"The Qyzen Fess Problem" -- Am I alone?

[Dayfax]

The Lizard is annoying and slow, but I'd rather have a conservative kind of pet AI.

 

In other words, I'm just glad I can jump off a ledge without the pet taking the long way around and aggroing every mob within 200 meters.

 

Or a pet that, when having killed the current targets, takes it upon himself to run to the far side of the room and begin attacking a fresh group.

 

Micro-managing is a p-i-t-a, but preferable to a companion with a will of its own.

[Calastrophe]

The problem exhibits precisely because I don't have a target, because i'm focusing on keeping my party alive![i/].

 

Well technically even healers have a target -> whomever you are healing. Given this, its actually quite easy to set up a quick set of keybindings to redirect your companions attack target. How?

 

Step 1 - enable focus targets in your options

Step 2 - bind your companions attack to a key

Step 3 (optional) - rebind the "target of target" key to something you can quickly press. By default its alt+t, but if you rebind it to a key right next to the keybind in Step 2 then you can really quickly order your companion to attack your healing target's target.

 

A lot of people don't realise that focus target functionality exists in the game, its just not available to be displayed in UI like other MMOs. I believe this is coming in the UI revamp though.

[ExiledinElysium]

Well technically even healers have a target -> whomever you are healing. Given this, its actually quite easy to set up a quick set of keybindings to redirect your companions attack target. How?

 

Step 1 - enable focus targets in your options

Step 2 - bind your companions attack to a key

Step 3 (optional) - rebind the "target of target" key to something you can quickly press. By default its alt+t, but if you rebind it to a key right next to the keybind in Step 2 then you can really quickly order your companion to attack your healing target's target.

 

A lot of people don't realise that focus target functionality exists in the game, its just not available to be displayed in UI like other MMOs. I believe this is coming in the UI revamp though.

 

Gotta be honest with you, I have no idea what "focus targets" means. I will say, though, that I sincerely appreciate your offering a quick fix that's something other than, "zomg learn how 2 multitask, U stupid n00b!" I also had not been aware that there is a "target of target" function. The default AI remains flawed, but this is definitely the most helpful response I've gotten. That it took so long for anyone to come up with a solution that is still pretty obscure is evidence that this needs to be fixed. What about new, young, or very-casual players who have no idea you can even change key bindings? I guess people like that are just SoL.

 

Thanks,

 

Exile

[Calastrophe]

Gotta be honest with you, I have no idea what "focus targets" means. I will say, though, that I sincerely appreciate your offering a quick fix that's something other than, "zomg learn how 2 multitask, U stupid n00b!" I also had not been aware that there is a "target of target" function. The default AI remains flawed, but this is definitely the most helpful response I've gotten. That it took so long for anyone to come up with a solution that is still pretty obscure is evidence that this needs to be fixed. What about new, young, or very-casual players who have no idea you can even change key bindings? I guess people like that are just SoL.

 

Thanks,

 

Exile

 

A "focus" in the context of targetting is basically being able to define a secondary target. So a healer would set the tank to be their focus target and they can cast a "focus target heal" which would hit the tank regardless of what the healer's current target is. Alternatively you bind a key to the focus target to quickly switch back.

 

There is in option in your preferences to enable focus targetting, which then allows you to set and use focus targets. I can't recall exactly where it is and can't check at the moment as I'm at work. I've also seen a very good write-up on how to heal using focus targets in SWTOR, but again the link is at home. If I remember I'll try and post the link when I can.

 

As for new/young/casual players, I expect they'll learn like everyone else - from experience, investigation and asking for help. We were all new once and its not really any different from everything else in life.

 

Edit: Google is my friend, try this - http://mmocover.com/swtor/healing-with-your-focus-target/

Edited February 23, 2012 by Calastrophe

[Iskandarian]

only click the other enemy once. if you spam click, there is a delay in which the game is still processing the command.

 

for a demonstration of this, use any companion to fight a hostile. spam click that hostile. your companion will keep resetting for a time until you stop clicking.

 

same phenomena is observed when you die and elect to be res'd in place. spam click that dispatch probe button, and it will take forever, possibly indefinitely to actually res until you stop clicking.

[PatT]

The focus of focus targeting is a great idea and I'll have to learn up on that.

 

What I usually do wiht Qyzen is this: (playing alone, not with other humans)

 

1st. Pick my CC target (this target should be far enough away to be outside of the radius of Qyzen's AOE taunt, because it will break the CC.

 

2nd. Instead of telling him to attack a different target, I force throw something at the target I want him to attack. That causes all the enemies in the area group to aggro me. That makes them all his targets and he'll fight till they're all dead. But always jumping over to protect me if someone attacks me. Always. Can't say that about any human tank I've every played with. I can use other my other CC's to handle the rest.

 

So then I'll stun something that is my next biggest threat, knock everything back if I get swarmed, which rarely happens, because I pick my location carefully before I start something. I always keep him bubbled, and me if necessary.

 

However, this only works when it's just me and Qyzen. In which case, he's who I'm healing.

 

I don't like using him in groups with other people, becasue it becomes a mix of the predictable with the unpredictable. However, as a healer, I can at least count on him protecting me which is more than I can say for about 3/4 of the human "tank-like-players" I've played with.

 

At least with Qyzen, while he's quirky, he's at least predictable. People, otoh, are rarely predictable and much moodier..

 

I'd rather work with AI chars I can predict. I can set things up and control the scenario. However, it requires methodical, usually slow (by comparison), setup, time to plan, think things through, and most human players want to RUN THOUGH the content.

 

I went through the first flashpoint 4 times before I had time to look at the map and see where things where because all anyone wanted to do is run and fight, run and fight.

 

I routinely solo all but the +4 heroics. The +2's are doable with just my char and Qyzen. And if I need more heals or more cc, I get Theran and HOliday.

 

Strategy anyone? I admit my first 15 years of gaming were in a turn-based strategy game. So I'm not as fast, but I will get across the battlefield, alive, and get my objective. Without too much chaos.

 

And no, I don't do pvp. Not my cup of tea.

[montanabrand]

u must not be attacking the other targets right away with any form of dps. I have a 50 healer sage and use lizard face for all of my leveling. You have 1 lifted and immediately after use your target closest enemy and either send pet or put a slow dot on the mob to draw least aggro....qyzen will attack whatever u attack...u dont need to send him at all...just attack the mob? make sure lizard faces aggro button is selected and he will get aggro in no time from remaining mobs...then u can force armor him etc.

[Gilbara]

TS force lift, then toss a quick attk at something, and qyzen goes to that guy you attked.

 

problem solved?

[Captain_Zone]

I have one I call "The Mako Problem" or FHTH (Forget How To Heal) syndrome. Sometimes, she just stands there staring off into space while my BH gets pounded on by multiple mobs, and once in a boss fight on Voss, she just stood there looking cute while the Boss (a HEALER BOSS) slowly whittled away at my life bar. She didn't fire, or heal, or anything... And before you ask, she was NOT in Follow mode. I know, it was the first thing I checked. Medwatch was on, as were her attacks. As for Qyzen, my Shadow isn't high enough yet to really see if the big Gorn... err Trandoshan does that. -shrugs- Edited February 23, 2012 by Captain_Zone

[ExiledinElysium]

On the whole, you guys have made me finally give up on the internet. Thanks.

[Batmanandahalf]

1. I didn't resort to name calling.

 

2. Not a power-gamer, Just someone with common sense. I'm only level 33 and I've been playing since a few days before the new year.

 

3. Nowhere in my suggestion did I say I had a fancy mouse, or suggest anything that would require a fancy mouse. Scroll wheel? that thing that's in the middle of every mouse now? Bind Qyzen to attack with the "F" key. You don't use it for anything as a Sage. Or, you know, bind it to literally any other key on the keyboard.

 

Or this:

Well technically even healers have a target -> whomever you are healing. Given this, its actually quite easy to set up a quick set of keybindings to redirect your companions attack target. How?

 

Step 1 - enable focus targets in your options

Step 2 - bind your companions attack to a key

Step 3 (optional) - rebind the "target of target" key to something you can quickly press. By default its alt+t, but if you rebind it to a key right next to the keybind in Step 2 then you can really quickly order your companion to attack your healing target's target.

 

A lot of people don't realise that focus target functionality exists in the game

 

That is a lot of work. I don't expect you to follow this persons instructions since it's obvious that you are already opposed to checking/changing your keybinds. I'M too lazy to do it, but I fare pretty well without.

 

Let me once again be perfectly clear. I know how companions are programmed. I know why Qyzen has been acting like a complete idiot. I know how I can work around his stupidity. I still think it's a glaring flaw in the AI. There's a big difference between wanting the game to do everything for me, and expecting my companion to behave with the most basic common sense notion that one shouldn't stare at a dead body when one's allies are being killed two feet away. I only recently realized this problem even existed, because it was only last weekend that my friend and I moved on to a new planet and encountered a few tougher fights. In most fights, I'm doing both offensive and defensive work, so it's not an issue. I'm not positive, but I think he has been attacking enemies that I have targeted with force powers, even while I go back to healing. The problem rears its head when I get into a really tough fight with lots of elites, because I spend all my time popping force shields on everyone and keeping my tank alive.

 

This is why I told you to learn your hotkeys and to check out your keybinds. I can do all that you are doing, while keeping Qyzen in battle, with a regular keyboard and a regular 3 button mouse. You're complaining about something that everyone has to deal with and most are handling just fine.

 

Honestly, I may be just a different sort of gamer than most of you guys who are telling me I should just shut up and learn to multitask.

 

"Casual" gamer, "hardcore' gamer, "pro" gamer, we're all playing the same game and given the same tools to use. I suggested a workaround for something that doesn't work the way YOU want. I suggested a workaround for something that hasn't been mentioned as a bug. I suggested a workaround for something that hasn't been mentioned as being broken or if it'll be "fixed," do you really want the devs mucking up a game mechanic that works? With their track record? I suggested a workaround so that you may enjoy and continue playing this game. I made a suggestion to make your life easier. It was a suggestion, one that you want to throw out the window. My suggestion was ultimately "lrn2buttonz." Your response? "buttonzRhard"

 

The extra effort and focus it would take for me to tell Qyzen which next enemy to attack after one is taken down, while I'm watching everyone's health meter and my cooldowns, is not something I think I should have to worry about. I'm a casual gamer. I play this game because the story is interesting and the gameplay is generally fun and relaxed... I've got enough stress in my life--I shouldn't have to add 'Qyzen staring at the ground like an idiot' to the list. If you can't see the sense in what I'm saying, then there's no point talking to you (or y'all, as it were).

 

I understand completely what you're saying, to the fullest extent in the way it's been said. Having said that, if micromanaging your companion is causing more stress in your LIFE, maybe you should play a different class. The only thing that "stresses" me about this game, it is a game you know, is logging on for the first time that day and anticipating whether or not my items sold on the GTN.

 

Gotta be honest with you, I have no idea what "focus targets" means. I will say, though, that I sincerely appreciate your offering a quick fix that's something other than, "zomg learn how 2 multitask, U stupid n00b!" I also had not been aware that there is a "target of target" function. The default AI remains flawed, but this is definitely the most helpful response I've gotten. That it took so long for anyone to come up with a solution that is still pretty obscure is evidence that this needs to be fixed. What about new, young, or very-casual players who have no idea you can even change key bindings? I guess people like that are just SoL.

 

Thanks,

 

Exile

 

Yes, they are SoL. It's not like keybindings are some sort of cheat code or hidden feature. It's listed plainly in the options. The only fault I see with access to keybindings is that BW went with an unconventional "bottom-tabbed" system instead of a web browser-esque "top-tabbed" system. And you don't even need to change them, you could simply read through them to "learn the controls." My question would be why do that though when you can custom design your own controller?

 

On the whole, you guys have made me finally give up on the internet. Thanks.

 

I'm sorry for sounding rude in my first post. I'm sorry you couldn't see past that and take my genuine advice with a grain of salt. I'm sorry to come at you with a realistic solution to a problem instead of just pandering to you and saying "Yeah! Qyzen sucks!" I'm sorry I gave you a solution to this problem, that I don't have, but could still at least give insight. I'm sorry I know how to play my class without hindering my group because I can't manage my companion.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Paralassa
quote of removed post

[PatT]

On the whole, you guys have made me finally give up on the internet. Thanks.

 

Wow, all I did was offer helpful advice based on what I do and this is your thanks? Really "us guys" (we are not all guys) took time time type answers to try to help you. And you haven't been very nice to us about our efforts.

 

Mabye Qyzen is not the best DPS companion. Perhaps you should learn what Theran can do. He uses Holiday in inventive ways and will help your team a lot more.

 

You're welcome.

[DenitharPurloin]

A lot of what others have said is true. Remember ANY companion will react to something that is attacking YOU (not your party members) unless they are in a healing stance.

 

So, like someone else said, get used to sending the tank in first, then CC (plenty of time to get your CC cast going while he moves in) (oh and remember to turn-off his AoEs ).

 

Each time a party member attacks something before the companion does it will be the same issue, where they now have the aggro and their companion will be the one reacting.

 

Just get the story straight about who exactly is tanking and there should be no problems. If they want to tank, let them. Maybe they die a few times and learn to NOT attack before the tank. It really is MMO 101 after all.

 

Best of luck.

[Veluthurk]

Qyzen has been behaving himself for me until yesterday when I grouped my baby Sage with someone.

 

Solo I've always sent him in first since he hesitates before attacking. This may have gotten me past some of the behavior previously mentioned. When I was grouped the other player always started the attacks. I noticed I had to send Qyzen in manually for over half of the mobs otherwise he would just spectate.

[Batmanandahalf]

Wow, all I did was offer helpful advice based on what I do and this is your thanks? Really "us guys" (we are not all guys) took time time type answers to try to help you. And you haven't been very nice to us about our efforts.

 

Mabye Qyzen is not the best DPS companion. Perhaps you should learn what Theran can do. He uses Holiday in inventive ways and will help your team a lot more.

 

You're welcome.

 

This. The only reason my first post in this thread was worded so callously is because ExiledinElysium shot down every suggestion given to him up to that point.

 

...from a more realistic perspective one would think the companion should be able to tell when using an AoE would be bad. I'm sure it's practically impossible to fully program that sort of consideration, but perhaps it would behoove them to at least prevent the companion from using such an ability when a CCd enemy is within the effect radius. I wouldn't know whether that's an easy program.

 

Telling this person that his request for auto-aoe toggle would be too hard to code in, but "I want my companion to attack things that aren't attacking me" is a great thing to add? That would be another thing that everyone would have to toggle. When will people claim "I want my companion to automatically attack things when I'm grouped, but I don't want to turn on aggressive stance for him every time. My companion should KNOW when I want him to be aggressive or passive." What you want in the game is a system that checks every group member to see if they are currently involved in battle. So that turns into "I was sneaking past a champion on my way to a heroic when my group member started killing things on the other side of the map. My companion attacked the champion out of nowhere and I died."

 

This system would need to do tons of things. It would need to check your distance from your teammate, check if the team mate is currently in battle, check which enemies are currently tagged, through some magic algorithm check which member is a tank based on their point distribution, if no tank is present, defer companion to the next "most tank-like" party member. Basically, you would need a system that, when grouped, would turn your companion into your teammates companion and relinquish control over to them. Either way it'll put more of a strain on their bandwidth or your computer. Qyzen already takes long enough to go into battle when I control him manually. It'll be worse when he's using a system of checks to decide which player to fight for while ignoring the commands sent from every other group member.

 

As far as auto-AOE goes, little more viable. The system would only have to check tagged enemies for a list of CC debuffs. But then it would have to do that anytime a companion was going to use an AOE ability.

 

The way I see it, there's a whole lot of work that would need to be done before what you want could be accomplished. Far more work than making the customer put in a little elbow grease to play a game themselves.