstro]

And why would you focus a MM sniper on giradatta the hut ? They never get the ball. You can easily bump them and you should have healers nearby. The right people my ***. If you rolled sniper to dot and los people in huttballs you should've just rolled a sorc. Just saying.

 

Something crossed my mind. Maybe you don't have the skills needed to play mm or mm hybrids ? Which is why you bash the spec ? Considering the spec is still very strong 1v1 and all.

 

Giradda the Hutt is a sever dude...Let me stop you right there. I will ignore the rest of that paragraph because it is retarded and makes no sense.

 

I can play marksman and own with it as well, however leth has far less drawbacks.

[poulpatine]

Oups my bad. So mm snipers suck on giradata the hut, thx for the info

 

 

No, you can't. It's mathematically impossible unless the Marks Sniper you're fighting is absolutely terrible. After seeing you seriously make a claim like that though, I see that I'm wasting my time here.

Yup. Edited February 26, 2012 by poulpatine

[jaakkeli]

If they had half a brain they'd just cleanse off your dots and obliterate you while you plink away at them.

 

Assassins seem to be the Death Knights of this game: there are more derp kid free kills among them than in any other class but when you meet a good one, they're both extremely hard to kill and extremely deadly.

[poulpatine]

You kite only if you can los, you don't kite a 35m ranged class mister genius. MM snipers won't stay in losable positions and won't follow you. It's not their jobs. The most you'll achieve is corrosive dart them before they back up while they instant sniped you + ft (if they have good position and camera awereness) and if you follow them to put more they will burst you down.

 

Welcome back to reality neo.

[Monkeybusiness]

Juggernaut/Marauder --> root exploit usage/defensive cds that are actually decent

 

Assassin/shadow --> Tank spec his just as hard as your average Grave/trace spammer

 

I never go toe to toe with an enemy, what a waste of energy.

[dutch-master]

As a Sorcerer I fear Assassin or Marrauders the rest are cake. As a Juggernaut I don't fear anybody, heals can be annoying though.

 

Snipers are only challenging in that I cant force charge them.

[RodCS]

As a Sorcerer I fear Assassin or Marrauders the rest are cake. As a Juggernaut I don't fear anybody, heals can be annoying though.

 

Snipers are only challenging in that I cant force charge them.

 

we are talking about lvl 50 pvp with BM/champion dudes.

[RodCS]

actually i use Weaking blast for the 9k damage culls, i think its better in a 1v1 situation than Interrogation probe.

(My damage done is higher with I.Probe, though... but my burst is much worse)

[GFreeGamer]

Except they can't clear the DoTs.

 

Yes they can.

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/dEsVsc4/resilience

 

And the tank tree can extend it's effect to 5 seconds and reduce the CD to 45 seconds. It is the most crucial PvP ability Shadows, and thus, Assassins have, though I'm not sure what the Sin equivalent is.

[RodCS]

Lol, some of MjAstro's posts got deleted

[mBass]

Yes they can.

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/dEsVsc4/resilience

 

And the tank tree can extend it's effect to 5 seconds and reduce the CD to 45 seconds. It is the most crucial PvP ability Shadows, and thus, Assassins have, though I'm not sure what the Sin equivalent is.

 

Force shroud. That plus resilience make it incredibly hard to hurt an assassin while they beat on you with insane dps

[Noctournys]

you can't interrupt if they have cover up, and that smoke bomb doesn't break your entrench

So there is nothing they can really do, if you know what you are doing, its impossible to interrupt a Cull (unless they knockback/stun you, assuming you don't have entrench going on)

 

It absolutely does.

[Xavory]

There is really no such thing as a "fair 1v1" in WZs or Ilum. You never know whos CDs are down or whatever. If you want to talk about 1v1 prowess, then duel it up. Duels tell you where the class balance is 1v1.

 

Mercs and Snipers sitting in a perch blasting people from 100-0 isn't a 1v1. We have a dueling tournament on our server every Saturday. Snipers and Merc's haven't been doing so well, but the Pubs had a couple of these tournaments a while back and a Gunslinger won.

 

Most "top players" that I know of agree that in the right hands, a sniper/GS has amazing 1v1 potential. And I mean real 1v1's, as in full CD duels.