Kaskava Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) once again, pure projection. from what i gather of your posts, the person in this thread abusing the system the most is you. you seriously consider vendoring a legitimate reason for "need" over someone who can equip an item and make their character better? everything else you say after having said that is just gibberish. I think you're misunderstanding where I'm coming from. I don't need on anything that's not an upgrade for my character, as in the one that is in the run. If I win a greed roll, yeah I'll sell it. Edited February 22, 2012 by Kaskava Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I think you're misunderstanding where I'm coming from. I don't need on anything that's not an upgrade for my character, as in the one that is in the run. If I win a greed roll, yeah I'll sell it. "But they should lose out on that money so you can better something that helps YOU and just YOU. Sorry, don't buy that. I could put that few thousand credits to good use help the group." there's what you said word for word. you saying you... misspoke? lolz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juromaro Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 It's pretty obvious that you're really just a selfish person, and there's no point even trying to argue with you. Agree with it, or don't. I'm still going to do what I see fit to people who need for something that wasn't even in the run. So who is selfish? The person trying to better their character, or the person who wants that item only for credits that come in the mail? I'm far from selfish, I'm not the one who will deny someone something simply because it doesn't agree with my opinions. Pot calling the Kettle black maybe? And I know your still going to kick people and label them as a Ninja, something you've stated many times over the last few pages. and it's not rolling for something that wasn't even in the run, I was in the run, so I roll on the item, the item will be used by me, because my companion is part of my character, so in all sense I am rolling for an item I can use for my character. Who are you to say otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaskava Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) "But they should lose out on that money so you can better something that helps YOU and just YOU. Sorry, don't buy that. I could put that few thousand credits to good use help the group." there's what you said word for word. you saying you... misspoke? lolz. In reference to people that will just flat out need for a companion, which is a word that never once came up. I can see where you might get the idea, though. As I've said multiple times, if you want something for a companion, just say so, that way no one will be surprised or upset when you roll need, and everyone else rolls greed. Edited February 22, 2012 by Kaskava Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) In reference to people that will just flat out need for a companion. As I've said multiple times, if you want something for a companion, just say so, that way no one will be surprised or upset when you roll need, and everyone else rolls greed. ok. fair enough. my personal opinion is that my companion is more important than your credits. and when i see that everyone else has rolled greed for an item that i can use on a companion, i will then roll need. i'm not asking anybody if i can have it if they all rolled greed. Edited February 22, 2012 by Bazouk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaskava Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 ok. fair enough. my personal opinion is that my companion is more important than your credits. and when i see that everyone else has rolled greed for an item that i can use on a companion, i will then roll need. i'm not asking anybody if i can have it if they all rolled greed. I'm still not sure why you can't just give people a head's up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 ok. fair enough. my personal opinion is that my companion is more important than your credits. and when i see that everyone else has rolled greed for an item that i can use on a companion, i will then roll need. i'm not asking anybody if i can have it if they all rolled greed. While I agree that a companion should take priority over pure credits, don't you think it would be much better to at least let the group know why you did it, just to prevent the misunderstanding that you were talking about earlier? That's not a gotcha question there, it's a genuine suggestion. Isn't a refusal to just let them know kind of intentionally creating potential strife in the group that could very easily be prevented by one quick FYI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I'm still not sure why you can't just give people a head's up. oh, in the event everyone else rolled greed, i'll say, "i'm taking this for my companion." but i'm not asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaskava Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 oh, in the event everyone else rolled greed, i'll say, "i'm taking this for my companion." but i'm not asking. And I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that people at least make mention of it. It's when they don't even have the common courtesy to tell you at all that things go south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juromaro Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 While I agree that a companion should take priority over pure credits, don't you think it would be much better to at least let the group know why you did it, just to prevent the misunderstanding that you were talking about earlier? That's not a gotcha question there, it's a genuine suggestion. Isn't a refusal to just let them know kind of intentionally creating potential strife in the group that could very easily be prevented by one quick FYI? Because this game has companions that require gear, so standard loot rules do not apply in this game. If companions didn't need gear at all then the issue wouldn't be up for debate. Dev tracker says they plan on putting in a Need for companion option so problem is solved in some sorts. But me not stating beforehand that I'm rolling for companions is the same as not stating before the flashpoint what the group expects loot rules to be. People as a whole only roll greed to vendor or sell on AH, not to use, if they needed the item then they would roll on it. I'm not going to assume that standard loot rules apply if someone isn't going to assume that I'm rolling need for my companion as well as my character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACLucius Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 ok. fair enough. my personal opinion is that my companion is more important than your credits. and when i see that everyone else has rolled greed for an item that i can use on a companion, i will then roll need. i'm not asking anybody if i can have it if they all rolled greed. Perhaps because they figured they would roll greed, even though their companion could really use it, but they wanted everyone to have a fair chance at something that would most likely just be turned into credits? Obviously, it is all the fault of everyone involved because no one is making their intentions or rules for loot known. However, I'm pretty sure most people can agree that those who will need on something their character (not companion) cannot use are in the minority. If you want to need on something for your companion when everyone else hits greed, it's fine by me. The only thing I want is just for someone to ask first. It's kind of like the last slice of pizza in the box. You don't just take it, you ask as a courtesy. Chances are even if someone else does want it, they won't say no because you asked. Most people that I have come across will not mind if you do need on something for your companion, they just want that courtesy of asking first. Personally, as long as the person doesn't need for their companion when someone else needs for their character, I don't see where there is a real problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Because this game has companions that require gear, so standard loot rules do not apply in this game. If companions didn't need gear at all then the issue wouldn't be up for debate. Dev tracker says they plan on putting in a Need for companion option so problem is solved in some sorts. But me not stating beforehand that I'm rolling for companions is the same as not stating before the flashpoint what the group expects loot rules to be. People as a whole only roll greed to vendor or sell on AH, not to use, if they needed the item then they would roll on it. I'm not going to assume that standard loot rules apply if someone isn't going to assume that I'm rolling need for my companion as well as my character. So you're perfectly fine with the group thinking you waited until they all rolled greed, then you rolled need just so you could be the one to sell it? I understand that's not the actual reason you rolled need, but there's absolutely no way for the group to know that unless you take a moment to give a quick FYI as to your reason, just out of courtesy. I'm not sure why that's something you'd refuse to do? It seems to just promote misunderstandings and potential strife in the group that could be 100% prevented with a 10 sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juromaro Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 And I don't think it's unreasonable to ask that people at least make mention of it. It's when they don't even have the common courtesy to tell you at all that things go south. But in some pugs(I've dealt with this before), when a person states they are rolling for companion people tend to rage and argue, because most still only see Companions as pets like WoW, but fail to realize the vast majority of people who play this game use companions nearly 100% of their time. Not always the case but happens more than someone being kicked for rolling need on companion item. My point is if Companions didn't require gear then this wouldn't be an issue, but since they do and the vast majority uses them then loot rules are different in this game than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juromaro Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 So you're perfectly fine with the group thinking you waited until they all rolled greed, then you rolled need just so you could be the one to sell it? I understand that's not the actual reason you rolled need, but there's absolutely no way for the group to know that unless you take a moment to give a quick FYI as to your reason, just out of courtesy. I'm not sure why that's something you'd refuse to do? It seems to just promote misunderstandings and potential strife in the group that could be 100% prevented with a 10 sentence. And what if everyone assumes you roll need just to sell it? I'm perfectly fine with people thinking what they want to think, because me personally I roll need on things I need, otherwise it's greed. I don't play the game to make others feel better, I play the game to have fun and gearing companions is part of the game so it is something I do. And it's not something I refuse to do, I run one flashpoint a day, and it's with guild mates, and they are all aware of my loot methods, however before I joined a guild when I pugged I always stated before the run started that I roll for companion as well. People who have an issue with that leave and can be replaced, so it's not my concern if they agree or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaskava Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 But in some pugs(I've dealt with this before), when a person states they are rolling for companion people tend to rage and argue, because most still only see Companions as pets like WoW, but fail to realize the vast majority of people who play this game use companions nearly 100% of their time. Not always the case but happens more than someone being kicked for rolling need on companion item. My point is if Companions didn't require gear then this wouldn't be an issue, but since they do and the vast majority uses them then loot rules are different in this game than others. If you make your intentions known, and they still have a problem, then that's on them. Assuming, of course, that you aren't taking something for Talos that would be an upgrade for that Agent over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juromaro Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 If you make your intentions known, and they still have a problem, then that's on them. Assuming, of course, that you aren't taking something for Talos that would be an upgrade for that Agent over there. If it's something Talos needs and the Agent rolls greed the agent doesn't need it so I roll, if the Agent rolls need then I don't roll because I assume the Agent needs it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 So just to be clear, we all agree that we personally think the best priority is Player character > companion > credits. And we all agree that it's just better for the group to give a polite heads up that you're rolling need for your companion. Is that a correct assessment of the last page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaskava Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 If it's something Talos needs and the Agent rolls greed the agent doesn't need it so I roll, if the Agent rolls need then I don't roll because I assume the Agent needs it. There ya go, we're starting to come to a consensus. I agree that Character>Companion>Credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Perhaps because they figured they would roll greed, even though their companion could really use it, but they wanted everyone to have a fair chance at something that would most likely just be turned into credits? Obviously, it is all the fault of everyone involved because no one is making their intentions or rules for loot known. However, I'm pretty sure most people can agree that those who will need on something their character (not companion) cannot use are in the minority. If you want to need on something for your companion when everyone else hits greed, it's fine by me. The only thing I want is just for someone to ask first. It's kind of like the last slice of pizza in the box. You don't just take it, you ask as a courtesy. Chances are even if someone else does want it, they won't say no because you asked. Most people that I have come across will not mind if you do need on something for your companion, they just want that courtesy of asking first. Personally, as long as the person doesn't need for their companion when someone else needs for their character, I don't see where there is a real problem. your view of your companions does not match my view of mine, nor does the view of the hypothetical players who rolled greed on an item they should have rolled need on if it was something they wanted. look, the truth is, this companion thing is a small part of a bigger picture. it is extremely easy to acquire post 50 gear for a companion without running a single flashpoint. the only time the problem becomes a really serious problem is when people are running HM's and there is t2 loot involved, assuming you finish the run. if you enter into a HM dungeon without discussing loot rules for companions, whatever happens is all on you. making assumptions about how people are going to act and then freaking out when they don't act that way is a bit... well crazy. this game isn't wow. companions play an extremely prominent role in everything but ops. i've done HM's with 2 people and 2 companions and that wouldn't have been possible if people didn't take care of their companions. it's a bit petty to expect people to submissively beg for loot they want after they just watched everyone else roll greed on it, but i digress. i can't change how people are any more than they can change how i am. Edited February 22, 2012 by Bazouk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazouk Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) and yes, i'm pretty sure we've all been at that consensus since the thread started. there are just some people who think the devs should play a role in preventing unwanted deviations from this, and there are some people who expect everyone who plays the game to automatically know the unwritten rules of looting and abide by them without question, even though those unwritten rules vary from game to game, server to server, and guild to guild. Edited February 22, 2012 by Bazouk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 and yes, i'm pretty sure we've all been at that consensus since the thread started. there are just some people who think the devs should play a role in preventing unwanted deviations from this, and there are some people who expect everyone who plays the game to automatically know the unwritten rules of looting and abide by them without question, even though those unwritten rules vary from game to game, server to server, and guild to guild. If I gave the impression that I believe that, it was poor presentation on my part. Although I do think this is a well established etiquette to anybody that pugs regularly, I by no means think everybody should automatically understand them and abide by them without establishing that at the formation of the group. But just like you think people that intentionally ninja loot is far more rare than is suggested in this thread, I think people that believe what you're describing (really believe it and practice in game) is equally as rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 That said, I think it's kind of funny that we've been bickering like spiced up Jawas when all four of us basically agree on the core issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaskava Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 That said, I think it's kind of funny that we've been bickering like spiced up Jawas when all four of us basically agree on the core issue. Hm. Utini. *puff puff* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vecke Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Hm. Utini. *puff puff* Of course, this is just a temporary cease-fire. Once the mornin' shift logs on, they'll start quoting our mid-argument statements and fire up a new battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaskava Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Of course, this is just a temporary cease-fire. Once the mornin' shift logs on, they'll start quoting our mid-argument statements and fire up a new battle. Yessssss. Their passions, their hate, will fuel them. They will give in to the Dark Side and, with each post, make themselves more my servants. /palpatinelaugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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