People who ninja for their companions

[DizzyStrife]

If the gear in question was only useful in a group setting with a full group of other players it might hold water. Since the gear wether it be on me or them or my companion still helps contribute to SOLO play after it is aquired that argument regardless of how well it is worded ( I understand your just trying to clarify it) is a leaky as a sieve and holds no validity for me at all.

 

Simply put the gear they loot while in the group helps them do the daily missions easier. The gear I loot in the group and put on my primary used companion will help me do my daily missions easier. The fact that we were in a group when the item was rolled on does not mean it's only use is in a group situation.

 

I made the keyword in your statement very clear. There is no leak or sieve. While this game does have solo aspects, it is not primarily a solo game. Hence WHY I tried too clarify WHY the majority of people will see anyone taking loot for their companion for their solo play as greedy and selfish and only thinking about themselves because solo play is the ONLY time gear on your companion matters in the scenarios I stated. Yes gear on a player character helps with their solo play, but it ALSO helps with group play which is the main focus of an MMO. I also stated that I was not agreeing with this perspective. I was just stating it in a more clear and concise manner than most of the others had that I read.

 

I honestly don't know why I posted in the first place. NO matte how clear it is stated, people seem too not get it or take it out of context, or try to change the scenarios that I specifically mentioned. It's like trying to teach my 6 year old daughter economics.

[Vecke]

NO it is not untrue. IF you wanna talk about heroics or low level FP's or FP's that you out level, sure there you would be right, But are you honestly going too tell me that you are going to run an at level FP with a companion over a player character? And even then, an under geared player character is better than a geared companion unless you know some people that can actually micromanage themselves AND their companion better than another player character. I don't see that happening very often. Then we get into PvP and OPs where companions are not an option at all.

 

Not even sure why you qouted what I said in the first place since I never said anything about less than 4 people groups. I said FPs, OPs and PvP. FPs, I don't know anyone that would rather take a companion over another player character except in low level FPs and ones you way out level, OPs and PvP, companions aren't even an option. SO yeah.

 

Me, my wife, and my best friend play slowly. It's how we like the game. We alt constantly, and we do - in fact - duo and trio FPs and heroics constantly. We don't do end-game content, we play through the other 95% of the game. And for us, how well a companion does determines the success or failure of the group.

 

I suspect we'll still be playing these characters long after many of the people that have made it to 50 have moved on to other games. I played EQ for 7 years, and EQ2 for 7 years, and many other MMOs in between. But we generally stick to games we like.

 

But because you play end-game content, that means you're more entitled to the gear than I am? It's just as important to my gameplay as it is to yours. Why are you suggesting that you should be given priority over me?

Edited February 24, 2012 by Vecke

[Galbatorrix]

That's my era too.. And you are correct in every word.

 

You needed something, you formed group and went to Wall of Slaughter, and played round robin. If something zone wide dropped you rolled and sold or rolled and equipped.

 

Another part that's been lost here too is the idea that people just expect to be given the loot. In Everquest if you won something, you more often that not sold it to group member for half-nothing, but you both got something.

 

This NBG thing means one players gets the loot handed to them, while the others sing come by yah.

 

 

 

Fighting RNG is fighting RNG. Your way would have players fighting drop rate RNG plus RNG on the need roll too. People have less of a chance to actually win something your way than mine. My way, if cunning drops, it goes to the IA/Smuggler. Your way, if cunning, aim, ST and WP all drop, that lucky IA in the group could potentially win it all leaving the other 3 players lootless. But hey, they all got a roll, amirite?

[Setanian]

Yep, YOU. Not your companion. I'm pretty sure no one has ever stated you shouldn't need roll for PC.

 

You're again forgetting the one real issue.

 

I roll. If I win, I decide what to do with what I win.

 

You seem to think, you also get to decide. You don't.

[Revenaught]

Yep, YOU. Not your companion. I'm pretty sure no one has ever stated you shouldn't need roll for PC.

 

Yes me. Whether or not my companion that I can equip my gear that is bound to me was out while I was with the group is irrelevant. I participated I have a right to roll on loot that I may put to use. Just as much as they have a right to roll on that loot that they may put to use.

[Setanian]

Fighting RNG is fighting RNG. Your way would have players fighting drop rate RNG plus RNG on the need roll too. People have less of a chance to actually win something your way than mine. My way, if cunning drops, it goes to the IA/Smuggler. Your way, if cunning, aim, ST and WP all drop, that lucky IA in the group could potentially win it all leaving the other 3 players lootless. But hey, they all got a roll, amirite?

 

And if I win, they have the option to buy it from me, like I also have the option to buy it from you.

 

Or are you against buying gear too, even at discount rates, and you just it handed to you?

[terminova]

The fact is, you NEED other players to run FPs. NEED. Unless you're out leveling it by a lot, you absolutely NEED them. With that being the case, show some common courtesy if you're planning to need roll for a lesser reason. It goes PC > Companion > Mods > Appearance. I don't care about your personal opinions on what's greater than/lesser than in that list. Those are the things that help you in the game the most from greatest to lowest. So, if you plan on need rolling for 2, 3 or 4 over someone needing for 1, ask first. It shows that you appreciate that the other 3 people are being nice enough to play with you for an hour in order to clear some content that you were interested in. If you don't care to show these people this courtesy, then you really shouldn't be grouping in the first place.

 

Fact is, you are no more entitled to the item than anyone else is. If someone wants to roll on the item because they like how it looks, then they have that right. If someone wants to roll on something because it's a major upgrade for their character or companion, then they have that right. You have the right to get upset over not being granted an exclusive right to roll need on the item all you want, but that won't change that you are not the only person who should be allowed to roll need on the item when the only two choices for receiving that type of loot is Need and Greed.

[Galbatorrix]

You're again forgetting the one real issue.

 

I roll. If I win, I decide what to do with what I win.

 

You seem to think, you also get to decide. You don't.

 

 

You roll, you win, I blast you in gen/guild chat and hopefully get you on a bunch of ignore lists. Remember, you don't get to decide how I express myself in the game.

[Setanian]

You roll, you win, I blast you in gen/guild chat and hopefully get you on a bunch of ignore lists. Remember, you don't get to decide how I express myself in the game.

 

Ah, and you call me selfish??

 

So, let me get this straight.. I roll need on an item, you roll need on an item and if you lose, you'll throw your toys out of the pram ?

 

Please answer this with a simple yes or no.

[Galbatorrix]

Fact is, you are no more entitled to the item than anyone else is. If someone wants to roll on the item because they like how it looks, then they have that right. If someone wants to roll on something because it's a major upgrade for their character or companion, then they have that right. You have the right to get upset over not being granted an exclusive right to roll need on the item all you want, but that won't change that you are not the only person who should be allowed to roll need on the item when the only two choices for receiving that type of loot is Need and Greed.

 

 

 

Sure it does. Bioware's loot change suggestion even states that an IA is entitled to cunning over a sith warrior's companion Vette. So, all you're doing is being a loot hog and exploiting a broken system that Bioware themselves already stated they would change in the future. They agree with me. So, I'm right, you're wrong.

[Revenaught]

I made the keyword in your statement very clear. There is no leak or sieve. While this game does have solo aspects, it is not primarily a solo game. Hence WHY I tried too clarify WHY the majority of people will see anyone taking loot for their companion for their solo play as greedy and selfish and only thinking about themselves because solo play is the ONLY time gear on your companion matters in the scenarios I stated. Yes gear on a player character helps with their solo play, but it ALSO helps with group play which is the main focus of an MMO. I also stated that I was not agreeing with this perspective. I was just stating it in a more clear and concise manner than most of the others had that I read.

 

I honestly don't know why I posted in the first place. NO matte how clear it is stated, people seem too not get it or take it out of context, or try to change the scenarios that I specifically mentioned. It's like trying to teach my 6 year old daughter economics.

 

First and foremost did I not acknowlege in my post that I understood that you were just clarifing the premise? I was not attacking you just disagreeing with the premise.

 

Secondly I do disagree with your claim that this game is not primarily a solo game. I might agree if you said its endgame was not primarily solo but the game as a whole? I believe most players spend far more time solo than in actual group content before end game and possible even then.

 

Thirdly the premise that I can not roll for an item that drops because my intended use for it is primarily during my solo play is simply not valid if they are useing that same gear during their solo play as well. The fact that it is also in use on them in a full group is besides the point.

[terminova]

I made the keyword in your statement very clear. There is no leak or sieve. While this game does have solo aspects, it is not primarily a solo game. Hence WHY I tried too clarify WHY the majority of people will see anyone taking loot for their companion for their solo play as greedy and selfish and only thinking about themselves because solo play is the ONLY time gear on your companion matters in the scenarios I stated. Yes gear on a player character helps with their solo play, but it ALSO helps with group play which is the main focus of an MMO. I also stated that I was not agreeing with this perspective. I was just stating it in a more clear and concise manner than most of the others had that I read.

 

They did a better job of explaining their position, honestly.

 

I honestly don't know why I posted in the first place. NO matte how clear it is stated, people seem too not get it or take it out of context, or try to change the scenarios that I specifically mentioned.

 

You posted because you wanted to argue with people while standing on a soap-box demanding they accept your word as gospel truth.

 

Welcome to the forums, enjoy your stay.

[Galbatorrix]

Ah, and you call me selfish??

 

So, let me get this straight.. I roll need on an item, you roll need on an item and if you lose, you'll throw your toys out of the pram ?

 

Please answer this with a simple yes or no.

 

 

More people play like me than you. I think they all deserve to be warned so they don't fall victim as well.

[Setanian]

Sure it does. Bioware's loot change suggestion even states that an IA is entitled to cunning over a sith warrior's companion Vette. So, all you're doing is being a loot hog and exploiting a broken system that Bioware themselves already stated they would change in the future. They agree with me. So, I'm right, you're wrong.

 

They stated no such thing. You're a great chap for the imaginary

[DizzyStrife]

Me, my wife, and my best friend play slowly. It's how we like the game. We alt constantly, and we do - in fact - duo and trio FPs and heroics constantly. We don't do end-game content, we play through the other 95% of the game. And for us, how well a companion does determines the success or failure of the group.

 

I suspect we'll still be playing these characters long after many of the people that have made it to 50 have moved on to other games. I played EQ for 7 years, and EQ2 for 7 years, and many other MMOs in between. But we generally stick to games we like.

 

But because you play end-game content, that means you're more entitled to the gear than I am? It's just as important to my gameplay as it is to yours. Why are you suggesting that you should be given priority over me?

 

And that is fine for you. I'm glad you guys do that. The point you seem to not be getting in my posts is that I am NOT talking about people like you in your situation. I don't even see how this conversation pertains to you and your group dynamic if you don't group with other people. IF you 3 can complete all the content you want with you 3 and a companion, then how does this even pertain to you in the first place? I really don't know how too make it any more clear too you.

[iheartnyc]

You guys are plain wrong.

 

Bioware is going to change it so only classes that directly need an item can roll need on it.

 

Everyone else is an anti-social loser, seriously, I hate you. J/k. But seriously, I hate you.

[Vecke]

Fighting RNG is fighting RNG. Your way would have players fighting drop rate RNG plus RNG on the need roll too. People have less of a chance to actually win something your way than mine. My way, if cunning drops, it goes to the IA/Smuggler. Your way, if cunning, aim, ST and WP all drop, that lucky IA in the group could potentially win it all leaving the other 3 players lootless. But hey, they all got a roll, amirite?

 

I could be wrong here, but it sounds to me that you just want to remove the element of chance from rolls. Would you prefer that every kill just dropped something for every person in the kill, so everybody wins every time?

 

I'm not judging if that's your position. It's fine if it is. I'm just asking for clarification. It's the idea of a roll that you're against?

[Setanian]

More people play like me than you. I think they all deserve to be warned so they don't fall victim as well.

 

So you agree, Yes, if you lose a need roll to another need roll, you'll throw your toys out of the pram.

[DizzyStrife]

Your argument is flawed in that you you consider the companion as secondary to your main player character. That's fine for you. How-ever, I and others feel that the companion is a direct extension of my player character.

 

Neither one is right nor wrong. And you simply cannot tell me different, just because it suits you.

 

 

In saying that, if you read the entire thread and the previous 6 version, you'll see no-one is asking for an unfair system.

 

You roll, you win or you lose. It's as simple as that. Anything else is selfish.

 

And if you re-read my original post, you will see I am not asking for the system too change or that the system is unfair or should be unfair or that it's any more complicated than what you said at the end of your post. I SAID I was clarifying WHY most people think you are being greedy and selfish since no one seemed to be getting the point. NOT that it was my belief. It's like giving the definition of a word when someone doesn't know what the definition is. More clear for you now?

[terminova]

Sure it does. Bioware's loot change suggestion even states that an IA is entitled to cunning over a sith warrior's companion Vette. So, all you're doing is being a loot hog and exploiting a broken system that Bioware themselves already stated they would change in the future. They agree with me. So, I'm right, you're wrong.

 

I'm going to explain this with small words so you understand (my bad, big word).

 

 

Bioware is working on a new loot system.

 

 

Bioware hasn't implemented any changes.

 

 

Bioware has stated the current system is still up to the players meaning they are not taking sides.

 

 

Bioware currently does not agree with you with regards to current system.

 

 

 

Thus you are not automatically right.

 

 

Therefore you do not get a cookie.

[Setanian]

And if you re-read my original post, you will see I am not asking for the system too change or that the system is unfair or should be unfair or that it's any more complicated than what you said at the end of your post. I SAID I was clarifying WHY most people think you are being greedy and selfish since no one seemed to be getting the point. NOT that it was my belief. It's like giving the definition of a word when someone doesn't know what the definition is. More clear for you now?

 

If you're simply explaining why other people think I'm greedy that's fine. I know.

 

They think I'm greedy because I will not allow them to force me to hand over loot they wrongly think they are entitled to.

 

We've just hd one other poster say he'll throw his toys out of the pram if he loses need vs need.

 

I mean really...

[Vecke]

And that is fine for you. I'm glad you guys do that. The point you seem to not be getting in my posts is that I am NOT talking about people like you in your situation. I don't even see how this conversation pertains to you and your group dynamic if you don't group with other people. IF you 3 can complete all the content you want with you 3 and a companion, then how does this even pertain to you in the first place? I really don't know how too make it any more clear too you.

 

I've said in many previous posts that this is the predominant way we play. And when it's just us two or three, we roll need for companions. However, we do occasionally pug. And when we pug, we roll greed for companions, just because we don't want to risk any drama.

 

I don't, however, agree that this is the most fair method. I don't agree that it's universally true that - just because your gameplay style doesn't require companions but mine does, that you should have priority over me if we're both in the same pug. I abide by that rule, don't get me wrong, and I accept it.

 

But I don't understand how you think I don't have a right to that loot and I don't understand how I'm being selfish for asking that we just get an even roll for it. You're against a fair roll for it. You think you are entitled to the loot, even though it'll help me and my grouping as much as yours.

 

And I especially don't understand why you're suggesting I don't have a right to give my opinion about it. I've said in at least a dozen posts that I pug occasionally, but mostly play with three specific people. Why does that mean I can't speak up with my opinion?

[Galbatorrix]

They stated no such thing. You're a great chap for the imaginary

 

 

Let's analyze, shall we?

 

 

 

 

"We will probably limit the 'need' button to only people who match the primary class the gear is meant for"

 

So, they made gear with a primary class in mind. Companions don't have primary classes. Interesting.

 

 

"and add a new button in between need and greed for players to choose if they intend the gear for these purposes - this will allow CC users to roll against each other without competing with the guy who wants to sell the gear for credits."

 

So, he's going to add a new button so people who want companion gear can't win it over PCs, but they will get a priority over greed.

 

So, the lead systems designer also thinks PC > Companions as well? Again, interesting.

 

 

It's weird. If they thought your companion was an extension of your character, why would the change prioritize need rolls so that you couldn't win companion loot over someone else's PC anymore? Yep... interesting.

[Revenaught]

Let's analyze, shall we?

 

 

 

 

"We will probably limit the 'need' button to only people who match the primary class the gear is meant for"

 

So, they made gear with a primary class in mind. Companions don't have primary classes. Interesting.

 

 

"and add a new button in between need and greed for players to choose if they intend the gear for these purposes - this will allow CC users to roll against each other without competing with the guy who wants to sell the gear for credits."

 

So, he's going to add a new button so people who want companion gear can't win it over PCs, but they will get a priority over greed.

 

So, the lead systems designer also thinks PC > Companions as well? Again, interesting.

 

 

It's weird. If they thought your companion was an extension of your character, why would the change prioritize need rolls so that you couldn't win companion loot over someone else's PC anymore? Yep... interesting.

 

You forgot a couple of points, oddly enough, in your analysis. The ones dealing with "probably" and "I can't tell you when"

 

Trying to state it as fact when the language in it uses probably is just illogical.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Revenaught

[Setanian]

Let's analyze, shall we?

 

 

 

 

"We will probably limit the 'need' button to only people who match the primary class the gear is meant for"

 

So, they made gear with a primary class in mind. Companions don't have primary classes. Interesting.

 

 

"and add a new button in between need and greed for players to choose if they intend the gear for these purposes - this will allow CC users to roll against each other without competing with the guy who wants to sell the gear for credits."

 

So, he's going to add a new button so people who want companion gear can't win it over PCs, but they will get a priority over greed.

 

So, the lead systems designer also thinks PC > Companions as well? Again, interesting.

 

 

It's weird. If they thought your companion was an extension of your character, why would the change prioritize need rolls so that you couldn't win companion loot over someone else's PC anymore? Yep... interesting.

 

I ask you a simple straightforward question which required nothing more than a simple Yes or No.

 

You decided not to answer. Interesting...

 

Here's why;

 

If you answered Yes; You prove yourself to be selfish.

If you answered No; You proved yourself to be agreeing with everything I said.