To put it gently, I agree with these guys..

[Wikileeks]

Your typical gamers nowadays are entitled, self-important, generally immature (at least as far as their public persona goes), unrealistic, and have no idea what they want out of a game. This isn't a troll or "rude behavior", it's just what I notice on a regular basis.

 

gen Y i think its called spoiled brats era!

[otakuon]

Look, any game community requires, you know, people willing to participate in said community. It will not form on its own. Most MMOs, including TOR, have many, many ways in which to join up with other players...permitted that you are willing to do so (they are MMOs after all).

 

So, instead of complaining about the lack of people willing to help you, why don't you use the LFG system that is there (and yes, it could use a lot of work, but it is there) or join a guild, or help people out with their quests/heroics, or engage in RP, or...any other myriad ways to join the community and take part in the social aspects of the game.

 

No MMO that wants to have mass appeal (something they all strive for) is going to force a player to have to be grouped with other players in order to actually play the game. Let's facet: many, many people want to play an MMO solo (which, yeah, seems to contradict the very nature of the genre). So all MMO developers are going to make sure that this significant player base is satisfied. It's up to us, the players, those of us that WANT to play the game as it is meant to be played, with other people, to actually go out and create the community and be helpful and engage our fellow players within the game.

Edited February 25, 2012 by otakuon

[Asavar]

Kinda makes me wonder. People have put up with far worse and even now tout how awesome it was. Has the gamer nation as a whole turned into such wusses?

 

Yes, yes it has.

 

If you can't handle bugs in a new game, mind you, an MMO, which will always have bugs (WoW STILL has bugs), then kindly leave and don't let the door hit you on the way out. Seriously.

[WhiskyJax]

The lack of reading comprehension never ceases to amaze me.

 

I'm not talking about content. I literally said "FEATURES".

 

Guild mechanics (and not just a bank), world event systems, LFG tools (note this doesn't have to be automated), mobile/web integration, achievement system, I could go on.

 

GW2 is coming out of the box with all of these. They will start with a more complete feature set. So the problem for TOR is they will always be playing catch-up in even the basic areas, even for games that come out after them!

 

And again, it would be different if they came out and said "we don't think those features fit in our game" at least there would be a decisive answer. But they DO want to bring all of these features, and so they really needed to be there at release to have the impact needed.

 

They want to bring those features in now because people threatened to leave because of a lack of these features. The game was not built with some of these features in mind. I believe they assumed they were going to attract more new players then old and tried to keep it simple ..

 

People were mad about no instance finder right off the bat on the first day, why does one need an instance finder the first week of launch in ANY game. You don't. The LFG tool was there but simple, probably because they expect a player base new to mmorpgs not a bunch of bitter old pros. And thats what some of us are.... bitter.

 

They made the game a little to easy to level, probably so as not to discourage new players to mmorpgs, which left it wide open for the hardcore players to blow through everything standing still. AND I DONT CARE WHAT YOU SAY, IF YOU PLAY MORE THEN 2-3 HOURS A DAY YOU ARE HARDCORE.

 

We are playing in a market when when a new expansion is released players are max level by the end of the day and the new dungeons are completed in less then a week. How exactly can one realistically combat that without alienating the rest of the player base, they can't. There is not a game on the market that can, including the "game that cannot be alluded to"

 

 

tdlr version: We are a spoiled, petty generation of gamers who get more enjoyment trashing games and the players who do enjoy them then actually playing them themselves.

[The_Old_One]

Look, any game community requires, you know, people willing to participate in said community. It will not form on its own. Most MMOs, including TOR, have many, many ways in which to join up with other players...permitted that you are willing to do so (they are MMOs after all).

 

So, instead of complaining about the lack of people willing to help you, why don't you use the LFG system that is there (and yes, it could use a lot of work, but it is there) or join a guild, or help people out with their quests/heroics, or engage in RP, or...any other myriad ways to join the community and take part in the social aspects of the game.

 

No MMO that wants to have mass appeal (something they all strive for) is going to force a player to have to be grouped with other players in order to actually play the game. Let's facet: many, many people want to play an MMO solo (which, yeah, seems to contradict the very nature of the genre). So all MMO developers are going to make sure that this significant player base is satisfied. It's up to us, the players, those of us that WANT to play the game as it is meant to be played, with other people, to actually go out and create the community and be helpful and engage our fellow players within the game.

 

 

Yes, I agree.

 

But I think we do need a little more incentive to those who are keen to team, as a reward for taking the steps to promote a sense of community. Of course such incentive, and thus reward, should in no way penalise solo players. That is why I suggest those rewards are given to benefit (further) team play.

[Loupe]

Look, any game community requires, you know, people willing to participate in said community. It will not form on its own. Most MMOs, including TOR, have many, many ways in which to join up with other players...permitted that you are willing to do so (they are MMOs after all).

 

So, instead of complaining about the lack of people willing to help you, why don't you use the LFG system that is there (and yes, it could use a lot of work, but it is there) or join a guild, or help people out with their quests/heroics, or engage in RP, or...any other myriad ways to join the community and take part in the social aspects of the game.

 

No MMO that wants to have mass appeal (something they all strive for) is going to force a player to have to be grouped with other players in order to actually play the game. Let's facet: many, many people want to play an MMO solo (which, yeah, seems to contradict the very nature of the genre). So all MMO developers are going to make sure that this significant player base is satisfied. It's up to us, the players, those of us that WANT to play the game as it is meant to be played, with other people, to actually go out and create the community and be helpful and engage our fellow players within the game.

 

Tho again I have tried these things. Because of how things flow there are many difficulties. Like the general proportion of levels in any given zone focused on the same objectives. Maybe tis just my luck at things or my scheduling. I play early afternoons and late evenings east coast. But my east coast server is always standard or light now. I think the most people I've ever seen was 150+ in fleet, and I spent hours looking for a group in my level doing the same content I was interested in.

[Genkin]

Tho again I have tried these things. Because of how things flow there are many difficulties. Like the general proportion of levels in any given zone focused on the same objectives. Maybe tis just my luck at things or my scheduling. I play early afternoons and late evenings east coast. But my east coast server is always standard or light now. I think the most people I've ever seen was 150+ in fleet, and I spent hours looking for a group in my level doing the same content I was interested in.

This isn't really a design problem. It's normal for low level content to empty out when the majority reaches max level. You find that in every MMO. I challenge you to go to lotro or WoW and go to a low level zone and find more than 5 people in it your level.

[Loupe]

This isn't really a design problem. It's normal for low level content to empty out when the majority reaches max level. You find that in every MMO. I challenge you to go to lotro or WoW and go to a low level zone and find more than 5 people in it your level.

 

I disagree. Clearly the leveling curve is too low, characters can max level way too fast. This is backed up by the crafting system and coincidental collection of resources to level skills on. Further most heroics and FPs are not tied into any plot or story creating natural choke points for all players.

[Zaskaszh]

They want to bring those features in now because people threatened to leave because of a lack of these features. The game was not built with some of these features in mind. I believe they assumed they were going to attract more new players then old and tried to keep it simple ..

 

People were mad about no instance finder right off the bat on the first day, why does one need an instance finder the first week of launch in ANY game. You don't. The LFG tool was there but simple, probably because they expect a player base new to mmorpgs not a bunch of bitter old pros. And thats what some of us are.... bitter.

 

They made the game a little to easy to level, probably so as not to discourage new players to mmorpgs, which left it wide open for the hardcore players to blow through everything standing still. AND I DONT CARE WHAT YOU SAY, IF YOU PLAY MORE THEN 2-3 HOURS A DAY YOU ARE HARDCORE.

 

We are playing in a market when when a new expansion is released players are max level by the end of the day and the new dungeons are completed in less then a week. How exactly can one realistically combat that without alienating the rest of the player base, they can't. There is not a game on the market that can, including the "game that cannot be alluded to"

 

 

tdlr version: We are a spoiled, petty generation of gamers who get more enjoyment trashing games and the players who do enjoy them then actually playing them themselves.

 

*Applause*

 

If you want a really succinct explanation to amaze your friends: http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19

[Irishbrewed]

I agree with that article/blog. 100%.

 

I will also add fragmented world was annoying, and very meh class designs... Cooldowns are lackluster..

Edited February 25, 2012 by Irishbrewed

[Drahh]

Kinda makes me wonder. People have put up with far worse and even now tout how awesome it was. Has the gamer nation as a whole turned into such wusses?

 

Idk. . .I think so many people who played this game, played WoW, a well polished game for so many years. Now so many players rushed to this game expecting it to be as good, but its not for them, and people are angry.

 

I can agree and disagree with people who dislike this game, just depends on the reason. Some are ridiculous and some are not.

 

When people say well WoW had seven years to polish there game, you need to give this game time to correct, I agree and I disagree.

 

I agree like all MMO's you will have some unexpected or over-looked problems, this game has it. But at the same time there are issues that just should not have been, tab targeting for example, this is your basic means of targeting, Bioware should never had this problem from the get go. Basically there are alot of problems Bioware should have learned after seven years of WoW's mistakes, but they didnt. Instead it feels like Bioware tried to fix things that were never broken.

[Jnaathra]

I could counter about 80 - 90 % of what they said so you wont mind if I dismiss a random blog.

 

You can counter all you want, but that is one of the most popular gaming blogs on the web. Them saying something like this is pretty damning.

[Kaelshi]

You can counter all you want, but that is one of the most popular gaming blogs on the web. Them saying something like this is pretty damning.

 

of course..pc gamer and EA monthly gave the game incredibly high marks.

 

I don't put stock in other people's personal opinions of a game but if you are one who does those 2 should probably rank higher than some blog by some guys.

 

Still - you should probably figure it out for yourself(as should everyone).

 

Some people don't like the game and then insist on screaming on the forums that the developers should do this and do that.

 

I enjoy the game very much and have had the opposite experience of the guys who posted the blog and population has been great on my server.

 

....why am I writing this...it's stupid under any circumstances to read a blog/magazine and then make a determination on the game of it? the op wants to agree with them thats great he's free to find a game he DOES enjoy and play that one.

[Quip]

Yet more evidence of what I'm stating R.E. gamers in general today. Gamers have always been consumers by simple virtue of the fact that we buy games. That makes us consumers automatically. Also, you use two of the modern gamer's favorite words; broken and useless. Every single MMO made in the last 10 years, including WoW, has been called broken and useless by the gaming community at some point, but if you just stop for one moment, you quickly realize that SWTOR isn't broken because 1.7 million people play it. Since it's not broken and 1.7 million people are playing it, it is by extension not useless. Gamers have to stop tossing words around that have nothing to do with their complaints.

 

Finally, these two statements need to be memorized by MMO gamers as a whole:

 

1- No MMO has ever been made which did not launch in a bug-ridden state.

2-No MMO will ever be made which will launch in a bug-free state.

 

 

Yet you lay out more pseudo-intellectual, self-important insults. You call everyone "entitled" and "immature" that doesn't share your zealous devotion to this particular product. Yet in your effort to display superiority you simply quote the same clap-trap that has been spouted in game forums for the same purpose with each new game: to insult people that criticise your chosen game. Personal attacks are the standard method of pointless people trying to prove a point.

 

For the record, I wasn't referring to TOR as broken. You might have noticed that if in your fervour you had bothered to read the whole post and accept the post's context instead of trying to apply your own context to the post in order to continue what is clearly a pointless debate.

[Jnaathra]

of course..pc gamer and EA monthly gave the game incredibly high marks.

 

I don't put stock in other people's personal opinions of a game but if you are one who does those 2 should probably rank higher than some blog by some guys.

 

Still - you should probably figure it out for yourself(as should everyone).

 

Some people don't like the game and then insist on screaming on the forums that the developers should do this and do that.

 

I enjoy the game very much and have had the opposite experience of the guys who posted the blog and population has been great on my server.

 

....why am I writing this...it's stupid under any circumstances to read a blog/magazine and then make a determination on the game of it? the op wants to agree with them thats great he's free to find a game he DOES enjoy and play that one.

 

Yeah like they are going to bad mouth their own game in any fashion.

[Aethyriel]

You can counter all you want, but that is one of the most popular gaming blogs on the web. Them saying something like this is pretty damning.

 

Seems like a WoW burnout to me those guys are having... just take a look at some of the stuff there like doing Deathwing over and over again rather than doing TOR ops... well, they have more complex bosses etc because it's not the starting raids that are easy by design so everyone can get through them. Or running Scholomance 100 times but not wanting to run FPs here... back in classic scholomance was awesome, yeah, I doubt anyone feels like this about the new dungeons though, after a while they just get broing, basically if you come from another mmo to do the same stuff in a different setting you might get bored.

 

No replayability is also a joke, showing how playing a Tauren Warrior and than not having fun playing an NE warrior is lose of replayability because it's the same... it's a joke, the classes are meant to be the same just with different animations and stories. As for making alts.. in WoW or really any other mmo you played the exact same content you've played before, here you have a different story at least for the 4 diferent base classes.

 

I agree a lot of the writing in the later levels was worse than in the starting zones, but I can't even remember what any of the zones in WoW had to offer lorewise and you can influence how things end for your character, that's something you never had the option to do in any other mmo, the outcome was a given 100% at a time, here, as in any other mmo, it does not have a direct effecte on anything, but you chose to let someone live or not, not the script, it's up to you.

 

Alright, crafting does suck, don't know a game (besides EVE but thatw asn't really your typical mmo to begin with) where crafting was actually awesome (except jewelcrafting/enchanting in WoW, but that wasn't interesting, but neccessary like biochem or cybertech are here).

 

SWTOR actually does a lot for the com. with the H2 or H4 quests where you need to group up, other games have only singleplayer quests all the way, of course you can also just play solo here, but it'S a choice, not a must, nobody can force you to be a part of a com and if they actually tried a lot of people that don't like playing with others all the time would leave.

 

For the feeling.. well, everyone gotta decide for themselfs, it's not something you can argue about. I personally like the feeling of tor, VA did a lot for me there, as did the stories that really made a con. to my char. for me whereas in other games it was just some toon with no "soul".

 

I always wonder what it is people actually want and they just say... better pvp or bugfixes... but everything else is fine or what now? I srsly wonder what people are expecting and I really doubt any of them know what they want... I think for most of them it was a poor choice to switch from active WoW subscriber to TOR sub. without giving it a break, if I played (I like the series) NBA2k11 for a whole year and than immediately switched to NBA2k12 I'd probably not like it either because it is still just basketball, just a little different.

 

What Tor could do to improve the game for me would be a better soundtrack that actually plays while on any world, that was really really good in WoW, the music.... brilliant.

[Yozbick]

Yes. I give you the MMO-Lite player base; they want it here, now and easy.

 

Quite the reverse... we got it too fast.

 

It took me 6 months to hit max level in vanilla WoW. I got two characters to max level (and capped several crafting professions) in 6 WEEKS of SWTOR.

 

That's the problem with SWTOR in a nutshell... most of the playerbase outleveled the content in their free month and found nothing left to do but reroll and do it all over again.

[Sathid]

The days of hardcore raiding is gone and in most cases that is a good thing,right now the only hardcore mmo raiding game is EQ2,i know many WoW players may beg to differ but trust me WoW is childs play to EQ2 raiding.

 

It was WoW that simplified and handed you things gift wrapped,it was WoW that changed the mmo market and their playerbase.

 

I have played EQ2 since launch and even they adopted some of the silly antics from WoW because of the unimaginitve,give me now,QQ,whinefest players.

 

However the problem whenever you have a very hardcore venue of a game you have the people that spend far too much time playing degrading others in the community,i know i was hardcore raider fabled gear every expansion dropping world mobs first,so been there done that,and to be honest most of those guys are jerks and i spent years around such players.

 

The era of HARDCORE has been over ever since WoW.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Sathid

[Denskoo]

Well for me personally:

 

Questing - I love the story lines.. significantly better than any other mmorpg I've played and the dialogue scenes just further enhance my feeling of being a part of the story even when the quest objectives are simple/repetitive. Yes, the writing could be better but what are we comparing it to? No other mmorpg even has such story involvement right now. Arguably, LOTRO has some great story feel but only for portions here and there. In SWTOR I find myself part of various stories most of the time. And I certainly never got bored on the way to 50.

 

Replayability - Already working on 2-3 alts at the same time. Some parts here and there are less interesting than the first time but overall I still am having a ton of fun. For one, taking the dark side route on everything (did all light side on my first 50) makes for quite a few fun changes in how stories end up. Especially if I make consistent answer choices to make my character's personality regardless of if there is a dark/light option or not.

 

Crafting - I partially agree in that crafting is too shallow. BUT I've gained endless benefits from armormech. My vanguard has it and it let me easily keep all of my companions geared up pretty well. Plus I was able to make myself some nice purples to use at 50 from schematics I learned from disassembling. I just wish it gave more clues on what items I can learn new schematics from when disassembled and which I can't.

 

Dungeons - Really.. WoW dungeons replayable? Really? I always had to hold back the vomit every time I used LFG because I was tired of them after the first couple of runs but needed to do them for the gear grind. I have enjoyed all of the SWTOR dungeons I've done so far though I don't expect to enjoy doing them repeatedly but that's that same with any mmo. However, I do enjoy the way combat flows a lot more in swtor than in WoW so that has helped for enjoying subsequent dungeon runs.

 

Endgame PvE and PvP - not much detail to comment on but I too don't like treadmills but swtor isn't any better/worse than the others out there. I'm just disappointed that it didn't take a different path than the traditional treadmill grind. As for PvP, I'm about ready to forever ignore PvP unless MMOs stop making pvp specific stats, pvp specific talents, and pvp specific gear progression. PvP is something I do with my existing PvE character. PvP is not something I should have to completely design my character to participate in. They need to create separate tournament style environments for those that enjoy form of PvP and leave normal/world pvp as some you do with your PvE character/gear.

 

How it Feels - once I set the skill queueing thing to 0 seconds, combat has felt much better. it feels great on my shadow. My vanguard has a few issues due to delays on initial damage. My sage is mostly smooth. And it has seemed to get better in time as it feels better now than it did in dec/jan.

 

I do agree that the swtor world(s) need more flavor filler to them, but I still can't find myself favoring WoW. That flavor stuff isn't nearly enough to make up for the lack of depth in the rest of WoW. At least not for me. But at least so far in swtor lacking that stuff hasn't prevented me from having a lot of fun.

 

Community - No you don't /have/ to depend on others, but I've found I enjoy the game a whole heck of a lot more when doing things with other people. I think lack of community is something stemming from the state of the players of these games more than the games themselves. I see zero community in WoW most of the time and it has plenty of people around. So I don't think more people around in swtor will fix the lack of community. Having more non-advancement/ non-progression things to do would certainly help though.

 

 

 

With all of that said, I was indeed disappointed that SWTOR didn't take an open world route rather than the more linear design. There's almost no room for exploration in swtor and no point to in the few areas you can freely wander. I had hoped swtor would be a next generation of mmorpg but it didn't release like that. It's still of the same generation as games like Aion/Rift/etc. but with it's "thing" being the dialogue story scenes.

 

But I still have hopes of improvements in time... we'll just have to see how it goes. I should have plenty to keep me busy until the next big patch at least.

[Sathid]

The first major quest line for example in EQ2 Fire and Ice to get your prismatics was excellent and there was no shiny dot on the map,one you had to collect runes from every zone and then it was a succesion of raids,this was no easy task and that was in the launch,

 

Leveling,you just didnt travel alone often and sure as hell never went into any zones alone unless they were far below your level,you were forced to group for the most part,but they did away with that later with the QQ,whinefest players,travel times Call of the Veteran and numerous other changes to placate that play style not all were bad but the people who whined and ask for many of the changes got them and they changed the game forever and fact is most of them most likely left too so what good was the changes?.

 

SWTOR gives you an option which is nice,but alittle too much option in solo imo.

 

EDIT:And lastly im here playing this game and enjoying it very much and this has been by far the best launch of any game that i have played.

 

I just hope there is ways to make the community more cohesive and fun,i do not want a repeat of LEET gear players and people locked out of stuff due to things being so hard you need Guild Connect to win or people using ACT and poo pooing ppl on their dps and heals.

 

I also do not want things just handed to people,dont MAKE EVERYTHING EASY BIOWARE,i cannot stress that enougth,find a MEDUIM.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Sathid

[Lethality]

Yes, yes it has.

 

If you can't handle bugs in a new game, mind you, an MMO, which will always have bugs (WoW STILL has bugs), then kindly leave and don't let the door hit you on the way out. Seriously.

 

Bugs != Features.

 

The fact is everything he wrote in that article are what MOST players are feeling deep down inside... and those that don't are in denial.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Lethality

[Lord_Karsk]

All valid points.+ i have alot more of them as to the reason i unsubbed.

Alot of players ingame feels this way.How can we stay on when there is no massive to

the game.No huge world that is alive were the players hang around and fight and play

minigames etc.Standing around in fleet next to the daily pvp box is not my idee of endgame.

[KAAZOO]

Your typical gamers nowadays are entitled, self-important, generally immature (at least as far as their public persona goes), unrealistic, and have no idea what they want out of a game. This isn't a troll or "rude behavior", it's just what I notice on a regular basis.

 

And yet your opinion is as meaningless as theirs....

[KAAZOO]

It's funny that people keep saying things like this about TOR. TOR is the easiest, most casual friendly MMO I've ever played. It's a complete joke. Anyone who thinks they are "hardcore" because they pay to beta test a game is delusional.

 

Ok so what is hardcore?

 

tatoos?

 

Scars?

 

Someone in a wheelchair?

 

A job?

 

Paying for your own game time?

[Jaick]

Another idiot raging in a blog. Nothing new.