People who ninja for their companions

[Sparckus]

You haven't been reading the threads I've been posting in on the issue, and I'm not really in the mood to explain something that is really complicated to you.

 

Its fairly simple.

 

Do you support rolling need for a companion or not?

 

Black and white, binary, yes or no.

[Vecke]

Please point out where I demonize them ... I said the position can't be defended! I stand by my argument. On the one hand a player needs a drop for himself ... and on the other a player is taking to decorate his or her pet for the purposes of dailies.

 

"How can you possibly claim the first side is trying to hoard loot. It's different perspectives on the value of a companion and demonizing those people is wrong."

 

You're demonizing them by attaching an untrue motivation. You're saying they're trying to "hoard" the loot. That's not true.

 

I'll ask again. You and I are in a group. A piece of gear drops that my PC can use and your companion can use. I say, "Your companion needs that. You should roll need against my PC and let the roll decide."

 

Please explain how that constitutes me trying to hoard the loot.

 

That exact scenario is what every person in this thread that believes in rolling Need for companions is making. That exact scenario is what they prefer. How is that trying to hoard loot? I genuinely don't understand that.

[Coriolan_Martius]

Dude I am not talking about You being generous and saying "go aheadtake it for your pet". This is very uncommon in my experience. And ... do you really give up a columni piece to another for him or her to use for a pet?

 

What I am talking about is the following(very common scenario):

 

...

Player A needs Columni Gear Y (does need)

Player B already has Columni Gear Y(does need) but takes it a for pet.

...

 

Player B does not ask ... does not discuss. He just does.

 

 

Again, why would Player B do this? He already has that columni gear piece and his pet by that point already has good gear. Even if not ... I argue that he can get decent gear for his pet in many ways. It is more than enough for the dailies. What else does he use his pet for?

 

What is the reason? I said it is hoarding. What do you say? Why does he want it? Even if he can use for it his pet ... how can this be justified? It is plain unfair.

[Darkulous]

Is this the place where people rationalize their Ninjaism?

[Coriolan_Martius]

Sorry but I am passionate about this one. The following is it! I support it and the devs are working on it. If players can't be fair to each other the devs should fix it. Doing HM FP is time consuming on my server. Thus every participating player should have a fair chance to get high end gear.

 

 

"Its fairly simple.

 

Do you support rolling need for a companion or not?

 

Black and white, binary, yes or no."

[Revenaught]

They are not important enough to screw over live players. Greens are fine for them 1-50 they don't NEED blue/orange/purple gear that other players can use.

 

Seriously can't wait for the new system to come, too many selfish people.

 

And yet by trying to limit what I can and can't use you are screwing me over for your own selfish reasons.

[Vecke]

Dude I am not talking about You being generous and saying "go aheadtake it for your pet". This is very uncommon in my experience. And ... do you really give up a columni piece to another for him or her to use for a pet?

 

What I am talking about is the following(very common scenario):

 

...

Player A needs Columni Gear Y (does need)

Player B already has Columni Gear Y(does need) but takes it a for pet.

...

 

Player B does not ask ... does not discuss. He just does.

 

 

Again, why would Player B do this? He already has that columni gear piece and his pet by that point already has good gear. Even if not ... I argue that he can get decent gear for his pet in many ways. It is more than enough for the dailies. What else does he use his pet for?

 

What is the reason? I said it is hoarding. What do you say? Why does he want it? Even if he can use for it his pet ... how can this be justified? It is plain unfair.

 

The people debating in this thread would expect you to roll Need for that piece, even if it's just for your companion.

 

Nobody in this thread - not a single solitary person - is saying, "I want to roll Need on companions but I don't want you to do it." Nobody in this entire (almost) 200 page debate is asking for that.

 

Look. I can see your argument is coming from a good place. You're advocating behavior that you think is more generous.

 

The problem is that you're refusing to accept that maybe... just maybe... the guy that rolls need is also coming from a place of generosity. Sure, they roll Need when their companion needs it. But they 100% want you to roll Need for your companion too.

 

That's not hoarding loot. And unless the person in your example expects you to roll Greed on companions, he's not hoarding loot either. He wants YOU to do the same thing when it's for your companion.

 

I'm not saying one or the other is right. I'm saying it's unfair to tell the people in this thread that they are loot hoarders. They are not. They are - quite literally - advocating something that makes their PC level up slower, not faster. Because they see their PC as an equal part of the same team that their companions are on.

 

My only argument here is that people who roll Need for companions are not - by default - greedy or loot hoarders. The fact that they want you to do the same thing proves this.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Vecke

[Sparckus]

And yet by trying to limit what I can and can't use you are screwing me over for your own selfish reasons.

 

Someone that lives and breathes is more important than a bunch of 1s and 0s.

[Vecke]

Someone that lives and breathes is more important than a bunch of 1s and 0s.

 

I'm sorry, but your PC doesn't live and breathe. He's a bunch of 1's and 0's too.

[Revenaught]

Someone that lives and breathes is more important than a bunch of 1s and 0s.

 

My avatar and my avatar's companion are both 1s and 0s.

[terminova]

Its fairly simple.

 

Do you support rolling need for a companion or not?

 

Black and white, binary, yes or no.

 

Go read the threads.

Edited February 26, 2012 by terminova

[GeekNius]

While I do think that the case in the OP is breaking the threshold of d-bag'ery, the people who argue that need for companions in general is wrong are even worse. Greedy and short-sighted.

 

a) You really expect people who will actually USE a piece of equipment to roll against those who would just vendor it? And you think that this would cause less drama than someone rolling against you? Seriously?

Because rarely losing a roll is SOOOOOO much worse than people seeing loot they could use wasted quite often ...

 

b) You really think that people who have their character outfitted in loot equal or better than the drops you're competing for would have any incentive to actually run content with you if you took away their right to collect loot for their companions? You really think that once they're in full Columni they're still going to run PUGs (and we're talking about PUGs here - guild or friends runs will have their loot rules sorted out by themselves, anyway) ... just to gear YOU up? Seriously?

Because people will do that for no gain all the time instead of doing something they actually profit from ...

 

c) You really see that situation in the OP every day? Seriously?

Because most people are d-bags and won't wait/ask if anyone needs an item for their character and will instead insta-press need on everything ...

 

Guys, you're doing it wrong. And you're causing more damage than what you're trying to prevent.

 

 

I've actually only seen it happen ONCE in any group that someone pulled such a stunt as in the OP. Yeah, I lost a roll. 'Would have been nice to have that item ... but seriously, a day later I had something better. No f'ing reason to ***** and cry like a loot-wh0re.

In all the other dozens of cases where people, including me, rolled Need on an item for a companion ... we ASKED before we did that. Or at least waited to see if anyone of appropriate class needed it, in which case they'd gotten it.

 

Yes, you can run into a d-bag at times.

But the way you're arguing, not to mention HOW you're arguing ... you guys only need to look into the mirror to see a loot-wh0ring drama-queen.

 

While I'd prefer to have some "secondary need" roll option for cosmetics and companions ... if you're making this into a binary question I'd rather go with the risk of d-bags than with your "morals" ...

Which, btw, are really only a very thinly veiled attempt at defending your sense of entitlement ... and actually failing hard at that, thanks to you being short-sighted as explained above.

/facepalm

 

P.S.: This post may contain heavy traces of sarcasm and ridicule as style elements. No personal offense is intended to anyone. If you're still taking offense ... then it's probably because you just realized how wrong you were.

[Vecke]

While I do think that the case in the OP is breaking the threshold of d-bag'ery, the people who argue that need for companions in general is wrong are even worse. Greedy and short-sighted.

 

a) You really expect people who will actually USE a piece of equipment to roll against those who would just vendor it? And you think that this would cause less drama than someone rolling against you? Seriously?

Because rarely losing a roll is SOOOOOO much worse than people seeing loot they could use wasted quite often ...

 

b) You really think that people who have their character outfitted in loot equal or better than the drops you're competing for would have any incentive to actually run content with you if you took away their right to collect loot for their companions? You really think that once they're in full Columni they're still going to run PUGs (and we're talking about PUGs here - guild or friends runs will have their loot rules sorted out by themselves, anyway) ... just to gear YOU up? Seriously?

Because people will do that for no gain all the time instead of doing something they actually profit from ...

 

c) You really see that situation in the OP every day? Seriously?

Because most people are d-bags and won't wait/ask if anyone needs an item for their character and will instead insta-press need on everything ...

 

Guys, you're doing it wrong. And you're causing more damage than what you're trying to prevent.

 

 

I've actually only seen it happen ONCE in any group that someone pulled such a stunt as in the OP. Yeah, I lost a roll. 'Would have been nice to have that item ... but seriously, a day later I had something better. No f'ing reason to ***** and cry like a loot-wh0re.

In all the other dozens of cases where people, including me, rolled Need on an item for a companion ... we ASKED before we did that. Or at least waited to see if anyone of appropriate class needed it, in which case they'd gotten it.

 

Yes, you can run into a d-bag at times.

But the way you're arguing, not to mention HOW you're arguing ... you guys only need to look into the mirror to see a loot-wh0ring drama-queen.

 

While I'd prefer to have some "secondary need" roll option for cosmetics and companions ... if you're making this into a binary question I'd rather go with the risk of d-bags than with your "morals" ...

Which, btw, are really only a very thinly veiled attempt at defending your sense of entitlement ... and actually failing hard at that, thanks to you being short-sighted as explained above.

/facepalm

 

P.S.: This post may contain heavy traces of sarcasm and ridicule as style elements. No personal offense is intended to anyone. If you're still taking offense ... then it's probably because you just realized how wrong you were.

 

You're pretty smart for a Jawa.

[jmdatcs]

They are not important enough to screw over live players. Greens are fine for them 1-50 they don't NEED blue/orange/purple gear that other players can use.

 

Seriously can't wait for the new system to come, too many selfish people.

 

^^ This

 

If you can't get through any level appropriate content with your companion geared in close-to-level greens then you need to L2P.

 

Just because you need an all purple companion to get past that one elite at the end of a solo quest doesn't make your companion more important than another player.

 

If you really do "need" high level gear for your companion in a moderately casual leaning game, then might I suggest a nice Sudoku app?

[Vecke]

^^ This

 

If you can't get through any level appropriate content with your companion geared in close-to-level greens then you need to L2P.

 

Just because you need an all purple companion to get past that one elite at the end of a solo quest doesn't make your companion more important than another player.

 

If you really do "need" high level gear for your companion in a moderately casual leaning game, then might I suggest a nice Sudoku app?

 

This point would be better if people stopped saying things like "A companion isn't as important as a real live player."

 

Nobody is arguing that. But the PC is not a "real live player." Their entire point is that the companion is just as much a "real live player" as the PC is. You can agree with that or not, but to suggest they're saying a companion is more important than a player is outside the scope of this debate and something nobody in this thread disagrees with.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Vecke

[terminova]

^^ This

 

If you can't get through any level appropriate content with your companion geared in close-to-level greens then you need to L2P.

 

Just because you need an all purple companion to get past that one elite at the end of a solo quest doesn't make your companion more important than another player.

 

If you really do "need" high level gear for your companion in a moderately casual leaning game, then might I suggest a nice Sudoku app?

 

My companion needs good gear to help me clear heroic 2+ content at level, so we aren't talking about that one elite at the end of a solo quest, we are talking about those two champions standing next to each other with no viable CC for either one, or the champion standing next to two elites, or the boss standing by himself waiting to eat me alive.

[universeman]

Says the person who wants to lock gear down just for themselves...

 

This is the same response you keep posting, yet NOBODY is trying to lock gear "for themselves". Everyone has the same access to loot with the NEED for PC's camp. The only difference is the team has to speak up more often when using NEED, instead of just clicking and thinking everything is peachy.

Edited February 26, 2012 by universeman

[Vecke]

This thread is too merged, IMO, and people in one debate (myself included) end up debating people that aren't even in the same argument.

 

This thread is really multiple debates that are peripherally connected, but really deserve their own threads:

 

1. Is NBG really the fairest loot method?

 

2. Should you roll Need for companions?

 

3. Are people that think rolling Need for companions greedy by default?

 

4. Should all jawas be exterminated from the galaxy?

 

These are all actually very different debates.

 

In number one, many folks just disagree with NBG in general and think it actually removed generosity and replaced it with entitlement. Rolling Need for companions is really just something they use as evidence on the confusing nature of NBG because it requires unwritten community standards.

 

The second is really the one most appropriate to this thread. That debate is people that simply think companions are equal to player characters in their gameplay and deserve a chance at the rolls. They aren't fundamentally opposed to NBG; they just think companions change the paradigm.

 

Number three is really what I keep falling back on. This debate is really about making generalizations about people based on their opinion of the companions.

 

Number four, though, is something I think we all agree on.

 

The problem with this thread is that people who are arguing with someone over number three will cross points with someone arguing number one, etc. I really wish this was three separate threads because at this point, the only one worth debating for me is number three. The others are just entrenched opinions that aren't going to change.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Vecke

[terminova]

This thread is too merged, IMO, and people in one debate (myself included) end up debating people that aren't even in the same argument.

 

This thread is really multiple debates that are peripherally connected, but really deserve their own threads:

 

1. Is NBG really the fairest loot method?

 

2. Should you roll Need for companions?

 

3. Are people that think rolling Need for companions greedy by default?

 

4. Should all jawas be exterminated from the galaxy?

 

These are all actually very different debates.

 

In number one, many folks just disagree with NBG in general and think it actually removed generosity and replaced it with entitlement. Rolling Need for companions is really just something they use as evidence on the confusing nature of NBG because it requires unwritten community standards.

 

The second is really the one most appropriate to this thread. That debate is people that simply think companions are equal to player characters in their gameplay and deserve a chance at the rolls. They aren't fundamentally opposed to NBG; they just think companions change the paradigm.

 

Number three is really what I keep falling back on. This debate is really about making generalizations about people based on their opinion of the companions.

 

Number four, though, is something I think we all agree on.

 

The problem with this thread is that people who are arguing with someone over number three will cross points with someone arguing number one, etc. I really wish this was three separate threads because at this point, the only one worth debating for me is number three. The others are just entrenched opinions that aren't going to change.

 

And when the thread hits the limit, the mods will simply roll it over into a new one without considering it should be left to rot because there is nothing new to say, add or talk about.

Edited February 26, 2012 by terminova

[Vecke]

And when the thread hits the limit, the mods will simply roll it over into a new one without considering it should be left to rot because there is nothing new to say, add or talk about.

 

You are correct.

[universeman]

The problem is that you're refusing to accept that maybe... just maybe... the guy that rolls need is also coming from a place of generosity. Sure, they roll Need when their companion needs it. But they 100% want you to roll Need for your companion too.

 

Some classes don't have the same access to as many types of loot.

[terminova]

Some classes don't have the same access to as many types of loot.

 

Which doesn't matter.

[Vecke]

Some classes don't have the same access to as many types of loot.

 

I'm not sure what that has to do with the comment you quoted. If someone wants you to roll need for your companion, even though their own PC could use it, how does what you say mean they're being greedy?

 

And feel free to clarify if I'm making an incorrect assumption here. I just don't see how your comment means the person I'm describing is not being generous. That's my only point. That maybe the person that supports rolling Need does so from a place of generosity, not selfishness. I don't see how your post here contradicts that.

[universeman]

And yet by trying to limit what I can and can't use you are screwing me over for your own selfish reasons.

 

Everyone is limited in the same exact manner. That's the only way to keep distribution as equal as possible and allow the community to police themselves. Everyone has the "same" "exact" "access" to *all* loot, just speak up if you're NEEDing on something that isn't directly related to your PC.

[universeman]

Yes, you can run into a d-bag at times.

But the way you're arguing, not to mention HOW you're arguing ... you guys only need to look into the mirror to see a loot-wh0ring drama-queen.

 

I don't think you're seeing our points of view properly. We're just trying to keep the system fair and respectful to all while putting some simple rules in place that help the community police itself. There are more people out there IMO that do not NEED for their companion than do, so all we're saying is if you want to click NEED for your companion, just speak up.